Chapter 23 Pt 2 - The Devil's Workshop

the entire time i was yelling "FUCKING RILEY!! TIE THE CLOTH TO AN ARROW AND SHOOT IT UP THERE!!!" but i'm sure the weight of the cloth might weigh it down and screw up the trajectory, but still hospital Sheets don't weigh very much.

oh, and i was getting wet eyes when Saul was listening to the tape :P

Bah, the short episodes are just enough to get me all back into the story, but I want more! That said, the girly side of me was super excited when Lizzie had to make sure that Saul knew she loved him. I went AWWWWWW inside. Also, I am at a total loss as to what's going to happen with the 4 in the hospital.

I'm really digging this idea of the name of the whole story being a double meaning. It definitely seems like the Zombies are gaining knowledge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HardKor

I hate to pull a triple post here, but a thought just popped into my head.
In the beginning of the episode, while we're following Saul's search for Lizzie, we here's Burt's attempts to contact Saul over the radio. Meaning that Saul's part of the episode takes place before all hell breaks loose at the hospital. So now I'm wondering what the odds are the Saul shows up at the hospital to save the day with one of his famous "Hail Marys" that anger Ra1th so much.

---

That's a point, if they're on the same channel does that mean that Saul could hear the entire exchange between Burt/Angel and Riley/Kalani? If he figures out where they are, he might be able to do something

I really believe that Scratch is going to kill Liz. Saul will find them. She will go "It is 2 of the 3 people that took the tankers. What? You are an item? Well in that case..."

I remember at the old forums, right before season two started, there was a "Theories on Season 2" thread. KC made a post with only one line in it.. "If you hate Scratch now wait untill next season" or something to that effect. I think Scratch is going to be the death of Lizzy in some fashion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verse

I really believe that Scratch is going to kill Liz. Saul will find them. She will go "It is 2 of the 3 people that took the tankers. What? You are an item? Well in that case..."

I remember at the old forums, right before season two started, there was a "Theories on Season 2" thread. KC made a post with only one line in it.. "If you hate Scratch now wait untill next season" or something to that effect. I think Scratch is going to be the death of Lizzy in some fashion.

---

I don't think she would have wasted time rescuing her if she was going to kill her. I still believe she'll be used as a bargaining chip.

What if Saul saves Lizzy but gets shot in the process. But there are no doctors or vet dr's around to help. What if Saul dies??? Everyone keeps saying he can't have his mom and his girl so what if he gets neither and he is the one to go. Leaving his girl and his mother to bond and share the grief.

Just a thought.

Oh God. The recording. I cried.

This is terrible.

Also, to whoever said it, I'm all for Skittles popping up out of nowhere at this point. I don't want anyone to gooooooo ;__;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VeritableHero

Not to argue a small point but pinstripes are by definition small and usually not very easy to see. It can still be a pinstriped suit.

---

Agreed.

OMFG! I don't want Angel to die! *sigh* Thank you KC, for distracting me and making me suck at Halo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smalls kenobi

the entire time i was yelling "FUCKING RILEY!! TIE THE CLOTH TO AN ARROW AND SHOOT IT UP THERE!!!" but i'm sure the weight of the cloth might weigh it down and screw up the trajectory, but still hospital Sheets don't weigh very much.

---

I really like that idea. Too bad none of the characters thought of it. Come to think of it, I didn't either.

I forget, does Riley use a crossbow or a compound bow? (I think it's safe to rule out composite bows)

Depending on the bow, I've seen anecdotal quotes of being able to shoot max distance of 50-300 yards. Standard floor heights are 8 foot each. Angel and Burt were up 6 floors (48 feet / 16 yards). I'm pretty sure that given Riley's aptitude with a bow, she would be able to successfully launch the sheets back up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bulldog711

first question.....did anyone hear what the zombie said on Lizzy's recording?

---

I believe, along with another number of people so far, that the "zombie" said "move" and the other groan might have been a "go," suggesting that there is a chain of command amongst them and that they can communicate with each other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by j0be

Well, I'm back to the artwork. Riley (and most likely Kalani) are still on their way to see the pinstriped zombie somewhere in the hospital. Either they are going back for Burt and Angel, or they will meet ol' pinstripe on their way to the helicopter.

