Just realised that the armory and guard room are not on the same floor. Both Angel and Michael had to go up or down stairs to get there.
Where do we think it is now then?
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Isn't the Armory also the same as Burts room? That's upstairs somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by cupcakezombie
I'm Glad this episode made my theory about Kelly being the (former)Rat/Shooter much more stronger! :)
i hop that i'm right :P
I thot Bill was the rat. Is the rat still around? I thot the rat was over and done. What am I missing?
They thought Bill was the rat because he stole the weapons and food. The rat wasn't him though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora
listen to Purgatory Chapter...they are reproducing...I kinda think they are using the captured women. Not really sure on that but I am pretty sure they are reproducing...You can hear what sounds like someone in labor.
Why was Bill encouraging everybody to get drunk then? Why did he take ammo that he himself couldnt even use? When he died he said 'sorry'
Because Bill just wanted to party. He's been alone upstairs for the majority of the series up until then. He took ammo because I'm sure he felt threatened at times. He said sorry for taking the food and ammo. Remember, Bill was on the front lines when it came to fighting off the Mallers. Had that not happened, I'd be leaning a tad into the realm of rat/shooter being different people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora
I'm still under the assumption that Bill was the thief and stole both the ammo and food. As for why he would do it? Its the end of the world. People have a tendency to make selfish decisions in survival situations like that. He stole stuff to ensure he had enough and didn't really give a damn about everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora
By the time he came out and joined everyone else he was feeling more open to the Tower community as a whole, which is why is joined in so enthusiastically during the party. Then when he was dying after getting shot, he said "I'm sorry" for stealing stuff. At least that's my interpretation. But none of that ever definitively proved him to be "the rat" meaning the person who betrayed the Tower to the Mallers.
Yea...Riley said Michael is not her type...she likes them 'tall and blonde' and 'Angel doesnt get it...oh well it is still flattering I suppose' also She SAYS she was a cook with 4 ovens and stuff...wouldnt that be something you would find in a prison? As well as being a lesbian? She said right off the bat if Michael and Saul hadnt given her a gun she would have stolen one (and she is pretty good with weapons). The footsteps after Pippins murder sound feminine. And the smoking...I think it is odd she smokes if she has her priorities so straight (arena locker room) smoking is prolly pretty common for ppl in prison.
Couple things....
Kalani still could gave done it, he would have had a purpose for shooting the radio, to buy him a datu time to get out of the tower.... Don't see much other purpose in shooting the radio. And it's been mentioned already but he and datu were not together the whole time.
A bit a foreshadowing maybe, but when Saul mentioned somebody needed to drive the hummer back. Anybody else get the feeling that he is gonna go on the look for Lizzie. Meaning we won't get back to her story till the choppers flying
And this is probably nothing but it bothers me. Angel said Lewis's hands smell like gas..... The generator runs on diesel
Thank you to all involved with we're alive. Great work!
i never saw it this way, but yeah it makes sense for saul to take the hummer to look for lizzie, my biggest concern is the fact that they havent thought, "oh hey there is something going down over near the rink, maybe lizzie and the mallers are over there, i understand they are looking for a chopper, but you would have thought that a search party would go in that direction in hopes to find somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by 70DDISDEAD
Yeah, but why?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieMama
What has she got to gain from it?
Another fantastic episode Mr. Wayland :D
Some of my thoughts:
1) Yea Pegs! Can't wait to see her fly a helicopter (God willing she doesn't crack it up) and develop as a character as a result of said flight.
2) The rat. I'm really leaning towards Kelly being the rat, with Victor as her aid (ohh betcha didn't think of that one ;) ), but all your chatter has me considering Riley as well.
3) And lastly, nice touch on Riley's callsign. "Oiseau" the french word for bird :)
Also:
This makes me wonder what the zombies look like across the globe.... :S :3Quote:
Originally Posted by Paola
A few things
We suspected Pegs had flight experience because when they are at the boat she tells Michael her father was a pilot
Hope. I do not know how many of us have been on the wrong side of a firearm, but I can forgive her for not remembering Alcohol or Aftershave
Riley, Michael and Angel had paccess to Burt's bag
It's you. Pippin has not seen Riley nor Kalani
We do not know where the alarm wire was cut. Assuming Michael did not cut it in the guard post (really dumb) we can rule out Angel
Interestingly, Riley does not have have an alibi and has access to Burt's missing gun and was in proximity of the scene of the crime has not been seen by Pippin at the tower and loves tall blondes and shares a room with Lizzie ....
Riley could have gone to the guard room to shoot Pippin or Steven. Remember, Steven was to be on guard duty. I will have to listen to the back episodes, but does Riley even know Pippin is "here"?
