Chapter 33-3 Red Winter

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Originally Posted by Penguine

Griggs must have taken 11 days to get to Boulder. I come to this conclusion because Micheal said it was 11 days till the next transport left from Boulder to Irwin then the autopsy and they try and raise Boulder on the radio. Griggs averaged 2.7 miles per day through the mountains. Hmm... seems kind of slow.

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He must have stopped off in Denver for a snack

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Originally Posted by clem131

Damn, this is one hell of a cliffhanger!
I went back and listened to the previous one, because this failure in communication seemed just unlikely to me, but actually we don't hear what Carl is saying to Michael, so he might have omitted something. Still, I found parts of this episode a bit "funny":
- 11 days and not a moment to read a single report about the crashed Chinook affair? Especially when it interested Michael so much he organized the autopsy behind Kimmet's back?
- we all thought "damn, it's only 30 miles from Boulder, they better be careful about that". I also commented on the previous episode that if they know one single little one is coming, with all the personnel they have they can take care of it no problem. Turns out they didn't know because Carl forgot to mention about the turned soldiers and Michael didn't read the report and did not think about the remaining one as a danger? Ahem. Ok.
- besides, do they really need to be told that one zombie, however special, can breed other zombies very fast?! I though that was the safest assumption to make. Isn't that like what happened since day one? They seem so surprised.

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Hmmmm.... yeah, my suspension of disbelief was really stretched in this epidose... really? He didn't read the report all this time? Really? Griggs Longnails begins his strike at precisely the time of the autopsy / funeral? Hmmmm... a bit too convenient, if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by HardKor

Samantha's hair was red. But that is an interesting idea. They never did explain what was meant by having them "play" with their prisoners on the arena floor.
I think its more likely they just got themselves ripped apart, but the thought that they got turned into Little Ones is definitely something to consider.

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If I remember from that burnout dude (forget his name), some of the people were brought down to the arena floor and others were brought directly to the hospital, most likely to end up as Ink's Dirty Dozen. I think the 'play' on the arena floor was some kind of hideous torture.

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

I had hoped that Griggs hadn't been turned, based on the slim reed that he was the last possible witness to the conversation at the LZ in Long Beach. Guess I got that one wrong. Or did I? Several people have discussed the possiblity that ADLOs might retain some of their knowledge from when they were human. What if it goes deeper than that, and some or all of their personality/intellect survive? Could it be possible to communicate with one?

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Yeah, the conversation would go something like this:

Griggs: "Me want eat you!"
Datu: "Wait! You were once human! We can work dis out!"
Griggs: "Work out nothing. Me eatum Filipino boy!" *lunge*
Datu: "Aaaaaaaaaah!" *munch* *crunch* *slurp* gulp*


...ah, this may not be so bad. Maybe if Datu was a zombie, he would stop acting like such a pussy. :)

Holy crap, the whole time i thought, "It's gonna wake up, it's gonna sit up." (And don't tell me I'm alone, cheesy horror movies have trained us so) and then the end, wow, we could end up in bolder for the finale.

But the real question...are we gonna go back to the colony or stay with michael. Or even switch to bolder, because if you recall we have had pegs and datu lead the story before.

I wonder if they infect others with thier teeth. Tanya said it came out much easier than expected.

Remember I had that theory about Zombie Venom; way back when they were reviewing the video tape of that one biter who was salivating? I proposed that maybe the biters had the ability to "choose" who they infected. Like if they salivated enough in your wounds it was more likely to infect you, whereas if they didn't you possibly could survive a bite or scratch. Though I don't know what purpose not infecting a victim would serve. I just figured maybe that's how Datu and other playthings of Pinstripes managed to not get infected during capture.

Anywho, another reason, a more likely reason that the Inklings teeth fall off is to that they remain deadly sharp, just like a shark's teeth. Though I didn't hear Tanya comment on the sharpness of #2's teeth, just that she only had about 8 of them in the front.

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

I had hoped that Griggs hadn't been turned, based on the slim reed that he was the last possible witness to the conversation at the LZ in Long Beach. Guess I got that one wrong. Or did I? Several people have discussed the possiblity that ADLOs might retain some of their knowledge from when they were human. What if it goes deeper than that, and some or all of their personality/intellect survive? Could it be possible to communicate with one?

