Chapter 45-3: Distorted Truths

[Grognaurd]

I have sympathy for Scratch, but I don't see any hope for her redemption. Leaving aside Burt, and the murder of various Mallers, the worst things on Scratch's slate are the ones that were only hinted at. The treatment of the Maller's "slaves". What happened to the Colonists under Maller rule. The short, and probably horrific life of Kalani's daughter, Hannah, from the time she was captured to the day she was executed to provide a "distraction".

Definitely a sociopath.

It is important to remember that even before the Zompacalypse, Scratch had done enough "evil" for her brother to believe she would be on death row if he had not taken the wrap for the crime. Further, Latch was held in a Federal prison. Federal death row is on par with Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City bombing. Pretty heavy stuff. Pretty evil, unless there is some major plot device twist that she blew up a secret Raydon Labs manufacturing facility that postponed the outbreak a few years...

Maybe I did not run out of after all. But, this one is a full body suit...

[Grognaurd]

Wow, just wow. Scratch seems to be responsible for the tankers. She lost one and has to scramble to get it back. She tries to intimidate Burt etal. This fails. Do not blame this on Burt. He shoots the mirror. That defuses the situation. Period. He could have just as easily shot Scratch! He could do so before she has time to react. Mean while, Latch had put his gun down and was talking to Saul. Hell, even if Latch had a gun, Burt could kill both before they could react.

[Litmaster]

so...why do I feel the need to tell the two dudes who are supposed to be "leaders" on the forum to chill the fuck out? for reals

this was fun for a bit...but its devolving into a pissing match.

What? Pissing match?! I was just having fun! We rarely ever have the opportunity to get in a good old argument on this forum, I was just seizing the opportunity. I'm not upset in the slightest.

I'm actually quite entertained by Osiris's slavish devotion to his girl.

And Osi, just to show you I'm not a total stubborn ass, I will go back and re-listen to that episode. If you are correct, I'll give you due credit.

[LiamKerrington]

We're talking about Riley using torture versus Scratch using torture. Perceived evils. Motivations for characters. You're arguing something I'm not. Can't have a discussion without you telling me I'm wrong about everything because one character is clearly more evil than another. That's a stupid approach to a conversation. I'm saying they're the same act. You're saying something completely irrelevant, and seem butthurt that I'm not just saying, "Oh, lord you are totally right!" Your own words state that you are assuming character intent based on how you perceive their actions throughout the story. How is that incorrect? They are YOUR OWN WORDS. I didn't put them in your mouth.

Just for the record: At no point I spoke in favor of Riley torturing Tardust. Obviously our mud-wrestling about Scratch and Kalani has made you miss this very specific point. I am sorry; my walls of words must have blurred this very important "fact" about my opinion on things.
To be crystal clear: I don't appreciate, like, enjoy, look forward to it that Riley might or will torture Tardust or whomever. The opposite is true, because I see no justification or excuse or exculpation for torture - no matter how dark this story may be. And I also don't see how the bitterness, revenge, self-pitty of Riley or anyone could be considered as solid and valid motivations to act like that.* I would not want to relate this (too likely) failing of Riley to the failings of Scratch, because either way: failings are wrong.
edit: Aside from that: I started this argument because I did not feel comfortable with being treated like "all" WA fans willing to accept Riley torturing Tardust, because I think besides me there are some (many) other WA fans raising doubts about such an action. But this, too, was drowned in this long, rich, challenging discussion. /edit

Best wishes!
Liam

*
- I implied it here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...6306#post76306
- I would regret her torturing Tardust here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...6350#post76350
- I am explicit about this here at the very beginning of our argument: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...6372#post76372
- And my opinion about Riley's general current behaviour shines through this posting: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...6432#post76432
There you go. You won't find me banalizing, accepting or welcoming the foreshadowed torture by Riley.

