Chapter 26- "Who Overcomes" Part 1

[Pikepaw]

My first thought when the Private recognized the serial number of the Green Rooster was that he had a buddy on the chopper. But I do like the theory that they were on the lookout for the serial number for some reason or another. Deserters, disguised spec ops unit, a group of scientists, who knows? Also Leedo yeah the suppressed MP5 is suspicious. There is no good reason for coast guard chopper pilots or the coast at all to have suppressed weapons for standard operations. If I remember correctly, California is one of many states where suppressors are illegal. So where the hell did that come from?

I think we need to question why the the bodies were left behind. I believe the hospital is the new arena, so the Z's have somewhere to bring the corpses to. But according to Scratch in the after the credits scene, most of the zombies ran off after the tower collapsed. But that was several hours ago. To me it seems that there was a good chunk of time for the zombies to come back and collect. Also they didn't even take Steven and crew from the car, who I thought were torn up by zombies. Was I wrong in how I interpreted that scene in chapter 24? Are the zombies up to something else? Is there some other secret about them? Is it as simple that they were scared off by the tower collapse and the Mallers searching the area in force? I am trying to come up with a reason but I can't. Maybe it is like the early chapters where the zombies took a few days to collect the dead. Maybe they are comfortable right now, thus not desperate to gather food. If they are comfortable then things are going their way...
Last theory on this is that maybe the biters take longer to come and collect when there is a large number of bodies...but they cleaned up the arena explosion relatively quickly...

[Paolo912]

Greetings Ra1th and Nick!
I started listening to WA in the middle of chapter 16.
Since then i've listened to the entire series more than 8 times. And yes i am dead serious. When each episode comes out i listen to it 6-7 times in a row.
And yes i do have a life
While i Nick's theory is excellent, I see 1 flaw. they were as close to angel as possible and the RPG hit the edge of the roof(abouts), this would be feet from Angel. They can clearly see him "There! There he is!"-Michael even through the smoke. I think that the wording of KC "I could no longer see Angel" is obvious that he didn't die but i doubt that he had time in the span of a single second that the RPG took to reach the tower to dive into the stairwell.
Sorry if i'm Being stubborn, None of my friends that do listen (and they are few) are devoted enough to have any actual theories.
At some point in this season i might see if i can find the time and motivation to pester Britt and get on WND.

Sorry ra1th, They see him before the Rocket hits, then he is gone after.

This thought just popped into my head; Scratch says she found what she was looking for right next to the person that was messed up.
What if Angel didn't grab everything from the desk, maybe there was something in the other drawer.Also, Unless he put it back at some point during chapter 24,Kalani couldn't have placed the Suppressed pistol (no, it's suppressed not silenced), so its not what Scratch found.The desk may have broken apart or something when it fell. He probably fell into Bills apartment.
Thoughts?

[looney]

I want to dispel the myth that an RPG will seriously injure your if it hits a wall with you on the other side. An RPG hit the wall I was against in 2004, went off, and all I got was a headache. This was middle eastern construction which is not the best. Now I'm not saying there is no way an RPG is going to hurt or kill you if it hits the same wall you're on, but I know that it's survivable and in my case only caused a little headache.

[nikvoodoo]

Greetings Ra1th and Nick!
I started listening to WA in the middle of chapter 16.
Since then i've listened to the entire series more than 8 times. And yes i am dead serious. When each episode comes out i listen to it 6-7 times in a row.
And yes i do have a life
While i Nick's theory is excellent, I see 1 flaw. they were as close to angel as possible and the RPG hit the edge of the roof(abouts), this would be feet from Angel. They can clearly see him "There! There he is!"-Michael even through the smoke. I think that the wording of KC "I could no longer see Angel" is obvious that he didn't die but i doubt that he had time in the span of a single second that the RPG took to reach the tower to dive into the stairwell.
Sorry if i'm Being stubborn, None of my friends that do listen (and they are few) are devoted enough to have any actual theories.
At some point in this season i might see if i can find the time and motivation to pester Britt and get on WND.

Sorry ra1th, They see him before the Rocket hits, then he is gone after.

This thought just popped into my head; Scratch says she found what she was looking for right next to the person that was messed up.
What if Angel didn't grab everything from the desk, maybe there was something in the other drawer.Also, Unless he put it back at some point during chapter 24,Kalani couldn't have placed the Suppressed pistol (no, it's suppressed not silenced), so its not what Scratch found.The desk may have broken apart or something when it fell. He probably fell into Bills apartment.
Thoughts?

Where are you getting they were as close as possible to Angel? They were as close as Pegs could physically get in the updraft of Kalani's fire, but that doesn't mean she was close enough to the roof that they were just feet away from each other.