---

I agree with the possibility of Riley and Kalani going back for Burt and Angel, possibly with a daring rescue with the chopper, so I'm with you there HardKor (Heroic Rescue).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HardKor

So after all that, here's my possibilities:
A) Burt dies and goes out in a blaze of glory: This makes for a good heroic sacrifice and just feels right.

B) Angel dies and Burt lives: This would really reinforce the "anybody can die" aspect of the show and brings in a bit of reality. Death doesn't always make sense or follow what people would expect.

C) Heroic Rescue: The Tolkien solution as I'm thinking of it. It gives us a triumphant moment where everything turns out alright and our characters make it out with some glorious stores to tell.

D) They both die and everyone is sad. Tragedy, we've been set up for it and if this happens, that set up will bee fulfilled.

The thing is all these possibilities seem...well, possible.

---

Hmm, as far as these possibilities go, I would go A or C. If anyone is going to die, it probably would be Burt but I'm personally in favor of the heroic rescue because I think these two characters still have too much to offer to the story line, also I personally think it might be more of KC's style. But who knows, I'll probably be wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eviebae

Or more likely being taken to the hospital. That's why you hear the zombies up close and personal in the recording.

---

I don't think that they were taken away by the zombies, unless they were ambushed after escaping from the attack on the arena (I heard either tires screeching or "zombies" screaming but I didn't hear any human struggle).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ra1th

This is what I've been waiting for since day 1. Angel is finally showing leadership. He was the one the people looked to for leadership and orders. It's been setting up for this situation this whole episode. This entire set of characters that have been assembled are perfect for this. Riley and Kalani are Angel's best supporters, and then there's Burt. Burt is a strong leadership character, he was someone that Angel had to overcome. At the end of the day, Burt was in the second in command role. He was giving ideas and plans, but the final call came from Angel. Son of a bitch finally did it. That being said, I don't think it's over just yet. He finally made some significant progress in leadership, but he's not at Micheal's level. Not yet.

Also Saul, I hate you. Why are you so damn lucky so damn often. Keep makin' those hail marys man. You'll fail... eventually.

---

Are we listening to the same podcast? I didn't hear Burt being submissive at all and after listening to it three times (while folding laundry) it seemed like Burt was the one who was giving orders (Angel did have the idea about the rope and roof though, no to discredit him). I'm pretty sure that Burt was the one who told Angel to tell Riley and Kalani to head for the chopper and leave them behind. I did think that Angel showed some growth by accepting that he and Burt were probably done for and for pleading Riley and Kalani to move on without them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdrianHD

So I got thinking:

What if this is turning into I Am Legend? The zombies out-number the humans, so what if it's the zombies who see the humans as the real 'creatures'? The zombies are becoming more human like and more intelligent. What if "We're Alive" refers to the zombies being alive rather than the humans?

---

Damn nikvoodoo & AdrianHD you beat me to it. I was beginning to think the same thing a few episodes ago too =P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smalls kenobi

the entire time i was yelling "FUCKING RILEY!! TIE THE CLOTH TO AN ARROW AND SHOOT IT UP THERE!!!" but i'm sure the weight of the cloth might weigh it down and screw up the trajectory, but still hospital Sheets don't weigh very much.

oh, and i was getting wet eyes when Saul was listening to the tape :P

---

Nice idea, I wasn't thinking about that at the time =P. I was thinking about a heroic choppa rescue where Burt and Angel jump on the choppa's landing gear (I know 80's and 90's movie cheese XD)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VeritableHero

Not to argue a small point but pinstripes are by definition small and usually not very easy to see. It can still be a pinstriped suit.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kc

Agreed.

