Chapter 31 Family Ties Part 2

[Ray]

How cliche and predictable to assume Burt will tear her limb from limb. I would hope he would do something more interesting like peel her skin like an orange or cook her over a slow fire. Or maybe just maybe Riley will be the one to cut her apart. piece by piece. I've always thought that a chef would have excellent knife skills.

How is that cliche, and how am I assuming? He said he was going to skullfuck her corpse, with good reason. She destroyed his most prized possession in a weak and desperate attempt to get him to spill the beans. She couldn't be more of a weak character now, and he flat out said he was going to kill her. Tearing her limb from limb was meant as an expression based of him flat out telling her that he was going to kill her in the most brutal and denigrating way possible. Not assumption, and not cliche.

Guess you could say the same thing about Saul... The Knight in Shining Armor going to rescue the Damsel in distress. Blah.. how cliche is that?

Ah yes, but there is another elemtent to that story. She's pregnant. Maybe not his, but maybe it is. He actions are no more cliche than Bricks'. Saul wants to protect her because they have a relationship for one, and now he knows she pregnant so there's even more reason to get her away from those psychotic murderers. I wouldn't call that cliche, I'd call that doing the right thing for people that have risked their lives to protect yours in the past. She basically browbeat Burt to go back when he was mobbed in the Prius, even though she pretty much wanted nothing to do with him that entire trip. So makes perfect sense that he's going back to get her when no one else will. Repay the favor she did for him in a way.

Can you explain "Scratch has become a cliche character"? My understand is when an actor/actress can can bring you to the point where are affect by very own emotions they are far away from being cliche.

She's a murderous psychopath, now she's got a sob story to try and flesh out the one dimension she has and it fails completely. She is trying to project her own sense of warped and illogical "rules" that the families she's in the middle of to a person that killed her brother in self defense. She has one dimension, anger. Misplaced anger. Having her backstory that she was raped and was repaid for cutting her Uncles dick off and then using that set of psychopath rules to justify killing all of Pegs friends to get her back for defending herself is cliche. The evil villian trying to get vengence for a percieved crime against her. The only thing she has is anger, and the rape backstory was a waste of air time. I can't believe anyone would sympathize with her wanting vengence for her brother, and using that as justification for her actions. Rape isn't something to make light of, and it's awful she went through that. Doesn't give her character any more depth or reason to act the way she does. Her wanting to kill Pegs because she killed Latch in self defense has nothing to do with her getting raped, it's just a desperate stab at trying to legitimize her psychotic behavior. How anyone could like a murderous person like her is beyond me. I respect that people have reasons to want to like her, but she's shown nothing more than blind and illogical rage. I felt the same about Kalani. He was just as one dimensionally stupid as Scratch is one dimensionally angry. Scratch has nothing to offer other than misplaced anger, and her character will never really have any depth if they don't give her any reason to exist other than to be fill the external villain role.

Her only strength is being part of these mysterious families. She's physically weak, she's mentally insane, she's a unremorseful murderer, and she's blind with rage. If it weren't for the ring she wears, she'd be long dead. She can't stand up to Bricks, she has to have Bricks hold down Burt so she could cut off his finger without Burt having the chance to rip her arms off, and she has to resort to starving a man to death to get information. Every other group has people far more resourceful and more capable people, leave Scratch on her own and she's dead. Only thing that keeps people in line is her rage and the protection the ring brings her. Look at Saul and Vic. Both alone and yet they managed to survive without help. Saul did so completely on his own. Without anyone else, Scratch has nothing to keep her alive. She's the cliche "angry for the wrong reasons" character and has to depend on people and outside influences to maintain her power.

Ok Ray, not sure if you're just trying to be contentious to get some response, or if you even believe what you just wrote, but I'm just not seeing how the Scratch torture scene with Burt suddenly makes her a cliche character.

So it's cliche for the story to have a villain? Or are torture scenes now so overdone that they bore you?

