Will Angel Ever Take Control of the Tower?

**Rock Daddy** · May 24th, 2011, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

Nik, Ra1th,

Ouch, Ouch, and OUCH! oh, and Rock.. huh? LOL

Ok, what i'm seing is a lot of "If's" and no concrete evidence. Angel showed a lack of threat assessment and Operational Risk Management by leaving Hope alone first off.
Pippin was considered a threat. So, you have your bird in the hand and the alarm as your bird in the bush. All threats are taken care of by priority or proximity. The closest threat was Pippin.
Someone may say that "oh, but in the end he was really a threat" That's conjecture to the highest degree. The facts are he wasn't trusted, he was to be watched and he wasn't to remain in that room. His "Unknown" status rules him as a threat until it's no longer deemed to be so.
That wasn't the case here. So, Angel making the mad dash off is pertinent. Poor RA, Poor ORM and poor situational awareness.

Rock says that "MAYBE" there was no place to hide? Why wouldnt' there be? They're on the 5th floor and there are plenty of rooms, plenty of other residents to take her. So, Hope's safety is the number one priority.

The ONLY reason to leave Hope in the room is IF there were an immediate threat in the hallway. There was none. There were no bullets flying, no bombs, no screaming. Angel had time to assess the situation then act on that. He didn't. He reacted.

The Armory being robbed is yet another IF and an attempt to give his actions credit. What we DO have is a simple alarm going off. Rats, water, faulty wires, Lady..any number of things could set off an alarm.

When your car alarm goes off in the middle of the night, do you rush into the street? Hell no! You look out the window first. That's a threat assessment. If you see somebody hanging around it or smashing in your windows... you either call the cops OR your arm yourself and take care of the threat.

If you and your old lady are sleep and the house alarm goes off, or the sound of breaking glass wakes you guys up, do you jump out the bed and run down stairs or do you tell your girl to stay there or hide in the bathroom? You look after her first then you grab your crowbar...eheheh (sorry, sorry.) and SLOWLY head out to investigate.

Angel didn't do any of that. It was a mad dash to see about an alarm. An alarm, not an actual incident. Add insult to injury, but Hope is BLIND! Let's say there was a break in into the armory, or there was an attack.. who's going to MAKE SURE Hope is safe? Pippin? Who's going to make sure Hope get's out the room if they need to evac?

You cats are acting like Burt had Nukes or bio weapons in there. A few M4's going missing doesn't equal the loss of life or lives that happened. I'll add this tid bit too, they're communication abilities are done now.
That places them is such a vulnerable spot it's ridiculous. They have no way to gather information from the field.

Ra1th, Charisma is an inate ability to manipulate people into doing things. It's charm/appeal. Ok, I'm outty. Can't hang. I have one star to take to the airport. I'll catch you cats on the flipside.

Crowbar, I think you've managed to clear up some sloppy thinking on both parts here. As for me, I think I'm just not making sense to anyone now, so I'm out until next time.

PS: Angel can still be the Tower leader (Original Thread Topic)

**nikvoodoo** · May 24th, 2011, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Rock Daddy

Crowbar, I think you've managed to clear up some sloppy thinking on both parts here. As for me, I think I'm just not making sense to anyone now, so I'm out until next time.

PS: Angel can still be the Tower leader (Original Thread Topic)

....original thread topic......oooooooh yeah.......

No. No he can't....mainly because we're about to leave the Tower and he'll never be able to lead it! BAM! SEMANTICS!

**Ra1th** · May 24th, 2011, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

Nik, Ra1th,

Ouch, Ouch, and OUCH! oh, and Rock.. huh? LOL

Ok, what i'm seing is a lot of "If's" and no concrete evidence. Angel showed a lack of threat assessment and Operational Risk Management by leaving Hope alone first off.
Pippin was considered a threat. So, you have your bird in the hand and the alarm as your bird in the bush. All threats are taken care of by priority or proximity. The closest threat was Pippin.
Someone may say that "oh, but in the end he was really a threat" That's conjecture to the highest degree. The facts are he wasn't trusted, he was to be watched and he wasn't to remain in that room. His "Unknown" status rules him as a threat until it's no longer deemed to be so.
That wasn't the case here. So, Angel making the mad dash off is pertinent. Poor RA, Poor ORM and poor situational awareness.

Rock says that "MAYBE" there was no place to hide? Why wouldnt' there be? They're on the 5th floor and there are plenty of rooms, plenty of other residents to take her. So, Hope's safety is the number one priority.

The ONLY reason to leave Hope in the room is IF there were an immediate threat in the hallway. There was none. There were no bullets flying, no bombs, no screaming. Angel had time to assess the situation then act on that. He didn't. He reacted.

The Armory being robbed is yet another IF and an attempt to give his actions credit. What we DO have is a simple alarm going off. Rats, water, faulty wires, Lady..any number of things could set off an alarm.

When your car alarm goes off in the middle of the night, do you rush into the street? Hell no! You look out the window first. That's a threat assessment. If you see somebody hanging around it or smashing in your windows... you either call the cops OR your arm yourself and take care of the threat.

If you and your old lady are sleep and the house alarm goes off, or the sound of breaking glass wakes you guys up, do you jump out the bed and run down stairs or do you tell your girl to stay there or hide in the bathroom? You look after her first then you grab your crowbar...eheheh (sorry, sorry.) and SLOWLY head out to investigate.

Angel didn't do any of that. It was a mad dash to see about an alarm. An alarm, not an actual incident. Add insult to injury, but Hope is BLIND! Let's say there was a break in into the armory, or there was an attack.. who's going to MAKE SURE Hope is safe? Pippin? Who's going to make sure Hope get's out the room if they need to evac?