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I'm still with you, as far as the perspective of this story, we don't have recollection of the conversation on the ground at the LZ without Griggs alive.... There's several problems tho:

If he's not turned, how'd he get out?
If he's not turned, how did he make it weeks in the cold to Boulder?

If he IS turned, how do we hear the LZ conversation? It's possible he has a journal, or something akin to it, but when did he have time to write it? The ~1,000mile journey to the Chinook crash I guess, but I would think that entire ride would be chaos trying to keep Cap. Long alive...no?

Either way we choose is a bit far fetched given the evidence thus far, so I think Kc is going to play an angle none of us thought of, and Griggs has an epic Survivorman story to Boulder living off the wildlife somehow, and he arrives to Boulder a broken man, with no energy to even make it the final few feet to some sort of compound, so he shoots some powerlines down to get the attention of someone in the city to come get him. That's why we can't communicate with Boulder.


And to sum up where the season finale goes: The Hospital. Once they finally get ahold of Boulder and realize things are fine, Michael goes in guns blazing to find Ink, and how it all happened

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

I wonder if they infect others with thier teeth. Tanya said it came out much easier than expected.

Remember I had that theory about Zombie Venom; way back when they were reviewing the video tape of that one biter who was salivating? I proposed that maybe the biters had the ability to "choose" who they infected. Like if they salivated enough in your wounds it was more likely to infect you, whereas if they didn't you possibly could survive a bite or scratch. Though I don't know what purpose not infecting a victim would serve. I just figured maybe that's how Datu and other playthings of Pinstripes managed to not get infected during capture.

Anywho, another reason, a more likely reason that the Inklings teeth fall off is to that they remain deadly sharp, just like a shark's teeth. Though I didn't hear Tanya comment on the sharpness of #2's teeth, just that she only had about 8 of them in the front.

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I am a proponent of the 'choosing' who to infect theory, based solely on the grounds that they choose which ones to turn, and which ones to eat. The Inklings assess their need for food, eat, and turn the rest. Or if they realize they are in a losing battle, will choose to turn some of their enemies, to increase their odds.


Clever girl....

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Originally Posted by Penguine

Griggs must have taken 11 days to get to Boulder. I come to this conclusion because Micheal said it was 11 days till the next transport left from Boulder to Irwin then the autopsy and they try and raise Boulder on the radio. Griggs averaged 2.7 miles per day through the mountains. Hmm... seems kind of slow.

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Slow for a ADLO, but perhaps about par for a starving soldier with no food just trying to make it one more step (in that respect, he may cover a 5-6 miles the first few days...and eventually slow down)

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

I wonder if they infect others with thier teeth. Tanya said it came out much easier than expected.

Remember I had that theory about Zombie Venom; way back when they were reviewing the video tape of that one biter who was salivating? I proposed that maybe the biters had the ability to "choose" who they infected. Like if they salivated enough in your wounds it was more likely to infect you, whereas if they didn't you possibly could survive a bite or scratch. Though I don't know what purpose not infecting a victim would serve. I just figured maybe that's how Datu and other playthings of Pinstripes managed to not get infected during capture.

Anywho, another reason, a more likely reason that the Inklings teeth fall off is to that they remain deadly sharp, just like a shark's teeth. Though I didn't hear Tanya comment on the sharpness of #2's teeth, just that she only had about 8 of them in the front.

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I was really interested in the teeth, and I have two thoughts.

1. Remember that these original Little Ones were small at the start. Really small. What if these are still the baby/milk teeth. That would explain why there are so few and why they come out easily. If the teeth were getting ready to come out on their own then there wouldn't be much root structure and if the body had put its resourses in to growing in other areas rather than teeth they would just sit there. They don't seem to use biting as their primary attack, or at least they grab people to incapaciate them first. If this is the correct theory they would be maybe 4-7 when they turned (I can't remember properly and would have to look it up) but that would fit with the size from way back in season

2. With the bones in the jaw getting harder and stronger it could be killing the root structure of the teeth.

Either could tie in with Tanya talking about replacement teeth. I really want those X-Rays as they could provide a lot of information and maybe even age of the original little ones when they turned.
Also, I was thinking more about the nails, they must have continued to grow after the change. Not many people would have nails of that length in life, plus they seem to need to be be sharpened. That might mean they break and then re-grow.

Hmmm time to go ponder more.

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Originally Posted by HardKor

Samantha's hair was red. But that is an interesting idea. They never did explain what was meant by having them "play" with their prisoners on the arena floor.
I think its more likely they just got themselves ripped apart, but the thought that they got turned into Little Ones is definitely something to consider.