I realize that in real time, an RPG flies damn fast. But Kelly had enough time to ID the puff of smoke and about 4-5 seconds later the RPG hits the Tower (again, "near the top" not at the top). Near the top could be anywhere from floors 12-Roof IMO. Take a listen to the section again using my theory as a basis and see if you're able to piece the sequence together that way. I just did using yours (and maybe its because I'm far too set in my ways) but it became more of a "error/omission" to me than how it happened....like you were trying to give an explanation as to how he could survive despite having an RPG explode at his feet. I may be missing some of your finer points as I'm typing this sentence with my eyes closed....

And it's good to be stubborn. you'll fit right in 'round here. I'm generally here to poke holes in theories so people have to think harder. Except for Ra1th and his Angel love.....That's just sport.......or trolling...depends on your POV.

[Paolo912]

Where are you getting they were as close as possible to Angel? They were as close as Pegs could physically get in the updraft of Kalani's fire, but that doesn't mean she was close enough to the roof that they were just feet away from each other.

I realize that in real time, an RPG flies damn fast. But Kelly had enough time to ID the puff of smoke and about 4-5 seconds later the RPG hits the Tower (again, "near the top" not at the top). Near the top could be anywhere from floors 12-Roof IMO. Take a listen to the section again using my theory as a basis and see if you're able to piece the sequence together that way. I just did using yours (and maybe its because I'm far too set in my ways) but it became more of a "error/omission" to me than how it happened....like you were trying to give an explanation as to how he could survive despite having an RPG explode at his feet. I may be missing some of your finer points as I'm typing this sentence with my eyes closed....

And it's good to be stubborn. you'll fit right in 'round here. I'm generally here to poke holes in theories so people have to think harder. Except for Ra1th and his Angel love.....That's just sport.......or trolling...depends on your POV.

I love getting other opinions.
I assume that the RPG hit near the roof because the rocketeer was aiming for the chopper, unless he was way off and didn't account for the drop of the rocket, it would probably hit very high. I'm not saying this is some kind of magical rocket sniper who can hit a target from 300 feet away, but close is close enough when you're dealing with explosives right?

While I'm going to stick with my theory, yours is sound. I guess we just have to wait and see what cards KC deals us. Worst comes to worst we can always just settle our differences by having a thunderdome fight. 2 men go in, 1 man comes out.

[clem131]

There was a general strike in Belgium on monday, so I worked from home. This means that yesteday (tuesday) my brain was wired like it was a monday. So, there was a funny couple of moments at 4 pm when I realized, in sequence:
1) oh look, the new WA is out. Cool, it's usually at 6 pm; 2) Let's go to the forums and thank KC for the early release; 3) Wait, 5 pages on the thread of the new episode which came out early?! That's str... 4) FFFFFUUUUUUUUU IT'S TUESDAY!!! I could have listened to it yesterday!! 5) ARGH! At least 2 more hours before I leave work and I can listen to it!! Damn! 6) Well, the bright side is: one day less to wait for the next episode.
KC, stop messing with my mind.
About the helicopter serial number, I'd go with the rescue option. They took off from the rescue points and brought people to Irwin, and that particular bird was lost to the zombies.

[Adventureless_Hero]

I'm of the opinion that Angel did not get obliterated by the RPG. Perhaps he was knocked unconcious by it and thereby forced to ride the rubble as the tower collapsed. I don't think it is impossible for him to survive the tower collapse, especially if he was on the top floor and could stay above the debris. At the close of chapter 24, after the credits, it sounds like Scratch and Bricks find someone (a lot of us are assuming Angel). When they see this person, even Scratch is taken aback at the shape he is in. My conclusion: Angel is alive, barely. He currently exists in a state between Blonde Pretty Boy and Meatwad from ATHF.

[Grognaurd]

I hate to debunk all the hopefuls, and before you all hop aboard the Rage train and say I just don't like angel, I love Angel.
When the JGG (Jolly Green Giant) flew up towards the roof of the tower after the line snapped, They were trying to figure out a way to pick up angel.
Had they had time they could have done 2 things:
1)Gotten close and opened the door letting him get pulled in
2) Gotten as low as they could and have him grab on to the bottom of the chopper like the Zombie did.

While I do believe he is a alive for the Story's sake, There is on major thing that takes away from that hope. The last time they see angel is when they are trying to pick him up from the roof. Seconds later the last RPG sails past and hits the roof. If logic serves correctly; The chopper was as close to Angel as possible and this is the Same side of the roof as the Slack Zipline. I made a thread asking how much damage an RPG would do to a concrete wall with a person behind it.
he general response was the person would be Obliterated. Even if he did survive the blast there is 0 chance that he rappelled down for 2 reasons:
1)he is badly injured, Regardless of how much damage he took from the blast, he was most definitely thrown backwards into Bills New skylight.
2)The Blast most definitely broke the rope at the top of the tower. A small explosion wouldn't have done it. Bu this blast was large enough to be the Tipping point for the tower. Literally.
I think he is Alive. But he did not Rappelle down. Not a chance in hell.

