Who/What was the Cause of the War between the Tower and Mallers

[VidjaGamez]

That's basing everything on the assumption that the Mallers just wanted to watch the world burn (damn you, Alfred). We really have zero idea what CJ or any of the other members of that group did to the Mallers. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the Mallers simply needed to assess a potentially dangerous threat near enough to them to become a concern. Or maybe, JUST maybe, Durai really does want to pull a Joker and cause nothing but chaos. That only fits if you remove their plan to destroy TOWTM and the rest of the zombies at the Arena. But we can't do that, because it happened. To say they were going bonkers to get in? Do we have definitive proof that they were stopping at nothing to do so? No, we don't. However, that doesn't make it untrue. It just leaves it as an unanswered question that will have to remain a subjective point. If you're Pro-Tower? Yeah, those psychos wanted in bad. If you're Pro-Maller? No man, they just wanted to know who was near their hood. If you're trying to remain objective? We really can't say for certain as the opportunity for either side to act never came to pass. We're then left to speculate the reasons and intentions of a group we only experience through second hand information and sketchy recollections. You know... hearsay.

As for Datu in the car... well I mean, during this event on the freeway, were you in the midst of a zombie apocalypse? No? I totally get what you're saying though. Yeah, I can understand someone gapping out behind the wheel and cruising on auto-pilot. But I can't believe that someone could relax to the point of being totally oblivious in a situation as fraught with immediate physical danger at any moment as that. Not to say that hurtling down the road at 120 k/hr isn't packed with its own inherent set of dangers. I'm just saying in this world of second chances due to the miracle of modern medicine... well, Datu and company are not afforded that luxury. You get bit, you get dead. There's no real second chances there. You would assume--one would hope--that a modicum of mental alertness would be present and at the forefront of everyone's mind.

All the same, I like the direction you went.

I wouldn't say the Mallers were hell bent on watching the world burn... more so, hell bent on making sure to take out the competition at any cost. They've been locked up for reasons they may have felt were justified, the man was keeping them down, now it's their time to shine, their chance to make the rules. But, the thought of the Mallers causing chaos for no reason, now that would be entertaining, if only!
Don't get me wrong though, I love to hate on Scratch, she's a great character. Never want to see the end of Scratch. But Scracth and Durai were desperate for that address from Kalani. I could be wrong and maybe they just wanted to know so they could make a mark on the map... But I feel their intentions or more survival of the fittest. They want to make sure others around them are in check, if they don't yield, well, you can suffer the fury of the Mallers!

Let me throw another example out there, I left work at 8 the other night, I was the only one there and my car was stupidly parked out in the middle of the lot. The second I left the door I was watching every direction, paranoid out of my mind. I jumped in my car, locked the doors and relaxed, whew! But I'm not safe, at any point if someone really wanted to get a hold of me they could have busted open the window. I wasn't safe, but I relaxed regardless.
You can't be paranoid at all times, you'll drive yourself crazy! I think it's safe to say that Datu felt safe, he trusted in the building, the security measures and the people around him. And like I mentioned before, he's just so gosh darn doofy at times, I honestly believe he just didn't realize.

Some people are just like that, they trust to a fault. Some people let their guard down far more easily then others. I think Datu is this type of person, Kalani was lucky to have the opportunity. If it had been anyone else in that car... Burt, Micheal, Angel... You bet they would have noticed what was going on right from the get go.

[Osiris]

I wouldn't say the Mallers were hell bent on watching the world burn... more so, hell bent on making sure to take out the competition at any cost. They've been locked up for reasons they may have felt were justified, the man was keeping them down, now it's their time to shine, their chance to make the rules. But, the thought of the Mallers causing chaos for no reason, now that would be entertaining, if only!
Don't get me wrong though, I love to hate on Scratch, she's a great character. Never want to see the end of Scratch. But Scracth and Durai were desperate for that address from Kalani. I could be wrong and maybe they just wanted to know so they could make a mark on the map... But I feel their intentions or more survival of the fittest. They want to make sure others around them are in check, if they don't yield, well, you can suffer the fury of the Mallers!