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It is an interesting idea, and is backed by Samantha demanding Datu NOT to watch...so we have no eyewitness accounts of what they do in the arena....I think it's obvious there's something to do with the hospital as well, but perhaps the arena ties in, maybe Ink holds tryouts in the arena to decide who he considers well enough to make into an Inkling.


Moreover, adding creedance to the antibiotic theory, Maybe the 'tryouts' are to see who is immune to the BASE virus. Those who survive, he pumps full of some extra shit and antibiotics and gets this ALMOST zombie hybrid of badassery. If Saul was scratched/bitten by a ADLO/Inkling, he may turn, but the norms have no affect on him.

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Originally Posted by Hoff4D

Slow for a ADLO, but perhaps about par for a starving soldier with no food just trying to make it one more step (in that respect, he may cover a 5-6 miles the first few days...and eventually slow down)

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Originally Posted by Penguine

Griggs must have taken 11 days to get to Boulder. I come to this conclusion because Micheal said it was 11 days till the next transport left from Boulder to Irwin then the autopsy and they try and raise Boulder on the radio. Griggs averaged 2.7 miles per day through the mountains. Hmm... seems kind of slow.

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What's worse is that perhaps it arrived much sooner and waited, assessing the best time to attack. Hell, it may have even spied the Black Hawk leaving the crash site and noted which direction the chopper was headed, using that as it's only bearings to find Boulder. Once there, it could have just been lurking in the nearby woods, surveying the fortifications and keeping tabs on the security. Or maybe it waited for a scouting party to come to it, then turned all of them, increasing it's numbers.

I dunno, the more I let my imagination run with it, the more these Inklings sounds pretty damn scary.

It seems a bit too coincidental that the day after Carl returns with the corpses, is the day that Ft. Irwin loses contact with Boulder. I tell you that son-of-a-gun was waiting for the chopper to leave or something. Weird.

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

What's worse is that perhaps it arrived much sooner and waited, assessing the best time to attack. Hell, it may have even spied the Black Hawk leaving the crash site and noted which direction the chopper was headed, using that as it's only bearings to find Boulder. Once there, it could have just been lurking in the nearby woods, surveying the fortifications and keeping tabs on the security. Or maybe it waited for a scouting party to come to it, then turned all of them, increasing it's numbers.

I dunno, the more I let my imagination run with it, the more these Inklings sounds pretty damn scary.

It seems a bit too coincidental that the day after Carl returns with the corpses, is the day that Ft. Irwin loses contact with Boulder. I tell you that son-of-a-gun was waiting for the chopper to leave or something. Weird.

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As I read this, <edit> You're </edit> talking me into my own theory more that they choose who to eat, and who to turn via some bodily functions, and they are the distant relatives of Velociraptors, turned by the Jurassic Haze pouring out of the planets.

Really, Pterodactyls are just around the corner...

Oh and a thought on Michael not having read the journal. Notice that Tanya also didn't seem to have read the report.
Maybe Kimmett grabbed the reports first and had them for a while and when he didn't notice anything out of the ordinary (not noticed though his haze of grief).
And it sounds like the rescue team went to Boulder first, where the body was, so Michaels would have got a lot of the information from radio/sat phone reports, and by the time the reports came in not have thought it was such a priority to read them.
Yes, he should have read them, but this chain of events might make it more likely why he hadn't after 11 days.

News Report from Boulder, Co... Masssive snow storm knocks out all power to the city, stay tuned for more from Chanel 7 News... Massive Army response from Ft. Irwin arrived this morning to deal with the massive snow storm and restore power, city still secure, stay tuned to Channel 7 News for more at 10pm...

Here we are all thinking/hoping for the worst, and watch it turn out to be anti-climactic. LOL.. That would suck.

I agree with cakes, Michael probably felt he had a good understanding of the situation from what he heard over the phone call. Plus I'm certain Kimmet had him doing other shit in those 11 days. I doubt he was just sitting on his ass playing Gameboy. He was likely on more missions in nearby areas, scavenging, and the like. In my opinion, he probably bumped the written report down on his list of priorities. He and Carl had a little tiff over it because Carl did mention that Robbins was shooting other soldiers that were turning, but the whole phone call was stressed so some details might have been lost. It was a just a miscommunication, but I sensed that Michael was in the wrong and got a little upset and defensive.

