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Hear ye hear ye!
It's been about a year since we last took a vote from the populace regarding who in the Johnny Walker Blue Blazes is the Rat of the Tower!!
We're all older, wiser, and we have a gigantic soup bone dangling in front of our faces at this particular moment. So.....let's hear it! Who's the Rat of the Tower?????
I still go with Bill as the thief.
But who's the rat? Or are they one in the same for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellbringer
Yeah, I think I originally voted Bill as the rat, but I don't want any "cliffhangers" (reading that other thread) influence my decision making now. Therefore, I figure I'll come completely out of left field in the Soccer Stadium (for now) and say it's someone not mentioned yet. It goes against all conventional Hollywood drama series wisdom, meaning it has to be someone mentioned previously in the series, but I can't commit to it being someone we have heard from or about yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
I'm now the guy Brian from Family Guy hates during voting season.
so..i pulled this poll up this evening and all the sudden the sparrows that live in my beard started shouting kalani! kalani!..kalani the rat!
i said
" whoa there, true believers! thats what you've been lead to believe!...but lets examine things a lil closer, shall we??
who has always been somewhere close by when the perverbial shit has hit the fan?
who made friends with the hawiian bad boy early on in his tower time?
who has a mysterious brother, living somewhere in the states?
who has done worse things, so he claims...then throw dead bodies over a balcony?
thats right true believers, mighty king datu the fucking resourceful!!!
eck-cel-sior!!
the little sparrows just stared at me like i was a total idiot...
Steven has been a bit of an arse for the entire time we've known about him, so I think it might be him. In all honesty, I don't have a clue, there is so much conflicting evidence for everyone it might be.
This is still sooo open, I have no idea, I know there's a red-haring, and I'm not falling for it!
To begin, it is easiest to assume that the same person is all three. AS LONG As caveats are used to remind one of the assumption.
Second, I am going to start with the major characters becuase we know the most about their whereabouts in addition, it will be a better story if is a character of note that can be followed through the story. There would be a riot on the boards if we find out that it was really Col. Mustard in the Library with the Lead Pipe.
I am hard pressed to place most of the characters at the scene of each crime.
Michael-- I do not think he is a pulling an OJ "If I did it..." So, take him of the list. IN addtion, the Thief happens while he is on the water-mission.
Angel-- Not present for Theft. Nearly impossible to trip the alarm, shoot Pippen and meet Michael in the stairs
Burt, Away at Theft, away at Assassin
Saul -- Away at theft, away at Assassin
Kalani / Datu -- away at thetf, away at Assassin. I will ellaborate here a bit. My assumption is that the innocent one would not leave the tower with the alarm sounding. Even if Kalani and Datu left after the alarm started I find even less unlikely that when question about it would day, nope I did not hear an alarm.
Riley -- Away at theft.
Lizzy -- Away at Assassin
Victor / Tanya / Hope not present for Season 1
Tommy not present for season 2 or forward
Steven Not even a redshirt for Season 1. Not available for season 3 forward.
Pegs, Dun? She is not listed by Angel as not having an alibi. But it could be an oversight. She was not on guard duty, because she was doing something else.
Kelly -- dun, dun, dun
Both Pegs and Kelly return to the tower from the colony as did Michael's silent pistol
Both Pegs and Kelly are at the tower at the time of the theft
Latch and Scratch show up at the tower just after Pegs guard shift and durring Kelly's.
Last, Peg's is the one that pushes for the party instead of getting some more of Burts ammo etc.
More speculative
Tending the garden on the roof, she would probably have more interaction with Bill.
Bill appears to freely mix with tower's residence the day after the theft and one of the first things he does is hit on Pegs. I do not think it is coincidene. I think they were kinda chummy and Bill does the whole show up at the same party and leverage the advance with Alcohol.
Withered Cortex Failure...
Michael's arm gets pretty banged up again durring the war. One of the sparrows from 7odd's beard reminded me that Pegs says, there is some ice up in Bill's apartment. I'll go get some. or something like that. Is that the only place to have ice? Run up the 10+ flights of stairs. So, by her own words she says she knows that there is ice in Bill's apartment. I have to go back and relisten. I cannot remember if she goes or if she comes back.
