Chapter 36- Scorched Earth

[StrangeMeadowlark]

Would they even let civilians on the C-130 if it had the nukes on it? IF they wanted to keep the nukes secret, then flying it with non-military who shouldn't know they exist would be a bad idea.

[scbubba]

Interesting theory. So if Kimmet was out picking up nukes at Pantex when Michael and crew arrived at Fort Irwin, then that means that Pegs, Datu, Kelly and hope flew to Boulder with that city's nuke. Maybe in that Hummer that was on the C-130.

Or he sent them via separate transport and the one in Boulder got there before our heroes. Either way, it makes you wonder about I decisions like that. What does it do to people to have to make decisions about who lives and who dies on a pretty massive scale? Reminds me of the Cuban Missle Crisis and the Cold War.

[Witch_Doctor]

Would they even let civilians on the C-130 if it had the nukes on it? IF they wanted to keep the nukes secret, then flying it with non-military who shouldn't know they exist would be a bad idea.

According to Kimmet, no one knew they existed, except he and the engineers who installed them. They were likely packaged nondescriptly.

The timeline for this is a bit off, though. Kimmet tells Michael that it was put in place BEFORE Michael's arrival.

[Red Shirt]

Alright, I don't have much, just a few things I want to throw out there... only the end of Season Three and a Thirty-Six page thread to catch up on, but I'm BACK.

Is there any chance that Muldoon and Edwards' Blackhawk survived the fight at Fort Irwin? I know it was over the barracks when Muldoon warned them to run and there wasn't much time to act before the nuke went off. But there is some serious terrain around Fort Irwin, and it wouldn't take a Blackhawk very much time to get behind a mountain and into one of the deeper valleys, where it could potentially survive a nuke blast at the main encampment.

I regretfully doubt it. The B-53 was a 9 Megaton device:
(Please see below for my chagrined corrections.)

irwin1.JPGIrwin2.JPG

It would have more or less glassed the garrison proper and done significant damage to the entire "bowl" valley Irwin sat in. I don't think that there would have been enough time for that chopper to make it far enough to make it to significant terrain to shadow behind. The B-53 was actually a bit of over kill.

If it did survive the blast & EMP, where could it get to after all that? It had a been in the air a pretty good amount of time prior to the blast, I think.

So what's the range of a Blackhawk under normal conditions? I know they went to LA and back with a Blackhawk before so it's definitely doable, right?

CP Nailed it, it is over 1300 Miles with the ESSS tank modification, but it was a Chinook that they took to LA.

Good info. Thanks CP!

I would assume fuel would become the main limiter for air travel now. But since nobody else is out there using it, there should be some caches around. Getting it to the choppers, or getting the choppers to the fuel, could get tricky.

I wonder if we're gonna see much of the air support in Season 4. Air superiority has decided many battles in history so it would definitely warrant thought here....

Well, there is the Airport, the fuel depot and don't forget, LA is an Oil Town.
(For frack's sake. I thought I posted info about that here on the forums, a Youtube video on it. It's Killing me, not being able to find it. Anyway, check THIS for reference.)

PANTEC is in Texas. Not sure is that's within the Pelican's range...

It isn't. LA to Amarillo is 937.5 miles. (Round trip 1875) The only thing they MIGHT have at their disposal is an ESSS equipped Blackhawk, and that's a one-way trip.

For your consideration, here's a list of aircraft and fuel ranges I was researching for transportation to PANTEX. It is still relevant as, in addition to the Pelican, it lists other aircraft they might be able to get their hands on. If they're lucky.

Now I dont know if anybody has said this and I'm not going to go through 26 pages to see...

I Did.

*ahem* King Datu the Resourceful is not Doodoo.

No, no, no. It's R2DATU & The Millennium Pelican. Thanks again for that Witch_Doctor.

Interesting theory. So if Kimmet was out picking up nukes at Pantex when Michael and crew arrived at Fort Irwin, then that means that Pegs, Datu, Kelly and hope flew to Boulder with that city's nuke. Maybe in that Hummer that was on the C-130.

There's no way it could have fit in Hummer, the damn things were the size of a Hummer. They only weigh just a bit over 4 tons and would fit on a C130 so it is in the realm of possibility that it could have been on their plane.

Would they even let civilians on the C-130 if it had the nukes on it? IF they wanted to keep the nukes secret, then flying it with non-military who shouldn't know they exist would be a bad idea.

Maybe, maybe not. The B-53 doesn't look like what a "popularized" bomb looks like, throw a tarp over it and call it a water tank. The civvies would be none the wiser.


Alright, two predictions:

• We learn that CJ is COL Kimmet's other niece, the Black Sheep of the Kimmet family.
• Radiation poisoning becomes evident in one or more of the characters that evac'd out of Boulder.