It's not being contrarian to state an opinion. Because I don't agree with you doesn't make me wrong, or make you right. I can have a differing opinion without being insulted. I don't appreciate the tone you're taking with me for having a differing viewpoint on the character development of Scratch. I had enough of that garbage treatment from Osiris, his condescending attitude, and I don't need it from you either. I think Scratch has had some great moments, but she's starting to slip into the role of "misguided anger" issues area. There's so much that could change here, but she falling into a very very predictable pattern and I don't like it.

So you don't think that she's not going to use Lizzies little boy against her when the opportunity presents itself? You don't see that coming? Her sob story rape was pointless, we all know damn well that she will use both Lizzie and that baby to get what she wants, her being raped and having an abortion won't stop her from using whatever she has at hand to get what she wants. Proven by the fact that she starved Burt, destroyed his gun in a little tempter tantrum, and then cut off his finger, and also by killing Hanna to distract the tower guys when she attacked it the second time. She will do anything, no matter how gruesome or horrible, to get what she wants and she's projecting her warped family values on the world like they mean anything to anyone but her. She's falling into a completely predictable pattern, and it's getting worse. Not a single person that has been in coversation about Burt and/or Angel sees/saw the point in continuing to torture them. Hell, Bricks even defended Burt there at the end, taking the knife away from her by force. Her response? "Yeah, well. This isn't over." *stomping off in a huff*

She's run out of options, she's mentally weak and certifiably insane, and she has to depend on everyone around her to respect the ring she wears and not her skills or cunning. She has one dimension, anger. Anger that has gotten her nothing, and so she's using more of it in the desperate attempt to fix what she's fucked up. Misplaced anger is cliche, and Scratch is nothing but misplaced anger. She's projecting her rape and the following consequences on Pegs and is doing what all psychotic killers do and trying to make up for it by killing one person thinking it'll bring her peace or some kind of conflict resolution. Since the beginning of the series she's been nothing but piss and vinegar, and nothing has changed.

Scratch is a female italian mobster girl who cut of the balls of some guy and is fanatically trying to find and kill her brother's murderer... Maybe she's a patchwork of cliches (i don't agree, but i can see it), but not a cliche herself...
CJ is egocentric, but so are a lot of people, and a lot of survivors. In short term, altruists die first. I don't believe she can be called weak, neither in reference to real life, nor in the story. She's well established to be the woman behind the better, more successful tower (I mean the tower as a tower,not as people living in it).
And i think we can all say that everyone in the story is alive ONLY because this or that happened, so its not something we can lay specifically on CJ's door.

Pegs only "murdered" Latch in her eyes, I think 99% of people that aren't murderous psychopaths would be able to tell the difference between murder and self defense. Pegs most definitely did not murder Latch, something that a person with the mental instablility and misplaced rage like Scratch wouldn't be able to tell the truth from perception.

How can CJ not be weak? She had Sean as her enforcer and general task completer, and now Saul and Vic fill that role. She doesn't go out on her own now that she has someone to do it for her. She threatened them with expulsion if they didn't get her info on what was going on in Inglewood, both almost died in the process, and now that they ask for the same help. Notice I said ask, she tells them they are nothing more than warm bodies that take up space in her building. She is only alive because of Ink. For some reason he called his dogs off her when the tower was being gutted, she had her back to the wall and there were way more zombies in there than she had bullets for. She may be a good planner, but plans don't mean squat when the person making them is too weak, paranoid, or vengeful to carry them out. Saul and Vic make shit happen there, and even without CJ and her ego, they'd still survive. The reason CJ has for so long is that she had people around her willing to take her abrasive and abusive personality in stride. Most likely for themselves, each other, and not her. If Saul and Vic up and said "screw you we're going to the colony anyway" she's be her bullheaded self and betray their trust again. I'd think twice about being around someone that's so quick to cast people out because they don't want to do what I want to do. Her little tantrum under the guise of thinking carefully about a plan shows her for what she is, a weak coward. Saul and Vic have more than earned her respect, and the first thing she did when asked for help was to lash out at them and insult them. I agree that they should think through the steps more carefully and weigh the risks, that's just being smart, but the way she immediately threw them under the bus after acquiescing to her threats for the last 6 months or so, she's proven that she's not mentally stong, as well as not physically strong. I like CJ because she's got a good thing going, but I really don't like that she's so quick to act like her shit doesn't stink. Her ass was grass in the tower attack and the sole reason she survived was some seriously confusing mercy shown by Ink.

