Burt and Angel are alive. For now. Let's get excited about the next series.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
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Good point about the narration, hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Still, if I found out that they killed him off just like that, I'd walk around with a sour lemon look on my face all day. I think he'll be a prisoner, collaborate with Angel, have a chance at redemption and save Lizzy. I think we'll see one of those "Lizzy? Lizzzyyyy!!" reactions from Saul when Burt brings his honey back to him. :cool:
I think the other person the mallers captured, when Scratch said they had two people from the Tower, was Skittles. The Mallers don't know Skittles so they assumed he was from the Tower. Scratch was looking for Angel after the Tower fell, that is who they found at the end and put with Burt. This could indicate that Scratch did indeed know Angel before all this happened.
.
If Burt is dead then thats gonna annoy me not becasue I like him just becasue the rope snapping is a really cheap death for a main character
Hm, considering the theory that Kalani stopped working as a spy for The Mallers at some point after Angel saved him there is one sad thing about that theory: then The Mallers new "home" would not be mentioned in his Journal, I assume. Too bad...and that would mean that the Helicopter-Survivors HAVE to rely on Saul and/or Victor to follow them somehow or at least on Angel and/or Burt - if they make it (I think they are severely hurt and as far as we know The Mallers have no doctor with them, at least they are probably not better equipped than the tower...was...). Ok, maybe Lizzy could get a message through, but that is pretty unlikely as well.
So we could assume the line of some events taking place early in s3...right?
Kc has said that one of his inspirations in writing was the show LOST. If you ever watched that show from beginning to end you'll see that the whole way that every time a mystery is answered it is accompanied with many more mysteries. Fortunately, unlike LOST Kc has said all mysteries will be answered by the end. Fear not, we'll find out what happened to Michael. I agree with you, it's one of the biggest questions I have. However, the introduction of Randy at the end of Season 2 means he will come back in Season 3 and mark my words... the water tower, Michael's broken arm, and Randy are connected.Quote:
Originally Posted by wh33t
So we know who one is. Lizzy. Fine.
But who is the other?
My theory is, that if the idea of Lizzy being pregnant is right, then the 'other tower residence' is her unborn child. The only thing that makes sense, unless there is someone we're missing and don't realize it (skittles anyone? maybe someone from The Colony?)
So my money is on unborn child.
[as a side note, I can't see a Chapter 24 sub forum. do we have one yet?]
Scratch now has 'The Old Man' and someone else. I'm assuming we're assuming it's Burt and Angel. but really, who knows.
As a side note, shouldn't this be in the Season 2 subforum?
No chapter 24 subforum. I'm going to merge this into the discussion thread and create the subforum shortly. I just realized that 2 hours after the chapter ended we didn't have a discussion thread created yet so I hastily created it.
oooh! everything has been merged! fun times!
I had the same thought! He did sound a tad skittlish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paola
KC has mentioned that if they get into a position where they will die, they die (like Samantha).Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel
As much as I love Burt, and I do, I also think the idea of his death being such an anticlimax (if he's dead) is brilliant. We are all expecting this blaze of glory, so if we don't get it, it reinforces the 'even main character's aren't safe' thing. So, don't want him to be dead, but think that if he is it's the perfect way for him to go (ie against convention)!
So we think they have Burt, awesome. Doesn't mean he's alive. Could just be the body?Quote:
Originally Posted by GD_Elite
Also, I think it was smoke inhillation that caused Riley's unconsciousness.
I'm sure there are more thoughts out there. SOme of them may even be mine. We shall find out when all the disparate threads are merged. (Some of them are already. fun times)
Cheers,
Magrat
"Supine" is the word you're looking for :) "prone" is actually the opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
(sorry, but I've seen this already more than once in this thread and it makes me cringe a little each time :P)
Kalani being the rat: sounds extremely complicated, somebody laid down a credible scenario earlier in the thread and it was very long and convoluted:
he'd have to be a spy BEFORE ending up in the arena, he'd have to know already that the mallers had issues with the guys in the tower, he'd have to be like "oh, good, by extreme luck I happen to be rescued by the guys I overheard the mallers have trouble with, let me be the rat then." etc
Plus, how stupid would he be to write "BTW, I'm a spy, but don't read this or you'll blow my cover" on his diary?!
