Chapter 25- Inadequate Strength part 3

[fletch444]

Ft. Irwin is a training post. I can definitely see how it could easily be over run (or any army post within the USA for that matter).
1. The infection spreads very quickly.
2. The average soldier that is stationed there is either OPFOR (an opposing force used as enemy soldiers during training. They don't walk around with live rounds... all blanks and lasers) or they are support personnel who work in finance, logistics, the mess hall, etc..etc... They don't carry around ammo and probably don't know where or how to get to it)
3. MP's are the only ones (while a live fire mission isn't taking place) who typically carry or have access to live ammo and it's a limited amount of ammo at that.
4. The only time a large amount of soldiers have live ammo is during the live fire portion of each training cycle and this only lasts for 2 days max.
5. Ammo is stored far away from where soldiers are located in bunkers typically underground / inside man made mounds of dirt. These places are very thinly guarded by soldiers who may or may not be armed and if they are armed then they typically have a 9mm or an M4 and if a zombie were to attack, they wouldn't have any time to open the ammo bunkers to retrieve it. (Enter the security code, unlock the lock box for the keys to the bunkers, walk to the bunkers, enter another security code, unlock the outer doors to the bunkers, unlock the cage doors, find the right ammo for a weapon they may or may not be carrying and that's IF they opened the right bunker.)

Irwin would definitely be a good place to get supplies. There is probably enough MRE's there to last 100 people as much as they could eat for 10 years or until they started spoiling. There is a ton of ammo there as well. Everything from 120mm main gun tank rounds to 9mm pistol rounds. One would have to make sure that the ammo they are taking is not a box of blanks because there are many more times the amount of blanks than there are of live ammo and they are all stored in the same general area.

There is a ton of armored vehicles there... Probably at least 4 armored brigades worth (80 to 120 armored vehicles per brigade) if not more. Tanks, Hummers, APC's, Tracks, Fuel and water trucks all start with a push of a button. If the vehicle is locked, well... we all know how they unlocked their hummer in chapter 1.

Not a bad place to resupply.... I can wait to see how it all plays out.

[IamPaul]

Um... did you just use my name in vain??? hahah
Anyway, Mike was deadly serious about the left over package. When you go to the field, one of the first things they teach you is how to dispose of your waste. It prevents the arrival of vectors and pests. That all leads to safety and hygiene.
You ever go camping and was told to elevate your gear... especially your food? Hang it high so animals can't get to it? Same thing applies here. The infected could possibly smell the leftover contents and stumble into the camp. They start popping off rounds and now you have more infected headed your way.

Reading that sentence with you in mind made me chuckle aloud. I just think it is stretching it to think that Michael is going mental, as the brits say (or Britts, I dunno if she has said that but I would not put it past her.) He is extremely tired, plus maybe Hope had jambalya too. That was never resolved. Hopefully Kc can answer that for us by the end of the series. lol j/k. But seriously, what did she eat?

[Adventureless_Hero]

Reading that sentence with you in mind made me chuckle aloud. I just think it is stretching it to think that Michael is going mental, as the brits say (or Britts, I dunno if she has said that but I would not put it past her.) He is extremely tired, plus maybe Hope had jambalya too. That was never resolved. Hopefully Kc can answer that for us by the end of the series. lol j/k. But seriously, what did she eat?

She was eating Lady's kibble, because Michael is an asshole to little blind girls.
lol, seriously though, just because she couldn't tell what she was eating, I'm sure she would have liked to know! Poor Hope.

[dontkillburt]

She was eating Lady's kibble, because Michael is an asshole to little blind girls.
lol, seriously though, just because she couldn't tell what she was eating, I'm sure she would have liked to know! Poor Hope.

Michael feeding Hope Lady's kibble...that's classic!

Personally, me thinks there is more to Hope than we have been led to believe. I keep wondering back to what she said just before riding the zip line between the Tower and the other building in chapter 24, part 3..."That's a long way." How did she know this?

And wasn't she the last to "see" Pippin alive? I mean, if there was someone who wanted revenge against the maller clan, it was Hope.

Hmmmm.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ft. Irwin is a training post. I can definitely see how it could easily be over run (or any army post within the USA for that matter).
1. The infection spreads very quickly.
2. The average soldier that is stationed there is either OPFOR (an opposing force used as enemy soldiers during training. They don't walk around with live rounds... all blanks and lasers) or they are support personnel who work in finance, logistics, the mess hall, etc..etc... They don't carry around ammo and probably don't know where or how to get to it)
3. MP's are the only ones (while a live fire mission isn't taking place) who typically carry or have access to live ammo and it's a limited amount of ammo at that.
4. The only time a large amount of soldiers have live ammo is during the live fire portion of each training cycle and this only lasts for 2 days max.
5. Ammo is stored far away from where soldiers are located in bunkers typically underground / inside man made mounds of dirt. These places are very thinly guarded by soldiers who may or may not be armed and if they are armed then they typically have a 9mm or an M4 and if a zombie were to attack, they wouldn't have any time to open the ammo bunkers to retrieve it. (Enter the security code, unlock the lock box for the keys to the bunkers, walk to the bunkers, enter another security code, unlock the outer doors to the bunkers, unlock the cage doors, find the right ammo for a weapon they may or may not be carrying and that's IF they opened the right bunker.)

