Chapter 21- "Mark of the Beast" - Part 3

[mascaria]

I don't think this has been asked yet but...

If Pippin were a mole sent to the tower by the Mallers to spy or what ever then why oh why oh why in God's name did he tell the Tower that he came from the Mallers? The only other back story that could have put the Tower on edge in the same manner would be some one telling them they came from the Colony and had supported Gatekeeper. Pippin knew that the Tower and the Mallers had squabbed. So then why would he tell them?

Because he's telling the truth. Though we've only met one so far I'm sure there are other people in the greater Los Angeles area who are going it alone. Why didn't he say "Hey, I was camping and then everything happened and now I've been living alone!" Having Scratch beat him up and then send him to the Tower to tell the Tower that Scratch had beat him up and then he'd run off seems like a ridiculous difficult way to go about planting another mole.

[Leedo2502]

Disclaimer: It's 2 am here and I may ramble a bit

It is an interesting point and one not too many people would be able to readily make. Now, could it be for dramatic effect? Sure, writers always have free license to create what ever reality that they want.

But that might be an explanation as to why that chopper is riddled with bullet holes and why mp5 casings are on the ground. If the dolled up Military chopper to look like USCG was used to disperse whatever started this whole mess that could be a good enough reason to start a fire fight with anyone. And mp5's I know are used by law enforcement in some cities....I just don't know what the LAPD 's weapon of choice is.

However, I think it's best to speculate more once Kc reveals the exact model of helicopter it was as he said he would. But I'd certainly stick a flag in this theory in case it holds water. Then you get to say I told you so to many a peeps if they come to fight you on it.

Ok I got another 2AM crackpot idea brewing... Sure KC might be taking liberties with the model aircraft being used but one idea that I have now is the whole Chapter title, Mark of The Beast. I know that KC likes to throw in multiple meanings into the CHapter titles. The first clear Mark of The Beast is the "5" on the Little One zombie that attacked the Maller convoy. But, going out on a limb here, what if the other Mark is the markings on the Helicopter showing it as a Coast Guard bird (it is a pretty big Aircraft if it produces an echo)?
Saul was in the 10th Mtn Div. while they do some Air Assault missions there focus is on walking and shooting, so he might not recognize that the aircraft infront of him shouldn't have USCG markings.
Another "maybe reading to much into things" moment... I'm wondering if the USCG even uses MP5's I know with the whole M4 and the M4 with the short Upper (forgot the nomenclature) I don't know of many units that still use MP5's.

I know I'm going out on a limb, but just something that was stuck in my head. And I totaly support the writing of WA and the need to take certain liberties. But I know that from what I've seen in the previous episodes is that KC puts a premium on realism (what my Army buddies and I love about the show), Magazines are changed Belts run out and Weapons jam... just like in real life.
And if all this is just KC taking dramatic liberties I'm fine with it... it certainly got me enjoying this episode more than usual trying to pick out certain "clues" LOL

Keep up the awesome work!!

[Cutting-T]

All those talking about mentioning Pippin on a first name basis, that doesn't metter, Scratch 'dropped' him off and Pippin says he 'escaped', I do have a few theories which could show that Pippin is being completely honest but I don't think that will be the case.

Going back to earlier, specifically the We're Not Dead crew, Riley and Lizzy shared an apartement together, and although we didn't hear them talk much 'on microphone' we did get a glimpse of how much they interacted and were good friends in the "sweat" episode, when Lizzy gets back from the mission and they have a small conversation.

Out of all the characters, because they lived together, I think Riley and Lizzy were probably the closest friends.

I don't think this has been asked yet but...

If Pippin were a mole sent to the tower by the Mallers to spy or what ever then why oh why oh why in God's name did he tell the Tower that he came from the Mallers? The only other back story that could have put the Tower on edge in the same manner would be some one telling them they came from the Colony and had supported Gatekeeper. Pippin knew that the Tower and the Mallers had squabbed. So then why would he tell them?

Because he's telling the truth. Though we've only met one so far I'm sure there are other people in the greater Los Angeles area who are going it alone. Why didn't he say "Hey, I was camping and then everything happened and now I've been living alone!" Having Scratch beat him up and then send him to the Tower to tell the Tower that Scratch had beat him up and then he'd run off seems like a ridiculous difficult way to go about planting another mole.

Because one guy surving that whole time with an empty gun is even more suspicious.... If he is a mole, there is probably a lot of truth in what he is saying, he's probably being blackmailed somehow by the mallers. Its a lot easier to rely on truthful memories than to make stuff up.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Blood isn't gonna just wash away with rain. Have you ever tried to clean up blood? You need cleaning supplies for that..

Love it. Thank you!

At about 2:50 douchebag err Pippin gives his account of his "getaway". He makes no mention of getting a gun. Where did his gun come from?
Answer: Scratch. When she dropped him off to infiltrate the tower.

I felt this was a pretty lame thing not to ask him. I hate unanswered questions like this. It makes me wonder, "Okay, did Michael and Kelly already ask him this before we were let in on the scene or did they just not ask him at all?" Kudos for wondering Tandem.

There's something I've been meaning to bring up about those whoa re saying Pippin got beat up so he obviously isn't working with the Mallers. There's an episode of Burn Notice where Michael Weston is about to be put in a cell with a Russian human trafficker and in order to sell his cover ID he had to be punched in the face legitimately 3 or 4 times. Because as he put it if you're going to be up close and personal with someone who needs to believe you've been beat up there's no way to get around that except to actually be punched in the face.