Next time I will write as though all three events are not connected.
Still vote Saul.
No amount of logic will deter my current course of non-action. Even after the Rat is revealed, I will still vote Saul.
I still have to stand behind the Kalani being the Rat and the Assasin. The thief, on the otherhand, was Bill.
Here is my interpretation of a timeline for Kalani:
Kalani flew into LAX from Hawaii . Coming in loud, they were swarmed by zombies and only 3 people made it off the tarmac including Kalani and Hannah.
Kalani and company saw a group of survivors from the window of a nearby hotel and ran to them.
These survivors were in fact the Mallers although he let Michael and company believe they went straight to the Other Tower.
The Mallers recognized Kalani's special relationship with Hannah and used that as leverage to get Kalani to work for them, specifically to infiltrate the Other Tower. I believe Scratch probably detailed to Kalani exactly what she would do to Hannah if she did not have his full cooperation.
When Kalani starts working for the Mallers he is given the nickname "Kalani". We know the Mallers all use nicknames and Datu mentioned that his name did not match his face when first meeting Kalani in the Arena.
While in place at the Other Tower, Kalani is found out. I suspect something he did might have lead to the security breach that let in the One With The Markings.
When the Other Tower fell, Kalani was taken to the Arena.
After being rescued by the "We're Alive" Tower, Kalani is put on guard duty.
He uses this opportunity to contact the Mallers to let them know he's still alive and ensure Hannah's continued safety.
The Mallers are happy to learn they now have a man inside the "We're Alive" Tower and also learn about the missing guns and the upcoming party.
The Mallers then mobilize for their seige on the "We're Alive" Tower.
In Season two, Kalani goes with Angel on a mission to collect the MREs.
Kalani gets very nervous that Angel is unexpectedly contacting the Mallers. Scratch would not have been happy that Kalani failed to forewarn her of such a meeting.
When Angel tells him the body they are carrying is Latch, Kalani quickly denounces any knowledge of who Latch is to conceal his ties to the Mallers.
When meeting up with Skittles, Skittles said he recognized Kalani. This was probably from his time at the Other Tower, since Skittles was reported to have been there when it was overrun.
Twice on the mission, Kalani tells Angel to leave him to die.
I think Kalani may have hoped his death would somehow keep Hannah safe, that Scratch would have no need to threaten/harm her with Kalani out of the picture.
After Angel refuses to let him give up, Kalani becomes loyal to Angel and the "We're Alive" Tower, and ends all contact with the Mallers, hoping they'll assume he died. Perhaps he hoped to be reunited with Hannah one day or was just consoled with the idea that she would still be alive somewhere.
When Pippin arrives there is now someone who could ID Kalani and either tell the Tower of his past connection with the Mallers or tell the Mallers he is in fact alive.
On the day Kalani and Datu head out to work with the Jolly Green Giant:
1. Datu is in the Parking Garage getting the car ready while Kalani goes to to tell Michael (on the 5th floor) that they are leaving.
2. Kalani then goes down to the 4th floor and cuts the wire in the hall before ducking into a neighboring apartment.
3. Angel leaves the Guard Room and heads up to the 5th floor Armory.
4. Kalani slips in, shoots Pippin and takes out the radio/communications.
5. Kalani heads down to the Parking Garage and leaves with Datu, who had the music turned way up.
6. Kalani checks in with Burt over the radio and "learns" that communication with the Tower is out, giving the impression that they were en route at the time of the shooting.
With Kalani no longer in contact with the Mallers, Hannah is now dispensable, to be used in the fake Lizzie hand-off.
Scratch is true to her word in how Hannah is killed. This is also a message she would want to send to Kalani in the event that he was still alive. Scratch would want Kalani to know it was Hannah, and that his actions lead to her death.
When Kalani hears about the fake Lizzie and how she was killed, he is convinced this red-head girl had to have been his Hannah.
In a heroic act of redemption, Kalani sacrifices himself for the Tower members he once betrayed. He tells Angel he hid his journals in Bill's desk which includes the story of all his dealings with the Mallers.
