This is the realm of OoC debate, the rules set within the We're Alive universe have no bearing here whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkum
Printable View
This is the realm of OoC debate, the rules set within the We're Alive universe have no bearing here whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkum
That's exactly the same as saying "Skittles got his gun from Scratch too" because we have no idea where he got his either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandem25
Maybe he found it off of a dead body. Maybe he found one left in a store (shop owner's). There are quite a few other options from which he could have aquired a gun.
I'd be hesitant of pippen just because of his affiliation with the mallers regardless of whether or not he was on good terms with them. At the same time we still don't know what Durai's plan is and for all we know, the mallers might think the tower has some good weapons and food supply for them to scrounge. Also take in that they are taking slaves and the tower has 20-30 good candidates for that aspect.
Maybe the chopper is one from the colony, such one of the last ones to leave and not come back? Maybe it's now being used as bait or trap for the zombies?
It's not quite the same. Skittles has been scrounging since it all began. We know that Pippen had a finite amount of time to get from the drop off point (and we know he was dropped off - his first obvious lie) to the tower. If he just happened to find a weapon in that short time then... I agree with you. It is possible. Not probable. But possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Sid
There's something I've been meaning to bring up about those whoa re saying Pippin got beat up so he obviously isn't working with the Mallers. There's an episode of Burn Notice where Michael Weston is about to be put in a cell with a Russian human trafficker and in order to sell his cover ID he had to be punched in the face legitimately 3 or 4 times. Because as he put it if you're going to be up close and personal with someone who needs to believe you've been beat up there's no way to get around that except to actually be punched in the face.
Just throwing that out there.
I think the main assumption we are making, in the case of Pippen, is that he was dropped off at the tower. We don't know where Scratch dropped Pippin off. It could be that he was a slave being dropped off back at the mall, having been punished for something else, and then he got away.
I am not saying that is the case. But just that we are running with the assumption that because Scratch mentioned him, he is on their side.
Certainly a possibility, but if Pippen were a slave, would Scratch refer to him by name? She seems eager to dish out the contempt, especially to those she deems to be below her. Or it could be a clever ruse by a certain writer to make us doubt Pippen the whole time...
ok, I'm staying away from the whole firefight about Pippen and the gun... I don't need a shop owner's gun hitting me in the face enough times to not be totally recognizable in a passport photo.
I think the helo is a Sikorsky S-61R, or as I I know it, a Jolly Green Giant. I had to pull the real name from wiki, but that's been put out there in a previous post.
Now the point I'm interested in for this part of the chapter is that Burt mentions MP5s. If I remember correctly, the colony had some MP5s stashed away and they were from left by the rescue party (Coast Guard?) before they abandoned what would become the colony. I tie the MP5s to the crew of the helicopter and not the attackers of the helicopter. Of course, that doesn't help figure out who/what attacked the helicopter, but it might help flesh out some more theories with a little bit of more information.
I was a little disappointed by the length, but we can't have stellar 20 + min episodes all the time :p. Still a good episode, stocked for 22 now :)
I'll touch on two things that caught my attention during the episode that have most likely been brought up multiple times already :p
1) Kalani's story has some proof! A crashed Hawaiian liner on the tarmac! I don't know if Kalani mentioned a crash landing when he told his tale, I'll have to re-listen to the older episodes, but this is some serious evidence to back up his story.
2) Pipen's story is pretty convincing. Like j0be mentioned earlier, I would almost believe it if not for Scratch's little spiel about having to "drop off Pipen".
My 2 cents :)
I don't think this has been asked yet but...
If Pippin were a mole sent to the tower by the Mallers to spy or what ever then why oh why oh why in God's name did he tell the Tower that he came from the Mallers? The only other back story that could have put the Tower on edge in the same manner would be some one telling them they came from the Colony and had supported Gatekeeper. Pippin knew that the Tower and the Mallers had squabbed. So then why would he tell them?
Because he's telling the truth. Though we've only met one so far I'm sure there are other people in the greater Los Angeles area who are going it alone. Why didn't he say "Hey, I was camping and then everything happened and now I've been living alone!" Having Scratch beat him up and then send him to the Tower to tell the Tower that Scratch had beat him up and then he'd run off seems like a ridiculous difficult way to go about planting another mole.