[wh33t]

Anyone else get the idea that CJ really has her stuff together? She had a SWAT van hidden somewhere full of weapons. Smart woman. Seems like her #1 priority was to get guns, a LOT of guns, and ammo stocked up. I'm glad CJ is on Saul and Victors side.

Yea, it's looking like my CJ is SWAT theory got a bump in the right direction. I have a whole thread dedicated to it. The fact that CJ just so happens to have a SWAT van (remember folks, one of CJ's minions was SWAT!) and a pile of SWAT like munitions. Sure it could just be the fact that one of her minions was SWAT and that's how she came to possess the SWAT van, but then you are still left with the question of just exactly where did CJ get her skills? She's well trained in close quarters combat, firearms, strategic planning and quartermastering (for lack of a better word).

It was on par with the Lizzie almost gets raped scene (insert a glare at KC and shake my finger at him) I was mad at you for a week over that then I forgave you I don't remember why though.

I still don't get how you guys have concluded that Lizzie wasn't raped. Did I miss a thread on that discussion? Or is that just hopeful thinking by the community?

CJ, this is why I love you. That's totally how I feel about the world today. Also I have a small reference to this in my signature as well. @ 4:32 "Normal, what's normal? Working most of your life doing trivial shit just to get by? Who's to say what I have here isn't better?"

Scott Marvin! Jenna McCombie! KC! You're all amazing. I cherish this Radio Drama.

[Cabbage Patch]

Maybe he is now... But have you ever tried to write anything with your left? (Assuming you're right handed like the rest of the normal people)

DISCLAIMER: No offense was made to the south paws (Is that how it's really spelled? Weird)

BUT. he was right handed. Scratch saw his affinity for the gun and how he used it in Ch 6.

Burt was a competitive pistol shooter and it sounded like he was pretty good at it. NRA pistol tournament rules require that competitors be able to fire their weapons with their "weak hand", usually requiring that they use their weak hand for between 10% and 25% of their shots in any competition. So we know that Burt "can" shoot left-handed, the question is how well he can do it.

[PuddleWhite]

It takes too much space, go read it on site

As to what you said about my comment...
I guess everybody's weak in some way or another, Victor's loyalty to Saul, Saul's pursuit of Lizzie, Lizzie's willingness to jeopardize her own safety for the good of the tower... But what i will contest is that CJ's weaknesses make her a bad survivor and a bad human being. Scratch is a bad human being, but CJ is just acting as her logic and her limited emotional capabilities allow her to act... And as far as survivor goes, I think she does fine. Was she at the mercy of someone at some point? Yeah, but so did everyone else in the series so far. In short, she gets by as good as any, and better than most. As far as the whole cold bitch thing, i think ''not in touch with her emotions'' is a better description of her crime, and its a small crime indeed, imo.

[yarri]

I still don't get how you guys have concluded that Lizzie wasn't raped. Did I miss a thread on that discussion? Or is that just hopeful thinking by the community?

Scratch stopped it

[PuddleWhite]

Burt was a competitive pistol shooter and it sounded like he was pretty good at it. NRA pistol tournament rules require that competitors be able to fire their weapons with their "weak hand", usually requiring that they use their weak hand for between 10% and 25% of their shots in any competition. So we know that Burt "can" shoot left-handed, the question is how well he can do it.

Owwww daaaamn... Do we have an inconsistency on our hands?!?! Find out next time, on We're Alive!

[PuddleWhite]

Yea, it's looking like my CJ is SWAT theory got a bump in the right direction. I have a whole thread dedicated to it. The fact that CJ just so happens to have a SWAT van (remember folks, one of CJ's minions was SWAT!) and a pile of SWAT like munitions.

