Chapter 37-3: Balance of Power

[Red Shirt]

You are right about Season 3, but i just wanted to draw attention to a Victor Ring reference in Seaon 2. First glance is just what it seems a wedding ring, but when leveraged with his hush hush on a family member fratricide it is worthy of a closer look.

Was that when MPK went to the Colony the first time around and Kelly drove Victor crazy outside the hospital? Might need another re-listen...

[Grognaurd]

Was that when MPK went to the Colony the first time around and Kelly drove Victor crazy outside the hospital? Might need another re-listen...

Yea, when she is peppering him with questions

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Hm, I listened to the episode just recently - and I have some issues with it. The acting does not bother me, it is indeed excellent as usual. The dialogue is great. But in my opinion, CJ rise to power seems a bit forced. What we learnt in the second part of the first episode of season 4 is that her condition was very life-threatening, there was a high tension concerning her surgery. And now, well, wham, bam, there is this consensus among the colonists to elect her to be the leader of the colony. A couple of days ago, she was dependent on intensive medical care and now she is Mrs Jack of all trades, commanding and organizing the colony. It is hard to believe.

I hope that the colonists are happy with her rule which reminds me of this:

[trubkir]

Well I'm gonna go in a different direction with my theory. I haven't had time to nail it down but I am thinking the time line of the story is at about a week before Christmas. There is no way that Michael can let either Saul, and/or Victor go to the other tower. Michael will use the Christmas Spirit angle, plus the it's just plain dumb to send two able bodied defenders away angle, to change CJ's mind. I think Michael has the political chops to sway CJ. Sergeants in my opinion have to be somewhat political by nature. If CJ can't be persuaded she will have second thoughts because Saul and Victor will have nothing but time on their hands to scour all her carefully saved information at Dunbar Towers. CJ can't keep control of Michael if she can't be objective enough to bury her grievance with Saul and Victor for the better of the group. Even if Michael can live with that sign of weakness in the leader I bet Puck and Robbins will have plenty to say about their new Commander in Chief.

[kdalton]

Went back an re-listened to it again. I stand corrected. Never let it be said I didn't admit I was wrong. I thought I was wrong once before, but I was mistaken.

Chapter 31-2 around 5:53

Victor: "A couple of survivors from this place made it to the Colony a while back. Two survived the trip there."
CJ: "Excuse me! You telling me this now?"
Victor: "Didn't matter before"
CJ: "And it does now? Why? Who was it?"
Victor: "Sean, Hope, and James. Sean and Hope were the only ones to make it there alive."
CJ: "Why did you wait til now to tell me this?"
Victor: "Like I said, it didn't matter"
CJ: "Why?"
Victor: "I... Well... It just.... "
CJ: "Sean's there?!?"
Victor: "No, not any more"
CJ: "Where is he now? Where?"
Victor: "He's dead."
CJ: "Then you're right. It doesn't matter. He's not there is he?"
Victor: "But his killers are."
CJ: "You and you. What do you know?"
Pete: "Don't get me involved in this!"
Glenn: "It's true. At least we think so. He got set up."
CJ: "So, the prisoners got him?"
Saul: "Yeah. They got him."
Victor: "We, uh, we didn't want to tell you before. We didn't think it mattered."
Saul: "Thought you only cared about yourself"
CJ: "That's not true"
Saul: "So, you on our team now? How many more reasons you want?"

Very clearly a manipulation by Victor and Saul to get CJ to the Colony. And very clearly a direct lie by Saul and a little less direct lie by Victor. But the intent is very clear....

[kdalton]

CJ rising to power is not forced to me. She brought guns - the item the original colonists had pined for so they could free themselves. She organized the defense even though gravely wounded. She lost a leg.

[Red Shirt]

Michael will use the Christmas Spirit angle...

...I bet Puck and Robbins will have plenty to say about their new Commander in Chief.

As long as Christmas Spirit is only used for leverage to get them to stay and nothing more... the last time Michael used a holiday as a surreptitious means to get his way, people died. Micheal's luck at this point is going to be that CJ turns out to be Buddhist.