Just throwing that out there.

Michael-fucking-Weston! Yeah, even if Pippin didn't agree to be hit in the face, I'm sure Scratch had no problem beating his ass up anyway. Though you have to wonder, what if Scratch's cruel treatment of her comrades might actually make someone like Pippin defect. Maybe he made up his backstory so that he could truly be part of the Tower. If he came at them with, "Scratch wants me to be a mole, just like so-and-so was, but I don't want to be. I'm scared of that crazy bitch!"

[Paola]

Did anyone else think about the airplane jokes that were chosen? The abortion skit? Do you think it's a little hint, or foreshadowing of someone's pregnancy? or maybe a tragedy that will befall a beloved character after she learns she is pregnant? (For example in the style of the movie Seven) This would mean right after Saul discovers Lizzy is preggers, one of them dies... Hope not...

When I listened to this that's exactly what I thought of too. I thought that it might be possible that Lizzy is pregnant and she might be sick.

[Rock Daddy]

When I listened to this that's exactly what I thought of too. I thought that it might be possible that Lizzy is pregnant and she might be sick.

I know right? A good writer (like Kc) may use fun little tidbits like this one to foreshadow an event. Or it might just be coincidence. But if you go back to the old chapters, you'll see things that hold relevance later on. (There's even a street they turn down in chapter 3.3 named "PAUL". Well, that might be me reaching a little too far.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Good call Voodoo. Maybe the Mallers beat the shit out of his face because he didn't look exactly like the passport, and they didn't want the tower to catch on!

I'm going to say this again:
We're talking about criminals.. the most in'frigg'n genious folk on the planet. These are people to constantly get dope, money and other crap in and out of prison. These are people who create their own tattoo devices like Jedi making light sabers. They're the locked up version of McGyver.
Forging a passport will probably be in the skill set of at least 10 mallers.. at least.

Having said all that, non US citizens are used to maintaining their papers when outside their home country. Europeans have the ability to travel to multiple countries. France, Spain, Germany, Netherlands... are all a short flight or drive through the chunnel from the UK.
We're (Yanks) are the only ones who aren't conditioned to travel with "Papers." Mainly because we never need them. We vacation *go on Holiday* in our warm climates and do the winter thing in the...em.. wintery climates. No need to travel to Spain for sunshine when we have Miami or Phoenix.

So, lets say Pippen is a fake. His accent is a fake. He's a con man, a grifter.. per se. He's hoping no one in the Tower knows two things about a UK dialect. What's the purpose though?

Sorry but i'm gonna put on my Force Protection/Anti Terrorism Instructor Hat for a min... bare with me please:
What kind of HUMINT (Human Intelligence *gathering of intel via interpersonal contact) threat can he pose by showing up at the front door and telling them where he came from? Everyone will be on guard.
He won't make any friends and you need to get people to lower their guard in order to gather that kind of information. HUMINT's bread and butter is gathering bits and pieces of info and putting them together like a puzzle.
the Mallers are moving.
They aren't staying in the area (right???).

*unless Durai is simply expanding his territory and getting rid of the primary threat first*

Pippen's possible angles:
Sabotage: damaging equipment, poisoning rations
Espionage: think "The Rat". Clandestine reporting
Subversion: Think Hostile takeover through deception or outright violence. This is kinda what Steven was trying when he was questioning Burt's leadership. Eroding the belief in authority

So, where does Pippen fall in those categories? I'm not sure.
I'm of the belief that Pippen will be some help/value to the tower rather then hurting them.

My apologies for getting uppity and long winded.. LOL.

[Leedo2502]

As for the chopper I think its a HH-3F Pelican pressed back into service diring the crisis, http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...raft/hh-3f.htm, (Its from the S-61 family like the USAF Jolly Green Giant, the USN Sea King and USMC Marine One), Its huge, its amphibious and was the USCG specific version, until replaced by the Jayhawk in the 90's (the USGC version of the S-70, like the Army Blackhawk and Navy Seahawk, which are smaller and Saul could have recognized). And yes it could also be a CG Jolly Green Giant, because some USAF surplus were bought by the USCG.

I'm not buying the SH-3 they just aren't big enough to get Saul and Burt that excited. And if it was an SH-3 Burt would have recognized it from his service in Vietnam. I know that you can say the same with the MH-53 but they weren't widely used in during Vietnam and then they were only used by the Air Force. The SH-3 that holds less than 20 people and the SH-92 which I suggested holds around 25 on the other hand the MH-53 holds around 50-60 people, that could have produced the echo (Never been in one myself) and show why Burt and Saul were so excited.

But like I said the USCG doesn't have the 53 so that makes me a bit suspicious (unless they have them in the WA universe). If I saw a V-22 with Army markings on it saying "we're here to help" I'd be weary (and not just because the V-22 killed more Marines than the Fedayeen).

Either way I can't wait until the 23rd

[kafu288]

A lot of people were saying that Pippen isn't a very common name earlier so he must be lying... could be a surname. He was camping with friends - maybe Jordan and Longley survived.

[Rock Daddy]

A lot of people were saying that Pippen isn't a very common name earlier so he must be lying... could be a surname. He was camping with friends - maybe Jordan and Longley survived.

Something IS fishy. IDK... Camping? Is there a lot of nice areas for camping around LA that would attract international visits? I guess so, if you're really into that sort of thing... Are there any Californians here that can shed some light on this for me?