[Osiris]

jus' makin a point, bro.

his maller name could have easily been "plot device", that's entirely true. the point being, in the moment riley steps back into the room shouting.. who is the sympathetic character? most peoples perception leans towards riley, but certain people (myself included) felt for the situation tar is in. that has little to do with liking the character, finding him interesting, etc. its more how you perceive the situation and the characters involved.. now that I really think about it, this entire scene is probably more about burt than either of these two characters, or at least it should be. perhaps his conflict with being on the other end of the torture should have been a bit more pronounced. not sure if that's on scott, or kc. (insert blaire blame here)

The sympathetic character becomes Burt. He's about to be faced with the very treatment that left him crippled, and vulnerable. Now he's being forced to relive it through the actions of someone he cares deeply for. Tardust is a rapist, and a designer drug maker, there's no sympathy there. I don't think you can blame anything on performance or direction here. So far, most internal struggle for each character has been shared through expository journal entries, so there's still time to get into that with Burt. Scott's performance seemed subtle in its nuances. He's dealing with a lot right now, but it seems unnecessary to have two characters both losing their shit, being large, and reactive in the same scene. It would simply be too much. I won't blame Blaire for it either. She gets enough shit from you jerks.

It's not your fault, Blaire.

[Osiris]

Wow, just wow. Scratch seems to be responsible for the tankers. She lost one and has to scramble to get it back. She tries to intimidate Burt [etal]. This fails. Do not blame this on Burt. He shoots the mirror. That defuses the situation. Period. He could have just as easily shot Scratch! He could do so before she has time to react. Mean while, Latch had put his gun down and was talking to Saul. Hell, even if Latch had a gun, Burt could kill both before they could react.

You don't seem to know what it means to defuse a situation. It means to make a situation less dangerous, embarrassing, or tense. Burt did none of these things. So, no. He did not. In fact, he failed on an order of magnitude not fully realized until Scratch burns his home to the ground. He actually creates a far worse situation, and yes, all of what I said is true about the escalation of the situation, and how Burt's exacerbation of it all proves to be a direct cause to events that follow. You don't need to believe me, you can listen to the tape.


But your Burt love is commendable.



p.s. (no intent to be with the following) Etal is a village in Northumberland, England. Et al. is an abbreviation of et alii (et alia [fem]) meaning: and others--which is what I believe you were going for, hence the correction.

[DaTank]

i don't know if anybody has said, but the fact Skittles is walking right pass them reminds me of the World War Z movie where some of the people who were already sick, but they never changed.

[Osiris]

Just for the record: At no point I spoke in favor of Riley torturing Tardust. Obviously our mud-wrestling about Scratch and Kalani has made you miss this very specific point. I am sorry; my walls of words must have blurred this very important "fact" about my opinion on things.
To be crystal clear: I don't appreciate, like, enjoy, look forward to it that Riley might or will torture Tardust or whomever. The opposite is true, because I see no justification or excuse or exculpation for torture - no matter how dark this story may be. And I also don't see how the bitterness, revenge, self-pitty of Riley or anyone could be considered as solid and valid motivations to act like that.* I would not want to relate this (too likely) failing of Riley to the failings of Scratch, because either way: failings are wrong.
edit: Aside from that: I started this argument because I did not feel comfortable with being treated like "all" WA fans willing to accept Riley torturing Tardust, because I think besides me there are some (many) other WA fans raising doubts about such an action. But this, too, was drowned in this long, rich, challenging discussion. /edit

Best wishes!
Liam

*
- I implied it here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...6306#post76306
- I would regret her torturing Tardust here: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...6350#post76350
- I am explicit about this here at the very beginning of our argument: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...6372#post76372
- And my opinion about Riley's general current behaviour shines through this posting: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...6432#post76432
There you go. You won't find me banalizing, accepting or welcoming the foreshadowed torture by Riley.

Jesus Christ, bro. I thought you were done. I've already stated it was a broad generalization. My main point in that was your justification of actions were being based off your interpretation of a character's intent. I got that from how you worded your statement, I went as far as highlighting the language in your statement to show you how and why I came to that conclusion. But that's not the issue any longer. Now you just want to argue. Good for you! Here's a cookie.



Not to be dismissive of your feelings on the matter, I'll concede you have strong distaste for the violence in the story.

[LiamKerrington]

Dear Osiris,

I could not resist and simply hat to clarify things. Am not looking for more arguments.

8376(WTFShots.com).jpg

Best wishes!
Liam

[Osiris]

Dear Osiris,

I could not resist and simply hat to clarify things. Am not looking for more arguments.

8376(WTFShots.com).jpg

Best wishes!
Liam

Clarification isn't necessary. The facts are the facts, whether or not you and I agree on them is irrelevant. Answering the question is relevant... so answer the questions.