---

Thanks Kc for opening new theories that will be argued with for the next two weeks XD

I didn't see this mentioned and I just re listened to the episode for the second time and had to pull over so I could post from my phone, but did anyone notice at the end of the episode at about 16:03 Burt says about Kilani and Riley, "I didn't see it myself but he told me they eventually walked away and into the roof access leading inside, it was just the 2 of us now." Proof positive that Burt is telling this at a later date and makes it through enough to talk to Kilani.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beesting

I didn't see this mentioned and I just re listened to the episode for the second time and had to pull over so I could post from my phone, but did anyone notice at the end of the episode at about 16:03 Burt says about Kilani and Riley, "I didn't see it myself but he told me they eventually walked away and into the roof access leading inside, it was just the 2 of us now." Proof positive that Burt is telling this at a later date and makes it through enough to talk to Kilani.

---

Burt was saying that Angel told him that Kalani and Riley walked away and into the roof access.
Burt's narration does seem to make his survival more likely though, unless he takes the time to write all this down while waiting to die. But that seems like an odd thing for Burt to do in that situation.

I thought last weeks episode was good.... Well this one tops the list of amazing. This is probably THE most powerful episode that Kc and Co. have produced. It tugs at emotions, emotions that are frequently ignored in this story. Kc you are my favorite writer, second to Shakespeare. You are an amazing writer Kc, no doubt about it. I'm not even going to theorize this week OR next week. Not until the third part of Chapter 23 is out because there is no point in trying to guess what is going to happen in this situation. And to everybody who says someone is going to die, well that happens and it will be written beautifully.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by beesting

I didn't see this mentioned and I just re listened to the episode for the second time and had to pull over so I could post from my phone, but did anyone notice at the end of the episode at about 16:03 Burt says about Kilani and Riley, "I didn't see it myself but he told me they eventually walked away and into the roof access leading inside, it was just the 2 of us now." Proof positive that Burt is telling this at a later date and makes it through enough to talk to Kilani.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HardKor

Burt was saying that Angel told him that Kalani and Riley walked away and into the roof access.
Burt's narration does seem to make his survival more likely though, unless he takes the time to write all this down while waiting to die. But that seems like an odd thing for Burt to do in that situation.

---

Sounds plausible. One heroic rescue coming up! (We'll see).

Oh and I guess we're getting closer to figuring out whether or not Riley has a thing for Angel

Like many people said, did we listen to the same episode?

I do not think Burt is resigned to death or defeatist . But, he is committed to getting the mission accomplished. When Angel was not about to let go of the door handle. Burt says he does not expect him to.

Burt and Angel are on the ten floor of a ten story building. If the kid gobblers are playing kiddy soccer, Riley and Kalani should have an easy time up to the helicopter. They could also climb out a tenth story window of high rise section and help Burt and or Angel to the roof. The helicopter could be landed on the tenth floor. In addition, the higher they go, the better reception the radios have. Instead of going through walls and walls of concrete and rebar, it can go down through the air to Pegs and crew at LAX or Saul or back at the tower.

If Pegs does get the helicopter up in the air and sees Saul. Will he Cowboy up and postpone the Lizzie quest long enough to rig a rope line to airlift our friends at the hospital?

Do the zombies at the door lose Interest and walk away? Does a smart one shoe them away?

I do not know how much crap there is in this room. But it should be possible to wedge something between the opposite wall and the door if it opens into the room. I do not know how much of an overhang the roof has. It is probably not possible to climb up bed frame turned sideways and reach the roof, but it is worth a look. They have a fire truck, but it is a pumper not a hook and ladder.


Ggggrrrr! Michael, your spreading your team too thin! The only way to the hospital helicopter is by air assault. The hospital is indefensible. Any team asked to hold the door would be overrun. Then it is an old fashion coon hunt. The hounds tree the coon and then the hunter comes and shoots the poor thing.


Sorry, I am having a lot of 9/11 flashbacks and not thinking as well as I should

Art, in New York

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zombiehead

To me it sounded like it said "move ahead.... move."

---

Back in chap 10 when Ink was in the tower, he never really spoke. He just repeated things. He said, "help us.." And "paul," but he never made a real sentence.

I believe him saying "move" or whatever is him repeating scratch and others. They were yelling "move" and such.

