Chapter 40-3 Monsters

[Cabbage Patch]

...Boiling it down... the reason I don't like [CJ] is she doesn't care about the people around her, only what they can do for her. The reason I don't like her is that I doubt she will be sad that Glenn and Jay and Datu may have died or turned, she will not be sad at the loss of good men and friends, she will be upset that her best units of technical production are gone and nothing more.

Best description of the "problem with CJ" as I've ever read.

[LiamKerrington]

I agree, I don't think what happened with Datu, Glenn and Jay was CJs fault entirely. It was an unfortunate event and like any unfortunate event people are determined to point the finger at someone. They will fight and argue about who is to blame, but sometimes we just need to accept the fact that bad stuff can happen.

That said, I too am not a fan of CJ and I actually think I am able to pinpoint why. It dawned on me while listening to old episodes. The episode where CJ recounts to Saul and Vic what happened when Kalani came to the tower and how it was later overrun etc.

CJ tells Sean that Kalani is a pilot and she jokingly says she doesn't 'have one of those'. When they agree to let Kalani stay they jokingly say that 'the queen will permit you to stay'. These jokes have a lot of truth to them. Kalani has been through a lot that day and hasn't slept in a very long time, and they still send him immediately to the basement to start mixing cement and crack jokes about his weight and not being able to work as hard as the others because of it and say if he turns out to not be valuable enough they will dump him. All of these 'jokes' are more true than jest. CJ does not look at people as real people, she looks at herself as the mighty queen and all else are her subjects. They are merely units of production and only good for what they can offer her.

It seems she sort of held Sean up as her king (and the only one she seemed to care about) and when he was lost she tried to offer Saul the job and was offended that he turned her down. She isn't used to being told no.

Boiling it down... the reason I don't like her is she doesn't care about the people around her, only what they can do for her. The reason I don't like her is that I doubt she will be sad that Glenn and Jay and Datu may have died or turned, she will not be sad at the loss of good men and friends, she will be upset that her best units of technical production are gone and nothing more.

I hear you, and I agree with you 100% about CJ's attitude and behaviour in front of others.
edit:
I failed to recognize an important detail in Unit9014's posting ... So I need to fix shit ...
old But I don't see why this makes her responsible for the loss of Glenn and Jay and maybe R2Da2. /old
new And I, too, don't see why this would make her responsible for the loss of Glenn and Jay and maybe R2Da2./new
Behaving like shit in general and deciding something specific - these are two entirely different things. She did not send out R2Da2, Glenn and Jay, because she wanted to treat them like objects or functional units as she usually does treat people; she sent them out because they actually insisted to be sent out, and following their arguments she calculated the risks for "her assets" and decided in favor of taking the risk, 'cause the benefit might have been awesome. Ok, the outcome proves her wrong; but does this make her decision a bad one, if so - why? And does this make her fully responsible?

I already shared my opinion with arguments above; I simply sum it up: not in my opinion, no matter how objectifying she treats other human beings.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Unit]

I agree with you. At the beginning of my long rant I said I DON'T think CJ is fully responsible for what happened at the water pump, sometimes bad things just happen and there isn't someone we should blame.

I was just posting why I don't like CJ, completely independent from what happened in this recent episode.

[Storm]

Aside from the cause of the outbreak, I believe this is the show's longest running mystery...

Wrong... We still don't know what the test Michael was going to take was about. I'm sure that holds the key to the outbreak... Or not...

[LiamKerrington]

I agree with you. At the beginning of my long rant I said I DON'T think CJ is fully responsible for what happened at the water pump, sometimes bad things just happen and there isn't someone we should blame.

I was just posting why I don't like CJ, completely independent from what happened in this recent episode.

Oh, damn me ... I am SOOO SORRRRRY! I didn't pay close attention when I read your article for the first time. This very important detail slipped my mind. I feel bad ...

