Burt and the Mallers

[reaper239]

Class 3 of the National Firearms Act includes a category, in addition to machineguns and silenced weapons, called Destructive Devices. Destructive devices include rocket launchers, grenades, and military grade explosives such as C4.

i did not know the c4 could be obtained with a class three. that is interesting. i don't think burt was really a black market dealer, i think it is more likely that he was selling that to a friend or something like that and the rest of that stuff was because he was a gun nut. heck, i want his toys.

on a side note, who else here thinks Alchohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store and not a government agency?

[Conejita]

weren't all the mallers in jail? my guess is if the mallers knew about the rpgs it was because someone on the outside was planning a breakout. more likely though, when the mallers escaped, they fanned out in all directions and took whatever wasn't nailed down.

Wasn't Latch doing time for something Scratch had done? I think I remember her saying she was the one who broke him out of jail.

[nikvoodoo]

Wasn't Latch doing time for something Scratch had done? I think I remember her saying she was the one who broke him out of jail.

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed by kc that scratch was not in jail at the time of the outbreak. At the very least she wasn't at eastern bay.

[archangel]

I think Burt even had claymore mines. Those things should be illegal even in time of war, but I'm sure there are some stuffed in a box in somebody's garage somewhere.

I think you might be confusing Claymores with buried mines that typically kill and maim so many children who find them. Claymores aren't designed to be stepped on as a means of detonation. I believe you're thinking of those movie mines where you see someone step on the button in the middle and then can't step off again without detonating it and then you see his buddy try to pry a knife under his boot to take the pressure off, while they both sweat buckets. Claymores sit above ground, are aimed at approaching enemy lines, and are designed to take out (1) pursuers, and (2) masses of soldiers (or zombies )trying to overwhelm your line.

By the way, it's not the mine that kills people.. it's the malevolent person who plants it that kills people. You don't need mines to get the same results. Even if no mines were produced, these people would find other means of maiming people. The Viet Cong rarely had access to mines, so they used other means like Pungi Traps. Look it up.. I'll take a mine any day over tripping and/or falling into a pungi trap.

[reaper239]

I think you might be confusing Claymores with buried mines that typically kill and maim so many children who find them. Claymores aren't designed to be stepped on as a means of detonation. I believe you're thinking of those movie mines where you see someone step on the button in the middle and then can't step off again without detonating it and then you see his buddy try to pry a knife under his boot to take the pressure off, while they both sweat buckets. Claymores sit above ground, are aimed at approaching enemy lines, and are designed to take out (1) pursuers, and (2) masses of soldiers (or zombies )trying to overwhelm your line.

By the way, it's not the mine that kills people.. it's the malevolent person who plants it that kills people. You don't need mines to get the same results. Even if no mines were produced, these people would find other means of maiming people. The Viet Cong rarely had access to mines, so they used other means like Pungi Traps. Look it up.. I'll take a mine any day over tripping and/or falling into a pungi trap.

there are few people i've heard make as much sense about weapons as you. i heard some guys talking about gun control and the one guy says "so do you think EVERYONE should have machine guns?" real snotty sounding, and the guy he was talking to, without missing a beat, said "yes. there is nothing a law abiding citizen would do with a machine gun that he would not do with a handgun." the guy looked shocked. i laughed. i think everyone should have a machine gun, like switzerland, then zombies wouldn't stand a chance.

[Osiris]

I think you might be confusing Claymores with buried mines that typically kill and maim so many children who find them. Claymores aren't designed to be stepped on as a means of detonation. I believe you're thinking of those movie mines where you see someone step on the button in the middle and then can't step off again without detonating it and then you see his buddy try to pry a knife under his boot to take the pressure off, while they both sweat buckets. Claymores sit above ground, are aimed at approaching enemy lines, and are designed to take out (1) pursuers, and (2) masses of soldiers (or zombies )trying to overwhelm your line.

By the way, it's not the mine that kills people.. it's the malevolent person who plants it that kills people. You don't need mines to get the same results. Even if no mines were produced, these people would find other means of maiming people. The Viet Cong rarely had access to mines, so they used other means like Pungi Traps. Look it up.. I'll take a mine any day over tripping and/or falling into a pungi trap.

Mines and claymores maim more than they kill. They're a wholly malevolent weapon. Sadists use them when they're losing.

[archangel]

there are few people i've heard make as much sense about weapons as you. i heard some guys talking about gun control and the one guy says "so do you think EVERYONE should have machine guns?" real snotty sounding, and the guy he was talking to, without missing a beat, said "yes. there is nothing a law abiding citizen would do with a machine gun that he would not do with a handgun." the guy looked shocked. i laughed. i think everyone should have a machine gun, like switzerland, then zombies wouldn't stand a chance.

Thank you Reaper.. I don't want to turn this thread into a gun rights thing or anything, but I look at it this way: The recent attack in Norway... nobody had a gun except the attacker. Would we have had 85 people killed if those attacked had guns? I'll debate anyone any day that if people (meaning responsible adults) had been armed during the attack, the gunman would have shot a couple of people at most before being shot himself by law abiding gun owning citizens.

