Chapter 31 Family Ties Part 2

[Leedo2502]

Then again, he is a poor shot but that's a common trait in the Army.

I take exception to that comment...

[Ray]

I didn't say everyone in the Army is a poor shot, just that it's common.

[Leedo2502]

I didn't say everyone in the Army is a poor shot, just that it's common.

Maybe in the non-combat arms MOS's (well non-Infantry really). But not anymore than the Marines that are non-infanty. And I'd hardly call it common... As a matter of fact the top marine marksman this year at the National Matches placed 5th place... behind 2 Army dudes an Army reservist and a civilian (prior Army)

And if memory serves he's a poor shot with a M-249 (and is a fictional character).

[Osiris]

Maybe in the non-combat arms MOS's (well non-Infantry really). But not anymore than the Marines that are non-infanty. And I'd hardly call it common... As a matter of fact the top marine marksman this year at the National Matches placed 5th place... behind 2 Army dudes an Army reservist and a civilian (prior Army)

And if memory serves he's a poor shot with a M-249 (and is a fictional character).

Fuck no. He's real. Don't you know that?

[Condor]

Holy Shit!! I think I stopped breathing While Scratch went at Shirley & Burt. I was on the edge of my seat and jumped with each whack of the hammer while white-knuckling the arms of my recliner. Great episode

Somebody get Burt some Viagra so he can seriously skull-fuck that bitch.

If we had a story where everyone who was good having nothing bad happen or nearly happen to them, WA would be a terribly dull thing to listen to...

:cough: Walking Dead. :cough:

Maybe he is now... But have you ever tried to write anything with your left? (Assuming you're right handed like the rest of the normal people)

DISCLAIMER: No offense was made to the south paws (Is that how it's really spelled? Weird)

BUT. he was right handed. Scratch saw his affinity for the gun and how he used it in Ch 6.

Actually I have tried writing left handed. I can't do it very well, but I could do it if I had to.

every time i go shooting, i always make sure to shoot left handed. it's not as easy, and i'm not as accurate, but i can hit the target. any shooter worth his salt can shoot lefty, and a lot of marksman actually use their middle finger as their trigger finger, because a trick of point shointing is pointing at the target with your index finger. granted, it doesn't sound like burt was a point shooter, and he won't be shooting with that hand for a while, nor will he be at the same level he was before, but burt is far from out of the game imo.

So true. Admittedly shooting left handed is a skill I need to improve on. Whenever I can get some range time, it's at the top of my list, well right under shooting a few guns I've never fired.

This finger was such an amazing symbol for Burt on so many levels. Everything Burt is, was, and will-be was dependent on three small segments of bone and knuckle. Without his gun, he's a defenseless, old man with nothing more than a minor understanding of generators and radios... Plus, Burt judges his self-worth on his ability to shoot -- just look back to when he got the shakes for a week. Taking away his trigger finger isn't just making it harder for him to survive, it's essentially taking away his "manhood" (even more, it's the one piece of his body that fits into the symbol of his wife, Shirley). This episode was just brilliant writing, and Lizzy would have a field day analyzing this stuff.

Well stated.

It didn't seem like the other Tower types were left wanting in the guns dept. I think the SWAT van was just back-up. And unless it was parked behind the Dunbar Tower then it really doesn't come into play for when they get over run

She did say the guns in the van were a second secret stash. We also know she had a secret stash in the basement of the tower. When the tower was over-run, it wasn't an issue of lack of weapons, just not enough time to get them.

[Cabbage Patch]

She did say the guns in the van were a second secret stash. We also know she had a secret stash in the basement of the tower. When the tower was over-run, it wasn't an issue of lack of weapons, just not enough time to get them.

Don't forget Kalani's conversation with Sean as the Other Tower was being over run (Chapter 27, Part 3):

Kalani: "Where are the guns?"
Sean: "They're locked up".
Kalani: "Where?"
Sean: "On the other side of where we are".

The issue wasn't a lack of guns, or inadequate time to get them. It's that the residents weren't trusted to keep their weapons with them, so they were all sitting, useless, in an arms room.

[Free_Falling86]

What would you call getting a false confession from someone, cutting them deep in the process to get the zombies to smell the blood, and then leaving them to die? How would you explain her baiting the Tower guys into meeting them at the golf course, and then having an innocent 14 year old girl executed? Is that the work of a sane person? Murdering innocent people in cold blood to get vengence? I understand fully why she wants to kill Pegs, but neither of those two people had anything to do with Pegs shooting Latch. Absolutely nothing. Hannah didn't even know Pegs, but she was executed all the same. She's killing, maiming, and torturing people to get what she wants. Where exactly have any of the Tower residents done the same? They've risked their lives and their safety multiple times to save people they didn't know. The very beginning of the series started with Michael saying that they owed it to people out there to save them, and give them a better chance at living. I don't see how the difference could be any more clear.

