Who's The Rat v2.0

[Wicked Sid]

He wanted to be recognized for the position of leader. Its just a sleight to his pride.

[Ra1th]

[/B][/U]

Saying Angel has accepted Michael as the leader of the tower by chapter 5, as late as chapter 20, Angel seems disgruntled at not being considered for the position.

You seem to have missed the point when I mentioned his appearance at the party, he was late to the party, he could have done it while everyone else was at the party.

Perhaps the Scratch-Angel link is too far of a jump, but this is a theory section, also, Angel doesn't want to shout Datu when he first claims to recognise him, but he wants to shoot Scratch as soon as he sees her[/QUOTE]


Michael had stepped down as leader after the war. Burt had taken command, and then burt had given up command. Leadership was changing. Angel wanting a shot at leadership during a a point when a change of power is going on is different from hhim being disgruntled and not liking the way thing are being run. All he says is a quip saying he’d liked to have been considered for leadership, then falls under Michaels command, and acts as his second in command immediately after. There is no evidence of him being angry with the way thing are being run. He never actively states, Michael I think you should step down as leader and let me be in charge. The quip just said, it would have been nice to b have been considered for leadership during the election process of the next leader. Very different from wanting to overthrow the leader and call in the mallers

Heres the problem with your party theory. COULD HAVE does not cut it. That’s a huge leap of faith. And how was angel late to the party? You’ll have to explain that to me.

Why would angel care if Datu recognizes him or not. As far as Angel is concerned, he went to the building to see his girlfriend not ogle at the maintinence guy. Not everyone is super observant, the only reason datu could have recognized him is because he came to the tower often to see his girlfriend. The only reason he would have said he didn’t recognize datu is because he actually didn’t recognize datu because he was at the tower to see his girlfriend. Why would he care about some maintinence guy looking at him or not.

He want to shoot scratch on sight, which is interesting. It could be because she’s a maller, it could be because he recognizes her from somewhere. Its prly the latter but that has nothing to do with him beign the traitor. If he was the traitor, why would he want to shoot scratch? That makes no sense. Why shoot the mallers’ second in command?

[Crabb90]

I could see Kelly, Datu, Kalani, and possibly Burt as the rat. What if the Mallers planted Burt in that bathroom for Saul and Angel to find? Kelly is a more likely candidate than Burt, but it's just a theory. Kelly was a bit of a bitch in the beginning (Tommy's unfortunate mishap kind of changed her) and Datu had the period of pessimism, which tells me that he may have gotten tired things at the Tower and switched sides. Does anyone else think I have a point?

[Ra1th]

I could see Kelly, Datu, Calani, and possibly Burt as the rat. What if the Mallers planted Burt in that bathroom for Saul and Angel to find? Kelly is a more likely candidate than Burt, but it's just a theory.

Its a stretch to assume that Burt was planted in his bathroom for Angel and Saul. At that time they prly didnt even know of the tower's existence. Besides, they had way better opportunities to sneak people into the tower, when the tower had the we're alive sign up and was letting in any survivor they could. Plus burt's story checks out that he was being hunted by a smart one from raydon labs

[Wicked Sid]

Just to give you feedback, why would they plant him there?
How could they have known they'd be at the store within that time frame and that they weren't just stragglers and that they would have a place of residence worthy of taking?

[WestonWisdom]

Saying Angel has accepted Michael as the leader of the tower by chapter 5, as late as chapter 20, Angel seems disgruntled at not being considered for the position.

You seem to have missed the point when I mentioned his appearance at the party, he was late to the party, he could have done it while everyone else was at the party.

Perhaps the Scratch-Angel link is too far of a jump, but this is a theory section, also, Angel doesn't want to shout Datu when he first claims to recognise him, but he wants to shoot Scratch as soon as he sees her

Michael had stepped down as leader after the war. Burt had taken command, and then burt had given up command. Leadership was changing. Angel wanting a shot at leadership during a a point when a change of power is going on is different from hhim being disgruntled and not liking the way thing are being run. All he says is a quip saying he’d liked to have been considered for leadership, then falls under Michaels command, and acts as his second in command immediately after. There is no evidence of him being angry with the way thing are being run. He never actively states, Michael I think you should step down as leader and let me be in charge. The quip just said, it would have been nice to b have been considered for leadership during the election process of the next leader. Very different from wanting to overthrow the leader and call in the mallers

Heres the problem with your party theory. COULD HAVE does not cut it. That’s a huge leap of faith. And how was angel late to the party? You’ll have to explain that to me.

Why would angel care if Datu recognizes him or not. As far as Angel is concerned, he went to the building to see his girlfriend not ogle at the maintinence guy. Not everyone is super observant, the only reason datu could have recognized him is because he came to the tower often to see his girlfriend. The only reason he would have said he didn’t recognize datu is because he actually didn’t recognize datu because he was at the tower to see his girlfriend. Why would he care about some maintinence guy looking at him or not.

He want to shoot scratch on sight, which is interesting. It could be because she’s a maller, it could be because he recognizes her from somewhere. Its prly the latter but that has nothing to do with him beign the traitor. If he was the traitor, why would he want to shoot scratch? That makes no sense. Why shoot the mallers’ second in command?[/QUOTE]

I mean he was late to the party, as in, literally late, Saul mentions it, Angel just brushes it off as wanting to make an entrance.