Right? Anyone w/ me?

when saul was listening to lizzies recording it sounded a lot like the zombie said "move" and then you heard them all running. pretty scary
Edit: also after looking at the art for the podcast as a whole and for this chapter the character looks the same to me, but i could be wrong.
Also i think that the zombies are trying to get more bodies (part 1) since the arena got blown up (along with the zombies piles of bodies) and they might just capture angel and bert, not necessarily killing them, just a thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colostome boy

when saul was listening to lizzies recording it sounded a lot like the zombie said "move" and then you heard them all running. pretty scary
Edit: also after looking at the art for the podcast as a whole and for this chapter the character looks the same to me, but i could be wrong.
Also i think that the zombies are trying to get more bodies (part 1) since the arena got blown up (along with the zombies piles of bodies) and they might just capture angel and bert, not necessarily killing them, just a thought.

---

thats what I thought too. im also one for the whole "riley just shoot a damn arrow with the sheet attached DAMNIT!!!!" thing. but its not plausible.

I know a lot of people think Riley's a lesbian, but I just can't shake the feeling that she's got the hots for Angel. She's gonna pull something off, and I'm betting she'll save both him AND Burt.

Everyone's had very interesting perspectives so far on the situation. Now... the two-week wait. UGH!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HardKor

http://zombiepodcast.com/forum/showt...+We%27re+Alive

---

Thanks! =3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hollomandious

Back in chap 10 when Ink was in the tower, he never really spoke. He just repeated things. He said, "help us.." And "paul," but he never made a real sentence.

I believe him saying "move" or whatever is him repeating scratch and others. They were yelling "move" and such.

Right? Anyone w/ me?

---

Dang. Just listened for the 4th time today, and realized my memory was a lil off.

Dang. Thought I was on to something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fishie

That's a point, if they're on the same channel does that mean that Saul could hear the entire exchange between Burt/Angel and Riley/Kalani? If he figures out where they are, he might be able to do something

---

In they hospital they are using short range walkie talkies (per angel as they went in to the hosp). The stuff Saul heard from Burt was CB.

Riley and Kalani take the bed sheets and get to the helicopter. Tie the sheets onto one of the landing bars with that knot of Kalani's, fly over and let Angel climb up into the helicopter, Burt can run and grab it and then they fly away. We already know the sheets were able to hold Kalani's weight it was just that the sheets were rubbing against the brick of the building. On the bars there will be no friction like that to cut it.

Please let this be what happens.

Fantastic episode.

Now I want to go back and correct last chapter's prediction tally because Bricks, Tar and Lizzy did all survive the blast.

I'm also curious as to what people would say to there not having been a massive attack by the zombies yet. We've seen a group of 20-ish attempt to attack and abscond with Tanya, and we know there's a huuuuge pile of zed heads at the hospital but how many were chasing after them? hmm....Wonder if I can call that inconclusive at the moment.

As for the arrows hoisting the sheets back up to the 10th floor: I don't think it's possible. Even if you deconstruct the rope and send it back up piece by piece, each individual sheet would be too heavy to let an arrow fly. I'm basing this off Mythbuster knowledge when they tried to cleave a tree in half. They couldn't get 3 sticks of dynamite to fly so they stuck it into the tree before they lit the fuse. And the best guess I can find is that the average stick of Dynamite weighs approximately 0.5lbs. Meaning if the sheets weigh more than 1.5 pounds they probably wouldn't fly right or at all. Not to mention so much flowing goodness behind the arrowhead would definitely mess up the flight path.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Fantastic episode.

Now I want to go back and correct last chapter's prediction tally because Bricks, Tar and Lizzy did all survive the blast.

I'm also curious as to what people would say to there not having been a massive attack by the zombies yet. We've seen a group of 20-ish attempt to attack and abduct? with Tanya, and we know there's a huuuuge pile of zed heads at the hospital but how many were chasing after them? hmm....Wonder if I can call that inconclusive at the moment.