Irwin would definitely be a good place to get supplies. There is probably enough MRE's there to last 100 people as much as they could eat for 10 years or until they started spoiling. There is a ton of ammo there as well. Everything from 120mm main gun tank rounds to 9mm pistol rounds. One would have to make sure that the ammo they are taking is not a box of blanks because there are many more times the amount of blanks than there are of live ammo and they are all stored in the same general area.

There is a ton of armored vehicles there... Probably at least 4 armored brigades worth (80 to 120 armored vehicles per brigade) if not more. Tanks, Hummers, APC's, Tracks, Fuel and water trucks all start with a push of a button. If the vehicle is locked, well... we all know how they unlocked their hummer in chapter 1.

Not a bad place to resupply.... I can wait to see how it all plays out.

Fletch,
I'm a bit confused. Man,.. this gonna be hard to say without sounding like a dick (sorry). You started off with how easily the base..er, post could be overrun and ended with how much bad ass stuff is there. Again, sorry for sounding like an ass.
I'm not sure how the Army secures their munitions but in the AF all of ours is behind super secure fences guarded by troops with M16's/M4s. M203 and M60/M240 (showing you my age) We typically carried 120 rounds each for a 20 man flight. the Rapid response force or 15/5 (meaning and additional 15 personnel had to respond to the WSA within 5 minutes)The Muns guys have access to the munitions and know which ones are which and the doors to the bunkers open pretty easy when you have the access to get in.
Now, with all that live fire ammo for the tanks and whatnot, it'd be pretty hard to overrun a base..er post so far out and them not be ready for it.
Another thing, you don't even need ammo for a tank. If you have 4 brigades worth of armored vehicles.. they don't need ammo. just drive over them and wash the treds later.

[reaper239]

yeah, but it's hard to deny the appeal of that .50 cal thudding away up there. did you know that in WWII, when the ma deuce was introduced, that the allies didn't even have to enter towns to clear them? they'd start firing the .50 into the town, and because none of the architecture stopped the bullets, the germans would just leave. there was no place to hide, and they didn't want to just sit there and die, so they would leave the town.

btw, regarding fletches post: everyone knows where the ammo is kept. hell when i was a kid on hood i knew where the ammo was kept. when a base is brought to alert, they can act very quickly, or did you forget the EXTREME sphincter tightning imediately following 9/11. i was in germany at the time and, while i happened to be off base when it happened (we lived in government housing on the economy) my mother called and told me i was going to be staying with a friend until she or my father could get home, because they were both trapped on base. of course it was my mother that got home first as my father was still on alert, but that's beside the point. within thirty minutes of the start of the attacks, the base was locked down and the soldiers were armed, live and in color. granted it is a base on foriegn soil, but it is in germany, an ally, and it was a training base. opfor is constantly ready for action as they are doing it all the time, and it doesn't take that long to draw weapons and be at the ready since that is what soldiers train to do. my guess is that it would've taken several hours for the infection to reach irwin, at which point they would have been able to arm and ready themselves. 24 hour news cycle after all, plus the internet, twitter, facebook, word would travel.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Reading that sentence with you in mind made me chuckle aloud. I just think it is stretching it to think that Michael is going mental, as the brits say (or Britts, I dunno if she has said that but I would not put it past her.) He is extremely tired, plus maybe Hope had jambalya too. That was never resolved. Hopefully Kc can answer that for us by the end of the series. lol j/k. But seriously, what did she eat?

Hhah and hahah and haahah again. Going mental and being overly stressed are 2 different things. If anyone is going mental, it would be Rilley.

[Adventureless_Hero]

Michael feeding Hope Lady's kibble...that's classic!

Personally, me thinks there is more to Hope than we have been led to believe. I keep wondering back to what she said just before riding the zip line between the Tower and the other building in chapter 24, part 3..."That's a long way." How did she know this?

And wasn't she the last to "see" Pippin alive? I mean, if there was someone who wanted revenge against the maller clan, it was Hope.

Hmmmm.

Glad you liked the joke.
I think Hope said it was a long way because someone told her how far down the zip line was or where it ended ("building across the street"). Why do you believe Hope would have wanted revenge against the Mallers though? As far as I can recall she never had any contact with the Mallers. Her mother was killed by flesh biters in the Arena, and her original Tower was over run by flesh biters (presumably led by Pin Stripes).

[Grognaurd]

In Zombie Fiction, it is classic for the majority of zombies to become zombies because they were biten by zombies. It is a classic exponential pattern of disease spreading. But, the onset of disease affects the plot of the story.