Disclaimer: It's 2 am here and I may ramble a bit
Ok I got another 2AM crackpot idea brewing... Sure KC might be taking liberties with the model aircraft being used but one idea that I have now is the whole Chapter title, Mark of The Beast. I know that KC likes to throw in multiple meanings into the CHapter titles. The first clear Mark of The Beast is the "5" on the Little One zombie that attacked the Maller convoy. But, going out on a limb here, what if the other Mark is the markings on the Helicopter showing it as a Coast Guard bird (it is a pretty big Aircraft if it produces an echo)?Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Saul was in the 10th Mtn Div. while they do some Air Assault missions there focus is on walking and shooting, so he might not recognize that the aircraft infront of him shouldn't have USCG markings.
Another "maybe reading to much into things" moment... I'm wondering if the USCG even uses MP5's I know with the whole M4 and the M4 with the short Upper (forgot the nomenclature) I don't know of many units that still use MP5's.
I know I'm going out on a limb, but just something that was stuck in my head. And I totaly support the writing of WA and the need to take certain liberties. But I know that from what I've seen in the previous episodes is that KC puts a premium on realism (what my Army buddies and I love about the show), Magazines are changed Belts run out and Weapons jam... just like in real life.
And if all this is just KC taking dramatic liberties I'm fine with it... it certainly got me enjoying this episode more than usual trying to pick out certain "clues" LOL
Keep up the awesome work!!
All those talking about mentioning Pippin on a first name basis, that doesn't metter, Scratch 'dropped' him off and Pippin says he 'escaped', I do have a few theories which could show that Pippin is being completely honest but I don't think that will be the case.
Going back to earlier, specifically the We're Not Dead crew, Riley and Lizzy shared an apartement together, and although we didn't hear them talk much 'on microphone' we did get a glimpse of how much they interacted and were good friends in the "sweat" episode, when Lizzy gets back from the mission and they have a small conversation.
Out of all the characters, because they lived together, I think Riley and Lizzy were probably the closest friends.
Because one guy surving that whole time with an empty gun is even more suspicious.... If he is a mole, there is probably a lot of truth in what he is saying, he's probably being blackmailed somehow by the mallers. Its a lot easier to rely on truthful memories than to make stuff up.Quote:
Originally Posted by mascaria
Love it. Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNomad
I felt this was a pretty lame thing not to ask him. I hate unanswered questions like this. It makes me wonder, "Okay, did Michael and Kelly already ask him this before we were let in on the scene or did they just not ask him at all?" Kudos for wondering Tandem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tandem25
Michael-fucking-Weston! Yeah, even if Pippin didn't agree to be hit in the face, I'm sure Scratch had no problem beating his ass up anyway. Though you have to wonder, what if Scratch's cruel treatment of her comrades might actually make someone like Pippin defect. Maybe he made up his backstory so that he could truly be part of the Tower. If he came at them with, "Scratch wants me to be a mole, just like so-and-so was, but I don't want to be. I'm scared of that crazy bitch!"Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
When I listened to this that's exactly what I thought of too. I thought that it might be possible that Lizzy is pregnant and she might be sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Daddy
I know right? A good writer (like Kc) may use fun little tidbits like this one to foreshadow an event. Or it might just be coincidence. :p But if you go back to the old chapters, you'll see things that hold relevance later on. (There's even a street they turn down in chapter 3.3 named "PAUL". Well, that might be me reaching a little too far. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Paola
I'm going to say this again:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Daddy
We're talking about criminals.. the most in'frigg'n genious folk on the planet. These are people to constantly get dope, money and other crap in and out of prison. These are people who create their own tattoo devices like Jedi making light sabers. They're the locked up version of McGyver.
Forging a passport will probably be in the skill set of at least 10 mallers.. at least.
Having said all that, non US citizens are used to maintaining their papers when outside their home country. Europeans have the ability to travel to multiple countries. France, Spain, Germany, Netherlands... are all a short flight or drive through the chunnel from the UK.
We're (Yanks) are the only ones who aren't conditioned to travel with "Papers." Mainly because we never need them. We vacation *go on Holiday* in our warm climates and do the winter thing in the...em.. wintery climates. No need to travel to Spain for sunshine when we have Miami or Phoenix.
So, lets say Pippen is a fake. His accent is a fake. He's a con man, a grifter.. per se. He's hoping no one in the Tower knows two things about a UK dialect. What's the purpose though?