As for the arrows hoisting the sheets back up to the 10th floor: I don't think it's possible. Even if you deconstruct the rope and send it back up piece by piece, each individual sheet would be too heavy to let an arrow fly. I'm basing this off Mythbuster knowledge when they tried to cleave a tree in half. They couldn't get 3 sticks of dynamite to fly so they stuck it into the tree before they lit the fuse. And the best guess I can find is that the average stick of Dynamite weighs approximately 0.5lbs. Meaning if the sheets weigh more than 1.5 pounds they probably wouldn't fly right or at all. Not to mention so much flowing goodness behind the arrowhead would definitely mess up the flight path.

---

Maybe the "zombies" are congregating in a specific part of the hospital that has to do with some of the rituals that the new character in Chapter 23's artwork has in mind or Inky.

Maybe the "zombies" are a scouting party? Or perhaps they were meant to separate the group to make it easier to either capture them or kill them?

Also, that logic with the arrows seems to make sense...especially since it happened on Mythbusters =P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

As for the arrows hoisting the sheets back up to the 10th floor: I don't think it's possible. Even if you deconstruct the rope and send it back up piece by piece, each individual sheet would be too heavy to let an arrow fly. I'm basing this off Mythbuster knowledge when they tried to cleave a tree in half. They couldn't get 3 sticks of dynamite to fly so they stuck it into the tree before they lit the fuse. And the best guess I can find is that the average stick of Dynamite weighs approximately 0.5lbs. Meaning if the sheets weigh more than 1.5 pounds they probably wouldn't fly right or at all. Not to mention so much flowing goodness behind the arrowhead would definitely mess up the flight path.

---

This may be an apples and oranges situation. On Mythbusters all of the weight from the dynamite was concentrated on the shaft of the arrow. Tying off the bed sheet rope to an arrow and firing it at the window wouldn't the same concentration of weight. But I'm not sure just how much weight an arrow can tow and probably depends on the type of bow and the weight of the arrow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HardKor

This may be an apples and oranges situation. On Mythbusters all of the weight from the dynamite was concentrated on the shaft of the arrow. Tying off the bed sheet rope to an arrow and firing it at the window wouldn't the same concentration of weight. But I'm not sure just how much weight an arrow can tow and probably depends on the type of bow and the weight of the arrow.

---

Well I assume it's probably a compound bow since Riley picked it up from a sporting goods store and since that's what is used by most modern day hunters and archers. Not to say that Riley might have picked up a modern day recurve or composite bow, but I find that unlikely since it was a sporting goods store.

I think a long bow might be able to shoot the blanket up, but I doubt that Riley is packing something that is probably as tall, if not taller then herself, indoors no less.

Couple things...
I listened on about 5 different sources...and each time during the tape recorder part it really does sound like the zom says "move"...especially when you consider the running footsteps after that..but we have analyzed that to death already

Scratch came and got them..in the confusion, it sounded as if tardust said hurry up or THEY'll leave us..thus implies to me that more mallers than just scratch were present at that time. Which increases the chances of Lizzie and they mallers not being in the group being drug to the hospital,can't say that for sure..but strength in numbers...

If burt sent his bag down with riley, then he and angel essentially have only whatever ammo they had on their person, which does not bode well for them..and someone mentioned the idea of tying the blankets to the leg of the chopper....problem being, we are given no indication that they took the blankets with them back into the roof access hatch..only real hope on that angle is the chopper is equipped with a rope ladder...

In the last episode kalani and riley were arguing over each others usefulness,now they are paired together...sounds similar to the kalani angel adventure...hopefully the outcome will be as successful...i


Great episode, but damn...its like not even the last chapter and we have already had two cliffhangers...cant wait to see how KC leaves us hanging for the season ender;)

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but I just found the placement of characters so interesting. When we first found Burt, he was locked up in a bathroom slowly dying; with Angel unwilling to sacrifice the smallest bit for anyone. Now we come full circle with both characters locked up in a room, together now changed for what seems like the better. The brilliance in the writing...amazing.

Never have I ever been more affected by a story. After months of listening to this podcast, I never knew I would be this invested in the characters. Please don't kill Burt ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laura

I know a lot of people think Riley's a lesbian, but I just can't shake the feeling that she's got the hots for Angel. She's gonna pull something off, and I'm betting she'll save both him AND Burt.