Haven't you ever known you are wrong yet you still get upset that someone calls you out on it? Tanya saw through the bullshit and knew it was pointless to argue. She seems to understand Michael pretty well now. I say kudos to Tanya for getting the conversation back on track.

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Originally Posted by Penguine

News Report from Boulder, Co... Masssive snow storm knocks out all power to the city, stay tuned for more from Chanel 7 News... Massive Army response from Ft. Irwin arrived this morning to deal with the massive snow storm and restore power, city still secure, stay tuned to Channel 7 News for more at 10pm...

Here we are all thinking/hoping for the worst, and watch it turn out to be anti-climactic. LOL.. That would suck.

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massivelyanti-climactic? *snicker*

Something doesn't smell right to me with regards to the Boulder situation. I find it hard to believe that the last word from them was only two hours prior to them finding out about Griggs.

Not only that but if Griggs had attacked, surely someone, somewhere, would've reported some form of a mayday to Irwin. How can (and I quote) 'all of their systems' be offline after a one-zombie attack; without even one 'emergency code' being sent to Irwin?

Unless I've grossly underestimated zombie Griggs I cannot see how he can wipe out an entire colony without word getting out.

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Originally Posted by Privateer

What was the antibiotic given to Saul? Pinstripes was in a hospital... Could have been dumping far too many meds, and created antibiotic resistent strains?

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Saul was on a 1000 mg each of Vancomycin and clindomycin to very powerful last resort antiboitics.

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

I agree with cakes, Michael probably felt he had a good understanding of the situation from what he heard over the phone call. Plus I'm certain Kimmet had him doing other shit in those 11 days. I doubt he was just sitting on his ass playing Gameboy. He was likely on more missions in nearby areas, scavenging, and the like. In my opinion, he probably bumped the written report down on his list of priorities. He and Carl had a little tiff over it because Carl did mention that Robbins was shooting other soldiers that were turning, but the whole phone call was stressed so some details might have been lost. It was a just a miscommunication, but I sensed that Michael was in the wrong and got a little upset and defensive.

Haven't you ever known you are wrong yet you still get upset that someone calls you out on it? Tanya saw through the bullshit and knew it was pointless to argue. She seems to understand Michael pretty well now. I say kudos to Tanya for getting the conversation back on track.

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I think that Michael, while having other things on his plate, may have assumed that there was not much to read about and assumed tjat everything carl told him was there.

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Originally Posted by Litmaster

Hmmmm.... yeah, my suspension of disbelief was really stretched in this epidose... really? He didn't read the report all this time? Really? Griggs Longnails begins his strike at precisely the time of the autopsy / funeral? Hmmmm... a bit too convenient, if you ask me.

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Yeah, regrettably even I have to agree with that. There was a structure change near the last minute before recording on the 7th draft and there's now a little hanging chad that I don't like that got left over. I will be doing a small tweak on this before the remaster. The story will be the same. I only mention it because I too agree that it feels a little sloppy.

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Originally Posted by cupcakezombie

Oh and a thought on Michael not having read the journal. Notice that Tanya also didn't seem to have read the report.
Maybe Kimmett grabbed the reports first and had them for a while and when he didn't notice anything out of the ordinary (not noticed though his haze of grief).
And it sounds like the rescue team went to Boulder first, where the body was, so Michaels would have got a lot of the information from radio/sat phone reports, and by the time the reports came in not have thought it was such a priority to read them.
Yes, he should have read them, but this chain of events might make it more likely why he hadn't after 11 days.

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If this was the first flight back from Boulder after the Chinook crash how much do you want to bet that Carl's report came back on the same plane? I can picture Carl getting a sealed courier satchel in Boulder to carry back to Fort Irwin that contains his report, now classified to the point that he doesn't have clearance to read it, let alone know that he's carrying it.

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

If this was the first flight back from Boulder after the Chinook crash how much do you want to bet that Carl's report came back on the same plane? I can picture Carl getting a sealed courier satchel in Boulder to carry back to Fort Irwin that contains his report, now classified to the point that he doesn't have clearance to read it, let alone know that he's carrying it.

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Bingo. And that's not as clear as it should be in the story. It'll be an easy fix.

Oh, and before I forget, props on the music in the Beginning of the Episode. It was delightfully retro and gave the feeling of dark pulpy adventure. So, props to that little bit of atmosphere during Michael's VO.

