Chapter 24 discussion- "The Harder They Fall"

[Magrat]

Just a thought...when scratch was talking to tardust, I thought he sounded a little bit like skittles, or was it just me?? He even stuttered a little bit when he talked to scratch. But then why wouldn't he stutter, scratch is a little scary.

I had the same thought! He did sound a tad skittlish.

I wouldn't fret too much.. Burt's not dead. Like someone said earlier, it was too lame a death for Burt. After all we've been through with Burt, a major character of his caliber, for him to fall off a zipline and die like that would be a complete letdown. If he's going to die, he needs to die in a blaze of glory, not falling off a zipline.

KC has mentioned that if they get into a position where they will die, they die (like Samantha).
As much as I love Burt, and I do, I also think the idea of his death being such an anticlimax (if he's dead) is brilliant. We are all expecting this blaze of glory, so if we don't get it, it reinforces the 'even main character's aren't safe' thing. So, don't want him to be dead, but think that if he is it's the perfect way for him to go (ie against convention)!

Just finished second listen through.

Things to point out:
Scratch doesn't want to shoot Lizzy, and I'm pretty sure she was lying when she was said it was because of the bargaining chip. This leads me to believe that Scratch possibly could have lost a child or had a miscarriage or something before this all started. Just a theory.

Scratch refers to Burt as the Old Man when talking to Tar earlier on, which is interesting as it goes towards the possibility that Burt did survive.....

And how did Riley become unconscious, not really explained.

So we think they have Burt, awesome. Doesn't mean he's alive. Could just be the body?
Also, I think it was smoke inhillation that caused Riley's unconsciousness.

I'm sure there are more thoughts out there. SOme of them may even be mine. We shall find out when all the disparate threads are merged. (Some of them are already. fun times)

Cheers,
Magrat

[clem131]

or end up prone and laid out with his back to the ground.

"Supine" is the word you're looking for "prone" is actually the opposite.
(sorry, but I've seen this already more than once in this thread and it makes me cringe a little each time :P)

[clem131]

Kalani being the rat: sounds extremely complicated, somebody laid down a credible scenario earlier in the thread and it was very long and convoluted:
he'd have to be a spy BEFORE ending up in the arena, he'd have to know already that the mallers had issues with the guys in the tower, he'd have to be like "oh, good, by extreme luck I happen to be rescued by the guys I overheard the mallers have trouble with, let me be the rat then." etc
Plus, how stupid would he be to write "BTW, I'm a spy, but don't read this or you'll blow my cover" on his diary?!

I don't think he was informed about the redhead at the golf park during the flight back:
- "it's a redhead it must be her omg I wanna die kthxbai boom"
- it all happens "off camera", so to speak, and that would be extremely lame. Show, don't tell, and we aren't shown anything on Michael briefing him about the girl in the park, we are just imagining it. It would be a key scene and I just can't believe they would let it happen in the background.
I instead think the story with Kalani is something else entirely and we will be shown what "Hannah" means in the future when Angel or someone else reads his diary.
(Also, without the forums there was no way I could tell he said "Hannah", I listened to that part over and over, and I had trouble understanding Tar saying "Pippin" too. I'm not a native english speaker but it's the language we speak at work. I want the scripts together with the episodes on iTunes, too! :P)

Another thing: I guess the actress playing Tanya wasn't available. At least I hope so: there was a huge expectations buildup during the past episodes: "I think I know what the rat is", then she is attacked by zombies, we fear she's going to turn and then *poof!* all of a sudden she's up and walking about, and it all happens off camera (which, now that I think about it, is a good argument for Kalani thing happening off camera too). For crying out loud, I don't even recall hearing her voice the whole episode, it just suddenly goes "Oh, and fyi, there's Tanya on the chopper too" at the end.

Cuse and Lindelof said they would answer all the questions at the end of Lost too, and look what happened... between Randy, and Michael's arm, and the rat, and now this Hannah... I just hope it doesn't go the same way as Lost.

[nikvoodoo]

"Supine" is the word you're looking for "prone" is actually the opposite.
(sorry, but I've seen this already more than once in this thread and it makes me cringe a little each time :P)

Well.....ain't we just a know it all....

Thank you for correcting. I didn't realize I was crossed up.

[clem131]

Well.....ain't we just a know it all....

Thank you for correcting. I didn't realize I was crossed up.

I know, sorry, there was no way to make it sound less know-it-ally ^^'

[reaper239]

when would they have had time cuz when saul was shot he was in like a coma like state most of the time

are you kidding me, it was like a week or two that he was strapped down. nothing but time, and if no one else was checking in on them, well that's a lot of alone time *wink*

[Pikepaw]

I feel bad that I actually predicted Kalani's death...but not like this, nothing like this. I was horrified when it happened. I'm in the camp that he is dead, I'm sorry but there is no way for him to survive that kind of explosion. I wish it wasn't so.

I also predicted that the Big-Rig tanker bombs would come back into play because some were abandoned. Again, couldn't have predicted how they were used, but I think in the thread, "crackpot theories" I mentioned one being attempted to crash into the tower. I just didn't realize the Mallers would use them, I thought maybe the zombies would. I also knew the only way we knew Saul was bluffing was if at the beginning of the episode it is shown him explaining him plan to his allies.

So in summary, I feel smart for the things I half-predicted, but also bad. Mainly because in WND 19 I said Kalani was next to die...and I was right, I hate that. One time I wish I was wrong. Even just thinking about that scene tears me up inside

[Kc]

between Randy, and Michael's arm, and the rat, and now this Hannah... I just hope it doesn't go the same way as Lost.

You'll know soon enough, I promise. Pieces of the info is there, you just don't have the pieces to connect the dots...

[Hollomandious]

Kalani being the rat: sounds extremely complicated, somebody laid down a credible scenario earlier in the thread and it was very long and convoluted:
he'd have to be a spy BEFORE ending up in the arena, he'd have to know already that the mallers had issues with the guys in the tower, he'd have to be like "oh, good, by extreme luck I happen to be rescued by the guys I overheard the mallers have trouble with, let me be the rat then." etc
Plus, how stupid would he be to write "BTW, I'm a spy, but don't read this or you'll blow my cover" on his diary?!

calm down.

How about this.

Kalani landed, coming from Hawaii, just like he said. Then, the Mallers got him and his girl. He was then forced to go to the other Tower under penalty of her death. Shit went belly up there, and he ended up at the Arena. Then the Tower Folk randomly come save his ass. He then fones home to make sure they know he didn't just ditch them and her. He then tells about the pending night of drinking, and shit goes down. He then continues to give them little bits of info here and there in the background to keep Hannah alive. He doesn't check in for a while. So the Mallers send Pippin' in. Kalani kills Pippin' before he leaves w/ Datu. The Mallers (or maybe just Scratch) say, fuck it, and decide to use Hannah as a decoy to send a message to him (if he's still alive, since they don't know for sure).

And i believe Kalani was told what happened at the Golf Course. How could you not inform the driver at least partially what happened. He then assumes it was her, and crashes the jet like a rock star.

Eh?

[syfo]

And what about this long shot. Reinforcing the theory that Kalani was/is the rat, what if the body that Bricks found was Kalani, I mean if he somehow survived, he would be burned and so, hence the expression of Scratch when she look at it and her saying "I found what I was looking for" if that's the case then I hope Angel escaped somehow.