Will Angel Ever Take Control of the Tower?

[Ra1th]

Amen, Ra1th! In the first few episodes Angel deferred to Michael cause he had battlefield experience in the real world. Well, I'd say Angel has plenty of battlefield experience now- everyone in the Tower's a 'steely-eyed missile man' by now...

I don't think he wants command, but if Michael were killed he'd have to accept the reins.

this brought tears to my eyes

[nikvoodoo]

Nik, leaving a 14 year old girl alone in the guard room is not a mistake. THis is the most ridiculous statement I've heard from you EVER. If the armory was being raided, then FUCK the girl, because every soul in hte damn tower depends on the ammo in the armory.

Tell me this, in that situation there were two choices,

Leave the girl with tied up prisoner who's chained to a wall, and check who's stealing our ammo.

OR

when the alarm goes off in the armory, Hmmmm lets stay here instead, i'm sure SOMEONE ELSE WILL TAKE CARE OF IT. i'll just stay here and protect hope. if he had done that you would have come down harder on him for not hcecking out the goddamn armory.


You fail to understand why it is such a hard concept for people to latch on to? "leaving a 14 year old blind girl wiht a man you dont trust" Ok i'll tell you why. BECAUSE THE ARMORY IS BEING RAIDED. And here's another thing Nik, leaving hope with pippin DIDNT END UP KILLING HER. Pippin never so much as touched the girl. YOUR THEORY FAILS THERE. its over. Leaving hope with pippin is not the problem. Hope is not dead because Angel left her with pippin, and then pippin killed her. The rat assassinated her. SO blame the rat not pippin for hope's death. Angel was right in leaving her to check the armory

I've just about had it with this argument with you. The fact that you're missing the larger point in this is really starting to annoy me on a level I can't even explain. Ignore Pippin. He's not in the room anymore and it's just Angel and Hope. When suddenly....an alarm goes off in the armory! "ZOMG WAT DO????WAT DO???" The fact that Angel's first instinct is to not protect the child in the room is the point. He runs off and leaves a child alone when there is something dangerous happening AND he does nothing to protect her. No hide here, go in there and sit tight. Nothing. He left a 14 year old to defend for herself when in your scenario, someone is stealing everything in the armory and could come out guns blazing unless Angel gets there first!

So with removing Pippin from the situation, can you finally see the issue? HE RAN OFF WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT THE CHILD'S SAFETY!. I do not understand how you can even try to defend that point. It's indefensible to not even acknowledge her existence at that moment.

Now, layer Pippin back in as a man no one trusts....*shrug* That's really all I have to say about it.

shutup you have no proof

Neither do you. At least I have Riley's words to back me up that she wasn't with Angel at that time. And Riley was in the hallway, you'd figure someone would note her going into Angel's room instead of her own.

[Ra1th]

I've just about had it with this argument with you. The fact that you're missing the larger point in this is really starting to annoy me on a level I can't even explain. Ignore Pippin. He's not in the room anymore and it's just Angel and Hope. When suddenly....an alarm goes off in the armory! "ZOMG WAT DO????WAT DO???" The fact that Angel's first instinct is to not protect the child in the room is the point. He runs off and leaves a child alone when there is something dangerous happening AND he does nothing to protect her. No hide here, go in there and sit tight. Nothing. He left a 14 year old to defend for herself when in your scenario, someone is stealing everything in the armory and could come out guns blazing unless Angel gets there first!

So with removing Pippin from the situation, can you finally see the issue? HE RAN OFF WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT THE CHILD'S SAFETY!. I do not understand how you can even try to defend that point. It's indefensible to not even acknowledge her existence at that moment.

Now, layer Pippin back in as a man no one trusts....*shrug* That's really all I have to say about it.

Oh and you wouldnt? you yourself said that you would do the same thing. You yourself said that anyone in the tower would do the same thing. He ran off wihtout thinking about the child's safety, she was safe. Pippin was not a threat to her. Pippin never touched her. No one could have predicted that the rat would come in and shoot up the place. So I would say he did think about her safety. he checked, hmm oh pippin is tied to a wall. ok, hope is relatively safe, Now i have bigger fish to fry, and he left to go check out the armory, which if it gets raided, EVERYONE IN THE TOWER SUFFERS and MANY will die



Yeah i can't back up that Riley is straight, doesn't mean that you can back up that she's gay, so we'll leave it at that.

[itsallgoodie]

why so many posts. the answer is no. just no.