[scbubba]

I hear you, and I agree with you 100% about CJ's attitude and behaviour in front of others.
edit:
I failed to recognize an important detail in Unit9014's posting ... So I need to fix shit ...
old But I don't see why this makes her responsible for the loss of Glenn and Jay and maybe R2Da2. /old
new And I, too, don't see why this would make her responsible for the loss of Glenn and Jay and maybe R2Da2./new
Behaving like shit in general and deciding something specific - these are two entirely different things. She did not send out R2Da2, Glenn and Jay, because she wanted to treat them like objects or functional units as she usually does treat people; she sent them out because they actually insisted to be sent out, and following their arguments she calculated the risks for "her assets" and decided in favor of taking the risk, 'cause the benefit might have been awesome. Ok, the outcome proves her wrong; but does this make her decision a bad one, if so - why? And does this make her fully responsible?

I already shared my opinion with arguments above; I simply sum it up: not in my opinion, no matter how objectifying she treats other human beings.

Best wishes!
Liam

Funny how she lets Datu and crew go out in a dangerous situation that she feels will benefit her goals because they insist nut she is all butt hurt and squawking when Michael "insists" on doing something that she isn't focused on. I still see it as furthering her own goals and their "insistence" is going to be a way for he to wriggle out of blame. I'm trying to remember where it is in the story but I think there's at least one place in Season 3 where CJ makes a big point of "It wasn't my fault!", maybe even repeating it a couple of times. I might be crossing wires on that one though.

Anyway, maybe she has been lulled into a false sense of security because there hasn't been much activity near the Colony lately. Maybe she's just stretched so thin on worrying about all the issues she talked to Pegs about last episode. Maybe a combination of things led her to making a bad decision. But I see it as another in a succession of bad judgement calls over the arc of her character.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Im my opinion, CJ accepted to be the leader of the colony back in chapter 37, so she is of course entitled to deny Glenn and Datu to go out on their mission. That is simply one the most fundamental mandates she received by the colonists. With special regards to the Glenn and Datu situation, she seemed to have never considered to defend them from their own technological eagerness to fix things sooner than latter for the sake of the colony. I personally know how techies operate, they are often too optimistic while neglecting the risks especially if there is only one more little step to go. CJ has known Datu for more than four months and should have considered that.

[scbubba]

Im my opinion, CJ accepted to be the leader of the colony back in chapter 37, so she is of course entitled to deny Glenn and Datu to go out on their mission. That is simply one the most fundamental mandates she received by the colonists. With special regards to the Glenn and Datu situation, she seemed to have never considered to defend them from their own technological eagerness to fix things sooner than latter for the sake of the colony. I personally know how techies operate, they are often too optimistic while neglecting the risks especially if there is only one more little step to go. CJ has known Datu for more than four months and should have considered that.

Yes! Most definitely this ^^^^^^

It's one of the reasons managing techies can be so challenging. On one hand, they'll have something that "can't possibly fail" so they don't take proper precautions or prep correctly. On the other hand, something "would never work" and gets put off or ignored until someone else actually does it (causing big ego wounds).

More points against CJs real world leadership skills. And more for her background as a "but here it is on paper!" type...

[LiamKerrington]

CJ has known Datu for more than four months and should have considered that.

As far as I can tell: CJ did not know R2Da2 until she woke up from the surgery on her leg; before that it might have happened that Saul might have mentioned R2Da2; but that wouldn't be enough to say that CJ "knows" R2Da2 well enough for longer than just the last four months. But I agree in that way that during the last 4 months she had plenty of opportunity to understand R2Da2 well enough.
Infact: she knows Glenn much longer than R2Da2, because it was Glenn she put into one of the many safe-houses und who fueled the idea of repairing the broken sat-phone ... Maybe you confused the names? *g*

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

As far as I can tell: CJ did not know R2Da2 until she woke up from the surgery on her leg; before that it might have happened that Saul might have mentioned R2Da2; but that wouldn't be enough to say that CJ "knows" R2Da2 well enough for longer than just the last four months. But I agree in that way that during the last 4 months she had plenty of opportunity to understand R2Da2 well enough.
Infact: she knows Glenn much longer than R2Da2, because it was Glenn she put into one of the many safe-houses und who fueled the idea of repairing the broken sat-phone ... Maybe you confused the names? *g*

Probably.