Chapter 31 Family Ties Part 2

[7oddisdead]

Worked fine for me...

[nikvoodoo]

I found it to be an apt comparison. Though I doubt Barney has ever defended his position with such vigor as Osiris re: Scratch.

[Free_Falling86]

The entire story goes back to the shot heard around the world. Burt shooting out the mirror of the tanker truck during the pissing contest between Scratch and himself, back in season one. Put two stubborn people in a locked room and see how long it takes before they go at each other. From there everything escalates, like you read about. We all listened, so we all know how it happened, most of us just choose to take a blind eye to it all and live in denial because of the way the story was introduced to us: The Tower are the 'good guys'.

The long and short of the Latch saga is simple. Her brother was murdered (self-defence being arguable) and like anyone else--argue this if you like, but I'll stand behind this to the day I die--she wanted blood for it. Justifiable 100%. As far as what 'made' her 'psychotic,' we still don't have all the details on that. You can say it was being repeatedly raped by a member of 'the family' but truth is, we still don't know. We don't know if it's simply the light she's being portrayed in or not. We're all very much guessing (I don't care what anyone says, the story isn't finished and the story itself is inherently biased, deal with it) at this point, and will likely see the series finale leaving us with a lot of unanswered questions.

I very much agree with this. As much as I love We're Alive (and that is a whole honking lot), it is told pretty much told in the protagonists' (read: Tower members) point of view, as many stories are. So anyone against the protagonists are shed in a negative light for the most part, which is the case with Scratch. The story is not told with an omniscient narrator so when we first meet Scratch and Latch, we as the listener are not supposed to like them. Suffice to say, her actions towards the Tower certainly don't endear the listener to her, but there is more to Scratch than what we've been given. We will most likely never get to hear her story, and if we do, it will still most likely be cast down by our heroes. Scratch is a murderer, Scratch is evil, Scratch is no better than the biters, so why should we care... However, I have always found the antagonist the most interesting. Maybe it's because they're mysterious and we usually never get to hear their story, but I still can't help but be interested and like them. I sometimes can't agree with their methods and means but I certainly can see where they're coming from (99% of the time that is).

One thing that is a bit of a pet peeve of mine is when people slap labels on characters willy nilly. Like calling Scratch psychotic and psychopathic. The truth of the matter is, we really don't know. I wouldn't categorize her as psychotic because she doesn't fit the bill. She doesn't have false beliefs that are not based in reality nor is she hearing, seeing, or feeling things that are not there. She knows exactly what she's doing. She's just trying to figure out how to get to that point. And, well, she maybe psychopathic, but there's just as a high percentage if not higher that she isn't. Psychologists actually are arguing about psychopathy and what it is and what personality elements should be included in its definition. If the experts are having a hard time figuring it out, how are we supposed to know. The truth of the matter is we don't. She may have certain behavioral characteristics that fit in within the current psychopathic definition, but we still can't say that she's a psychopath because all we're given is the witness and stories told of her bad actions. We were lucky to get a bit of back story from Scratch (thank you Kc!!!) that wasn't inherently shown in a negative light. But I'm afraid those moments will be few and far between. But it is understandable why she's accused of it because psychopathy tends to be used as a label for people we do not like, cannot understand, or construe as evil. And I understand why people hate her. Heck, the only villain I loathe is Iago from Othello, and I wanted to take a knife and run him through. But I just can't see Scratch in that manner.

Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

[Osiris]

Worked fine for me...

Zip it, nurf herder.

[Osiris]

I very much agree with this. As much as I love We're Alive (and that is a whole honking lot), it is told pretty much told in the protagonists' (read: Tower members) point of view, as many stories are. So anyone against the protagonists are shed in a negative light for the most part, which is the case with Scratch. The story is not told with an omniscient narrator so when we first meet Scratch and Latch, we as the listener are not supposed to like them. Suffice to say, her actions towards the Tower certainly don't endear the listener to her, but there is more to Scratch than what we've been given. We will most likely never get to hear her story, and if we do, it will still most likely be cast down by our heroes. Scratch is a murderer, Scratch is evil, Scratch is no better than the biters, so why should we care... However, I have always found the antagonist the most interesting. Maybe it's because they're mysterious and we usually never get to hear their story, but I still can't help but be interested and like them. I sometimes can't agree with their methods and means but I certainly can see where they're coming from (99% of the time that is).