[nikvoodoo]

Oh and you wouldnt? you yourself said that you would do the same thing. You yourself said that anyone in the tower would do the same thing. He ran off wihtout thinking about the child's safety, she was safe. Pippin was not a threat to her. Pippin never touched her. No one could have predicted that the rat would come in and shoot up the place. So I would say he did think about her safety. he checked, hmm oh pippin is tied to a wall. ok, hope is relatively safe, Now i have bigger fish to fry, and he left to go check out the armory, which if it gets raided, EVERYONE IN THE TOWER SUFFERS and MANY will die

I said I would check on the alarm, AFTER I told the defenseless child to hide.

Stop thinking about Pippin. Pippin is not the point of my argument, he and his untrustworthy-ness was just a factor of it. Maybe this is something you won't understand until you're closer to having children yourself but I'm going to lay it out for you one...last....time....and I'm going to do it without caps lock on because I want you to read it and not react to me screaming it.

Angel, your boy, left a 14 year old girl alone without giving her any instruction to hide herself because there was something dangerous happening down the hall. I'm not even saying Angel had to hold her hand and hide her in a closet. All he had to say was "Hope, hide!" Two words. If he had simply done that, nothing ever comes out of my mouth about this topic, and World War Angel stays at a cease fire. But he didn't. He ran out of the room without thinking of her once. That, to me, is reprehensible.


And the reason I brought up Riley in the way I did was to bring some levity to the argument

[Ra1th]

I said I would check on the alarm, AFTER I told the defenseless child to hide.

Stop thinking about Pippin. Pippin is not the point of my argument, he and his untrustworthy-ness was just a factor of it. Maybe this is something you won't understand until you're closer to having children yourself but I'm going to lay it out for you one...last....time....and I'm going to do it without caps lock on because I want you to read it and not react to me screaming it.

Angel, your boy, left a 14 year old girl alone without giving her any instruction to hide herself because there was something dangerous happening down the hall. I'm not even saying Angel had to hold her hand and hide her in a closet. All he had to say was "Hope, hide!" Two words. If he had simply done that, nothing ever comes out of my mouth about this topic, and World War Angel stays at a cease fire. But he didn't. He ran out of the room without thinking of her once. That, to me, is reprehensible.


And the reason I brought up Riley in the way I did was to bring some levity to the argument

Well if this is your last time saying it then I can just beat this point over your head a few more times and I don't have to expect a response

Stop thinking about pippin? Why? He is the basis of your argument, you say its his fault for leaving Hope in danger by leaving her wiht pippin. What other danger to her was there? No one could have predicted the shooter.

There was no threat to Hope when ANgel left her. There was no reason for him to tell her to hide. The tower was not under attack. THe armory was being raided. Under those circumstances, There was no reason to tell her to hide. You think that he should have told her to hide, because you have facts that we the audience have, and you have hindsight, things that Angel did not have. You also have time to think out your actions. Angel had none of these things. Angel was under pressure, THe girl was relatively safe from Pippin. The tower was not under attack. There was no perceived danger to Hope at the time. There was no reason to tell her to hide. If this is still "reprehensible" to you, then you are not able to see this clearly from the perspective of that character during that initial crisis. Now would it have been nice to tell the girl, hey i'll brb. and then take off? yeah but guess what? he had more pressing matters than the feelings of a 14 year old.

take a good look around you voodoo. There's not a soul here who supports your argument that he was wrong about not considering Hope's safety. Face it, you've lost.

[Rock Daddy]

Angel, your boy, left a 14 year old girl alone without giving her any instruction to hide herself because there was something dangerous happening down the hall. I'm not even saying Angel had to hold her hand and hide her in a closet. All he had to say was "Hope, hide!" Two words. If he had simply done that, nothing ever comes out of my mouth about this topic, and World War Angel stays at a cease fire. But he didn't. He ran out of the room without thinking of her once. That, to me, is reprehensible.

Maybe there was no where to hide, and it would have put Hope into more of a vulnerable situation to be crouched next to something. Also, Angel closed the door behind him when he rushes out, showing that he wanted to keep her safe, and doesn't want Hope to move from that spot. I don't think he expected her to go anywhere! Why kill time explaining that, when the thief could be getting away? (She's blind, not stupid. And a young adult) Just happens that there's a rat that likes to play dirty. Not his fault.

[nikvoodoo]

You obviously didn't read it so now I am going to scream it at you.

ANGEL LEFT A CHILD ALONE AND DEFENSELESS AND THAT IS A HORRIBLE THING TO DO AS A HUMAN BEING! WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED TO HEAR?

This has nothing to do with information I have that Angel doesn't. AN ALARM IS GOING OFF IN THE ARMORY AND YOU ARE SITTING IN THE ROOM WITH A 14 YEAR OLD GIRL WHO CAN'T DEFEND HERSELF! And you think that nothing bad might happen if someone is stealing weapons? "How could she possibly be in danger if someone is raiding the armory??!!" Are you serious???