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Originally Posted by Privateer

Oh, and before I forget, props on the music in the Beginning of the Episode. It was delightfully retro and gave the feeling of dark pulpy adventure. So, props to that little bit of atmosphere during Michael's VO.

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Thanks. We used that a lot in the first season. It's sorta retro for us ;)

I also just want to note that in Part 2 we're getting a direct report from Robbins, yet he didnt come back on this plane to Ft. Irwin (or so it seems in his absence with something he had hands on bringing back)

So my assumption, based on the syntax we're subscribed to via the journals and such, Robbins is either a last surviving member of the Boulder crew, or Boulder is fine and merely offline due to a storm power outage, ADLO-Griggs knocking out a power/communications hub, cuz its super smart (read: Burt from Season 1 pointing out smart ones have badges from Radon labs, and Skittles pointing out to avoid doctors offices and Bookstores, as they are smarter) and a good amount of knowledge to begin with, MAY be retained in zombie form, so Griggs knows where to go, and how to attack, OR my favorite theory, as stated before, a distressed 2-week strung out near-dead Griggs on the run shoots out some comm lines in a last ditch effort to get attention and get saved.

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Originally Posted by Hoff4D

I also just want to note that in Part 2 we're getting a direct report from Robbins, yet he didnt come back on this plane to Ft. Irwin (or so it seems in his absence with something he had hands on bringing back)

So my assumption, based on the syntax we're subscribed to via the journals and such, Robbins is either a last surviving member of the Boulder crew, or Boulder is fine and merely offline due to a storm power outage, ADLO-Griggs knocking out a power/communications hub, cuz its super smart (read: Burt from Season 1 pointing out smart ones have badges from Radon labs, and Skittles pointing out to avoid doctors offices and Bookstores, as they are smarter) and a good amount of knowledge to begin with, MAY be retained in zombie form, so Griggs knows where to go, and how to attack, OR my favorite theory, as stated before, a distressed 2-week strung out near-dead Griggs on the run shoots out some comm lines in a last ditch effort to get attention and get saved.

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Or Robbins sent his report back with the other report on the plane to Irwin. There /is/ a storm, but its a question as to if KC plans on making Boulder go boom, thus destroying the only signifigant survivor population, or if we're going to get a tense time as the team hunts down Griggs. Or maybe, becauase of the storm, their chopper goes down, and they have to survive until rescued. Or yes, maybe we get The Gray 2 starring Griggs. Actually, that'd be the most awesome....

Actually, the other zombies were still milling outside the helicoptor. If Griggs had been turned, wouldn't he have stuck around too?

Pfft....this pisode sucked.................... ;)

I had thoughts of independence day during the autopsy, but it was only fleeting. Ever hear that court room transcript of the lawyer asking the coroner if the "patient" may have been alive at the time of their autopsy? Coroner says no. Lawyer says how can you be sure? Coroner says the subject's brain was removed and on a scale on his desk. Lawyer says so its possible. Coroner replied sure I guess he could have been practicing law.

Long way of saying once the organs started to be shifted I had no fears.

I'm glad kimmet finally listened. Does suck that he's too late. But now we know how we got Mr. adult friend finders journal/log. Which i now see privateer beat me too it. If we hear from boulder before a team is sent, I'll be surprised if it isn't "found footage". But at the least Pegs survives to keep my dream alive

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Pfft....this pisode sucked.................... ;)

I had thoughts of independence day during the autopsy, but it was only fleeting. Ever hear that court room transcript of the lawyer asking the coroner if the "patient" may have been alive at the time of their autopsy? Coroner says no. Lawyer says how can you be sure? Coroner says the subject's brain was removed and on a scale on his desk. Lawyer says so its possible. Coroner replied sure I guess he could have been practicing law.

Long way of saying once the organs started to be shifted I had no fears.

I'm glad kimmet finally listened. Does suck that he's too late. But now we know how we got Mr. adult friend finders journal/log. Which i now see privateer beat me too it. If we hear from boulder before a team is sent, I'll be surprised if it isn't "found footage". But at the least Pegs survives to keep my dream alive

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Yep, my bad, that report could definitely be delivered back now that you've pointed that out.... I'm still standing by (As privateer so eloquently put it) the Grey 2 theory tho, lol

Another note. We kinda got an impression of Kimmet's leadership style in this episode, and apparently its asshole to the men. Now, of course, hes grieving, his neice is dead, but he can't bother to glance at a soldiers name tape, is dissmissive of their concerns, and,while he'd recognize Tanya, the one soldier in his command with a French accent he doesn't seem to bother recalling at all, despite Michael's discussion of getting her out into the field. Kinda a stretch, but, he seems very dissmissive of most ideas coming from his own damn intelligence Sergeant. "More LA stories, collaborated through timely, written accounts and interviews with like, 6 survivors? Come back when a soldier who hasn't been there before spends a few days and puts it on a map."