I don't think he was informed about the redhead at the golf park during the flight back:
- "it's a redhead it must be her omg I wanna die kthxbai boom"
- it all happens "off camera", so to speak, and that would be extremely lame. Show, don't tell, and we aren't shown anything on Michael briefing him about the girl in the park, we are just imagining it. It would be a key scene and I just can't believe they would let it happen in the background.
I instead think the story with Kalani is something else entirely and we will be shown what "Hannah" means in the future when Angel or someone else reads his diary.
(Also, without the forums there was no way I could tell he said "Hannah", I listened to that part over and over, and I had trouble understanding Tar saying "Pippin" too. I'm not a native english speaker but it's the language we speak at work. I want the scripts together with the episodes on iTunes, too! :P)
Another thing: I guess the actress playing Tanya wasn't available. At least I hope so: there was a huge expectations buildup during the past episodes: "I think I know what the rat is", then she is attacked by zombies, we fear she's going to turn and then *poof!* all of a sudden she's up and walking about, and it all happens off camera (which, now that I think about it, is a good argument for Kalani thing happening off camera too). For crying out loud, I don't even recall hearing her voice the whole episode, it just suddenly goes "Oh, and fyi, there's Tanya on the chopper too" at the end.
Cuse and Lindelof said they would answer all the questions at the end of Lost too, and look what happened... between Randy, and Michael's arm, and the rat, and now this Hannah... I just hope it doesn't go the same way as Lost.
Well.....ain't we just a know it all.... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by clem131
Thank you for correcting. I didn't realize I was crossed up.
I know, sorry, there was no way to make it sound less know-it-ally ^^'Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
are you kidding me, it was like a week or two that he was strapped down. nothing but time, and if no one else was checking in on them, well that's a lot of alone time ;) *wink*Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_huber
I feel bad that I actually predicted Kalani's death...but not like this, nothing like this. I was horrified when it happened. I'm in the camp that he is dead, I'm sorry but there is no way for him to survive that kind of explosion. I wish it wasn't so.
I also predicted that the Big-Rig tanker bombs would come back into play because some were abandoned. Again, couldn't have predicted how they were used, but I think in the thread, "crackpot theories" I mentioned one being attempted to crash into the tower. I just didn't realize the Mallers would use them, I thought maybe the zombies would. I also knew the only way we knew Saul was bluffing was if at the beginning of the episode it is shown him explaining him plan to his allies.
So in summary, I feel smart for the things I half-predicted, but also bad. Mainly because in WND 19 I said Kalani was next to die...and I was right, I hate that. One time I wish I was wrong. Even just thinking about that scene tears me up inside
You'll know soon enough, I promise. Pieces of the info is there, you just don't have the pieces to connect the dots...Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
shovel:) calm down.Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
How about this.
Kalani landed, coming from Hawaii, just like he said. Then, the Mallers got him and his girl. He was then forced to go to the other Tower under penalty of her death. Shit went belly up there, and he ended up at the Arena. Then the Tower Folk randomly come save his ass. He then fones home to make sure they know he didn't just ditch them and her. He then tells about the pending night of drinking, and shit goes down. He then continues to give them little bits of info here and there in the background to keep Hannah alive. He doesn't check in for a while. So the Mallers send Pippin' in. Kalani kills Pippin' before he leaves w/ Datu. The Mallers (or maybe just Scratch) say, fuck it, and decide to use Hannah as a decoy to send a message to him (if he's still alive, since they don't know for sure).
And i believe Kalani was told what happened at the Golf Course. How could you not inform the driver at least partially what happened. He then assumes it was her, and crashes the jet like a rock star.
Eh?