If responsible, law abiding citizens were allowed to carry guns, would an average robber still be as ballsy about entering a liquor store or a bank to rob it, or would he consider the fact that he might get shot as soon as he screamed out "This is a robb....!" Obviously not everyone should be allowed to own a gun though. I was at my local gun store buying a quad rail for my AR recently when a clearly mentally ill man walked in and asked to see, then buy a gun. You could tell he was mentally ill because of his comments, his lack of care of himself, and his speech impediment. Don't judge me! ) Anyway, the shop owner couldn't legally refuse him, so he ran his record, which of course came back red-flagged. Of course he was denied the purchase because he wasn't mentally competent enough to be trusted with the responsibility of owning gun. Being a felon or having committed a violent crime should also be an impediment to gun ownership because these people have already proven to be more than willing and prone to violent actions and/or reactions.

The conversation you heard is true and accurate. A law abiding citizen would not do anything more with a machine gun that he wouldn't do with a handgun, or even a bow and arrow for that matter. Gun control supporters always spout about other countries where guns aren't even allowed, but they never mention the attacks committed with bladed weapons, hammers, nail guns, baseball bats, axes, and tons of blunt objects. "Hammers don't kill people.. people kill people" )

[archangel]

Mines and claymores maim more than they kill. They're a wholly malevolent weapon. Sadists use them when they're losing.

I absolutely disagree. I think that's an amateur comment coming from a lot of misinformation, and/or information put out by the media in voice against indiscriminate use of mines by governments (or rebel factions) not concerned with the safety of its citizens. These are atrocious acts and worthy of criticism and criminal prosecution. That's one side of the story, but there is another side. There are many legitimate uses for mines and mine fields. In war, claymores are placed around a night (or day) encampment in enemy territory to protect soldiers from being surprised and overwhelmed by enemy combatants. They're also used to cover a retreat, usually under enemy fire. They're not, however, indiscriminately used against civilians.

Mines, when in the hands of legitimate governments who adhere to conventions, are used to protect assets, borders, and personnel. We don't place mines and mine fields without clearly marking and mapping the field. Not all governments follow these rules, but that's when they're knowingly committing a criminal act without fear of repercussion. The Bosnians and Serbians did this.. Uganda did this... many African nations do this. It's criminal, but let's be fair here. These mines are bought illegitimately over the black market from fringe governments and defunct governments surplus (USSR for example (that's Russia for those of you born after 1990)), and from illegal gun runners, etc. Uganda never bought a mine from the US military, neither did any Bosnian or Serbian. Again, I need to clarify that you don't need mines to accomplish the same results. You can make home-made explosives, cocktails (not the type you drink), to maim and kill just as effectively. Many chemicals, when mixed will cause an explosive reaction. Put a small ziploc bag with one chemical in a larger ziploc bag with the reactive chemical, fill it with nails, and when stepped on the bags rip, the chemicals mix, and guess what? Death and destruction. No mine needed. People have always come up with very creative ways to kill one another in the name of stupidity.

In the end, there are many legitimate reasons to use mines (I only addressed a couple), and many illegitimate uses for mines. It's not the mines that need to go, it's the people and the governments that use them illegally that need to go. Outlaw motorcycle gangs use hammers as their weapons of choice because they can legally carry them, but does that mean we should ban hammers? A mine, like a hammer, is an inert object. It's the man behind the hammer (or mine) who's the real danger to society.

[h3half]

Like the saying goes, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

And if this is going to be a Gun Control debate, than I want to put my 2 cents in. (My perspective is that of a law-abiding US Citizen)

Whether guns are legal or not, crimes will still be committed. Crimes that will involve guns. Some states have "Concealed Carry Licenses" for people to be able to carry a concealed handgun legally. Some states are completely on the Gun Control bandwagon. But if you deny the citizens the "Right to Bear Arms" (as the Constitution says) than it's not a giant leap to start denying standard law enforcement guns. If the police don't have guns, how in the hell are they going to stop the bank robbers running around with AK-47s? I know that denying police the ability to have guns is a very very far stretch, but think of the implications! Whether or not guns are legal, the robbers will have them from the Black Market. Making guns illegal will just cut down on the husband/wife murders we see not-all-that-often.

Summary: Gun control is bad. If I want to own a handgun to protect myself and I am
1: Not mentally impaired
2: Have no criminal record, at all
3: Am over the age of 18 (or possibly 21)
than I should be able to buy one. Legally.

[Ra1th]

Hey guys, let's try and keep this thread on topic. Although it's an interesting debate to have, gun control is not the topic for this particular thread. If you guys want to discuss that further, I'd suggest starting a new thread dedicated to that topic but should you do so, please keep things civilized. We encourage debate but personal attacks will not be tolerated.

So without further ado, Burt's black market dealings for the RPG and how that might lead to a connection with the mallers.