Don't forget Chief Muldoon... I'm sure the three of them will absolutely have plenty to say about their potential new leader. The first and primary of which is going to be, "Who the fuck do you think you are lady?" I suspect that Muldoon may say something along the lines of, "I may out rank Cross, but he has had better ideas than Kimmet and I'm alive for it so far. Frankly all I want to do is fly my bird anyway." Thus, he may fall in line with only a little in the way of ruffled feathers.

The two juniors, Puck and Robbins on the other hand... Puck in particular, are going to have a lot to say on the matter. Puck may throw in a comment along the lines of, "I don't remember all the names, but I remember the pictures of the people on the wall in my chain of command back at Irwin. Until you get to the top, I don't remember their being any civvies. On whose authority do you think (blah, blah, blah)." This could end up being the plot leverage to get CJ to divulge her past.

[al'Thor]

Can someone please tell me why CJ kicks Saul and Victor out? Is it just bc they lied about what happened to him? I don't get why she would be mad even if they did lie to her, didn't he get killed by zombies and the Gatekeeper said he killed him or w.e? I'm confused. I am so shocked that she thinks that she can just kick them out, like it want Saul and Victor that saved you from being alone etc. not to mention Lizzy is about to have Saul's baby!!!! How does she think she can just do that!? And for what!? Please someone email me or reply with al'Thor noticable so I can tell you are relying to me, I'm new to this site so I don't know how it works. Thanks everyone!

[pmchawk]

Weigh what she was told with what she knows/doesn't know.

She was told that Sean was killed by Mallers in a Koo. She blames Micheal indirectly for Sean's death but doesn't hold that against him.

What she found out/knows is the Mallers did not kill Sean and Saul needed her help to break into the colony to get to Lizzy. There for she was manipulated like a pawn.

What she doesn't know is what she was told initially was the truth just the 1 detail wasn't true, who.

If she knew everything she would still be pissed, but... Actually, I think she would still kick them out for lying to her. Information is very important in her eyes so those who give her bad info isn't worth anything to her.

Thor, you should know women forget nothing and they hold grudges and when they are pissed at you they will do anything to hurt you. They are vengeful and won't think twice about hurting you if you piss them off.

[LiamKerrington]

Hello.

Can someone please tell me why CJ kicks Saul and Victor out? Is it just bc they lied about what happened to him? I don't get why she would be mad even if they did lie to her, didn't he get killed by zombies and the Gatekeeper said he killed him or w.e? I'm confused. I am so shocked that she thinks that she can just kick them out, like it want Saul and Victor that saved you from being alone etc. not to mention Lizzy is about to have Saul's baby!!!! How does she think she can just do that!? And for what!? Please someone email me or reply with al'Thor noticable so I can tell you are relying to me, I'm new to this site so I don't know how it works. Thanks everyone!

Hey al'Thor,

you are right: it is hard to stomach CJ's action. And it really boils down to this: she feels betrayed by Saul and Victor. There is no trust between her and the two guys. Just remember, how things went:

In the very first place it was Saul who asked CJ and Victor to let down the distrust and secrecy. Do you remember his bargain with CJ about the information in her safe and working together? It is the level of distrust and animosity of strangers in a world which fell apart. And CJ gave in. They started to work together and to team up. And later it was Saul who made CJ act by using a lie to fuel her anger and lead her into her current tragic situation. Let's get into detail here:
In the first place CJ tried to argue Saul and Victor out of any action against the Colony. Also she fell in love with Saul, but he let her down, which might have been a certain burden for CJ after all. Even when the baby came up, CJ tried to reason, if this was the baby of someone else. So in the beginning she did everything to stay away from the Colony.
Then, when they started to plan their actions, it was CJ who gave really everything - it was for her that the rebellion actually worked pretty well; she put a lot of effort into the preparations and spent all/ a lot of her guns in order to make it work. Then, when everything was in turmoil, she even fought Scratch, probably because she still felt something for Saul. And the result of this was her leg being cut off.

Learning afterwards that everything that happened roots in the single lie by Saul and Victor. CJ gave everything, lost almost everything. Her dissapointment is huge, and can hardly be measured by anyone. So, yeah: I think CJ's reaction is OK and even logical, although it is a pure psychological thing. It does not make sense in a way that two able bodies and fighters are out of the game - for now. And Lizzy's baby can be taken care for by other people devaluating Saul's role in it.

So, all in all ... Maybe that helps.
Bets wishes!
Liam