Chapter 24 discussion- "The Harder They Fall"

[Crocketman]

Kalani = Hero

[beezball]

For the record. I was just re-listening to chapter 7 where they do the sweat tests. During the scene where the zombies come up the adjacent tower that they ziplined down to, they cut the return zipline back to the tower because a zombie got on it. Anyway, angel says something to the effect that they should just starting dropping zombies three stories because it seems to kill themzombie as well asmaybe bullets. So we can assume the adjacent tower is 3 stories. So burt fell roughly 30-40 feet. Not as devastating as all that really. I'd say it would definitely be survivable.

[GD_Elite]

Here's my "Kalani is the Rat" scenario.
• Kalani lands a planeload of survivors from Hawaii, including "his Hannah" at LAX.
• They are captured by the Mallers.
• Recognizing the special relationship between Kalani and Hannah, the Mallers force Kalani to work for them, planting him as a spy in the "Other Tower", using Hannah as a hostage to guarantee his behavior. Somewhere in here one of the Mallers comments that Hannah is the last redhead left in LA.
• Kalani gets captured by the zombies when the Other Tower falls, and is rescued from the Arena by our Tower.
• Kalani uses the CB to get back in contact with the Mallers. He tells them the names of the leaders and lets them know about the party, which provides the perfect cover for the Mallers' attack.
• After the attack Kalani has second thoughts about helping the Mallers and stops communicating with them. Maybe something Scratch says helps; I can imagine her playing head games with Kalani and telling him that Hannah was already dead.
• Kalani recognizes Pippin as one of the Mallers and kills him. Before he leaves for LAX he writes a confessional message that he hides in Bill's desk.
• On the helicopter trip back to the Tower Saul and Michael mention the death of the redheaded woman at the golf course, and Kalani realizes that it had to be Hannah.
• Kalani uses the helicopter to stop the Mallers' attack, explaining on the radio about Hannah and telling Angel where to find his confession.
It's not an ideal scenario, and I hate the thought of Kalani being the rat, but I think it matches the facts in evidence.

I agree with you on most of it. But I think being the last redhead is a bit silly. I think it makes more sense that the team from the golf course told him about it, and Kalani might have assumed it was her, because he knew the consequences of not helping the tower, and probably realised that the mallers werent getting any use out of him/her.

Also, I think that Kalani likely changed his mind about being the rat when Angel didn't leave him to get eaten by the Big one, which could explain why he apologised for the tyre to an extent.

For the record. I was just re-listening to chapter 7 where they do the sweat tests. During the scene where the zombies come up the adjacent tower that they ziplined down to, they cut the return zipline back to the tower because a zombie got on it. Anyway, angel says something to the effect that they should just starting dropping zombies three stories because it seems to kill themzombie as well asmaybe bullets. So we can assume the adjacent tower is 3 stories. So burt fell roughly 30-40 feet. Not as devastating as all that really. I'd say it would definitely be survivable.

I think the calculations might be a little off.
The zipline went from the roof (~15th floor) to the adjacent roof. Then it went back down to the 3rd floor. Assuming the same angle slope on the 2 ziplwires, the adjacent tower is probably about 9 stories tall. The zombie you mentioned probably fell about 3 stories because it was close to the tower. Burt was close but probably just a bit higher than the roof of the other tower. This means that Burt probably fell around 10 floors. Not to mention that the burning tanker was beneath him. I'm not sure that he would have necessarily hit that, but its an extra reason why he might not have made it.

[archangel]

Hello everyone.. Long time listener, first time poster. I wanted to throw in my two cents with regard to Kalani's Hannah. His final words were exactly: "That girl? That was my Hannah". To me, that statement sounds like he either spoke with Angel about Hannah before, or that Angel will find out who Hannah was by reading the Journal he left in Bill's desk.

Here's an abstract view on the name/term 'Hannah' though. What if he didn't say Hannah at all? What if his reference was to the word "Heina" (pronounced the same)? If you look up the word, in urbanspeak it means "Male referring to his girlfriend. Term of endearment. My woman, queen, highness, above all other women. Slang for fine b*tch, main b*tch" (sorry ladies, I'm only quoting the dictionary). The band Sublime used the term in the song "Santeria"... "If I could find that heina, and that Sancho that she's found..."