Let me throw another example out there, I left work at 8 the other night, I was the only one there and my car was stupidly parked out in the middle of the lot. The second I left the door I was watching every direction, paranoid out of my mind. I jumped in my car, locked the doors and relaxed, whew! But I'm not safe, at any point if someone really wanted to get a hold of me they could have busted open the window. I wasn't safe, but I relaxed regardless.
You can't be paranoid at all times, you'll drive yourself crazy! I think it's safe to say that Datu felt safe, he trusted in the building, the security measures and the people around him. And like I mentioned before, he's just so gosh darn doofy at times, I honestly believe he just didn't realize.

Some people are just like that, they trust to a fault. Some people let their guard down far more easily then others. I think Datu is this type of person, Kalani was lucky to have the opportunity. If it had been anyone else in that car... Burt, Micheal, Angel... You bet they would have noticed what was going on right from the get go.

Again, there is the safety net of having the amenities of the world around us that breeds that sort of complacency. I understand what you're saying, but my point is we're trying to instill rational behaviour traits into an irrational scenario in a world that is far more dangerous than the one we live in. Would you be as complacent with your actions in an environment less forgiving? Space for example. Doubtful.

Product of the environment. Datu either grew lax due to false sense of security--given all that had happened to that point, it's doubtful--or had prior knowledge. Perhaps, it isn't the least hole filled theory that could be presented. I just can't forgive being that irresponsible to the collective thereby allowing harm to come to the people you're supposed to be keeping safe. Make no mistake, in a situation like that it's everyone's responsibility to be vigilant and aware of what is going on around them. Nobody says you have to be paranoid, merely paying attention to what's happening around you. There is a difference.

[Grognaurd]

Nah, she is still psychotic. The only one she has shown of soft side for is her brother. Just about every time she interacts with a person it is physically violent.

She cuts up Charlie. That was just for fun, it was not a clean kill

She beat the shit out of Pippin.

To disciplin tar, she cuts him

She picks up Kalani etal. She immediately breaks a family unit. She gets Kalani to the other tower just as a sleeper agent. Kalani has no direction or objective.

OPINION
I do not think Duri wanted a shooting at the tower. That is all scratch. She has Kalani fire to ensure it goes south.

Duri may want the the tower. But, shit, it is not like that is the only tower in LA. Hell the other tower is pretty available. Her orders are to take the tower intact. But she starts lobbing pipe bombs and molotovs. Even when she is told not to do so by someone, she says that was somebody elses dream not mine.

She sends Puck on a kamakazi mission even though Puck is unaware that his is a one way ticket.

I do notbthink the second strike on the tower is all her, not Durai a person I believe she is planning to kill so she can have full control

This is LA. I am damn sure that there are more than 10 tankers. But instead of taking a day or two to find a few more, She leverages it for hate. At the end of season 2 they are light on tankers to blow the arena. But, she holds one in reserve for her own plans.


No, she is just whacked much much more than just having a few off days.

[reaper239]

osiris, you said earlier that we'd be singing a different tune if the mallers had stolen from the tower, and you're right, but that's because the tower had clearly defined boundaries. the tower residents took an interest in what happened in their surroundings, but they only laid a solid claim on what was in their tower. they didn't arbitrarily lay claim to half of LA. the mallers just picked an area and said "mine" without any way of notifying anyone else and without caring. if scratch had approached them rationally and not with aggression things could've been different, but she didn't. that's on her. it's the same as if i'm going through the desert and i come upon an oasis, so i take a drink. there's nothing posted saying that it belongs to you so i figure it's just an oasis on the middle of the desert. as i'm leaving you come up and try to crush my skull with a club, so i respond with counterveiling force. you say "you stole my water" at which point i'm very inclined to tell you to fuck off because you attacked me without warning or provocation. i wasn't acting aggressive, i saw something that i needed that wasn't secured against outsiders and hd nothing saying that someone owned it, so i took some and you come up and attack me. who's at fault there?

[loydmilligan]

Osiris, i am pretty sure you are just being contrary. Clearly it is possible Scratch and gang are not behaving badly, but most of the evidence points the other way. scratch killed an innocent man to cover up the losing of the tanker. The Mallers have slaves. Scratch is almost always aggresive and argumentative.

I mean, you could make the case that the emperor in Star Wars was just trying to provide a ton of jobs for all the storm troopers...

Yeah its possible scratch is just misunderstood and she is really a great person, but after hearing the story if you think that I do not know what to tell you. What could Scratch do to make you change your opinion of her?

