Chapter 24 discussion- "The Harder They Fall"

[Laura]

I thought the same as you did at first. But then I remembered Kalani's past. For example this is the second chapter he is seen in, and the first chapter that he is in the Tower. The first one in which he appears being the purgatory.
http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showw...and+Recreation
In this, it had literally been one night and two days, before the 'traitor' had first been discovered, from the arrival of Kalani to the tower for the first time. After being in the Arena for about a month, prior to being in the Other Tower for 3 days before that, and then in Hawaii and some sort of hotel before the tower.
I don't see how he could have come into contact with the Mallers - even if he got his hands onto a radio, would he know their channel? Would they keep it the same? Since it had to have been at least a month since he had last spoken to them - or so. How would they organize such a large attack in a single day? And another thing. If the Mallers held 'his Hanna' as ransom for him to do their bidding, and he disappeared for a month, with no word, probably dead, why the hell would they keep 'his Hanna' alive?
Perhaps, if he does end up being the traitor, those will remain one of those unanswered questions in this podcast.
Those are pretty much the only reasons I believe Kalani wasn't the spy.
I think it might have been someone who had arrived in that second batch of people - the first being Michael and the gang + Lizzy.
It's all just making me so curious...

Good point. It better not be an unanswered question BECAUSE I WANT TO KNOW! I think after we find out who Hannah is and what was in that journal, we'll understand.

[wh33t]

I thought the same as you did at first. But then I remembered Kalani's past. For example this is the second chapter he is seen in, and the first chapter that he is in the Tower. The first one in which he appears being the purgatory.
http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showw...and+Recreation
In this, it had literally been one night and two days, before the 'traitor' had first been discovered, from the arrival of Kalani to the tower for the first time. After being in the Arena for about a month, prior to being in the Other Tower for 3 days before that, and then in Hawaii and some sort of hotel before the tower.
I don't see how he could have come into contact with the Mallers - even if he got his hands onto a radio, would he know their channel? Would they keep it the same? Since it had to have been at least a month since he had last spoken to them - or so. How would they organize such a large attack in a single day? And another thing. If the Mallers held 'his Hanna' as ransom for him to do their bidding, and he disappeared for a month, with no word, probably dead, why the hell would they keep 'his Hanna' alive?
Perhaps, if he does end up being the traitor, those will remain one of those unanswered questions in this podcast.
Those are pretty much the only reasons I believe Kalani wasn't the spy.
I think it might have been someone who had arrived in that second batch of people - the first being Michael and the gang + Lizzy.
It's all just making me so curious...

He could have just fabricated his past?

Well who's to say that he went silent for a month? Perhaps he was still communicating with them the whole time. Perhaps he even lied to them a bunch to tip the odds in favour of the Tower crew?

Damn it, I need to get my hands (or rather ears in this case!) on that journal!

See know for sure that Hannah dying meant something to Kalani. We know for sure Pippen was indeed a spy. And we know for sure someone purposely killed Pippen in stealth. I'm not sure how else the dots can be connected. The Mallers had leverage against Kalani via Hannah, whether or not they were aware of that fact is an assumption I'm making to complete the connection but they did for sure have leverage over Kalani.

Still not really feeling the whole Angel / Scratch thing. Angel has always seemed a bit of a baby to me. I can't see him doing anything remotely criminal that Scratch would also be doing.

[cerealkiller]

He could have just fabricated his past?

Well who's to say that he went silent for a month? Perhaps he was still communicating with them the whole time. Perhaps he even lied to them a bunch to tip the odds in favour of the Tower crew?

Damn it, I need to get my hands (or rather ears in this case!) on that journal!

See know for sure that Hannah dying meant something to Kalani. We know for sure Pippen was indeed a spy. And we know for sure someone purposely killed Pippen in stealth. I'm not sure how else the dots can be connected. The Mallers had leverage against Kalani via Hannah, whether or not they were aware of that fact is an assumption I'm making to complete the connection but they did for sure have leverage over Kalani.