Lastly, when Angel opened Bill's desk he said, "What the hell is this?" Looking at the comment logically, if he only found the Journal, his reaction wouldn't have been confusion. To me it sounds like he found something else in the desk besides the Journal.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that into the mix.. )

[archangel]

Some of my theories on survival:

Burt: Everyone on the roof agreed that before Burt's zipline broke, he was very close to the other building. As a long-time climber who's used ziplines before, I can tell you that forward momentum would have carried him into the side of the building he was zipping into. He wouldn't have been on his back as some mentioned, nor on his belly (Superman style), but rather in a sitting position. Angel himself says that he only pulled up about 10 yards of rope. If Burt was close to the other building when he fell, he would have had the brunt of the rope on his side and the burned/frayed end of the rope would have been well behind him. It's very possible he could have grabbed the zip line, bounced into the side of the building, and fallen a much lesser height than we assume.

Angel: His predicament sounds more problematic, but no less survivable. The brunt of the damage to the building was to the lower floors. Those would have been the ones to collapse fully. I think we're wrongly assuming a building collapse like we saw on 9/11, but only majority of the center of the roof collapsed, probably because of fire traveling up the elevator shaft which is always in the center shaft of a building. It doesn't sound like the upper floors were too much impacted by the fire below, because remember Angel was able to descend into Bill's apartment and we weren't hearing fire noises. In addition, Hope was nearby and he didn't have to fight fire to get to her. With that in mind, the lower floors of the building could have collapsed, but that doesn't mean everything collapsed in a pile of dust, and Angel could have easily survived in a pocket of undamaged building. There have been plenty of documented cases of this in real life situations, and I'm sure our brilliant show writer knows this.

Saul and Victor: Last we heard from them, they sounded like they were fine (relatively). If they're smart, they'll lay low and bide their time, follow the Mallers and see what they can do tactically without giving themselves away, while at the same time trying to re-establish contact with Michael and the rest of the helicopter survivors.

[nikvoodoo]

Some of my theories on survival:

Burt: Everyone on the roof agreed that before Burt's zipline broke, he was very close to the other building. As a long-time climber who's used ziplines before, I can tell you that forward momentum would have carried him into the side of the building he was zipping into. He wouldn't have been on his back as some mentioned, nor on his belly (Superman style), but rather in a sitting position. Angel himself says that he only pulled up about 10 yards of rope. If Burt was close to the other building when he fell, he would have had the brunt of the rope on his side and the burned/frayed end of the rope would have been well behind him. It's very possible he could have grabbed the zip line, bounced into the side of the building, and fallen a much lesser height than we assume.

It was me who said he would be laying on his back. Which is true, but slightly inaccurate. The harness would have be attached to the line at the waist. As they are sliding down they would be in more of a seated position, but leaning backwards in order to move forward. If they lean forward, they would rub their shoulder/face on the line. When the rope snapped, his descent would be in relatively the same position meaning he would either stand up in the air, or end up prone and laid out with his back to the ground.

The major deciding factor would be the harness and how they worked, and also if he was able to get to the rope/attempt to grab at the rope.

[archangel]

The major deciding factor would be the harness and how they worked, and also if he was able to get to the rope/attempt to grab at the rope.

Nikvoodoo, there is a third alternative of course, which I didn't think of until now. The military style hand over hand approach. Burt, being an old Gunny would have been well versed in this method. You know which one I'm referring to, the one where your hands grip the line, there's a carabiner attached to the harness at the waist, and your feet are crossed over the line and you pull yourself across. If he used this method, his hands would have been gripping the line already. They may have been out of harnesses by now and Burt may have resorted to his military training to get himself across. Using this method he would have gone down-line head first, and gripping the rope he would have swung into the side of the building in an upright position.. something to ponder..

[Dr. Hatchet]

I cryed, when burt..

[archangel]

I cryed, when burt..

I wouldn't fret too much.. Burt's not dead. Like someone said earlier, it was too lame a death for Burt. After all we've been through with Burt, a major character of his caliber, for him to fall off a zipline and die like that would be a complete letdown. If he's going to die, he needs to die in a blaze of glory, not falling off a zipline.

[nikvoodoo]

Z day stories are filled of lackluster deaths. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was dead.

However, if you can explain how he narrated (with our general assumption that narration= journal entry) but died without having written in a journal, I'm listening