Wnd #57

[Chadzero]

As for the criticism, I kind of agree, but not really. I can see where this person is coming from that it is very illogical and uncharacteristic of CJ but at the same time she just had her leg chopped off so I wouldn't say she's the most mentally stable of the bunch.

I disagree. CJ's character is very calculated and methodical. The main intel she had which led to her involvement the colony raid was false. Imagine if the same thing happened when the US invaded Iraq and never found any nuclear weapons. Just think of how duped Americans would feel....oh wait.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

@Nikvoodoo:
I agree with the criticism you quoted.

a) One of the strengths of the WA show is that it is quite realistic in most things, and many decisions by Kc follow a reasonable plan. But CJ came back as Ms Cpt Ahab just two days after her leg was cut off. I am no medic, but I see how long Michael and Saul were blown out after serious surgery or trauma of whatever kind; and CJ just starts running around, barks orders, origami-es Saul and Victor and is all cool. Is she the daughter of Wolverine having Chuck Norris as his bride? Sorry, no! When you have lost your leg, you have serious problems that last more than just a couple of hours or days.
b) As for her behaviour aside from my issue in a) I think I pretty much saw the CJ we have learned to know right from her first appearance. So I have no trouble with her using her tactics based on her personal survival-agenda in order to make people follow her order. But why the f*ck did she have to loose her leg? This is just the supporting reason or plot-device for her decision to drive out Saul and Victor. I have no idea what else this is good for.
c) Anyway: I really facepalmed at this picture: The Colonists were in a lot of trouble with the Mallers; all of a sudden an unknown chick runs amock in their territory and seriously kicks butts; but as suddenly as she has appeared, she then vanishes from site (down in the cellar where she lost her duell with Scratch); then rumor spreads that she is in medical care by the beloved Tanya (who by the way turned her back on the Colonists many months before, but regardless she seems to be accepted still), and all of a sudden this Jean D'Arc of the Zombocalypse (I speak of CJ) is voted to become the new Heroine and Leader of the Colony ... Wtf bbq? I don't buy it. And I am hard pressed to accept it. This makes no sense at all to me. To me it would have been much more concise with the WA-story if the Colonists had voted Victor to become the new leader - or someone random, who the Colonists already knew before CJ showed up.

I am sorry. I like #37, even #37-3. But I need to accept a lot more stretches than I am actually willing to in this last episode. But alas, my fury is over already, and I am looking forward to having a lot more interesting, challenging, and even mind-blowing episodes and chapters. So no harm done after all ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[SmokeyZombified]

I disagree. CJ's character is very calculated and methodical. The main intel she had which led to her involvement the colony raid was false. Imagine if the same thing happened when the US invaded Iraq and never found any nuclear weapons. Just think of how duped Americans would feel....oh wait.

True, but the trauma from losing a limb can mentally effect people. She may feel duped, but that doesn't give her the right to kick out the two people that are closest to her. Especially Saul who did everything he could to save her.

[SmokeyZombified]

Hi.

@Nikvoodoo:
I agree with the criticism you quoted.

a) One of the strengths of the WA show is that it is quite realistic in most things, and many decisions by Kc follow a reasonable plan. But CJ came back as Ms Cpt Ahab just two days after her leg was cut off. I am no medic, but I see how long Michael and Saul were blown out after serious surgery or trauma of whatever kind; and CJ just starts running around, barks orders, origami-es Saul and Victor and is all cool. Is she the daughter of Wolverine having Chuck Norris as his bride? Sorry, no! When you have lost your leg, you have serious problems that last more than just a couple of hours or days.
b) As for her behaviour aside from my issue in a) I think I pretty much saw the CJ we have learned to know right from her first appearance. So I have no trouble with her using her tactics based on her personal survival-agenda in order to make people follow her order. But why the f*ck did she have to loose her leg? This is just the supporting reason or plot-device for her decision to drive out Saul and Victor. I have no idea what else this is good for.
c) Anyway: I really facepalmed at this picture: The Colonists were in a lot of trouble with the Mallers; all of a sudden an unknown chick runs amock in their territory and seriously kicks butts; but as suddenly as she has appeared, she then vanishes from site (down in the cellar where she lost her duell with Scratch); then rumor spreads that she is in medical care by the beloved Tanya (who by the way turned her back on the Colonists many months before, but regardless she seems to be accepted still), and all of a sudden this Jean D'Arc of the Zombocalypse (I speak of CJ) is voted to become the new Heroine and Leader of the Colony ... Wtf bbq? I don't buy it. And I am hard pressed to accept it. This makes no sense at all to me. To me it would have been much more concise with the WA-story if the Colonists had voted Victor to become the new leader - or someone random, who the Colonists already knew before CJ showed up.