And what about this long shot. Reinforcing the theory that Kalani was/is the rat, what if the body that Bricks found was Kalani, I mean if he somehow survived, he would be burned and so, hence the expression of Scratch when she look at it and her saying "I found what I was looking for" if that's the case then I hope Angel escaped somehow.
An added thought on the "Kalani as the rat" debate. When Angel searches Bill's desk he exclaims, "What the hell is this?", followed by the sounds of him moving some heavy-sounding items. A few minutes later he tells Burt and Hope that he's putting "Kalani's journals" in Hope's backpack. I don't know why the sight of Kalani's journals would merit any special exclamation, they're what I was expecting Angel to find. But I can think of several other things that might merit a few choice words. Say, a silenced Beretta, or maybe a radio that didn't belong to the Tower. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes out of Hope's backpack when Season 3 starts!
Has someone mentioned that Michael screwed up the Pippin assassination timeline? And that he said he and Angel were together when it happened and Angel didn't correct him?
But that's not exactly how it went down.....fishy fishy fishy....best part of it being fishy? Red herrings are also fishy....so that's interesting.
Yes, I too wondered what exactly it was she was referring too at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
That would be awesome if Burt managed to right his wrongs.Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel
Head... spinning... wow. I just can't believe all this!
Has anyone besides me noticed that the zombies were almost entirely a non-appearance and non-issue in this one? Don't get me wrong, I HATE those guys (don't we all?), but I just found it interesting. Our peeps from the tower were originally worried about the zombies, but now it seems the greater and more immediate danger is the Mallers.
Who is Randy again? -_-Quote:
Originally Posted by riskbreaker23
NiceQuote:
Originally Posted by Hollomandious
I considered that also. That would be hellah terrifying.Quote:
Originally Posted by syfo
I hate when good things go on hiatus
I like your thinking. Welcome to the boards!Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel
Just listened to Chapter 24 for the first time but will give it another listen.
Did Scratch really say the old "man" or "men". I thought I had heard men which could be implied it was either burt and she was just going to make him another slave or someone significantly injured i.e.(possibly Angel). I'm in agreement that Angel found the the silenced pistol and maybe thats what scratch had picked up from the rubble that she found next to Angel.
I thought the same thing. Also if Kalani was from the other tower too why does hope never recognize him or acknowledge the fact that he knew him from that tower? Maybe he just stole Samantha's story about the other tower. Thats why when ever they asked him where the other tower was he couldnt find it on any maps or remember where it was. Not that i dont like Kalani labeling him as a rat but i know from this chapter if he was the rat its not because he wanted to be its because he was forced to be in order to keep hannah alive. And he must have killed pippin to keep the mallers from finding out anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollomandious
Wasn't Kalani remembered by Hope or something? I forget.Quote:
Originally Posted by zzfist
I'm curious to know who this other hostage was that Scratch referred to when she told Angel, "We'll give them both back to you." I'm thinking it could be someone they've had for a long time now forcing someone within the tower to be the rat. Could be Kalani's Hannah, or I dunno, Kelly's sister? Maybe it was that gall that got blasted on the golf course. At least this clears up that famous conversation between Tardust and Scratch back at the furniture store. When Tardust was asked, "What about the other one?" Scratch replies, "We still have her." Her, Hannah maybe?
Although I've been saying that Burt's death was coming, I actually don't believe he's dead. He had some moments of narration, the bit about his hands growing steady and then starts blasting Maller melons left and right. So if he was narrating can we assume he later had time to tell his story to someone, or maybe write it down in a journal? I dunno, his death seemed to casual. Sure it is realistic in that no one is safe but this is Burt! He was supposed to go down in a blaze of glory, not the blaze of a fuel truck five stories below!
So I'm a Saul fan boy, but I must say, I'm quite disappointed in the guy. Although I admire his love driven quest to rescue Lizzie, I hate it that he was blind to the dangers ahead. If you want to place blame, you could say that Saul's idea caused the death of nearly every tower member! On the same hand you have to give credit to Scratch for out smarting three soldiers. I'm convinced she has some sort of military training. Maybe like some disciplinary bootcamp type stuff.