[Osiris]

osiris, you said earlier that we'd be singing a different tune if the mallers had stolen from the tower, and you're right, but that's because the tower had clearly defined boundaries. the tower residents took an interest in what happened in their surroundings, but they only laid a solid claim on what was in their tower. they didn't arbitrarily lay claim to half of LA. the mallers just picked an area and said "mine" without any way of notifying anyone else and without caring. if scratch had approached them rationally and not with aggression things could've been different, but she didn't. that's on her. it's the same as if i'm going through the desert and i come upon an oasis, so i take a drink. there's nothing posted saying that it belongs to you so i figure it's just an oasis on the middle of the desert. as i'm leaving you come up and try to crush my skull with a club, so i respond with counterveiling force. you say "you stole my water" at which point i'm very inclined to tell you to fuck off because you attacked me without warning or provocation. i wasn't acting aggressive, i saw something that i needed that wasn't secured against outsiders and hd nothing saying that someone owned it, so i took some and you come up and attack me. who's at fault there?

Again, ignorance of property line is no excuse. Nobody said they laid claim to 'half of L.A.' but the fact is, if they wanted it and they believed they had the power to hold it then why the hell not? I can walk along sections of the Canadian/U.S. border and not see a line painted on the ground or even signage for MILES. I know. I've done it. The fact that there isn't a clearly visible dividing line on the ground or in the air does NOT excuse me from wandering across. If you're going to argue that point as valid then we have to throw everything we know out the window.

[Osiris]

Osiris, i am pretty sure you are just being contrary. Clearly it is possible Scratch and gang are not behaving badly, but most of the evidence points the other way. scratch killed an innocent man to cover up the losing of the tanker. The Mallers have slaves. Scratch is almost always aggresive and argumentative.

I mean, you could make the case that the emperor in Star Wars was just trying to provide a ton of jobs for all the storm troopers...

Yeah its possible scratch is just misunderstood and she is really a great person, but after hearing the story if you think that I do not know what to tell you. What could Scratch do to make you change your opinion of her?

You'd think that I was just being contrary... but you'd be very wrong. I believe everything I say. Like I said before, Scratch is the product of her environment. No different than Angel or Saul. Just different environment, that's all. As for what she could do to change my opinion of her? I don't know. Hadn't really thought about it.

[reaper239]

Again, ignorance of property line is no excuse. Nobody said they laid claim to 'half of L.A.' but the fact is, if they wanted it and they believed they had the power to hold it then why the hell not? I can walk along sections of the Canadian/U.S. border and not see a line painted on the ground or even signage for MILES. I know. I've done it. The fact that there isn't a clearly visible dividing line on the ground or in the air does NOT excuse me from wandering across. If you're going to argue that point as valid then we have to throw everything we know out the window.

but you've made the argument yourself that the same rules that apply today, would not necesarrily apply in this situation, therefore your own argument is invalid. true, in todays environment ignorance of property is no excuse, but when everything is up for grabs because everyone else is dead, it seems kind of silly to say "i am ruler of all i survey, hey don't touch that thing... waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy over there, it's mine. because i said so, that's why." if you lay claim on something that is no longer owned by anyone else, you move it to where you can maintain positive control over it, like the tower residents did, or else don't complain when someone comes along while you're not there and says, "hey, i need one of those." and takes it. of course, if that does happen, the way to handle it is probably not to go and approach them like some rabid ape.

i just thought of something else: property lines are agreed upon societal contrsucts. in other words, if i buy a plot of land, society has agreed that that is my land and that is where my property lines fall. you can't just arbitrarily say, "this is my property, and that is my property, and so is that over there, and all that in that direction too." and expect people to know or honor that, once society has broken down. realistically, the only property lines that matter with the dissoloution of society as we know it, are the ones you can enforce. clearly they were claiming beyond their reach and they should have moved their property where they could effectively lay claim.

[nikvoodoo]

Everyone has a charged opinion right about now....let's put it all here instead of all over the place!

[loydmilligan]

You'd think that I was just being contrary... but you'd be very wrong. I believe everything I say. Like I said before, Scratch is the product of her environment. No different than Angel or Saul. Just different environment, that's all. As for what she could do to change my opinion of her? I don't know. Hadn't really thought about it.

I guess your main point is that the war is not Scratch's fault. What if it turns out, as I think it will, that she had Kalani fire on her own people to incite the war...will that be enough for you to blame it on her?