Oh yeah. The B-53. I kinda called it. No I didn't, cuz Imma dummy

Boom goes the dynamite.

[Witch_Doctor]

Hey hey hey, Red Shirt is back Good to see you, buddy. As always, really good, thoughtful post.
One correction though, the nukes were 1.2 mT B83s, not propane tank-sized B53.


B-83 300px-B-83_nuclear_weapon.jpg

B-53 b53.jpg

B-52 The.B-52.s.jpg

[Red Shirt]

Hey hey hey, Red Shirt is back Good to see you, buddy. As always, really good, thoughtful post.
One correction though, the nukes were 1.2 mT B83s, not propane tank-sized B53.

Crap. Just checked the wiki on it and found the thread that I should have known about. Notably Cabbage Patch's blast & fallout report.

And that kids, is what happens when you don't have internet.

B52 The.B-52.s.jpg

[Red Shirt]

OK, so thank you goes to Witch_Doctor for pointing out my error with the type of warhead that was used, and to Cabbage Patch for their work on the previously mentioned blast and fallout report.

With that information in hand, I reviewed my damage assessment of Irwin. Which is still a total loss:

irwin3.JPGirwin4.JPG

You can see that the damage is still extensive and that the garrison proper is still toast.

However,

Several important considerations to think about are that:

• The B-83 overall size is mostly a delivery device. Hell, the rear third is a parachute. The actual physics package is only 3-4 feet long and easily hidden...
• Hidden where? if Kimmet had it placed in a basement then blast mitigation is slightly on our side. If he placed it, say at the top of a water tower then the damage could have been greater. (The blast calculator tool doesn't specify sub-surface, surface or air burst...)
• The B-83 has a variable yield warhead, adjustable from the low Kt range to a max of 1.2 Mt...

I still think though, that any birds in the air were probably destroyed. But, if they reacted fast enough, it is possible that they might have been able to shadow behind terrain to escape the blast. Any of the mountains to the West, North or South may have been sufficient. However, there was still a massive EMP associated with this detonation...

The Ammo Holding Area South of garrison would likely be a total loss, as would the West AHA. Both AHA's are relatively close, the South AHA across a stretch of open flat land. However, depending on the exact location of the bomb in garrison and that the doors of the south ammo bunkers face away from base and the West AHA is 'behind' a small mountain, it is possible that they survived the blast.
(I am looking at the satellite for the AHA locations, I have no idea if they were in use in May of 2009.)

Again, depending on the location of the bomb, it is possible that C130's parked out at Bicycle Lake Army Airfield might have survived the blast. It is hard to say if the mountains between garrison and the likely parking area at BLAA are tall enough. I don't recall if it was directly addressed, but I think that with Boulder getting overrun, airworthy C130's would have taken off for Irwin... with or without evacuees.

I think it might be time to go back to Bell and hit up Supply's NBC cage and get some Radiacs.

[DaTank]

Curious, Kimmet thought he could hold the fort with the troops he had, but in the end he nuke it cause there was no other choice except go to the colony with Michael and the others.

[Red Shirt]

Curious, Kimmet thought he could hold the fort with the troops he had, but in the end he nuke it cause there was no other choice except go to the colony with Michael and the others.

From Kimmet's introduction, he seemed like a strait shooter, a ball buster to be sure, but generally on the up an up. You don't make it to full bird by being everyone's friend.

Yes, he did put into place the nuclear contingency. That, while terrifying, also seemed to me to be a tactically sound decision. I mentioned previously that under the provisions of the Continuity of Operations Plan and during the PANTEX discussion that:

...with the disintegration of the entire chain of command above his position, and presumably the Commander in Chief, he may very well be the "rankingest" person left in the US military. That would actually give him the authority to deploy nuclear weapons.

All of his actions to that point seemed to be in following with what he was allowed to do and frankly with what he should have done.


With learning that his Niece had been killed however, presumably the last family he had, he seemed to slowly become "unhinged." Despite Micheal's experience with the zed's in LA, he ignored his advice. Advice that might have stopped or at least curtailed the events In Boulder and subsequently Ft. Irwin.

With the loss of Boulder and the overwhelming attack on Irwin, Kimmet lost it. Reasoning with him at this point would have been like nailing jello to the wall.

Sane, well balanced officers don't pull their sidearm on their subordinates. They also can recognize that they are not just losing a battle, but also losing their foothold in an established safe zone. They don't heard civvies into a holding area to lure zeds into a Nuclear Kill Zone. Simply put, Kimmet went insane, clinically & certifiable. At that point, nothing he did would make sense.

[RabidWolf]

........ ck!