I don't think it matters much if CJ was SWAT or not, whats important is she's an extremely capable organizer who may or may not like Saul and has trouble getting trough to her emotions.
As against that theory, I'd ask what would you consider a "SWAT like munitions pile''? As far as i know, she just has munitions in the general sense, not in any caliber specific to SWAT...

[Ray]

As far as the whole cold bitch thing, i think ''not in touch with her emotions'' is a better description of her crime, and its a small crime indeed, imo.

She's threatened them both with expulsion for not doing what she wants them to, even if they die in the process. Now that they ask for her help, she basically says they are useless to her. She's not a cold bitch, she's a contemptuous coward. Survival or not, someone did that to me, they'd be on their own immediately. Her mental aptitude and general spiteful nature shows that she is mentally weak. Threatening people and belittling their efforts is the first sign of being mentally weak. All of her supplies were gathered by someone else, she's a planner and not a doer. If it weren't for Sean, and now Saul and Vic she'd be nowhere. Sean carried the organized mentality with him to the Colony, he was the only thing keeping the powerkeg from exploding there. CJ had absolutely nothing to do with that. What happened after he died? The place went to shit. She may be able to plan things, but her ass is grass when it comes to actually doing anything. We have yet to see her do anything other than beat up a pretty weak Saul while he was trying to get some peaches. Everything else that been accomplished? Done by Saul and Vic. The second Saul and Vic wanted to leave, and asked for her help to get there, she became spiteful and hateful towards them. The only reason she is alive now it because Ink told the other zombies to leave her alone, and not because she's some badass. Both Saul and Vic have survived on their own, or with very little outside help. Neither one need her and I think she knows that.

[yarri]

She's threatened them both with expulsion for not doing what she wants them to, even if they die in the process. Now that they ask for her help, she basically says they are useless to her. She's not a cold bitch, she's a contemptuous coward. Survival or not, someone did that to me, they'd be on their own immediately. Her mental aptitude and general spiteful nature shows that she is mentally weak. Threatening people and belittling their efforts is the first sign of being mentally weak. All of her supplies were gathered by someone else, she's a planner and not a doer. If it weren't for Sean, and now Saul and Vic she'd be nowhere. Sean carried the organized mentality with him to the Colony, he was the only thing keeping the powerkeg from exploding there. CJ had absolutely nothing to do with that. What happened after he died? The place went to shit. She may be able to plan things, but her ass is grass when it comes to actually doing anything. We have yet to see her do anything other than beat up a pretty weak Saul while he was trying to get some peaches. Everything else that been accomplished? Done by Saul and Vic. The second Saul and Vic wanted to leave, and asked for her help to get there, she became spiteful and hateful towards them. The only reason she is alive now it because Ink told the other zombies to leave her alone, and not because she's some badass. Both Saul and Vic have survived on their own, or with very little outside help. Neither one need her and I think she knows that.

I'm curious and this question is meant seriously not as a nag or to be rude. What part of the show do you like?

[Adventureless_Hero]

So for once in a long time I said fuck it and didn't read anything that was posted prior to my posting. Firefox is being a bastard these days when it comes to this site. Anygay...

I'm really hoping that Saul and Victor will arrive at the colony and provide me with some damn evidence as to the timeline of all this shite. LOL, I can't figure out how the pieces fit together. From Saul and Victor's perspective, Burt could already be dead, OR he could be running the place, sitting on a throne with his four fingered hand resting on a polished skull that was once Scratches face.

What I found interesting was that we learned CJ isn't just a cold hearted bitch, she's a vengeful cold hearted bitch. Rescuing Lizzy, and getting replacement parts for the SAT phone weren't reason enough for her to want to infiltrate the colony. It wasn't until she was told (lied to) about the Mallers having a hand in killing Sean.

I think we are on a course to see Burt die. I hope I'm wrong, but he's falling to pieces and been broken. Perhaps it will culminate in a fight to the death with Scratch and Burt, but I don't see him making it out alive. Infinite sadness.

Also, I hope Bricks watches his back. Scratch may have it out for him now. Hopefully Bricks realization that he is playing for the wrong team will coincide with Saul, Victor, and CJ's arrival.