hey y'all, i want some feedback from my readers on the story. please tell me what you think works, and what you think doesn't, this is basically the rough draft so any kind of feedback is welcome.
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hey y'all, i want some feedback from my readers on the story. please tell me what you think works, and what you think doesn't, this is basically the rough draft so any kind of feedback is welcome.
Hey reaper. First bit of feedback I have for you is that I love reading these and thanks for sharing them with all of us.
A few of the things I like (there are probably more):
- The story and the characters got my attention and kept it by giving me enough to know what's going on without revealing it all to me at once. I like how the story line unfolds and how I learn more about each character as it goes along.
- I like a lot of the details you've put in there. It reads like it was written by the guy that was there and who knows what the hell he's talking about (more on this later too).
- I like the way the pacing is varied in the different scenes. Action is action and relaxed is relaxed.
Some things I didn't like as much:
- As much as I like the details throughout, there are some places where it might be over done. I'm mainly thinking about how indepth you get with several of the weapons: both in the load out descriptions and in the middle of some of the action.
- During the scenes like the helo vs humvee, I was having a harder time tracking the action and who was where doing what. Might be a way to make that more clear - but without losing the edge of the fast paced action (the confusion actually could lend itself to more realism in the action but....)
General:
I like the feel of the story as being told by the "insider" - the guy who knows his stuff. I'm at least familiar with a lot of the terminology and such but it might be a little off putting for folks that aren't. That may not matter based on who you would be targeting as an audience for this.
All in all, I like it a lot and can't wait to see more! (hint hint)
which section are you talking about, the introduction of the joint squad members in the kill house? do you think a character reference sheet would be a good replacement? when i say character reference sheet, i mean something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by scbubba
John Welsh: Call Sign Soul Sister, US Army Special Forces Medical Sergeant, Delta Force, CQB Specialist, M4 CQBR (Mk18) attachments listed here, M1014 JSCS attachments listed here, languages spoken, etc, etc.
John Bailey: Call Sign Big Dog, etc, etc.
also, i think the confusion comes from me writing too quick and maybe not putting in enough pronouns to distinguish between the squad and the choppers. i'm going to look into fixing that.
For me it was far too much time spent on things that didn't move the story forward--e.g. the guns and ammo aspect. It's military based, I get that, but I felt it was at the expense of characterization, and really felt like filler. I get that there's a language that you're trying to capture, but I really didn't feel connected to any character.Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper239
I'll totally read a second draft, which I assume you'll be posting soon.
2nd Draft = 1st draft - 10%
ok, so what about this: the original sentence was "My team consisted of me with my MK18 Mod 0 with all the fixings, Shorty with his Bushmaster ACR, Deacon with his SCAR-H, King and his M60, and our spook was G-Man wielding a Mk11 Mod 0."Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris
i revised it leaving only pertinent details: My team consisted of me, Shorty, Deacon, and King carrying a M60, and our spook was G-Man filling the role of the sniper.
what do you think?
as for the main squad, the weapons are actually pertinent to the roles they fill. i feel like i need to convey that information, but i agree, listing in the story as it is kind of takes up some of the pacing, and gets a little dry.
I'd be more inclined to go with the revision. The weaponry is really only important in "the moment" and until that moment it seems better to build the characters and their relationships. The fact that G-Man is a sniper isn't as important as why he's a sniper. Does he have a god complex? Is he a bit of a loner? Does he get nauseous when he has to kill someone close up? The fact that he's carrying a <insert weapon> is less important--as a reader--than it is why he chose that role in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper239
That is not a cry for exposition, rather learning through action and interaction. Maybe that's just the writer in me. I would consider going as far as doing a draft in which the weaponry is completely disregarded, using the base terminology of pistol, shotgun, rifle, and shifting all your focus to how the characters a) relate to the environment that they're in, and b) relate to one another. Once you've built the characters enough that the reader understands why they play the roles they play, re-introduce the weaponry. You may be surprised at how much deeper the story goes with far less "detail."
Only a suggestion. I'll absolutely be interested in reading further, and most definitely interested in future drafts.
Yeah, I think there was too much focus on the "what" and not the "who" in a lot of places. Special Forces operators are a lot more interesting than what they carry, I feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper239
Osiris is WAY more knowledgable in the craft of writing than I am so I'll leave that to him and some others. But I'm definitely willing to give audience feedback whenever the next round is available.
i made some edits to posts 7 and 8, if you would, give them a read and let me know what you think of the changes.
Something seems strange about your tense. It's like you're relating the story in both past and present tense, but not exclusive of each other. I noted this in your latest instalment. It can be confusing as to whether the character is thinking or remembering. I'm still a little off-put by the generic lists of action:
Quote:
Every man then took a running step, planted their foot in the hands of Big Dog or Ogre, and was hoisted over by Devil or Mouse. We vaulted the wall in quick succession, first Munky, then Dirt Digger, then myself, then Bugsy, then Odin, then Priest, then Sydwinder, Ogre and Big Dog, and finally Devil and Mouse dropped from the wall. 7 minutes from start to finish.