As to why shoot the radio? Anger. It is what has gotten her into all this trouble. Little lies often mushroom into blackmail and keep heading down hill picking up speed
For the it's not Riley crew...
Victor and Kelley both have access to the silenced mp5. Maybe Kelley spent enough time with him to know he is. Threat
As for me, I am sticking to my "guns" and following the silencer. It is where logic leads even if I do not necessarily like where it is headed. But, it is good writing!
Last but not least we have three events and they do not have to be the same person
The Hoarder
The Rat
The Shooter
Dunno bout anyone else.. But victor is the reason I don't suspect Kelly.. Also if her plan was to set off hurts alarm to clear the area to take pippin out... Why didn't she do it during the six hours she was in there with him? Would have been a bit simpler I think...
And if hope couldn't smell the booze on Riley. Would she have smell the cologne on victor?
Hell of a puzzle this one is..... Excellent work by mr. Wayland for sure!!
Yup. The gas diesel mis-speak. That is why Datu will never let him near the generator.Quote:
Originally Posted by 70DDISDEAD
I'll repost this theory as to the potential meaning of Pippin's "It's You" because I believe it may have been lost in the snarl of Part 1's thread:
Lets just imagine that Pippin was an informant/plant/mole/whatever seeking out the original rat to reestablish contact. Pippin knows he is seeking someone out. But he's never met this person and isn't sure who it may be.
All of a sudden while he's in the guard room, an alarm goes off, and a person enters the room holding a silenced pistol (which has to be out already because you don't hear any sound of a weapon being drawn). It becomes obvious to him, this is who he was supposed to be searching for ("It's you") but sadly it's too late and Pippin is toast.
In this instance Pippin could have met everyone and shook their hand in line and held a conversation with them. But if he wasn't sure who he was looking for it wouldn't make a difference if he had met them before or not. The "It's you" could be prompted by someone he's already met but has now revealed themselves as the Rat to him by coming in holding an assassins weapon.
Well if she did it while she was in the room with Pippin on guard duty, it would make it pretty obvious that it was her who assassinated Pippin. I don't think anyone could ignore her sitting in a room with a dead body and not think it was her.Quote:
Originally Posted by 70DDISDEAD
Shooting The RadioQuote:
Originally Posted by 70DDISDEAD
- I believe for the rat/assassin/former rat meant to cause chaos and miscommunication within the Tower. Shooting the Towers main radio would knock communications out between the Tower and the search parties looking for other helicopters and stuff.
Datu & Kalani
- As I've posted in a previous post Angel said that Datu and Kalani were together the whole time before the incident happen (the alarm sounding). Also 1 minute and 45 seconds between the time Kalani leaves Micheal and Tanya isn't a lot of time for someone like Kalani to get up and down floors so quickly, especially considering that he'd be breathing pretty hard if he was running around that much in the first place.
Gas & Diesel
- I don't know what diesel really smells like, but most people, even Angel, probably don't know either. When Burt, Lizzy and Saul were getting diesel Burt was using more of a color/texture description to make distinctions between gas and diesel which could mean that gas and diesel smell pretty similar to each other leading to "gas" smell on Lewis' hands.
Let me paint the picture for you then. Pippin is droning on about england... Kelly checks out the door to see if coast is clear... It is. So she cuts the wire and sets off the alarm...then pops back in the room and goes to check out burts room. The alarm would draw a crowd to see her there, or on her way there. Then they go back to find pippin dead, she simply tosses the gun on the way there...and I doubt they could check for Prints and by the time the commotion is over she could have already cleaned her hands and played dumb.... Hell, I dunno... I'm jus saying....Quote:
Originally Posted by Kn1ckerb0cker33
I don't know about anyone else but I pictured Angel & Michael as the only ones who ran to Burt's room/Armory since I didn't here any background chatter that would indicate anyone else was around. Also everyone else were off on assignments and therefore might not be around to hear the alarm.Quote:
Originally Posted by 70DDISDEAD
As for the gun, if she threw it away (presumably in the stairwell) someone would find it. <= Probably my weakest argument as the assassin probably still has the pistol.
To Get Really Anal...
I timed the alarm from both episodes (Chapter 22 Part 1 & 2).
Chapter 22 Part 1 from the time the alarm sounds to when the assassin runs out from the room after assassinating Pippin and shooting the radio
Chapter 22 Part 2 from the time the alarm sounds to when Angel kills the alarm.
Both came out to 37 seconds (give or take a second on my part) (Kudos to KC & The Editing Team).
Also it took Michael and Angel 13 seconds to get from Burt's room and the Guard room.
Agreed on most points, well played.... I'm just throwing out ideas here..
Ok stick with me for a minute. I'm leaning toward the rat/shooter being Riley. She seemed to be I. The area when it happened, does not have a good alibi, and seemed to over react at seeing Pippin dead. ( she hid in a pile of dead bodies for god sake). I really don't know what her motive is, but I still think it's her.