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Originally Posted by Pillars

I also thought about how the LO's eyes were normal compared to regulars. Also when Ink was in the tower Michael described his eyes as being bright green. It seems that Ink and the Little Ones have normal eyes. Maybe some importance maybe not. Thoughts?

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Eyes are traditionally "windows to the soul". In the LO's case, their eyes are still clear, which is why I'm thinking these are some human/zombie hybrid. They still have a hint of clarity, of humanity. We don't have much evidence of it, but I believe the Little Ones are really smart. Eyes also communicate intelligence--think to all of the people who describe an encounter with a whale or dolphin "you can just look into its eyes and you know that it's thinking". I think they're perfectly capable of learning, planning, using tools and technology. Plus, they're developing physically and it only makes sense that they'd be developing mentally too. It's possible that the transition from human to LO just resets all of the synapses of their brains. The infection grows valves and arteries on hearts, so rewiring a brain isn't too farfetched. It's almost like they're children all over again -- relearning how to manipulate their environments to get the outcomes they want. From then on, it's operant conditioning. Good behaviors get repeated; You learn from what you observe, so sit in the shadows or hang in the trees and watch. If they can still understand the concept of death (something a normal zombie doesn't even consider), they can feel danger, maybe even fear, which would further encourage careful planning and risk analysis.

I'm pretty stuck on the idea that Ink is their creator, and we know there are at least 12, right? I love the idea that we have NO idea how many he's created. He could still be creating and numbering away in his lab. The fact that Ink numbers his creations intrigues me. Normally, things that you care about (even lab subjects) have names. Numbers are the opposite of humanizing. Numbers are for criminals and masses. The Jews in Auschwitz were tattooed with numbers, too. The human survivors are clinging to names as a societal comfort, and they get uncomfortable when that is taken away, like Kimmet's refusal to read Carl's nametag.

So what if their selection isn't so much an honor. Maybe it's a punishment. It could explain the self-inflicted wounds too. It could be repentance, a pain response, a response to psychological trauma, who knows? Maybe retaining some humanity is actually a curse for the special ones... Maybe they can still feel all their human emotions?

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Originally Posted by Natagora

Something doesn't smell right to me with regards to the Boulder situation. I find it hard to believe that the last word from them was only two hours prior to them finding out about Griggs.

Not only that but if Griggs had attacked, surely someone, somewhere, would've reported some form of a mayday to Irwin. How can (and I quote) 'all of their systems' be offline after a one-zombie attack; without even one 'emergency code' being sent to Irwin?

Unless I've grossly underestimated zombie Griggs I cannot see how he can wipe out an entire colony without word getting out.

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Short of an EMP, which I doubt, it does seem hard to believe all systems go out at once. Maybe knocking out power would kill phones, computers, telegraph, etc. but what about satellite phones, seems logical someone would get off a SOS.


Until proven wrong, I'm still inclined to think there was more than 1 cling-on outside the Chinook. They did say there were 5 holes which were all assumed to be made by #2, but maybe not. Maybe there's more than Griggs roaming near Boulder.

Anyone else hold their breath during the autopsy? I was waiting on every single syllable that came out of Tanya's mouth.

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Originally Posted by ferroaj

Eyes are traditionally "windows to the soul". In the LO's case, their eyes are still clear, which is why I'm thinking these are some human/zombie hybrid. They still have a hint of clarity, of humanity. We don't have much evidence of it, but I believe the Little Ones are really smart. Eyes also communicate intelligence--think to all of the people who describe an encounter with a whale or dolphin "you can just look into its eyes and you know that it's thinking". I think they're perfectly capable of learning, planning, using tools and technology. Plus, they're developing physically and it only makes sense that they'd be developing mentally too. It's possible that the transition from human to LO just resets all of the synapses of their brains. The infection grows valves and arteries on hearts, so rewiring a brain isn't too farfetched. It's almost like they're children all over again -- relearning how to manipulate their environments to get the outcomes they want. From then on, it's operant conditioning. Good behaviors get repeated; You learn from what you observe, so sit in the shadows or hang in the trees and watch. If they can still understand the concept of death (something a normal zombie doesn't even consider), they can feel danger, maybe even fear, which would further encourage careful planning and risk analysis.