Mostly good points. What you propose could be done by a pilot specialist. Not someone who read a book, a couple of hours classroom and one or two hours actual stick-time on a different helicopter that is usually flown by a crew of 3. Add smoke visibility problems and disrupted wind patterns of a fire and a building and I do not see any Matrix-style rescues.

I am sill in favor of the repelliing option. The Mallers attacked from the north. The rescue building was to the south. If just the south side is collapsed ala Oklahoma City. Rather than a twin Tower collapse I can see Angel getting away by repelling down the southside but something went wrong.

Placement:

North

Maller sub-tower

Tanker / Chopper wreckage


The Tower's collapsed northface rubble all over the Tower's Tanker, unless they moved it between June and August
The Tower with East and West mostly in tact? Not sure.
Towers Intact south side
Angel

Burt
Rescue sub-tower

South
--------------------------------------------

In this model, Burt will be found first because he is furthest away from tower. When dust and smoke settle down, Angel is found.

Scratch says she found what she was looking for (Angel? people have speculated they have a past)
Scratch says put him back with the old M a/e n. I do not know if it was singular or plural

I do not think Scratch would say the save thing for a mostly dead Burt. Then again, all of this is speclation and I could say that "Shirely" is what Scratch was looking for.

But, what still bugs me is... How did the line break? All the destruction seems to be on the north side. So, I can accept the rope burning with some disbelief. But, the same amount of effort can lean me towards it was cut.

The Rope line is pretty high in the air. The air around the fire may be hot. But its heat capacity and conductive suck. If the rope is 10's of feet off the ground it would just laugh at the fire down there.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

[/ATTACH]

I want to dispel the myth that an RPG will seriously injure your if it hits a wall with you on the other side. An RPG hit the wall I was against in 2004, went off, and all I got was a headache. This was middle eastern construction which is not the best. Now I'm not saying there is no way an RPG is going to hurt or kill you if it hits the same wall you're on, but I know that it's survivable and in my case only caused a little headache.

Fk'n Aye Looney! Glad you made it brother.

KC, I think most of us said that they couldn't hang on the the skids (since there were no such thing on the JGG).
The question about what weapons the USCG carry.. I just backed my chair up and asked the USCG Commander sitting behind me. He says the pilots carry the Sig P226 or P229R. That's .40 mil. 300px-SIGSauerP226.jpg [ATTACH=CONFIG]1624
For CQB (Close quarter Battle).. or boarding missions they'll have a shotty or M4 variant. I checked out Wiki for further info (Commander wants to know why i'm asking.. not gonna say "um, Zombies." LOL) and it says the "deployable" units use and MK18, which isn't anything but a super short M16/M4. 300px-M4A1-CQBR.jpg Still sweet as sh.... I'd love to get my hands on something like that. That way I don't have to relearn a weapons system. I digress.

So, No MP5's in the USCG inventory

[reaper239]

[/ATTACH]


Fk'n Aye Looney! Glad you made it brother.

KC, I think most of us said that they couldn't hang on the the skids (since there were no such thing on the JGG).
The question about what weapons the USCG carry.. I just backed my chair up and asked the USCG Commander sitting behind me. He says the pilots carry the Sig P226 or P229R. That's .40 mil. 300px-SIGSauerP226.jpg [ATTACH=CONFIG]1624
For CQB (Close quarter Battle).. or boarding missions they'll have a shotty or M4 variant. I checked out Wiki for further info (Commander wants to know why i'm asking.. not gonna say "um, Zombies." LOL) and it says the "deployable" units use and MK18, which isn't anything but a super short M16/M4. 300px-M4A1-CQBR.jpg Still sweet as sh.... I'd love to get my hands on something like that. That way I don't have to relearn a weapons system. I digress.

So, No MP5's in the USCG inventory

the mk18, originally the M4 CQBR (close quarters battle reciever) has a 10.3 in barrel giving it the size of a sub-machine gun and lowering the muzzle velocity enough to make it effective in CQB. originally developed for the navy SEALS, it went through several variations, starting as a replacement upper for the SOPMOD block II and labeled the CQBR, it is now a standalone weapon system which the military has labeled the Mk18 Mod1. it's my favorite M4 variant.

also, due to the modularity of the M16/4/AR platform, you could, in theory, carry a CQBR and an 18" reciever and just swap them out on the fly.