I am sorry. I like #37, even #37-3. But I need to accept a lot more stretches than I am actually willing to in this last episode. But alas, my fury is over already, and I am looking forward to having a lot more interesting, challenging, and even mind-blowing episodes and chapters. So no harm done after all ...

Best wishes!
Liam

She is the one who organized the defenses, so the Colonists know she's a good planner. Plus the only other option is Michael and they have made it clear they don't like him one bit. Seems logical enough to me!

[nikvoodoo]

all I say re: CJ and her overall bitchitude in 37-3:

[LiamKerrington]

all I say re: CJ and her overall bitchitude in 37-3:

Yeah, sure:

Badass of the Week. She deserves this title totally.

@SmokeyZombified: Yes, I can make myself think and accept that what I really don't like. But it remains a stretch, and I am not happy with it.

[Witch_Doctor]

Not so sure the SWAT Van left the colony. I think it got used as a battering ram, but I don't think she got away with it.

Something else I'm planning on bringing up today is the following posted to the WA facebook page. I'm not going to bother posting the name because basically...it's easy to find...:

Massive fan of the show. Massive. As a friend of the show I have to saw that this week's episode is the worst in the show's history.

Since this is essentially meaningless from a criticism POV, I asked them why they thought so. Response:

Im sorry to criticize. I dearly love the show. The plot seemed to drag, which i understand is sometimes necessary to broader plot and character development, so no big deal. The big problem was that cj's behavior made no sense. It was inconsistent within the show, for her character, would not be tolerated by any if the other characters, and was generally illogical. In my humble opinion, this kind of major plot problem is unheard of in this show. The plot, character development and writing are major strengths of the show (actors you rock my world, too!), and are what make it so real and engrossing and consistently good. Cj's behavior just seemed to represent a first example of a fundamental plot problem. Still, i love the show, recommend it to everyone and thank you for making it!

What do you think? I've heard loads of positive reviews about this week's episode. What do you think of the criticism?

First, I want to say, Nurse Britt, Nurse Britt, Nurse Britt, Buttsex McGee, Buttsex McGee, Buttsex McGee, Hot Wings & Beer, XBox, Nursing Britt McGee's Xwings with a Box of Beer and Hot Buttsex, whatevah Just PLEASE Mention me! Witch Doctor!



I agree, somewhat, with the Facebook poster. That is, not a critique of the show but a critique of CJ's behavior. I can see how she can be butt hurt and irrational but I just can't see everyone falling in line with her demand that Saul and Victor leave and everything else she sets up staying in place. Both Jannit and I wrote about how much the SHTF when this deal becomes public. In fact, how can it possibly remain secret in a believable manner? There will be too many splits and conflicted loyalties. This could drag the Balance of Power aspect of the story along several chapters. I want to see people fighting zombies, not people fighting each other. (Yes, I know human conflict is major part of a survival story, but BLOODY HELL!!! Kalani's story, as good as it is took sooooo long!) Some of us think that the resolution may be more mundane than the projected Lord-of-the-Flies-Junior-High-School-Clique Fest that this appears to be turning into. KC is a master of misdirection.

I dunno guys. The whole Colony/Dunbar split, Who goes/Who stays thing seems too obvious as a major conflict based on CJ's grudge. Hopefully the Colonists are not so blind as to let the Military & Medical expertise leave based on one person's grudge. See how she used her new authority for personal use by telling the guys that the Colonists just elected her Empress. Talk about you benevolent dictators.

It just seems too simplistic for the conflict to result in that kind of split. Like everyone's been saying, I doubt Saul & Victor are gonna leave without saying why. When the reason get out, crap is gonna happen. This seems like the simplest course. I think KC is setting us up for crazy chaos just to reveal a simpler solution.

The less interesting but possibly more likely scenario is that CJ ends up changing her mind about the banishment. She's got a lot more to lose than anyone else if things go down the way you mention here - and the way a lot of people have mentioned so far. Perhaps she calms down and reasons this idea through a bit more and comes to her senses. Considering all the trauma the girl has been through in the last couple of days it IS understandable that she might be a tad temperamental and overreact.

Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to say. When I tried reading what I wrote, it made no earthly sense.

Or things could go the way of Balkans for a short time like Scubibbly Beebob says.

