If you could rebuild?

[yarri]

You seem intent on not giving me the benefit of the doubt on this point, so you get all the gory details.

I was an officer in the US Army, and between 1987 and 1991 I was assigned to a unit near Stuttgart, in Southwestern Germany. Ours was the only US combat unit in that part of Germany, but we had two very high level US military headquarters in our area, HQ US European Command and HQ US VIIth Corps, which meant that our area was lousy with senior officers and they spent a lot of time watching us. One of the closest NATO units was the Canadian Forces stationed near Baaden Baaden, their only major deployment in Europe at the time.

During my time in Stuttgart I heard many American, German and French officers, up to the General officer level, question the value of the Canadian Land Forces Brigade. It was understrength, and it had the oldest, least modern hardware of any frontline NATO force. Even the Canadian's shared these doubts. I remember hearing a Canadian Ground Forces General refer to that unit as a "speed bump" on one occassion and as a "token" on another.

None of this was ever directed at the Canadian soliders themselves, man for man they were as good as anyone. The Canadian tank crews we worked with had old, un-modernized Leopard I tanks that were positively ancient compared to the factory-new M-1A1s my troops had, but they knew how to fight them and maintain them and I would have trusted them on my flank any time.

So, did my original statement include some implicit criticism of arrogant Americans...yes. But it was never intended as a sweeping indictment that all Americans are arrogant. It was a personal narrative of my own experiences and came from interactions with a very narrow range of individuals.

Ok, we'll address the first part... its not about me giving you the benefit of the doubt. It's me asking you what you actually meant and giving you the opportunity to explain what you actually meant rather then me assuming you were being a judgmental ass and lumping in all Americans into a grossly limited group.

I was enlisted between 86 and 93 stationed in Europe for half of that and my own "delightful" experiences with the antics of military units that were not under the American command but I'll not go into that.
I notice you bring up German, and French officers that bashed the value of the Canadian military.. in this post but not the original.. its popular overseas to bash Americans.. but who am I to question that.. You are entitled to your opinion I won't try and change it. I only asked for a reason behind it.

[reaper239]

You seem intent on not giving me the benefit of the doubt on this point, so you get all the gory details.

I was an officer in the US Army, and between 1987 and 1991 I was assigned to a unit near Stuttgart, in Southwestern Germany. Ours was the only US combat unit in that part of Germany, but we had two very high level US military headquarters in our area, HQ US European Command and HQ US VIIth Corps, which meant that our area was lousy with senior officers and they spent a lot of time watching us. One of the closest NATO units was the Canadian Forces stationed near Baaden Baaden, their only major deployment in Europe at the time.

During my time in Stuttgart I heard many American, German and French officers, up to the General officer level, question the value of the Canadian Land Forces Brigade. It was understrength, and it had the oldest, least modern hardware of any frontline NATO force. Even the Canadian's shared these doubts. I remember hearing a Canadian Ground Forces General refer to that unit as a "speed bump" on one occassion and as a "token" on another.

None of this was ever directed at the Canadian soliders themselves, man for man they were as good as anyone. The Canadian tank crews we worked with had old, un-modernized Leopard I tanks that were positively ancient compared to the factory-new M-1A1s my troops had, but they knew how to fight them and maintain them and I would have trusted them on my flank any time.

So, did my original statement include some implicit criticism of arrogant Americans...yes. But it was never intended as a sweeping indictment that all Americans are arrogant. It was a personal narrative of my own experiences and came from interactions with a very narrow range of individuals.

from what you describe here, they were right. there was no real value to having the canadian forces there at that time other than to soak up bullets. at that time in history, everyone was still worried about the russians, and i have to say that a Leapord I would be easy pickings for a T-72. an understrength unit is only going to get people killed, and get in the way when the full strength units swing around to engage, so it sounds like their concern was not the value of canadian troops, but the strategic and tactical value of any unit that size with that equipment in that location. true, canadian soldiers are some tough guys, but i wouldn't have wanted to be them if the russians came to play. a side note, every tank seems inadequate next to the unbridled fury that is the Abrams. undeniably the best tank in the world, none can stand before it. mwahahahahahaha.

[yarri]

from what you describe here, they were right. there was no real value to having the canadian forces there at that time other than to soak up bullets. at that time in history, everyone was still worried about the russians, and i have to say that a Leapord I would be easy pickings for a T-72. an understrength unit is only going to get people killed, and get in the way when the full strength units swing around to engage, so it sounds like their concern was not the value of canadian troops, but the strategic and tactical value of any unit that size with that equipment in that location. true, canadian soldiers are some tough guys, but i wouldn't have wanted to be them if the russians came to play. a side note, every tank seems inadequate next to the unbridled fury that is the Abrams. undeniably the best tank in the world, none can stand before it. mwahahahahahaha.

Interesting perspective.

[Osiris]

You seem intent on not giving me the benefit of the doubt on this point, so you get all the gory details.

I was an officer in the US Army, and between 1987 and 1991 I was assigned to a unit near Stuttgart, in Southwestern Germany. Ours was the only US combat unit in that part of Germany, but we had two very high level US military headquarters in our area, HQ US European Command and HQ US VIIth Corps, which meant that our area was lousy with senior officers and they spent a lot of time watching us. One of the closest NATO units was the Canadian Forces stationed near Baaden Baaden, their only major deployment in Europe at the time.

During my time in Stuttgart I heard many American, German and French officers, up to the General officer level, question the value of the Canadian Land Forces Brigade. It was understrength, and it had the oldest, least modern hardware of any frontline NATO force. Even the Canadian's shared these doubts. I remember hearing a Canadian Ground Forces General refer to that unit as a "speed bump" on one occassion and as a "token" on another.

None of this was ever directed at the Canadian soliders themselves, man for man they were as good as anyone. The Canadian tank crews we worked with had old, un-modernized Leopard I tanks that were positively ancient compared to the factory-new M-1A1s my troops had, but they knew how to fight them and maintain them and I would have trusted them on my flank any time.

So, did my original statement include some implicit criticism of arrogant Americans...yes. But it was never intended as a sweeping indictment that all Americans are arrogant. It was a personal narrative of my own experiences and came from interactions with a very narrow range of individuals.

Word, bitch. Canada like a motherfucker. It's absolutely true about Canadian arms. They are ancient by the standards of many countries, but we don't dump a lot into the military. We do train out troops hard--I am well aware of that, having family that serve--but when you only have seven tanks, two planes and one sub... how hard can you really train?

Small world. On the drive home from work today I listened to the latest edition of "The Walking Dead Cast" podcast and they were doing a review of Pontypool! Sounds intriguing.

I really enjoyed the movie. I though that Stephen McHattie did a fantastic job as Grant Mazzy. He reminded me so much of Art Bell. If you've ever listened to Art, get a copy of Pontypool, close your eyes and just listen for a few minutes to Mr. Mazzy. It's unfuckingcanny. I loved the fact that the entire movie takes place in a radio station, but you don't even realize it.

[VEE]

If I were to rebuild it would mostly involve trying to repopulate humanity with the assistance of Riley.