He could have made up some of his past - obviously not the being a pilot one. So let's assume the Hawaii part is true also.
But he definitely could not have been in contact with them for that month, ROFL. He was in the Arena... Did you forget the whole purgatory chapter? They barely had food there. Even if he had a way to communicate with them, it did not look likely that he would live, and no one could have known that the people from the Tower would come to Datu's rescue. So I think communicating for that month, within the Arena, wasn't possible. And that still leaves how he would get the news out to the Mallers at the one night he was there, I doubt anyone would let him use the walkie-talkie or whatever, seeing as he had JUST got here, and it's not an extremely trusting crowd.
Hanna, obviously was someone he loved. Though why are we all jumping the gun assuming she was the red-head? If something that important had happened we would hear Michael saying what happened in the chopper or something. She could have been someone he lost a while ago, perhaps in the Arena as well, perhaps before. Maybe he was responsible for her death or felt responsible, so he wanted to 'pay back' by sacrificing himself.
There are so many 'what if's' in Kalani's case, and SO many unanswered questions that I think we'll need a whole chapter just called 'Kalani's Journal' if we ever want answers to all of them. xD
At least I can't wait to find out the main parts. As in if he was the traitor, and who Hanna was. And if he was the traitor I'll just have all these 'HOW?' questions, as I said now.

[wh33t]

He could have made up some of his past - obviously not the being a pilot one. So let's assume the Hawaii part is true also.
But he definitely could not have been in contact with them for that month, ROFL. He was in the Arena... Did you forget the whole purgatory chapter? They barely had food there. Even if he had a way to communicate with them, it did not look likely that he would live, and no one could have known that the people from the Tower would come to Datu's rescue. So I think communicating for that month, within the Arena, wasn't possible. And that still leaves how he would get the news out to the Mallers at the one night he was there, I doubt anyone would let him use the walkie-talkie or whatever, seeing as he had JUST got here, and it's not an extremely trusting crowd.
Hanna, obviously was someone he loved. Though why are we all jumping the gun assuming she was the red-head? If something that important had happened we would hear Michael saying what happened in the chopper or something. She could have been someone he lost a while ago, perhaps in the Arena as well, perhaps before. Maybe he was responsible for her death or felt responsible, so he wanted to 'pay back' by sacrificing himself.
There are so many 'what if's' in Kalani's case, and SO many unanswered questions that I think we'll need a whole chapter just called 'Kalani's Journal' if we ever want answers to all of them. xD
At least I can't wait to find out the main parts. As in if he was the traitor, and who Hanna was. And if he was the traitor I'll just have all these 'HOW?' questions, as I said now.

Are you saying Kalani only briefed the tower for one night before the big attack? If so, I completely over-looked that key factor. I would have a hard time imagining they planned the attack on such short notice as well and I certainly don't presume Kalani was speaking with the Mallers whilst in the Arena.

I also think I need to re-listen to Kalani's last moments but I could have sworn I thought he mentioned the golf course and Hanna in the same sentence.

[HardKor]

He could have made up some of his past - obviously not the being a pilot one. So let's assume the Hawaii part is true also.
But he definitely could not have been in contact with them for that month, ROFL. He was in the Arena... Did you forget the whole purgatory chapter? They barely had food there. Even if he had a way to communicate with them, it did not look likely that he would live, and no one could have known that the people from the Tower would come to Datu's rescue. So I think communicating for that month, within the Arena, wasn't possible. And that still leaves how he would get the news out to the Mallers at the one night he was there, I doubt anyone would let him use the walkie-talkie or whatever, seeing as he had JUST got here, and it's not an extremely trusting crowd.
Hanna, obviously was someone he loved. Though why are we all jumping the gun assuming she was the red-head? If something that important had happened we would hear Michael saying what happened in the chopper or something. She could have been someone he lost a while ago, perhaps in the Arena as well, perhaps before. Maybe he was responsible for her death or felt responsible, so he wanted to 'pay back' by sacrificing himself.
There are so many 'what if's' in Kalani's case, and SO many unanswered questions that I think we'll need a whole chapter just called 'Kalani's Journal' if we ever want answers to all of them. xD
At least I can't wait to find out the main parts. As in if he was the traitor, and who Hanna was. And if he was the traitor I'll just have all these 'HOW?' questions, as I said now.