I agree it's pretty straight forward thinking. That doesn't mean it won't be true "somewhat". That is, maybe we have the splits like people are theorizing but the splits aren't permanent. Plenty of things can still happen to bring groups together or drive a wedge. I see the Colony paying a big price longer term. Too many people in one place. TOWTM won't be able to resist and he'll be better prepared to take a defended position this time....

Either way, storm's a comin'

[SmokeyZombified]

Yeah, sure:

Badass of the Week. She deserves this title totally.

@SmokeyZombified: Yes, I can make myself think and accept that what I really don't like. But it remains a stretch, and I am not happy with it.

I do agree that its a bit of a stretch, but I also feel like the loss of her leg and the trauma suffered from it may be a factor. She may also just be losing it altogether. Also if you remember the Colony was pretty much leaderless after GateKeeper and Bixby were killed and CJ is the one who, even with a extremely damaged leg, still took the time to organize the Colonists. Remember what Victor said to Michael, the Colony doesn't forget things very easily.

[Witch_Doctor]

I disagree. CJ's character is very calculated and methodical. The main intel she had which led to her involvement the colony raid was false. Imagine if the same thing happened when the US invaded Iraq and never found any nuclear weapons. Just think of how duped Americans would feel....oh wait.

But keep in mind, that cold calculating mind gave sway to emotionalism, the kind that affects her decisions. What happened here is an Is/Ought conflict. The Is, i.e. the facts, are that she can't count on Tanya's or Micheal's support after kicking two people, dear to them, out. The Ought part is her remedy for her feelings of betrayal. How can she do both? One is logical, the other is moral. On the logical front, she contradicts her own rationale for taking charge of the Colony over Micheal, i.e. the Colonist won't have it and they want her instead. A sort of 'This is business, not personal' position. But we're going to see how much a poor leader she can be when she mixes the two. Hat tip to GrogNuard for the poor leadership point.

[scbubba]

I don't think we have a plot hole around CJ's actions or her character in 37-3. I also think the general story in the chapter is fine.

CJ starts out just like she was doing before - plan for her.
- When she first went into the Colony, it was for her. For physical or emotional reasons, she needed/wanted revenge for Sean's death and she was making a play for Saul.
- After her fight with Scratch, she was laid up in the infirmary. She immediately began doing what she felt was necessary for her survival/safety and that was taking charge of the defense (against Mallers, zombies, whatever).
- Once she comes around from anesthesia, she begins making sure she she can continue to be as safe as possible (she is feeling even more vulnerable with the lost leg now). She has been working with and talking to several people in the Colony for several days. Word has been spreading about her heroism in defeating the Mallers and getting the defenses set for zombie attack. She could have easily been planting the idea that they need a leader ASAP.

So, she plays the political angle and gets the vote. Michael isn't gonna get the vote (plenty of proof for that), Victor won't either (he so much as says people there don't like him and he is at least implicated in leaving the Colony defenseless against the Mallers). Previous leaders and people in the chain of command are dead: Marcus, Sean, Gatekeeper, Bixby. It's not a stretch to see how so many people could be convinced that CJ should be the new leader in a short period of time.

Now, on to her actions with Tanya, Michael, Saul, and Victor.

Tanya is necessary for CJ's continued survival and safety. No brainer. So CJ has to convince her to stay. She starts out doing a craptacular job of trying to talk about it with her but wins her over. She is even very specific in answering Tanya's question about "carry on with Michael" by saying "With him? Yes, I do." I think CJ is fully expecting to throw Victor out at that instant and might be sending Saul too. In the heat of emotion, she tries to secure Tanya's word. Not being rational about how the woman might react when Saul leaves.

Michael is also necessary to CJ's survival. As she herself says "He has military experience and I'll need that right now." She also tries to secure Michael's word to work with her. At that point, she is thinking that Michael's agreement with her will supersede his tie with Saul or Victor. Emotion trumping rational thought process.

Saul and Victor, while still obviously useful, are a liability in her mind with the betrayal. The are not only expendable but a threat to her personally.

I see this being another example of her "plan well, execute badly" pattern. She had a great (at least in her mind) plan for how the Colony should be run and how it would provide for her survival and safety. In executing that plan, there was a curveball that she has dealt with badly. This has caused her execution to go down the drain.

From our perspective, she is doing things that don't make sense. But I can see how the situation would have her making these choices....

As for her being up and about after the surgery, it's not something most people would want to do but I believe leg amputee patients are often eating a regular diet and getting out of bed (often with assistance) the 1st day after recovery from anesthesia. And whether you like her or not, you have to admit that CJ is one tough person. So I don't see a big stretch on that in this episode.

That's at least the way I see it. For what that might be worth....