Your explanation of why Angel disagreed with Datu is just as likely as mine in my opinion, If Angel visited the tower enough to allow Datu to think he recognises him, wouldn't Bill recognise him as well?

Not recognising Datu isn't the only possible reason Angel would deny it at all, that's just speculation, my theory at least has precedent, there are two people who recognise angel and he refutes it two times. Even so, that's enough to say Angel disagrees with people who say they recognise him on a regular basis.

And, wild theory, perhaps Scratch knows/knows something about Angel, and wants to get rid of that problem, whats the best way to get of somebody that threatens your position? Kill them, when the group refuses, perhaps scratch uses the relationship to her advantage.

[Crabb90]

I believe his name is Michael Cross, not Swan.

[Ra1th]

Your explanation of why Angel disagreed with Datu is just as likely as mine in my opinion, If Angel visited the tower enough to allow Datu to think he recognises him, wouldn't Bill recognise him as well?

Not recognising Datu isn't the only possible reason Angel would deny it at all, that's just speculation, my theory at least has precedent, there are two people who recognise angel and he refutes it two times. Even so, that's enough to say Angel disagrees with people who say they recognise him on a regular basis.

And, wild theory, perhaps Scratch knows/knows something about Angel, and wants to get rid of that problem, whats the best way to get of somebody that threatens your position? Kill them, when the group refuses, perhaps scratch uses the relationship to her advantage.

Bill wouldn’t recognize him because bill was recluse, All bill did was stay in his apartment all day. He didn’t know about anyone in the tower at all. He barely knew datu the maintenance guy, who worked and LIVED at the tower. No reason for him to recognize angel. An apartment which is on the 14th floor of the tower, very different from Cindy who I believe was on the 2nd floor. The chances that they’d run into each other, is very low.

The difference between your theory and mine? The theory that Datu recognizes Angel because angel visited his girlfriend a lot is accepted by almost everyone on the forum. It’s the most likely conclusion that can be drawn given the facts that we have been presented. To suggest that Angel not wanting datu to recognize him is because he’s the traitor is far fetched in comparison. Datu would recognize him, because Datu is out and about doing maintinence work, and he is very familiar with the tower. Datu would be able to notice changes or people other than the tower’s normal inhabitants a lot easier than Angel would. Angel comes to the tower to see his girlfriend, he doesn’t live there, he doesn’t know it all that well. To him, everything there is new to him on visits. He wouldn’t notice a maintenance guy, but to Datu, Angel would be something new and he’d take notice of him.

Neither scratch nor Datu say they recognize him. They say that he seems FAMILIAR. I’ve explained why Datu knows angel. So that cuts out one half of your theory. That leaves scratch. I’ll give you this, there is a mystery surrounding what the connection is between scratch and Angel, but to claim that that one connection makes him the traitor is a giant leap of faith.

[WestonWisdom]

Bill wouldn’t recognize him because bill was recluse, All bill did was stay in his apartment all day. He didn’t know about anyone in the tower at all. He barely knew datu the maintenance guy, who worked and LIVED at the tower. No reason for him to recognize angel. An apartment which is on the 14th floor of the tower, very different from Cindy who I believe was on the 2nd floor. The chances that they’d run into each other, is very low.

The difference between your theory and mine? The theory that Datu recognizes Angel because angel visited his girlfriend a lot is accepted by almost everyone on the forum. It’s the most likely conclusion that can be drawn given the facts that we have been presented. To suggest that Angel not wanting datu to recognize him is because he’s the traitor is far fetched in comparison. Datu would recognize him, because Datu is out and about doing maintinence work, and he is very familiar with the tower. Datu would be able to notice changes or people other than the tower’s normal inhabitants a lot easier than Angel would. Angel comes to the tower to see his girlfriend, he doesn’t live there, he doesn’t know it all that well. To him, everything there is new to him on visits. He wouldn’t notice a maintenance guy, but to Datu, Angel would be something new and he’d take notice of him.

Neither scratch nor Datu say they recognize him. They say that he seems FAMILIAR. I’ve explained why Datu knows angel. So that cuts out one half of your theory. That leaves scratch. I’ll give you this, there is a mystery surrounding what the connection is between scratch and Angel, but to claim that that one connection makes him the traitor is a giant leap of faith.

I believe Bill is only a recluse after the infection, being terrified of people "coming and ripping your fucking face off" changes a person. I also don't believe it's ever mentioned if Bill has a job or not, presuming he doesn't(he owns the building), thats a lot of free time to spend doing other things.

Just because it's accepted by the majority does not mean it is the correct answer(cleverly ignoring occam's razor), the only reason I question the belief that Datu recognises him because Angel visited the tower beforehand is that people say he looks familiar twice, and Angel denies it, twice.

Perhaps we have a different interpretation of the interaction's between Angel and Scratch, wanting to shoot someone just for being there isn't his finest moment, it seemed to me like they had interacted previously, and desperation that people within the tower could learn of this interaction led him to make the suggestion that they "just shoot them"?

I've mentioned several things that could make him the traitor, I don't mean to imply that the only reason he could be the traitor, I'm sorry, but your explanation of Angel being happy within the hierarchy of the tower doesn't really satisfy me.

[Wicked Sid]

You say "could," when in your starting post you clearly stated "without a doubt." Kind of changed your mind, haven't you?