1) Fast: We're alive and "rage-class". Once the disease has erupts to critical mass, it is pretty much unstoppable. But, it essentially burns itself out. It is like Ebola. Easily spread, fast onset of symptoms followed by quick death in the 90% of the people. The natives were aware of Ebola and they would lock-down their village and the outbreak would be snuffed out. If people get sick and die too quickly, it is not very good at spreading past the point source if the population density is low.

** FT. Irwin has a 50 mile passive area-denial weapon of low density. The disease cannot get to the fort quickly so there is a lot of time to prepare. Not a lot of the zombies are going to be smart enough to hitch-hike and even fewer have the self control to not eat the driver. Even TOWTM chowed-down on Paul the moment the door opened.

2) Slow. The classic stuff. Although it spreads very slowly, it is awesome at infiltration. Too many people try to hide the bite and slip through the defensive measures. Then it can raise hell. The story has classic horror features and Lovecraftian paranoia to boot. Early in the outbreak an infected can use societies transportation system to be anywhere igniting another brushfire anywhere in the world in 24 hours.

3) Hybrid: In Ex-heroes Peter Clines' virus is more like the AIDS virus. It does not kill, the secondary infections do. So, one person might get the virus and have the flu. He bites someone and passes on the Flu and the zombie-thing. The new person might have hepatitis.... So, the outbreak evolves slowly and people have the belief that it can be contained, but the acceleration obliterates best laid plans.

We know that the disease is spread by a bite and takes over really really fast. We do not know anything about patient zero(s). I use plural because it errupts in many large cities at once. Did it just hit the first 100 top population centers or did it spark everywhere? This does not fit the fast model with a single point source model. Were a few zombies confined in multiple places and something let them all out at once? Are multiple people infected all over the world with a latent virus that is simultaneously triggered?

Do not know.

But, if we find out that it was an alien invasion were the abductees of the past are taken to the mothership and the rest of humanity subjected to the virus at the same time, to complicate things, the alien invasion happens on the same day as the Rapture so a whole bunch of other people are pulled out on the same day we get whacked with a solar flare that knocks out the satelights, I will be pretty pissed.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

In Zombie Fiction, it is classic for the majority of zombies to become zombies because they were biten by zombies. It is a classic exponential pattern of disease spreading. But, the onset of disease affects the plot of the story.

1) Fast: We're alive and "rage-class". Once the disease has erupts to critical mass, it is pretty much unstoppable. But, it essentially burns itself out. It is like Ebola. Easily spread, fast onset of symptoms followed by quick death in the 90% of the people. The natives were aware of Ebola and they would lock-down their village and the outbreak would be snuffed out. If people get sick and die too quickly, it is not very good at spreading past the point source if the population density is low.

** FT. Irwin has a 50 mile passive area-denial weapon of low density. The disease cannot get to the fort quickly so there is a lot of time to prepare. Not a lot of the zombies are going to be smart enough to hitch-hike and even fewer have the self control to not eat the driver. Even TOWTM chowed-down on Paul the moment the door opened.
---------------------------------------------------
That "buffer" zone is the critical area. The infected have to walk there. The Ft would have had a few troops/dependents coming on to base and turning because they were in town when "IT" hit, but even 50 miles driving is longer than it takes them to turn. Tommy went from zero to sixty in about ten minutes, maybe less. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) Slow. The classic stuff. Although it spreads very slowly, it is awesome at infiltration. Too many people try to hide the bite and slip through the defensive measures. Then it can raise hell. The story has classic horror features and Lovecraftian paranoia to boot. Early in the outbreak an infected can use societies transportation system to be anywhere igniting another brushfire anywhere in the world in 24 hours.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The classic zombie case would give the base tons of preparation time. Sun Tzu says prepare the battlefield. Well, they'd have crazy advantage with their familiarity with the terrain. Chopper some artillary up to the hills, dig trenches or build dunes (plenty of sand). 50 miles for a walker is a lifetime.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3) Hybrid: In Ex-heroes Peter Clines' virus is more like the AIDS virus. It does not kill, the secondary infections do. So, one person might get the virus and have the flu. He bites someone and passes on the Flu and the zombie-thing. The new person might have hepatitis.... So, the outbreak evolves slowly and people have the belief that it can be contained, but the acceleration obliterates best laid plans.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loved "Ex Heroes" by the way. I have the sequel in my kindle, but haven't started it yet.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We know that the disease is spread by a bite and takes over really really fast. We do not know anything about patient zero(s). I use plural because it errupts in many large cities at once. Did it just hit the first 100 top population centers or did it spark everywhere? This does not fit the fast model with a single point source model. Were a few zombies confined in multiple places and something let them all out at once? Are multiple people infected all over the world with a latent virus that is simultaneously triggered?

Do not know.

But, if we find out that it was an alien invasion were the abductees of the past are taken to the mothership and the rest of humanity subjected to the virus at the same time, to complicate things, the alien invasion happens on the same day as the Rapture so a whole bunch of other people are pulled out on the same day we get whacked with a solar flare that knocks out the satelights, I will be pretty pissed.

I know KC is gonna go all KC'ish on us and shoot holes all in our military strategies, but I'm going to enjoy it while I can.