I'm pretty stuck on the idea that Ink is their creator, and we know there are at least 12, right? I love the idea that we have NO idea how many he's created. He could still be creating and numbering away in his lab. The fact that Ink numbers his creations intrigues me. Normally, things that you care about (even lab subjects) have names. Numbers are the opposite of humanizing. Numbers are for criminals and masses. The Jews in Auschwitz were tattooed with numbers, too. The human survivors are clinging to names as a societal comfort, and they get uncomfortable when that is taken away, like Kimmet's refusal to read Carl's nametag.

So what if their selection isn't so much an honor. Maybe it's a punishment. It could explain the self-inflicted wounds too. It could be repentance, a pain response, a response to psychological trauma, who knows? Maybe retaining some humanity is actually a curse for the special ones... Maybe they can still feel all their human emotions?

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I think the 'self-inflicted wounds' we see has something to do with the way in which the virus is passed, at least as far as the little ones virus is. Based on the crummy teeth, and previous theory of choosing who to turn and who to eat, I think they scratch more to turn, not bite. Think of a little one scratching a human, it would be a crazy big scratch due to those nails, and if you grow substantially following this to be a 6' + ADLO, the scratches would make sense to grow as well, making them more prominent.....They may appear self-inflicted, but perhaps they are just the means of turning.

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Originally Posted by Mikey Famine

Anyone else hold their breath during the autopsy? I was waiting on every single syllable that came out of Tanya's mouth.

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I was! I kept thinking the LO was going to come back to life. At the end of the episode all I wanted to do was scream NOOOOOO!!! Because I didn't want it to end, and I don't want to wait for the next episode.:mad:

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Originally Posted by Kc

I will be doing a small tweak on this before the remaster. The story will be the same.

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Remaster in the sense of new version of #33-3 or remaster in the sense of audio-cd-version?

Wow, seems like almost everything I had to say has already been said.

Anyone else notice that the date of this episode puts the story at the Colony and Fort Irwin on the same day? December 16th.

Tanya says that :
The Inkling has almost no body hair (Can be taken two ways, No body hair like dolphins and whales are hairless, or no body hair as in no pubic hair)
The Inkling was flat chested (Could be due to undeveloped breasts or over developed pectoral muscles.)
A number of missing teeth yet growing others in the mouth.
Lack of root developement in teeth.
Stretch marks down the length of the limbs.
Unable to tell the level of sexual maturity.

Sounds like they very well may have started as children after all.

During the autopsy I kept expecting one of those little things that live inside the Daleks on Doctor Who to jump out and scurry across the floor.
I'm soooo glad that there wasn't a mixup with the bodies. That would have been too Three's Company-ish.
I find it strange, too, that Boulder can't be reached hours after pvt. Thomas leaves. Even Kalani managed to get out a radio call when the other tower was being over-run.
Infact, communication seems to go quickly. Someone mentioned an EMP (Cabbagepatch) an EMP would take out more than the telecom system. Almosty all electronic devices world have failed. Can't help thinking of the 28 days Later. What if the pacific states are quarentined from the rest of the world?

Gott to go to bed, beginning to type crazy suff.

Holy crap! Just finally listened, oh man oh man i was on edge during that autopsy...but what the hell was michael doing for the two weeks since the recovery mission to the autopsy that he as the head intel guy hasnt read that report yet?!

Also the fact that absolutely no emergency message made its way out makes me think that it really isnt an emergency at all and indeed the weather has affected comms. Remember when michael and the gang first arrive at fort Irwin...the end of that chapter where they are walking away from the chopper, listening, then we hear a zombie and Michael says 'oh shit', and we leave that episode thinking the place is full of zombies, but it turned out to just be one. I think this is the same thing.

Little ones, yup im more confidant that they were from the nursery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

Wow, seems like almost everything I had to say has already been said.

Anyone else notice that the date of this episode puts the story at the Colony and Fort Irwin on the same day? December 16th.