Sorry but i'm gonna put on my Force Protection/Anti Terrorism Instructor Hat for a min... bare with me please:
What kind of HUMINT (Human Intelligence *gathering of intel via interpersonal contact) threat can he pose by showing up at the front door and telling them where he came from? Everyone will be on guard.
He won't make any friends and you need to get people to lower their guard in order to gather that kind of information. HUMINT's bread and butter is gathering bits and pieces of info and putting them together like a puzzle.
the Mallers are moving.
They aren't staying in the area (right???).
*unless Durai is simply expanding his territory and getting rid of the primary threat first*
Pippen's possible angles:
Sabotage: damaging equipment, poisoning rations
Espionage: think "The Rat". Clandestine reporting
Subversion: Think Hostile takeover through deception or outright violence. This is kinda what Steven was trying when he was questioning Burt's leadership. Eroding the belief in authority
So, where does Pippen fall in those categories? I'm not sure.
I'm of the belief that Pippen will be some help/value to the tower rather then hurting them.
My apologies for getting uppity and long winded.. LOL.
I'm not buying the SH-3 they just aren't big enough to get Saul and Burt that excited. And if it was an SH-3 Burt would have recognized it from his service in Vietnam. I know that you can say the same with the MH-53 but they weren't widely used in during Vietnam and then they were only used by the Air Force. The SH-3 that holds less than 20 people and the SH-92 which I suggested holds around 25 on the other hand the MH-53 holds around 50-60 people, that could have produced the echo (Never been in one myself) and show why Burt and Saul were so excited.Quote:
Originally Posted by bvglee
But like I said the USCG doesn't have the 53 so that makes me a bit suspicious (unless they have them in the WA universe). If I saw a V-22 with Army markings on it saying "we're here to help" I'd be weary (and not just because the V-22 killed more Marines than the Fedayeen).
Either way I can't wait until the 23rd
A lot of people were saying that Pippen isn't a very common name earlier so he must be lying... could be a surname. He was camping with friends - maybe Jordan and Longley survived.
Something IS fishy. IDK... Camping? Is there a lot of nice areas for camping around LA that would attract international visits? I guess so, if you're really into that sort of thing... Are there any Californians here that can shed some light on this for me?Quote:
Originally Posted by kafu288
I was thinking the same thing Rock Daddy. Is this guy Camping in East Hollywood or something LOL. I'm sure there are camping and hiking opprotunities to be had in the LA area but I wouldn't fly half way around the wold to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Daddy
The Coast Guard does have the Sikorsky S-61R which can hold 28 passengers, but I'm sure they can squeeze in more in their situation, although that does create a problem in terms of where they could store supplies for their trip. Looks like a few will be left behind, Saul and Burt are already two less, assuming they don't find Lizzy. But since the Helicopter is shot up anyway, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leedo2502
If they are so ingenious, why were they all in prison :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Hey, even Moriarty got caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kn1ckerb0cker33
The criminal mind focus's on obtaining what they want sometimes they are not all masterminds in not getting caught. Usually in a group there is one that masterminds the plan and that person's plan is for themselves to not get caught.
I can see a couple options, pippen is being blackmailed or forced to be at the Tower. One is for recon and assess their situation, two he's there to sabatoge another skirmish with the mallers!
If they are so ingenious, why were they all in prison :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Apples and Oranges. LOL..
I should have phrased that as Prisoners are in'frigg'n genious instead of criminals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrScott101
Scott,
How much physical damage can one guarded unarmed and beat up guy do?
There are actually a lot of people who come to America to camp and hike across the country. You probably aren't going camping within Los Angeles proper but there is a lot of wilderness once you get outside of the sprawl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leedo2502
Pippin did say he was camping in a canyon, or something to that effect. While I don't know a lot about the geography of Europe, never having the pleasure of going there myself, but I do know the kinds of geography in the American southwest is pretty damn different from what you're going to find in the UK and the rest of Europe. So coming here to hike and camp out in the desert is a opportunity Pippin just wouldn't have had back home...assuming he is actually from the UK, which I'm inclined to believe at least that part of his story. Its his escape story that strikes me as fishy.Quote:
Originally Posted by mascaria
just listened to chapter 18 again and noted that Victor mentioned to Pegs and Lizzy that during the early days of the outbreak, the USCG was using helicopters to rescue the people who built the colony - but after a few days they stopped coming
so maybe they were transporting them back to LAX?