I call that extremely violent, but neither insane or psychopathic. However, not every violent criminal has a mental/psychological disorder. This isn't intended to be rude or condescending, but please remember that she is part of the Family, more or less spelled out that she is in the American Cosa Nostra (or Mafia if you will). They have their own way of living and their own rules, everyone else be darned. Although their main purpose is to earn money, the Mafia has quite the reputation for its violence and murder. Heck, what she did was no worse than putting a favored horse's head in the enemy's bed or any of the things seen on the Soprano. You might say that those are sensationalized, but it is all based on true events and not a stranger to real life occurrences. Each Family has its own set of rules, so I can't say what Scratch's Family follows. Was Hannah's death tragic? Yes. However, Hannah was only a means to an end for the Mallers. La Casa Nostra translates to "this thing of ours". She wasn't part of the Family. Also, do we know for certain that Scratch thought Kalani was dead after the first Tower attack failure? I'll have to go back and re-listen. Because if she had even the smallest inkling that Kalani had switched teams, then the death of Hannah could have been for vengeance. Kalani could have spilled his guts about what he knew about the Mallers (which is breaking the Code of Silence, a punishment worthy of vengeance and death in the eyes of the Family) Anyways, she was dead either way the instance she got in Scratch's and Latch's car with Kalani. Interesting how all 3 of the survivors (Kalani, Hannah, and Pippin) are now dead. It's because the Mallers (and essentially The Family) could care less about them. They are all means to an end. And the only reason (that we know so far) that Lizzie is being protected the way she is and not being tortured or even left for dead is because of Scratch's past. She could have easily have let Tardust or any other Maller have at it, but she didn't. Scratch seems to not take notice of the social structure though. We don't have much information to go off of with the Mallers, but from what we know, it seems Durai is the Boss (or Don), and Scratch (since breaking the Mallers out) has taken place as the Under Boss (2nd in Command) and also the Capo (the Lieutenant over the "soldiers"/those who do the dirty work). But Scratch isn't afraid of getting her hands dirty.

Also, I seem to remember quite a few examples of heroes torturing and/or killing needlessly, and instead of being labelled evil and insane, they instead get labelled a BAMF instead. The most popular of examples is Jack Bauer from 24. He has as much blood on his hands as all the villains he went against. However, since he saved the day, he is lauded as a hero and totally awesome. Liam Neesan in the movie Taken. I remember a rather brutal torture scene and then leaving the guy for dead. The folks over in Law & Order:SVU had several moments. Heck, even Buffy from Buffy the Vampire Slayer has tortured needlessly. But since they're the villains, the demons, we the viewer aren't supposed to care. We're supposed to cheer instead. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me....

But it seems that you have your mind made up, and you don't want to even step an iota from your decision/belief. And I understand and respect that. However, I just wanted to answer your question that you posed to me. I hope you took no offense from what I said. This is just how I see it and what I've come up with after listening and researching. Thanks Kc! I've put in some great research on some very interesting subjects since listening to the last few Chapters. A sign of a great story!

[daredevil]

I call that extremely violent, but neither insane or psychopathic. However, not every violent criminal has a mental/psychological disorder. This isn't intended to be rude or condescending, but please remember that she is part of the Family, more or less spelled out that she is in the American Cosa Nostra (or Mafia if you will). They have their own way of living and their own rules, everyone else be darned. Although their main purpose is to earn money, the Mafia has quite the reputation for its violence and murder. Heck, what she did was no worse than putting a favored horse's head in the enemy's bed or any of the things seen on the Soprano. You might say that those are sensationalized, but it is all based on true events and not a stranger to real life occurrences. Each Family has its own set of rules, so I can't say what Scratch's Family follows. Was Hannah's death tragic? Yes. However, Hannah was only a means to an end for the Mallers. La Casa Nostra translates to "this thing of ours". She wasn't part of the Family. Also, do we know for certain that Scratch thought Kalani was dead after the first Tower attack failure? I'll have to go back and re-listen. Because if she had even the smallest inkling that Kalani had switched teams, then the death of Hannah could have been for vengeance. Kalani could have spilled his guts about what he knew about the Mallers (which is breaking the Code of Silence, a punishment worthy of vengeance and death in the eyes of the Family) Anyways, she was dead either way the instance she got in Scratch's and Latch's car with Kalani. Interesting how all 3 of the survivors (Kalani, Hannah, and Pippin) are now dead. It's because the Mallers (and essentially The Family) could care less about them. They are all means to an end. And the only reason (that we know so far) that Lizzie is being protected the way she is and not being tortured or even left for dead is because of Scratch's past. She could have easily have let Tardust or any other Maller have at it, but she didn't. Scratch seems to not take notice of the social structure though. We don't have much information to go off of with the Mallers, but from what we know, it seems Durai is the Boss (or Don), and Scratch (since breaking the Mallers out) has taken place as the Under Boss (2nd in Command) and also the Capo (the Lieutenant over the "soldiers"/those who do the dirty work). But Scratch isn't afraid of getting her hands dirty.

Also, I seem to remember quite a few examples of heroes torturing and/or killing needlessly, and instead of being labelled evil and insane, they instead get labelled a BAMF instead. The most popular of examples is Jack Bauer from 24. He has as much blood on his hands as all the villains he went against. However, since he saved the day, he is lauded as a hero and totally awesome. Liam Neesan in the movie Taken. I remember a rather brutal torture scene and then leaving the guy for dead. The folks over in Law & Order:SVU had several moments. Heck, even Buffy from Buffy the Vampire Slayer has tortured needlessly. But since they're the villains, the demons, we the viewer aren't supposed to care. We're supposed to cheer instead. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me....

But it seems that you have your mind made up, and you don't want to even step an iota from your decision/belief. And I understand and respect that. However, I just wanted to answer your question that you posed to me. I hope you took no offense from what I said. This is just how I see it and what I've come up with after listening and researching. Thanks Kc! I've put in some great research on some very interesting subjects since listening to the last few Chapters. A sign of a great story!

Are you Insane or Psychopathic?

[Free_Falling86]

Are you Insane or Psychopathic?

Neither. I'm a Graphic Designer and a part-time actress. Though I guess the insane part could be debatable. My parents and close friends seem to like to call me crazy often enough

[daredevil]

Neither. I'm a Graphic Designer and a part-time actress. Though I guess the insane part could be debatable. My parents and close friends seem to like to call me crazy often enough

Exactly, you're not insane or psychopathic. Scratch though.....

Graphic Design and Actress... nice jobs.