So Angel finding Kalani's journal is kind of a big deal in that I thought everyone had turned in thier journals to Tanya. Why was he hiding his? Or was this a "true" journal in that he kept a false one and a real one should he ever wish to clear his conscience? But I'm not completely convinced that Kalani could have been the mole. If the mole and the Pippin shooter are indeed the same person, then it seems like it would have been next to impossible for Kalani to shoot Pippin.
Dang it KC! I know the peices are there. I just can't put the picture together yet.
Scratch's maneuver at the golf course was classic Sun Tzu strategy. She is starting to become my favorite character on the show.
I'm also not so convinced that Kalani is dead at this point. When Scratch and Bricks are walking around the rubble, it sounds as though they are walking on thin sheets of metal, similar to that of a helicopter. Since the Wiki lists him as deceased, I guess he really is deceased. If he did survive, then Angel will be the wildcard here. Since everyone is convinced that he's dead, I could see him shadowing the Mallers and maturing as a more formidable character.
I believe he was referencing Episode (1); implying Angel has always been with the Tower and no time to be associated with the Mallers.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Burt was referencing the Killer of Pippin (24 ~33:50-34:10 mark) and that maybe he was looking at the killer right now instead of Lewis who was locked up below. Michael says "No there's no way. Angel was with me when it happened. Right, Angel?" and Angel replies "Exactly."Quote:
Originally Posted by nrtv20
As we've had time trial discussions trying to figure out who was available to murder Pippin (who did and did not have enough time to pull the trigger), I found it interesting that despite knowing there's 12-15 seconds Angel is unaccounted for Michael claims they were in the same location.
Tried to read through all of the posts but I might have missed this. Here are my two thoughts:
1. Kalani could have found out that the girl from the golf course "was his Hannah" on his way to pick up Micheal & Co. near the golf course. He was alone in the chopper on the way to the rendezvous point, right? He had a radio up there with him.
2. Hope says "That's a long way" when either talking about the drop from the room or the trip via zip-line to the other building. Does that mean that she can actually see? Does that mean that her blindness was temporary and more trauma caused it to return? Does that mean she's been faking it all along?
More thoughts coming later.
I don't know if someone has thought of this before ( I scanned through the previous postings briefly) and I don't know much about helicopters, but...do they have a black box? If so, would it also include a cockpit voice recorder? Could that be what Scratch was looking fo
Omg, I totally forgot about that. It's definitely sounding like they had another female to use as leverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
I'm a Saul fan boy as well, I'd like to think I would have done the exact same thing. No one else at the Tower was taking the Lizzy search seriously. I think if blame is going to be pointed at any one specific person, it goes to Michael and his list of militant rules that Burt was destined to follow. But all in all, in a Zombie Apocalypse you probably just gotta let some shit slide, it's a crazy situation lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
Interesting idea! Although I'm not sure 'anyone' can simple crack open a black box and start recovering data from it. Isn't it some kind of on board computer that needs to be connected to some other kind of machine to retrieve the data?Quote:
Originally Posted by GChild78
From what I can find in general helicopters are not required to carry a Flight Data Recorder, or a Voice Data Recorder (collectively they are the Black boxes). Medical helicopters specifically are noted to not carry the VDR, and Kalani crashed the medical chopper into the tanker. But even if they did find a data recorder in the wreckage, w33t is correct. You need the right equipment in order to analyze the data....of course we know LAX is basically uninhabited.They could try to find it there, but I'd imagine it's only helpful if you knew what to look for.Quote:
Originally Posted by GChild78
Ultimately, what do the black boxes even accomplish for the Mallers? They know the helicopter was purposefully flown into their bomb so you don't need the data recorder for that. And Kalani was using the CB so the Mallers would be able to hear what was said anyway (Bricks was monitoring the radio at one point).