It's easy to fall into the trap of doing this, thinking that you're painting a picture, but you're just giving me a list, and lists don't make for pretty. You could consider chopping passages like this down to a minimum: Devil and Mouse took turns hauling everyone onto the wall as Ogre and Big Dog aided them from below.
Keep it simple when you can.
I think what is most confusing is whether I'm reading a third person narrative or if I'm reading a diary. I'd also recommend getting rid of the Georgian "dialogue" in favour of either direct translation or go with nothing but a reference to "a voice speaking Georgian over the radio." Anything else is unnecessary. Your average reader isn't going to be able to even identify the language, let alone be able to translate what is on the page.
It's not a bad story, and with some work with an editor you could probably streamline it into something very readable for more than just fans of military fiction. As it stands right now I'm willing to bet that it isn't going to appeal to a broad audience. Then again, it depends on who you're writing for, and what you hope to achieve by writing this. If you're simply flexing your chops and trying to improve then I'd have to say big ups for your growth. You've improved greatly since the first instalment.
in the beginning it is established that it is being written by the character as a kind of tell all memoir regarding the fictional events in the story. the whole thing culminates in a grand news catching display that draws the attention of the nation but is never explained fully, and this (years after the event) is that explenation from the man behind the scenes. so it is kind of both a third person narrative and a personal diary rolled into one. it's told from his perspective, but like with the every man thing, sometimes he just tells the story a little differently. think about when you tell a story to your friends (well, maybe not you but, you know, normal people ;)) you don't always keep the same steady flow, your story shifts a bit the way you say a specific detail might change with re-tellings, but story telling is a fluid process. that's kind of where this is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris
regarding the paragraph you referenced, i wrote it (and several others like it) to convey a sense of time. i wanted to give the feeling of time actually passing as the actions take place, not just saying 'such and such happened' but giving the process, as someone of welsh's particular skill set and background might be apt to do. however, looking at it now, i see what you're talking about, the list of names can get tiring. gonna take a second look at some of those, see if i can convey time with wasting it.
the average reader isn't supposed to be able to translate the georgian text, or even really follow the english bits, except to glean bits of information from them. again, i wanted to convey the passage of time, the georgian is written, and then you see a series of actions underneath it, and i was hoping that the reader would be able to marry the two, that the one accompanied the other.
as for who it is intended to appeal to, just me. as i'm sure happens with any avid reader, i reached a point where i thought "i'd like to see this type of book, and i have an idea for a perfect story to fit there." so i started writing. this is so much better than when i first started writing. the first thing i tried to write was a resident evil fan fic back in highschool (throughout my highschool career) and the change from the first thing i wrote to when i finally put that to bed knowing that no amount of retro editing i ever did would see it published was astounding. by the time i was done with it i had reached a point of understanding that i had improved, was improving, and would continue to improve to a point far beyond what i had currently achieved, so i put it to bed (it is now gone forever since that computer was destroyed) and started a different work.
what do you think of this revision
We vaulted the wall in quick succession, two at a time, until everyone made it over and Mouse and Devil dropped off the wall.
It's far more succinct, and has more strength in it than the succession of names for the sake of filling space. Strive for elegant simplicity. It's like pushing a plate of food at someone who isn't hungry. If you want the reader to invest in the story it's often best to allow them to create a lot of details for themselves. I tend to go no further than hair and eye colour, sometimes the clothing, but more often than not I try to be as terse as possible with description, focusing more attention on the why as opposed to the what or how. If that makes sense. I'd love to see a complete polished version with formatting more becoming the written word--it's very difficult to format anything on here with any success. Still . . . looking forward to seeing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper239
I came across a copy of the first book that wrote when I was in junior high (grade nine) about a year ago, read it, and immediately wanted to stab myself in the face with a broken bottle because I had actually shown it to people. There is no amount of editing or drafting that I could do to that piece of shit to make it readable by anyone with more than a grade five education. It really is a beautiful thing to see the growth in yourself, at least it was for me. Applause for your efforts, sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper239
As for the rest of it, it's really all personal taste. If you're writing it for yourself then by all means carry on. I would still consider finding another way to convey the language barrier as it shows two things to the reader: a) you are able to make me understand that the character doesn't understand the language without pushing it on me in a way that makes me think that I should understand, and b) that you don't need to rely on anything but your ability to string the language together to make me understand. It shows confidence. But! that's just the editor in me speaking.
As for the structure, I wouldn't be adverse to seeing a draft with a tighter perspective. You're doing well with the third person, falling into the diary aspect can be done so many other ways. Again, that's a personal choice. Switching perspectives can cause confusion with a reader (can, not saying is), and a confused reader is one more likely to put the book down, and go outside/online/to sleep.