Chapter 24 discussion- "The Harder They Fall"

[AdrianHD]

I thought the same thing. Also if Kalani was from the other tower too why does hope never recognize him or acknowledge the fact that he knew him from that tower? Maybe he just stole Samantha's story about the other tower. Thats why when ever they asked him where the other tower was he couldnt find it on any maps or remember where it was. Not that i dont like Kalani labeling him as a rat but i know from this chapter if he was the rat its not because he wanted to be its because he was forced to be in order to keep hannah alive. And he must have killed pippin to keep the mallers from finding out anything else.

Wasn't Kalani remembered by Hope or something? I forget.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm curious to know who this other hostage was that Scratch referred to when she told Angel, "We'll give them both back to you." I'm thinking it could be someone they've had for a long time now forcing someone within the tower to be the rat. Could be Kalani's Hannah, or I dunno, Kelly's sister? Maybe it was that gall that got blasted on the golf course. At least this clears up that famous conversation between Tardust and Scratch back at the furniture store. When Tardust was asked, "What about the other one?" Scratch replies, "We still have her." Her, Hannah maybe?

Although I've been saying that Burt's death was coming, I actually don't believe he's dead. He had some moments of narration, the bit about his hands growing steady and then starts blasting Maller melons left and right. So if he was narrating can we assume he later had time to tell his story to someone, or maybe write it down in a journal? I dunno, his death seemed to casual. Sure it is realistic in that no one is safe but this is Burt! He was supposed to go down in a blaze of glory, not the blaze of a fuel truck five stories below!

So I'm a Saul fan boy, but I must say, I'm quite disappointed in the guy. Although I admire his love driven quest to rescue Lizzie, I hate it that he was blind to the dangers ahead. If you want to place blame, you could say that Saul's idea caused the death of nearly every tower member! On the same hand you have to give credit to Scratch for out smarting three soldiers. I'm convinced she has some sort of military training. Maybe like some disciplinary bootcamp type stuff.

So Angel finding Kalani's journal is kind of a big deal in that I thought everyone had turned in thier journals to Tanya. Why was he hiding his? Or was this a "true" journal in that he kept a false one and a real one should he ever wish to clear his conscience? But I'm not completely convinced that Kalani could have been the mole. If the mole and the Pippin shooter are indeed the same person, then it seems like it would have been next to impossible for Kalani to shoot Pippin.

Dang it KC! I know the peices are there. I just can't put the picture together yet.

[AllanR]

Scratch's maneuver at the golf course was classic Sun Tzu strategy. She is starting to become my favorite character on the show.

I'm also not so convinced that Kalani is dead at this point. When Scratch and Bricks are walking around the rubble, it sounds as though they are walking on thin sheets of metal, similar to that of a helicopter. Since the Wiki lists him as deceased, I guess he really is deceased. If he did survive, then Angel will be the wildcard here. Since everyone is convinced that he's dead, I could see him shadowing the Mallers and maturing as a more formidable character.

[nrtv20]

Has someone mentioned that Michael screwed up the Pippin assassination timeline? And that he said he and Angel were together when it happened and Angel didn't correct him?

But that's not exactly how it went down.....fishy fishy fishy....best part of it being fishy? Red herrings are also fishy....so that's interesting.

I believe he was referencing Episode (1); implying Angel has always been with the Tower and no time to be associated with the Mallers.

[nikvoodoo]

I believe he was referencing Episode (1); implying Angel has always been with the Tower and no time to be associated with the Mallers.

Burt was referencing the Killer of Pippin (24 ~33:50-34:10 mark) and that maybe he was looking at the killer right now instead of Lewis who was locked up below. Michael says "No there's no way. Angel was with me when it happened. Right, Angel?" and Angel replies "Exactly."

As we've had time trial discussions trying to figure out who was available to murder Pippin (who did and did not have enough time to pull the trigger), I found it interesting that despite knowing there's 12-15 seconds Angel is unaccounted for Michael claims they were in the same location.

[VeritableHero]

Tried to read through all of the posts but I might have missed this. Here are my two thoughts:

1. Kalani could have found out that the girl from the golf course "was his Hannah" on his way to pick up Micheal & Co. near the golf course. He was alone in the chopper on the way to the rendezvous point, right? He had a radio up there with him.

2. Hope says "That's a long way" when either talking about the drop from the room or the trip via zip-line to the other building. Does that mean that she can actually see? Does that mean that her blindness was temporary and more trauma caused it to return? Does that mean she's been faking it all along?

More thoughts coming later.

[GChild78]

I don't know if someone has thought of this before ( I scanned through the previous postings briefly) and I don't know much about helicopters, but...do they have a black box? If so, would it also include a cockpit voice recorder? Could that be what Scratch was looking fo

[wh33t]

I'm curious to know who this other hostage was that Scratch referred to when she told Angel, "We'll give them both back to you." I'm thinking it could be someone they've had for a long time now forcing someone within the tower to be the rat. Could be Kalani's Hannah, or I dunno, Kelly's sister? Maybe it was that gall that got blasted on the golf course. At least this clears up that famous conversation between Tardust and Scratch back at the furniture store. When Tardust was asked, "What about the other one?" Scratch replies, "We still have her." Her, Hannah maybe?

Omg, I totally forgot about that. It's definitely sounding like they had another female to use as leverage.

So I'm a Saul fan boy, but I must say, I'm quite disappointed in the guy. Although I admire his love driven quest to rescue Lizzie, I hate it that he was blind to the dangers ahead. If you want to place blame, you could say that Saul's idea caused the death of nearly every tower member! On the same hand you have to give credit to Scratch for out smarting three soldiers. I'm convinced she has some sort of military training. Maybe like some disciplinary bootcamp type stuff.

I'm a Saul fan boy as well, I'd like to think I would have done the exact same thing. No one else at the Tower was taking the Lizzy search seriously. I think if blame is going to be pointed at any one specific person, it goes to Michael and his list of militant rules that Burt was destined to follow. But all in all, in a Zombie Apocalypse you probably just gotta let some shit slide, it's a crazy situation lol.

[wh33t]

I don't know if someone has thought of this before ( I scanned through the previous postings briefly) and I don't know much about helicopters, but...do they have a black box? If so, would it also include a cockpit voice recorder? Could that be what Scratch was looking fo

Interesting idea! Although I'm not sure 'anyone' can simple crack open a black box and start recovering data from it. Isn't it some kind of on board computer that needs to be connected to some other kind of machine to retrieve the data?

[nikvoodoo]

I don't know if someone has thought of this before ( I scanned through the previous postings briefly) and I don't know much about helicopters, but...do they have a black box? If so, would it also include a cockpit voice recorder? Could that be what Scratch was looking fo

From what I can find in general helicopters are not required to carry a Flight Data Recorder, or a Voice Data Recorder (collectively they are the Black boxes). Medical helicopters specifically are noted to not carry the VDR, and Kalani crashed the medical chopper into the tanker. But even if they did find a data recorder in the wreckage, w33t is correct. You need the right equipment in order to analyze the data....of course we know LAX is basically uninhabited.They could try to find it there, but I'd imagine it's only helpful if you knew what to look for.

Ultimately, what do the black boxes even accomplish for the Mallers? They know the helicopter was purposefully flown into their bomb so you don't need the data recorder for that. And Kalani was using the CB so the Mallers would be able to hear what was said anyway (Bricks was monitoring the radio at one point).