You cats are acting like Burt had Nukes or bio weapons in there. A few M4's going missing doesn't equal the loss of life or lives that happened. I'll add this tid bit too, they're communication abilities are done now.
That places them is such a vulnerable spot it's ridiculous. They have no way to gather information from the field.

Ra1th, Charisma is an inate ability to manipulate people into doing things. It's charm/appeal. Ok, I'm outty. Can't hang. I have one star to take to the airport. I'll catch you cats on the flipside.

Burt might not have nukes in there, but do you remember how devastating it was the last time the armory was raided? the Tower lost all of their ammo, and then had to fight the mallers wihtout ammo, and subsequently they lost a number of lives in that attack. So yes the ammo room is absolutely the priority over protecting the blind girl from the prisoner who's chained to a wall.

Who's going to "MAKE SURE" Hope is safe? safe from what? what's the threat? the hypothetical assault on the tower? when angel ran out of the room, he had no reason to believe that Hope was in any danger.

Once again crowbar, we have hindsight on this issue, you're blaming Angel for going after the armory instead of guarding hope. At that point in time, Angel had reason to believe the armory was being raided, and he had no reason to believe that Hope was in any danger. Could he have told hope that he'd be right back? yeah sure that would be nice, but surely you realize that in times of crisis or when there's heavy pressure on you sometimes people make small mistakes, this was a small thing that he forgot to do, Even if he told her to hide that wouldnt have done her any good, she's blind, she cant do that by herself. If he had taken the time to hide her before he left, then the raider of the armory woulda gotten away. Also what reason did he have to hide her? he had none, there was no threat to hope. there was no reason to hide her. Had angel NOT gone after the armory I'm sure you would have bashed him for that too, oh he fails as a leader because he wants other people to do his job for him.

**Ra1th** · May 24th, 2011, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

....original thread topic......oooooooh yeah.......

No. No he can't....mainly because we're about to leave the Tower and he'll never be able to lead it! BAM! SEMANTICS!

bet you anything we wont be leaving the tower anytime soon, too much shit is in LA. Ink, ground zero, Lizzy (burt and saul aren't leaving without here) they aint leavin till at least the next season imo

**Ra1th** · May 24th, 2011, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

You obviously didn't read it so now I am going to scream it at you.

ANGEL LEFT A CHILD ALONE AND DEFENSELESS AND THAT IS A HORRIBLE THING TO DO AS A HUMAN BEING! WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED TO HEAR?

This has nothing to do with information I have that Angel doesn't. AN ALARM IS GOING OFF IN THE ARMORY AND YOU ARE SITTING IN THE ROOM WITH A 14 YEAR OLD GIRL WHO CAN'T DEFEND HERSELF! And you think that nothing bad might happen if someone is stealing weapons? "How could she possibly be in danger if someone is raiding the armory??!!" Are you serious???

If there was no threat at the time, why did Angel even have to leave? If it was just a simple robbery why run off so quickly? If there wasn't a threat, he should have sauntered down the hallway to inquire as to what was happening. There was danger, because he ran as fast as he could away. Your thoughts aren't matching Angel's actions right now.

Pippin has little to nothing to do with this argument. He was always just a qualifier for why Angel was wrong for leaving Hope alone in the room. The major point is he left Hope alone without giving her a second thought.

Talk to me in a few years when you are closer to having children yourself and tell me that what Angel did makes perfect sense.

The guard room is an apartment. There are places to hide. He may not have expected her to go anywhere, but you have to be clear. Especially to a teenager.

Two words. "Hope hide" the end. That's all that needed to happen. You're both telling me Angel can't spare enough breath for two words? really?

if it was a simple robbery, why leave? because he needed to catch the culprit, that's why he would leave.

And i think rock daddy just pwnd your telling hope to hid argument

hope didn't need to defend herself, she wasn't in danger.

**nikvoodoo** · May 24th, 2011, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Ra1th

bet you anything we wont be leaving the tower anytime soon, too much shit is in LA. Ink, ground zero, Lizzy (burt and saul aren't leaving without here) they aint leavin till at least the next season imo

Yeah, you're probably right, but all that said I'd love it to happen just to claim (the most hollow via semantics) victory ever!

Originally Posted by Ra1th

if it was a simple robbery, why leave? because he needed to catch the culprit, that's why he would leave.

And i think rock daddy just pwnd your telling hope to hid argument

hope didn't need to defend herself, she wasn't in danger.

And I'm pretty sure Crowbar schooled all of us, and explicitly pointed out how and why she was in Danger.

**Leedo2502** · May 24th, 2011, 01:39 PM

Far be it from me to keep defending Angel but if the shit goes down I'm not going to be worried about the 14 yo blind girl. I am going to secure the Armory and on the way I'm grabbing someone and sending them to the guard room and then grabbing someone to back me up. Angel did the right thing in my book

**Ra1th** · May 24th, 2011, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Yeah, you're probably right, but all that said I'd love it to happen just to claim (the most hollow via semantics) victory ever!

And I'm pretty sure Crowbar schooled all of us, and explicitly pointed out how and why she was in Danger.

I'm still not seeing why she was in any danger, she was in a room with a prisoner, who was chained to a wall. no danger there. Yeah if a zombie attack happened, she's screwed but thats about it.

**cupcakezombie** · May 24th, 2011, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

And can I just mention how much this seems like the night time/day time shift? Crowbar and RD will cover the mornings and early afternoons, while Ra1th and I will handle afternoons to third shifts?

Thanks Nik, way to just out and out discount my input. jk