If there was no threat at the time, why did Angel even have to leave? If it was just a simple robbery why run off so quickly? If there wasn't a threat, he should have sauntered down the hallway to inquire as to what was happening. There was danger, because he ran as fast as he could away. Your thoughts aren't matching Angel's actions right now.

Pippin has little to nothing to do with this argument. He was always just a qualifier for why Angel was wrong for leaving Hope alone in the room. The major point is he left Hope alone without giving her a second thought.

Talk to me in a few years when you are closer to having children yourself and tell me that what Angel did makes perfect sense.

Maybe there was no where to hide, and it would have put Hope into more of a vulnerable situation to be crouched next to something. Also, Angel closed the door behind him when he rushes out, showing that he wanted to keep her safe, and doesn't want Hope to move from that spot. I don't think he expected her to go anywhere! Why kill time explaining that, when the thief could be getting away? (She's blind, not stupid. And a young adult) Just happens that there's a rat that likes to play dirty. Not his fault.

The guard room is an apartment. There are places to hide. He may not have expected her to go anywhere, but you have to be clear. Especially to a teenager.

Two words. "Hope hide" the end. That's all that needed to happen. You're both telling me Angel can't spare enough breath for two words? really?

[Rock Daddy]

What would telling a Blind girl to hide really do for her? You think anyone would be able to predict that a killer would show up seconds after Angel ran away? I'll bet you that had Angel heard gunshots, and realized that there was an actual attack on the tower, he would have had her bunker down, and protected her. He simply went to check out an inside alarm. Remember, until now, nobody regarded ANY of the allies inside the Tower as murderers. Also, if they constantly lived under the idea that "anyone in the tower can be a murderer at anytime" or "any disturbance is an attack" they'd be all dead by now. I don't tell my son to run and hide everytime I hear a loud bang in the other room, until I investigate. However, if the entry door alarm to the WHOLE HOUSE sounded, THEN, I'd tell him to stay closed in a room, (OR I'D SHUT HIM IN), while I check down the hall and investigate.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Nik, Ra1th,

Ouch, Ouch, and OUCH! oh, and Rock.. huh? LOL

Ok, what i'm seing is a lot of "If's" and no concrete evidence. Angel showed a lack of threat assessment and Operational Risk Management by leaving Hope alone first off.
Pippin was considered a threat. So, you have your bird in the hand and the alarm as your bird in the bush. All threats are taken care of by priority or proximity. The closest threat was Pippin.
Someone may say that "oh, but in the end he was really a threat" That's conjecture to the highest degree. The facts are he wasn't trusted, he was to be watched and he wasn't to remain in that room. His "Unknown" status rules him as a threat until it's no longer deemed to be so.
That wasn't the case here. So, Angel making the mad dash off is pertinent. Poor RA, Poor ORM and poor situational awareness.

Rock says that "MAYBE" there was no place to hide? Why wouldnt' there be? They're on the 5th floor and there are plenty of rooms, plenty of other residents to take her. So, Hope's safety is the number one priority.

The ONLY reason to leave Hope in the room is IF there were an immediate threat in the hallway. There was none. There were no bullets flying, no bombs, no screaming. Angel had time to assess the situation then act on that. He didn't. He reacted.

The Armory being robbed is yet another IF and an attempt to give his actions credit. What we DO have is a simple alarm going off. Rats, water, faulty wires, Lady..any number of things could set off an alarm.

When your car alarm goes off in the middle of the night, do you rush into the street? Hell no! You look out the window first. That's a threat assessment. If you see somebody hanging around it or smashing in your windows... you either call the cops OR your arm yourself and take care of the threat.

If you and your old lady are sleep and the house alarm goes off, or the sound of breaking glass wakes you guys up, do you jump out the bed and run down stairs or do you tell your girl to stay there or hide in the bathroom? You look after her first then you grab your crowbar...eheheh (sorry, sorry.) and SLOWLY head out to investigate.

Angel didn't do any of that. It was a mad dash to see about an alarm. An alarm, not an actual incident. Add insult to injury, but Hope is BLIND! Let's say there was a break in into the armory, or there was an attack.. who's going to MAKE SURE Hope is safe? Pippin? Who's going to make sure Hope get's out the room if they need to evac?

You cats are acting like Burt had Nukes or bio weapons in there. A few M4's going missing doesn't equal the loss of life or lives that happened. I'll add this tid bit too, they're communication abilities are done now.
That places them is such a vulnerable spot it's ridiculous. They have no way to gather information from the field.

Ra1th, Charisma is an inate ability to manipulate people into doing things. It's charm/appeal. Ok, I'm outty. Can't hang. I have one star to take to the airport. I'll catch you cats on the flipside.