One thing that is a bit of a pet peeve of mine is when people slap labels on characters willy nilly. Like calling Scratch psychotic and psychopathic. The truth of the matter is, we really don't know. I wouldn't categorize her as psychotic because she doesn't fit the bill. She doesn't have false beliefs that are not based in reality nor is she hearing, seeing, or feeling things that are not there. She knows exactly what she's doing. She's just trying to figure out how to get to that point. And, well, she maybe psychopathic, but there's just as a high percentage if not higher that she isn't. Psychologists actually are arguing about psychopathy and what it is and what personality elements should be included in its definition. If the experts are having a hard time figuring it out, how are we supposed to know. The truth of the matter is we don't. She may have certain behavioral characteristics that fit in within the current psychopathic definition, but we still can't say that she's a psychopath because all we're given is the witness and stories told of her bad actions. We were lucky to get a bit of back story from Scratch (thank you Kc!!!) that wasn't inherently shown in a negative light. But I doubt that will be few and far between. But it is understandable why she's accused of it because psychopathy tends to be used as a label for people we do not like, cannot understand, or construe as evil. And I understand why people hate her. Heck, the only villain I loathe is Iago from Othello, and I wanted to take a knife and run him through. But I just can't see Scratch in that manner.

Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

All true.

[Osiris]

I found it to be an apt comparison. Though I doubt Barney has ever defended his position with such vigor as Osiris re: Scratch.

Meh. The work speaks for itself now.

[Leedo2502]

I wonder when CJ got the SWAT van, and if she shared that information with her prior "tenants". An armored van full of guns might have made all the difference when the Dunbar Tower survivors attacked the Arena to rescue Samantha. If they were kept in the dark about its existence than I think that's another hit on CJ's leadership.

It didn't seem like the other Tower types were left wanting in the guns dept. I think the SWAT van was just back-up. And unless it was parked behind the Dunbar Tower then it really doesn't come into play for when they get over run

[Ray]

The truth of the matter is, we really don't know.

What would you call getting a false confession from someone, cutting them deep in the process to get the zombies to smell the blood, and then leaving them to die? How would you explain her baiting the Tower guys into meeting them at the golf course, and then having an innocent 14 year old girl executed? Is that the work of a sane person? Murdering innocent people in cold blood to get vengence? I understand fully why she wants to kill Pegs, but neither of those two people had anything to do with Pegs shooting Latch. Absolutely nothing. Hannah didn't even know Pegs, but she was executed all the same. She's killing, maiming, and torturing people to get what she wants. Where exactly have any of the Tower residents done the same? They've risked their lives and their safety multiple times to save people they didn't know. The very beginning of the series started with Michael saying that they owed it to people out there to save them, and give them a better chance at living. I don't see how the difference could be any more clear.

[Leedo2502]

Yea, it's looking like my CJ is SWAT theory got a bump in the right direction. I have a whole thread dedicated to it. The fact that CJ just so happens to have a SWAT van (remember folks, one of CJ's minions was SWAT!) and a pile of SWAT like munitions. Sure it could just be the fact that one of her minions was SWAT and that's how she came to possess the SWAT van, but then you are still left with the question of just exactly where did CJ get her skills? She's well trained in close quarters combat, firearms, strategic planning and quartermastering (for lack of a better word).

Ok not to burst your bubble... If CJ was on a SWAT team that doesn't mean much. SWAT teams are pretty much concerned with EBCR (Enter Building, Clear Room). THeir training is so specialized that it is almost a hinderance in other feilds. Think of them as an olympic sprinter, they are great at the one thing they focus on but lost anywhere else. Saul being an Infantryman is far better equiped to handle the post-apocolyptic zombieland that is LA. Saul Michael and Angel would be considered decathletes, they are far better trained to deal with the broad spectrum of dangers.
The Nashvile SWAT guys we cross trained with at FT. Campbell were pretty much one trick ponies, They focus on the target building then break it down on the target room(s) and then operate from a secured enviorment then make an assault on the target, if they take casualties they use EMS. Drinking coffee in a mobile command center before an assault on a cordoned off building isn't the same as a movement to contact in the woods or an urban enviorment.

Long story short, CJ may be SWAT but at this point in the story it really doesn't matter except she would be handy with a rifle and that's it.

On a side note I'm not sure what the difference between a "SWAT like Munition" and a regular round is... and what is "Quartermastering?"

[Ray]

I'm surprised that Saul is so dependent on CJ for planning. From what I know of the 10th Mountain Division, I wouldn't think that they would have any problem thinking clearly and planning missions. Then again, he is a poor shot but that's a common trait in the Army. It may be just that Saul sucks at it, but it kind of goes against his backstory of infantry experience.