There seem to be some big pros and cons for Kalani being the rat.
Pros:
1) Hannah being held by the Mallers is definite leverage over him. And it does seem pretty clear she was the one killed at the golf course. Otherwise why would Kalani go berserk at that moment as opposed to before? And she was the only significant death in the chapter at that point.
2) Kalani leaving something in Bill's desk just makes us all think "rat" since Bill was the presumed rat in the beginning.
3) Kalani leaving something in Bill's desk also means he was hiding something.

Cons:
1) Scratch mentioning that the Mallers have two Tower residents. She would have known the decoy team was going to kill the girl at the golf course (I doubt they would have done that without her say so and risked her wrath) so the other person couldn't be "Hannah" which mean there might be another hostage the Mallers have been using as leverage. Kalani might not have know the Mallers had Hannah until she was killed.
2) Tardust mentioned a girl when talking about Pippin making contact. And it seems to insinuate a female rat.

Seriously all this "who's the rat?" stuff is making me cross-eyed

[cerealkiller]

Haha, it's making me cross-eyed too. xD
Do we even know for sure his Hanna is the red-head? Does he mention jer name and the golf court in the same sentance?
And yeah, he only had one night in the tower, before the Mallers attacked. The traitor had apparently already said everything about the Tower people to the Mallers, and did Kalani really know them enough in that one night to tell the Mallers what they would need to know for tomorrow night?
I don't know. It's all possible. I just want answers. xD I'm the type of person that wants a beliavable outcome to every situation that can be explained. Sadly that doesn't seem KC's style. Damn him. xD

Another thing that just crossed my mind, is whether Samantha( was that Hope mom's name?) had said Kalani had been in the Arena longer than her or that they arrived together?!
Cause if he arrived sooner he couldn't have been from the Other Tower since Samantha definitely was, and the stories he told could have been just told to him by Sam. Then again Datu was there, but he was also very distraught, so I don't know if he would remember such a detail. He could have been sent to the arena to investigate, ause they were planning to blow it up.
That's only if Sam said he had come there before her. xD
GAAAAH. I just really need this journal.

Also the second person Scratch was talking about could just have been Lizzy's baby, in case she really is pregnant like it seems. :'D

[andrew_huber]

If Angel had some kind of criminal record how would he have gotten into the Army to become an officer?

saul has a criminal record to and he got in and when angel and when kalani and angel went on that mission for food kalani always mentioned how angel was good at steeling cars

[wh33t]

saul has a criminal record to and he got in and when angel and when kalani and angel went on that mission for food kalani always mentioned how angel was good at steeling cars

But isn't there a huge difference between being an officer and just being a specialist? I figured to be some kind of leader in the military means having a clean criminal record, I sure hope it's that way at least lol, but isn't that part of the inside joke that Angel and Saul used to argue about (him being an officer and Saul just being a specialist).

I don't personally recall him saying he stole cars but was referring to the fact that Angel knows how to hot wire a car. I know how to hot wire some cars, but I'm not necessarily a criminal, I just come from a family of mechanics. Could you reference that particular point in which episode, I should re-listen to that part as I don't recall it ever being blatantly said that Angel had actually stolen a car.

[wh33t]

I don't know. It's all possible. I just want answers. xD I'm the type of person that wants a beliavable outcome to every situation that can be explained. Sadly that doesn't seem KC's style. Damn him. xD

Now that you mention it... what if KC is NEVER PLANNING to tell us wtf happened to Michaels arm ?!o.O!?

[andrew_huber]

I don't recall it ever being blatantly said that Angel had actually stolen a car.

i dont think he ever blatantly accuses angel of stealing a car