That being said, at the end of this episode Kalani calls to the tower and she answers. Riley answers! What if she is the rat and instead of telling Micheal that the chopper might be salvageable she tell Durai or any other Mallers. Then then head to LAX and attack Kalani, Datu, Burt, and Saul.
I know I'm going out on a limb, but I had a pretty good silent freak out when I finished this episode and wanted to share my thoughts.
My bets on Kelly. As, a character she has developed a lot. At the start she was always challenging Micheal's authority, but became especially loyal after Tommy died. I think she probably didn't think the Mallers were so bad and contacted them, but when they got Tommy killed that all changed. She became furiously loyal to the tower, but do the Maller's know that? My bet is that Pippin was a plant only a few Maller's knew about (Duri or however you spell it). They probably let a few slaves slip gave him a little head start, and sent out search parties (Bricks, and Tardust), that would also explain how Lizzy was found and how the slaves escaped in the first place.
Back though to Kelly. She wouldn't want to disrupt the tower to the point it would collapse. I think she shot the radio so that all the teams wouldn't immediately come back because they needed to keep working. She also spent 6 hours talking to Pippin probably finding a loup hole in his story and realizing that he was a plant meant to contact or help her. He probably didn't know because of compartmentalization of the plan. If Pippin let something slip it could compromise the plan. So what the Maller's were banking on is that the traitor would find him and he would do what he was supposed too.
Besides there were more opportunities for any traitor to hand the tower over to the Mallers. The shooter has a silenced pistol there is at most 20 some people in the tower right now, if they really wanted to they could tear through most of those people without getting caught (The bretta is a 9M if I remember correctly and they have a lot of ammo for that gun).
I've worked at a gas station and had to measure fuel levels at night and I can tell you 100% that you most certainly can tell the difference between gas and diesel fuel by scent, even if you don't know what diesel smells like you'll know that it's not gas when you smell it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kn1ckerb0cker33
I don't think that hiding in a pile of dead bodies means that some one should no longer react to seeing some one who has been shot three times. Also! She was drunk, drunk people over react. She didn't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by UneasyEric
That's an extremely thoughtful take on the situation and I very much agree with it. It would enforce both of these:Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Kelly as a Rat - After the 6 hour conversation, she becomes convinced of his purpose in the tower. To those who say "Why didn't she do it while she was on duty" well, think about the fact that it would have been quite difficult to cover it up. If she had pretended it to be an ambush she would have had to see who did it. If she did it silently she would have had to see who did it. It just would have been very hard to pull off. It would have obviously put her in the spot and made it more difficult to hide her now "loyal" status.
Riley as a Rat - Her attitude has changed a lot since she came back from her little trip. She could just be dealing with her change of heart. Another thing, she jumped very quickly to say "BUT THERE'S ANOTHER RADIO RIGHT?" with almost no thought. She was extremely jumpy. Angel and Michael now placed her on guard duty (i think) and we might see her cleaning up her mess in the next episode, or at least trying to.
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST! i need some one to help me catch on something said by angel. I'm pretty sure se directed it towards Riley. He screams "Of course you left, you always leave!" (5:45-5:55). However it almost sounds like there's a 4th person in the room besides Michael, Angel, and Riley. I can't tell what she say's before that either...
help?
I went back and listened to that bit. It sounds like multiple people were showing up. I heard someone say "what happened?" and then someone ask "who was on guard?" I can't be certain but I think it was Kelly.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieMama
I wonder who those people where then... and if that was to Riley man would it frame her as the rat...Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKor
I think it was Kelly, but I can't confirm it. I was hoping KC would clear it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKor
It sounded like stressed Kelly to me. Slightly different voice, but what you might expect given the situation.
Yes, that was Kelly who came in-Quote:
Originally Posted by Kn1ckerb0cker33
:O Time to start rethinking my theories then. Thank's KC for not letting me sleep tonightQuote:
Originally Posted by Kc
I gotta disagree, the quote of the episode was Angel's "unless he's Jay Garrick" line lolQuote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Yeah, that's true, but the problem is I'm not up to speed on my Golden Age DC comics, so I had to look up who Jay Garrick was. That made me enjoy the joke less because I had to hunt for the answer :pQuote:
Originally Posted by zombiederek
Now had I known who Jay Garrick was right off the bat? Yeah, you're right. That probably would have been the line of the episode for me.
Yeah why choose Jay garrick? that's like the flash no one's ever heard of. Why not Barry allen or the wally west or someone?Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Exactly! Say either of those and I go "HA! Flash...."Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra1th
On another tangent, what do the helicopter/military experts have to say about this plan for repairing the Jolly Green Giant?