Is Lizzy pregnant or infected?

[Ra1th]

I am here to correct you (But don't worry, I made the same mistake at one time as well). Burt was out of Shirley rounds at the time he shot Saul.

Penetration power of a bullet is determined by a lot of factors: muzzle velocity, distance, medium the bullet is traveling through, objects it comes in contact with etc etc. So it's possible to put a bullet through Tommy into Saul, but it really depends on where Tommy got shot.

Burt also says afterwards that Saul was lucky he didn't have any Shirley rounds left, that wouldnt have blown half his shoulder away. and the Saul says oh great I'm glad u didn't have a bigger gun to shoot me with.

[Tandem25]

My first instinct while listening was that Lizzy's pregnant. With what I don't know, but pregnant none the less. I'll stick with that.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Are you discounting Tommy being shot and the blood splatter getting into Saul? Or are you just saying you don't believe the bullet carried the virus?

In order for Saul to have been shot and have the wound be under his collar bone, Saul would have to be facing Burt with Tommy between them (and Tommy had his back to Burt). There are two shots fired as j0be pointed out. So there are a few ways this sequence could have gone down:

• Shot 1 hits Tommy and goes through him and into Saul, the blood splatter gets near or into Saul's wound. Shot 2 could go anywhere at this point in this scenario and it wouldn't matter.
• Shot 1 hits Saul, and shot 2 hits Tommy and any resulting blood splatter could get near or into Saul's wound.
• Neither shot hits Tommy who plays possum knowing he's being shot at. One hits Saul, and the others misses both entirely.
• Shot 1 hits Tommy but no exit wound, so the second shot hitting Saul results in no contact with Tommy's blood.

I think that's about it in terms of scenarios that result from two shots one of which has to hit Saul. The hallways don't seem to be capable of producing a ricochet so that idea is eliminated too.

The biggest issue of all though: Do you believe Burt misses at close range even when drunk? Remember, he took out three or four Mallers at close range, has picked off a couple at a distance during this fight. Is it possible? Sure it is. But I'm hanging my hat on what I described as scenario #1 I listed above.

Way to think that out man!

Yarri was discounting the virus being transmitted IF it was a "Through and Through" due to the heat (even though a shell casing isn't what enters the body) I was discounting the "TaT" all together.

I'm still sticking with one hit one miss theory then. IF Burt hit Tommy, then it wasn't a good hit because he got up and died later (fall, wound or fire???). I'm going to put great stock into Saul's line about Burt's marksmanship and also in KC's writing. I don't think the line was there if Saul was the victim of a "through and through."
What I do know about ballistics is that there are tons of factors that come into play and the most important is type round used. It'd actually be a freak accident for a "TaT" to maintain enough velocity to do damage to 2 bodies. Possible? sure. Probable? hmm...

Do I belive Burt missed at close range even though he hit other targets? Sure do. sure do, sure do!
It's one thing to shoot at people you really WANT to hit, but Tommy was a kid and he was one of them. That may have contributed to Burt's losing his "Zen" focus for that split second. Hench why he needed 2 shot and Tommy was already moving by the time the second one came.
I'm not even going to go into the possibility that Burt could have been more intoxicated at that moment than he was minutes before.

[Luna Guardian]

F Burt hit Tommy, then it wasn't a good hit because he got up and died later (fall, wound or fire???)

Tommy was zombified at the time. It means that the hit wasn't a headshot, but doesn't exclude any other "good hit". These critters can fight through single shots from rifles, a 9mm might not kill them

[yarri]

Yarri,

I've been hit by spent shell casing a LOT of times and from a good number of different weapons. Not one of them tickles. LOL.

Ok, lets say this happened:
They used Saul's knife as a scalpel substitute. What if Saul's attempt to clean said knife weren't as good as he thought? What if bleach were the only way to kill whatever was left on the blade or embedded in the hilt?
Saul is now immune, but is now a carrier. He and Lizzy swap spit...or more and now guess what?

I don't believe that, but I'm putting it out there because it's more plausible than the gun shot theory in my eyes.

Ok I will jump on your band wagon for the moment

First point :The way a virus is used to immunize someone is its weakened or killed either of these two states will trigger a response from the immune system. He could be immune other then a carrier. To be immunized doesn't mean your a carrier see second point.
Second point: To be a carrier he would have to be infected with the Z virus survive it. I don t see point 2 being realistic as no one survives the Z virus

Third point : If he is immune and he and Lizzie swapped spit and other more interesting genetic materials the resulting offspring would have a 50/50 shot at being immune.

[yarri]

Way to think that out man!

Yarri was discounting the virus being transmitted IF it was a "Through and Through" due to the heat (even though a shell casing isn't what enters the body) I was discounting the "TaT" all together.