Tanya says that :
The Inkling has almost no body hair (Can be taken two ways, No body hair like dolphins and whales are hairless, or no body hair as in no pubic hair)
The Inkling was flat chested (Could be due to undeveloped breasts or over developed pectoral muscles.)
A number of missing teeth yet growing others in the mouth.
Lack of root developement in teeth.
Stretch marks down the length of the limbs.
Unable to tell the level of sexual maturity.

Sounds like they very well may have started as children after all.

During the autopsy I kept expecting one of those little things that live inside the Daleks on Doctor Who to jump out and scurry across the floor.
I'm soooo glad that there wasn't a mixup with the bodies. That would have been too Three's Company-ish.
I find it strange, too, that Boulder can't be reached hours after pvt. Thomas leaves. Even Kalani managed to get out a radio call when the other tower was being over-run.
Infact, communication seems to go quickly. Someone mentioned an EMP (Cabbagepatch) an EMP would take out more than the telecom system. Almosty all electronic devices world have failed. Can't help thinking of the 28 days Later. What if the pacific states are quarentined from the rest of the world?

Gott to go to bed, beginning to type crazy suff.

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Thank you, sharp eared person! I kinda figured things were going on in Tandem, but I didn't realize that both days were the same... hmm... we should pay attention to that! I have a feeling that the timing is going to be very important in the next couple chapters.

See, me, I don't know if I was worried about it getting up again, but I was worried about Tanya or Riley cutting themselves, or otherwise infecting themselves. That would've been baaaaaaaaad.

And, hmm. I had thought of that, but, putting all the data together, it does look like the little one's started as children. Wooooow, Pinstripes just got one level scarier.

I don't think its an EMP device. We've got no indication that anyone /has/ an EMP device, or would want to use one. I do think that the storm took down some lines, and is causing problems with Radio and SatPhone communications. Just so happens to happen right after the warning. I mean, unless KC plans on killing Boulder, which... I don't think will happen. Boulder is the last bastion of civilization and humanity. If it goes, and is not replaced, a lot of the work Michael is doing to figure out the nature of things becomes.... well, a bit meaningless. Facilities for manufacturing and serious research would be limited, but, without a sizable human population, what are they working to save?

That being said, I don't put it past our favorite writer, not at all!

As for a quarantine of the west coast, I had thought about that too, considering they haven't had any communications /with/ that side of the country. Its a fun thought, that should they scout out, they'll find... something hopeful. But that means the east coast would have to have had voluntarily shut down communications with the West, and that would be silly, considering they have a loyal military command on the west coast, they don't have any reason to /shut down/ communications. I could see Kimmet knowing and not telling anyone, but we haven't gotten any indication the the Colonel is holding something that huge back, and Sergeant Cross, being in intelligence, would've probably sniffed /something/ out. But, maybe no one knows the proper phone number.

Brings to question, does anyone remember if the our survivors tried to utilize a HAM radio, shortwave, or anything else that might have superior range to whatever was normally available (I imagine Boulder probably has an AM/FM transmitting station, at least.)

I did a little research to see what was happening in Boulder, CO during our time line on December 16, 2009. That was the day of the Boulder Homebrewers Festival. No one's answering the phones? Maybe not a problem after all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kc

Thanks. We used that a lot in the first season. It's sorta retro for us ;)

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I am also very curious about the foley for this. Please tell me you're putting a video on your youtube account with you messing with chicken livers on the stage!!! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Privateer

Brings to question, does anyone remember if the our survivors tried to utilize a HAM radio, shortwave, or anything else that might have superior range to whatever was normally available (I imagine Boulder probably has an AM/FM transmitting station, at least.)

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Glenn mentions both HAM and Shortwave in his telecom grab bag back at the colony. The radio silence is just mystifying. An EMP can be created by exploding a nuke above the atmosphere but that would also knock out other electronics. Sat phone and GPS satellites are still working.

Also, NAVY vessels; subs, aircraft carrier groups... wouldn't they still be out there?

Guessing the next chapter will split between Colony/Irwin/Boulder or some combination of two out of the three.

Now that the chapter is over does anyone have a clue as to what the title means? I'm probably over-thinking it. It's winter, things are going to get bloody. Nuff said, right? Red Winter, pretty straight forward, huh? On Facebook KC mentioned liking Game of Thrones when announcing the title and I thought that may have something to do with it.

Thoughts?

I think it was just in regards to the death and mayhem during the recovery mission. A battle in the snow.