Everyone's had very interesting perspectives so far on the situation. Now... the two-week wait. UGH!

---

What the heck is that on your avatar???

Great episode.

Surely the "Shoot the sheets back up" problem is relatively easily solved. You just cut thin strips of bedsheet (about 60 feet worth), tie them together, tie them to the end of an arrow, tie the other end to the main bedsheet rope. Then fire the arrow up, taking the much lighter thin strip up. B&A take the thin end and use that to pull up the heavier main bedsheet rope.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rafar

Great episode.

Surely the "Shoot the sheets back up" problem is relatively easily solved. You just cut thin strips of bedsheet (about 60 feet worth), tie them together, tie them to the end of an arrow, tie the other end to the main bedsheet rope. Then fire the arrow up, taking the much lighter thin strip up. B&A take the thin end and use that to pull up the heavier main bedsheet rope.

---

That is probably the only way it would be possible although it would take some time to make the 'string'.
To tie a whole bedsheet to an arrow and fire it that high, against gravity, I would say is impossible. Just going by the weight of the sheet and subsequent sheets tied to the original and inertia needed to lift it. But surely this is all a moot point? They didn't do it.


Cover art: Whats the odds on Riley and Kalani coming face to face with 'might not be but could be' pinstripes, and Riley shooting off an arrow at him only for him to catch it mid-air with cat like reflexes?


It's possible Burt and Ernie, sorry, Angel just accept the situation and Burt starts writing in his journal but everything is past tense, if it were your last dying entry, surely it would be present tense ie. "Kalani and Riley have made it to the rooftop door......"
But maybe not.

+1 for the Skittles rescue!

Check it out:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zombiehead

Check it out:

---

OOoo looks like you found the inspiration for "Cain Medical Center"/"Cain General Hospital"

Oh as for the Cain name, I would take a guess that it has something to do with Cain and Able (the bible story), perhaps something to do with altar sacrifices, or maybe Kc just thought it sounded cool.

zombies are back in a story of zombie survival. i am happy. i missed you zombie #3 and also you zombie #23. You both do good work.

although short, this was a fantastic episode. i really hope saul finds these asshats soon and exacts extreme vengeance upon them. hearing lizzy's voice and his reactions to her messages to him was hard to listen to. i get over that hurdle and danged if you didnt leave me fretting about angel and burt. great writing, great acting. it's all there !

More thoughts on the art for the chapter:

Just because the man in the suit has an arrow does exactly mean that Riley has a personal encounter with him. She shot a regular biter in this episode. Maybe he pulls the arrow from one of the dead biters as the bodies are being brought to wherever his "work shop" is. (See the big read blood stain on the floor and the trail of blood away from it.)

Due to how KC is writing the story, we (the listeners) are starting to attribute more intelligence to the biters. I think that is what we should be doing. It also leads me to the following thought.

The man in the suit remembers the arrows used at the arena (shot many of his "minions" and even the eye of a big one). Finding the arrow that Riley shot in this episode could cause him to be making a mental connection between the two instances.

Does that mean he'll have his forces head back to the tower in force? Maybe he'll try to shut it down once and for all.
Is it possible he'll try to get some of the more intelligent biters to use projectile attacks, no matter how crude?
Is he more interested in catching the four in the hospital alive because he wants that intelligence / dexterity in his forces?

Most likely none of this is true. Just some thoughts.

Did Saul say that the map had pin holes on the 110 heading north? That would be in the opposite direction of The Colony. I think he will pursue them anyway, nothing will stop him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zombiehead

Check it out:

---

Think bigger: Attachment 815

Keep in mind this isn't exactly Cain, but you get the idea...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Professor Twain

Did Saul say that the map had pin holes on the 110 heading north? That would be in the opposite direction of The Colony. I think he will pursue them anyway, nothing will stop him.

---

Yeah Saul mentioned pen marks on the map. But remember, the Mallers were detoured into Pinstrpe's trap on the way to the Arena. Someone may have just been marking the detour to keep from getting lost.