I'm still sticking with one hit one miss theory then. IF Burt hit Tommy, then it wasn't a good hit because he got up and died later (fall, wound or fire???). I'm going to put great stock into Saul's line about Burt's marksmanship and also in KC's writing. I don't think the line was there if Saul was the victim of a "through and through."
What I do know about ballistics is that there are tons of factors that come into play and the most important is type round used. It'd actually be a freak accident for a "TaT" to maintain enough velocity to do damage to 2 bodies. Possible? sure. Probable? hmm...

Do I belive Burt missed at close range even though he hit other targets? Sure do. sure do, sure do!
It's one thing to shoot at people you really WANT to hit, but Tommy was a kid and he was one of them. That may have contributed to Burt's losing his "Zen" focus for that split second. Hench why he needed 2 shot and Tommy was already moving by the time the second one came.
I'm not even going to go into the possibility that Burt could have been more intoxicated at that moment than he was minutes before.

Never discounted the lead at all. I was talking about if the shell casing was hot enough to burn then what pray tell was the lead like? It sure as heck wasn't cool to the touch it was Red hot! which would be good enough to vaperize a coating of blood. I used the shell casing as an analogy on why I believe that the lead was hot enough to vaporize the virus that might have been on the bullet. Sorry I wasn't clear enough

My theory as it stands.. Saul has luck.. Saul has the luck of the gods.. Saul Tink is the luckiest bastard alive. Its part of his character. Burt rarely misses even when drunk. He shot Tommy it was a glancing flesh wound.. It resulting little bundle of misshapen red hot sizzling lead hit Saul and penetrated under the subclavian artery. (which is why it bled like a stuck pig) It was malformed when it w as removed it was stated after surgery that it was oddly shaped either a miss fire or it hit someone else first as in Tommy jr zombie wanna be. Saul did get hit with Tommy's blood but here is where his luck comes in.. It got him in the face but missed his mucosa membrane and missed his wound. The skin gentleman is the body' s first and best defense against invaders. It's one of the first lessons a nurse is taught.. wash your hands and keep the skin smooth and supple.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Ok I will jump on your band wagon for the moment

First point :The way a virus is used to immunize someone is its weakened or killed either of these two states will trigger a response from the immune system. He could be immune other then a carrier. To be immunized doesn't mean your a carrier see second point.
Second point: To be a carrier he would have to be infected with the Z virus survive it. I don t see point 2 being realistic as no one survives the Z virus

Third point : If he is immune and he and Lizzie swapped spit and other more interesting genetic materials the resulting offspring would have a 50/50 shot at being immune.

Yah! What she just...said!

[yarri]

If anyone wants me to go into natural immunity I will but that is a lot rarer.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

Never discounted the lead at all. I was talking about if the shell casing was hot enough to burn then what pray tell was the lead like? It sure as heck wasn't cool to the touch it was Red hot! which would be good enough to vaperize a coating of blood. I used the shell casing as an analogy on why I believe that the lead was hot enough to vaporize the virus that might have been on the bullet. Sorry I wasn't clear enough

My theory as it stands.. Saul has luck.. Saul has the luck of the gods.. Saul Tink is the luckiest bastard alive. Its part of his character. Burt rarely misses even when drunk. He shot Tommy it was a glancing flesh wound.. It resulting little bundle of misshapen red hot sizzling lead hit Saul and penetrated under the subclavian artery. (which is why it bled like a stuck pig) It was malformed when it w as removed it was stated after surgery that it was oddly shaped either a miss fire or it hit someone else first as in Tommy jr zombie wanna be. Saul did get hit with Tommy's blood but here is where his luck comes in.. It got him in the face but missed his mucosa membrane and missed his wound. The skin gentleman is the body' s first and best defense against invaders. It's one of the first lessons a nurse is taught.. wash your hands and keep the skin smooth and supple.

Ok... I'll buy that for a dollar!
I still believe Burt missed with one of his shots, but I'll defer to Yarri's theory on this.. because she's cool like that. Really though, that was a good one Yarri. I do know that rounds fragment or flatten when hitting a body. HP vs SJ have different penetration depths, so the one in Saul could have been one with just his name on it.
I'm going to listen to the episode yet again to see what he was shooting and what rounds (if they say).

[blue rage]

I believe Lizzy is infected. Here's why: when Saul and burt entered the furniture store Saul remarked how bad it smelled. Now it being a furniture store there shouldn't be anything in there to rot. Also none of the mallers said anything about it smelling bad. So what changed lizzy threw up all over the place. Normal puke isn't going to stink up the whole store. But if her insides were slowly rotting? We all know the zombies have a horrible smell. Just throwing it out there