Chapter 45-3: Distorted Truths

[Litmaster]

I meant innocent of the crime he was accused of. That is my fault for making that clear. She accussed him of sleeping on the job and letting a tanker get stolen on his shift and not hers. So he was innocent in that regards. He was beat until he 'admitted' the crime. He was cut as well and threatened to be left alive outside until he confessed to a crime he didn't commit. Then when he did she shot and killed him.

No, it was Latch that actually shot him, remember? Scratch complained that he wasted a bullet. But the rest of your facts are valid.

[TacticalJHP]

That was my reply to your post about "How far is too far?" and "At what point did the lines disappear?" I was pointing out that those are things that only exist in the day after, something that most people in extreme situations (especially in the WA universe) do not see.

[Litmaster]

And we're back to inferring intent... see how shitty and circular this argument is? Lizzy should never had thrown her hat into the ring, and Scratch never would have taken it as an act of aggression, and things would have ended differently. Burt could have simply shut his mouth, and put his own ego aside, and backed down... but he didn't. You're putting a lot of emphasis on what isn't on the tape, while being entirely dismissive of what is.

Osi, you are so entirely full of shit it's amazing it isn't squirting out of your ears. All Lizzy did was approach to negotiate, and your beloved Scratch came out with "Back up! Back up now! Back up, bitch! Or I'll shoot!" Those were her very first words in the story. Fact, not opinion.

The fact is, SCRATCH was the first one to show aggression, not Lizzy, Burt, or Saul. If anyone 'fired the first shot', it was her. You can continue to defend her as much as you want, but it only makes you look like more of a lunatic...

[Osiris]

Osi, you are so entirely full of shit it's amazing it isn't squirting out of your ears. All Lizzy did was approach to negotiate, and your beloved Scratch came out with "Back up! Back up now! Back up, bitch! Or I'll shoot!" Those were her very first words in the story. Fact, not opinion.

The fact is, SCRATCH was the first one to show aggression, not Lizzy, Burt, or Saul. If anyone 'fired the first shot', it was her. You can continue to defend her as much as you want, but it only makes you look like more of a lunatic...

You're fucking high, clearly. Fact is Lizzy had NO business stepping in to do anything.

You should re-listen to that episode. Pay attention to Burt's laughter when he says "we've got them out-gunned." He was already preparing to take a dominant stance. Latch and Scratch don't make any threatening moves until Lizzy decides to approach.

"She moved on us. How can we trust her."

Saul even says, straight up, Burt would have reacted the same when they found him if he hadn't been unconscious. Burt agreed. THIS IS IN THE EPISODE. So even the characters in the show agree that I'm correct in this. Burt's flippant and arrogant behaviour, and the threatening.

Go back and listen to the episode, and listen to the way he talks to her. He calls her ugly, calls her a cunt, threatens to shoot her, all because she's enforcing her claim on their property. I'm listening to the scene as I type this. I'm telling you, beyond any shadow of a doubt, you are wrong.

But don't let the audio available to you cloud your judgement, brotato. Continue on as you were.

[7oddisdead]

so...why do I feel the need to tell the two dudes who are supposed to be "leaders" on the forum to chill the fuck out? for reals

this was fun for a bit...but its devolving into a pissing match.

and for the record, I side mostly with osi. (hear that buddy?) but fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck me, this argument will never see any resolve...let it go.

[Osiris]

so...why do I feel the need to tell the two dudes who are supposed to be "leaders" on the forum to chill the fuck out? for reals

this was fun for a bit...but its devolving into a pissing match.

and for the record, I side mostly with osi. (hear that buddy?) but fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck me, this argument will never see any resolve...let it go.

All I do is pose a simple question, and suddenly:

[7oddisdead]

I look at it like this. being an avid reader of "grim/dark" type fantasy, the focus is generally on the perceived bad guys. by the end of the story, you find yourself rooting for the bad guy to get his revenge by the end....flip that tale around, and you have?///???? yup...scratch.

perception is key. that I can agree with.

and in our current scenario with tardust, yea...hes done a buttload of bad shit. but, in his moment of saying "screw this, maybe I can at least live...maybe if they find scratch, take her out....then, then I just have to find a way to slip out and im gone...no more worries" but...now he finds hes in the hands of those he helped break. in my eyes, regardless of his past, this makes him a sympathetic character(in this moment at least).

[Storm]

and for the record, I side mostly with osi. (hear that buddy?) but fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck me, this argument will never see any resolve...let it go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

[Osiris]

I look at it like this. being an avid reader of "grim/dark" type fantasy, the focus is generally on the perceived bad guys. by the end of the story, you find yourself rooting for the bad guy to get his revenge by the end....flip that tale around, and you have?///???? yup...scratch.

perception is key. that I can agree with.

and in our current scenario with tardust, yea...hes done a buttload of bad shit. but, in his moment of saying "screw this, maybe I can at least live...maybe if they find scratch, take her out....then, then I just have to find a way to slip out and im gone...no more worries" but...now he finds hes in the hands of those he helped break. in my eyes, regardless of his past, this makes him a sympathetic character(in this moment at least).

I don't think I can ever see Tardust as being sympathetic. I don't really care one way or the other if he lives or dies through the next few episodes. I think he's the least interesting character in the story, and nothing more than a plot device used to force a choice within a more important character. The most interesting part of the last episode is the conflict between Riley and Burt, albeit minimal.

[7oddisdead]

jus' makin a point, bro.

his maller name could have easily been "plot device", that's entirely true. the point being, in the moment riley steps back into the room shouting.. who is the sympathetic character? most peoples perception leans towards riley, but certain people (myself included) felt for the situation tar is in. that has little to do with liking the character, finding him interesting, etc. its more how you perceive the situation and the characters involved.. now that I really think about it, this entire scene is probably more about burt than either of these two characters, or at least it should be. perhaps his conflict with being on the other end of the torture should have been a bit more pronounced. not sure if that's on scott, or kc. (insert blaire blame here)