That sounds about right. Transporting people from the location of the colony to LAX and onto planes to attempt an escape or relocation, but then again, where are the rest of the helicopters since they were only able to find one? Or maybe the other models were too small for what they needed and that was the only large one available. Ugh, I want the next episode already. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood & Ice Cream
Interesting thoughts and arguments as usual. I felt a bit stiffed on this episode, only because I desperately wanted to know what happened after the previous episodes cliff hanger. Those first two episodes in Chapter 21 were so damned good though, it's ok to have one that's a little more low key.
I still think Pippin is a rat bastard, for many of the reasons already argued in this thread. Hopefully I'm not just giving KC and the actor playing him too much credit, but he sounded way too angry and defensive when being questioned (as was pointed out already). If I had really been through an enormous mess like he would have, including a zombie apocalypse and being made a slave to a bunch of hardcore felons, I could sit and be questioned all day with no problem. In fact I would probably assume I had sought out a bunch of morons if they didn't question me heavily.
I think ol' Pippin must have been quite a nasty con artist and that's why he was chosen for the job. He could of been busted up prior to being dropped at the tower to mask that he doesn't exactly match the picture in the passport. Even if it is a match, it still definitely could be a fake...though I'm guessing KC was kind of steering that out of the realm of possibility with Kelly and Michael's discussion. I would get someone with at least some experience or knowledge of the U.K. (possibly Riley?) to grill him and see how much he knows about where he's supposed to be from. Another thing that steers me in that direction is that a lot of the British, "We're Alive," fans have been decrying his accent. As much care seems to have gone into choosing the cast for this show by Shane and KC, I'm not sure they would have willy nilly chosen someone to pretend to play a genuine, British character.
I know very little little about helicopters or the USCG, but my thoughts were a Chinook? That seems like it would be a good bird to transport lots of people.
Another episode....a ton more questions....can't wait for the next episode!
Didn't he take Holmes with him? Seems like a victory to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
It might have been down to who was available and who wanted to do the podcast who could do a british accent. Unfortunately, after watching many episodes of the UK versions of Top Gear, The Office, Kitchen Nightmares, etc., I have to say Pippin's accent isn't super convincing but it gets the job done, so kudos to the actor for the effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robalypse
Even Datu's accent annoyed me at times, since I'm Filipino and can recognize that accent instantly. However, like the actor (Jay Olegario) who voices Datu, I understand how difficult it can be to pull off a Filipino accent when you were raised in the states. Speaking english with a heavy Filipino accent only comes naturally to people raised there, so I commend his effort and I must say he's been getting much better.
S-61 and SH-3 are the same bird, one is a military version the other is civilianQuote:
Originally Posted by Kn1ckerb0cker33
Well aware of that, I did look at wikipedia after all ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Leedo2502
LOL Gotcha... I'm thinking that this was probably not a USCG bird KC was saying earlier in the forum that it wasnt the S-91 which the Coast Guard still uses and I'm guessing from his tone that it may be a bigger bird that's where I'm getting the MH/SH-53 idea from. KC was saying that the Nomenclature was going to be released later that the Nomenclature could be important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kn1ckerb0cker33
Since the MH/SH-53 isn't used by the Coast Guard I'm thinking that it might just be some smoke and mirrors by some bigger group (maybe who ever initiated, or accidentaly let the outbreak happen). The Coast Guard is a more benign branch of the military and noone would fret seeing a flight of helicopters painted up looking like Coast Guard birds, the same can't be said for USAF or US Army birds.
I can't say this enough I may just be reading into this but maybe there is some subterfuge with the "Coast Guard" evacuation sites and Helicopters.
He's guarded/watched. Plus they're already on high alert. He'd have to find a way to unlock his room, knock out or kill the person on duty AND find a way to call the creatures to the tower (not gonna happen since the Arena is on fire anyway).Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianHD
They have a choke point set up for a reason... so anything getting in will do minimum damage before it's contained. They have more weapons, better weapons now as well.
To add to that, no one is going to be sleeping on duty again after Lizzie Gate anyway.
I'm still having trouble finding an American made helo large enough (that isn't a Chinook) to transport 20 plus people, one dog, one cat, all of Burt's weapons/Ammo, 2 or 3 pallets of MREs, tools, misc equipment and whatever water and clothes they bring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leedo2502
They could rig a pallet under the bird or birds but the newbie pilot wouldn't know how to compensate for the weight shifting during flight.