Kalani also tells Angel "That girl, that was my Hannah". This was the final peice of information Angel would need (after reading his journal) to piece together why he did what he did.
The time line is dead on from how it seems,but you miss one point kalani and datu left after angle checked them out. But i think it went down like this. Datu in the car music up fiddling with his pack. Kalani walks up to him "we should get going." Datu agrees starts the car. Angel runs in asks have you been here the hole time. Kalani says yes and the they should leave before wasting any gas. Angel says your right get going. And they leave.
So if angel would have asked more questions they would have found him out before he died. But it makes for a better story the way it went down.
I went back to listen again, and at 6:19 in Episode 22 Our Doubts Are Traitors Part 2, Angel says, "So we grabbed the other radio from the roof and brought it down. Datu says he and Kalani were together the whole time and left before anything happened."
I don't think Angel would have said they left before anything happened if he was able to question them in person after the shooting.
Interestingly, during Chapter 11, Riley dissapears off at 05:50, only letting Pegs know she was going and not letting anyone know where she was going. Did she contact the Mallers? Maybe....
But the problem with Datu saying he was with Kalani the whole time is Kalani would have had to run down 6-7 flights of stairs in a minute. Datu may believe he and Kalani were together at the time of the shooting, but the odds are that's not true. This is actually a conversation we had on the upcoming WND #29, so I won't expound on it anymore at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombiphobe
I'm pretty sure I've had a different answer for this poll all three times we've done it now. But awhile back I pretty much staked my claim on Riley being the rat, and I'm sticking with it to the bitter end. I'll admit Kalani seems pretty likely right now, but we've had so many red herrings, we can take anything for certain until we hear an actual confession (posthumously if necessary). And until I hear that I'm gonna ride my "Riley's the rat" to the end...right off a cliff if I have to.
Riley: An interesting tidbit is that Riley can not say Pegs. Fir her it is pihgs. So Riley would not bring Pegs name up on the radio.
Mallers. Scratch met Burt with the tanker and Michael in the stairway. So she could recognize them by voice.
Pegs. She talks to them on the radio at the war. Even if they had been listening in the whole time and could know everyone (later Tardust says he had to listen to all their bird talk). Scratch and Durai may have pretended not to know her. Durai and pegs could be negotiating in open code requesting a couple more weeks or days) But talks break down because of shots fired.
Still lots of unknowns.
Thief
Rat
Shooter
Assassin
Could be one or more people.
If one did all I am pretty sure Kelly is the only one left alive and well known to us
Remove shooter and it could be
Kelly or Pegs
Add back shooter and remove thief
Kelly. The weakness here is Kelly with gun in season 1 seems odd. But season two shows a surprise. When asked by gatekeeper what type of gun, she plays dumb. Fast forward a few days to the escape from the colony. I do not remember the direct quote, but it is something like, here Pegs, you take the M16 and I'll take the gloc. That makes me scratch my head. She does not know the m16 even after three months of lessons of lessons from Burt? She calls the hangun by name even though we have never heard of that type of pistol. Maybe she learned from Burt or criminal case. But it is one of things that makes me say hmmmmm and file it away.
This is reinforced later when they rescue Tanya. Michael tells her to stay put. But she runs and shoots very well. So well that Michael says Kelly?!?
im gonna throw something just flat out...bat-guano crazy up in here...but how about this...tanya has transferred all the journal data up to this point,correct? well...when/if she see kalanis journal...what if...
samatha and kalani have very similar handwriting?..
I STILL hold onto the belief that we did not get the entire story at the arena...while i highly, highly doubt that craziness i just said will come to pass..i'll bet my beard its something similar...the thing we need to keep in mind is while in most cases we have a clear(well, ok...clear as mud) view into the "hows" of a "kalanis the rat" or a "kelly's the rat"...there just seems to be way to many small openings for someone whos incredibly crafty to sweep in, do what needs to be done, and make it look like..."oh kalani, what have you done??"
example: everybody(myself a few months ago as well) tried to place kalani in position to shoot pippen and run down to the car. the question i have is, do we REALLY know that datu was just down there twiddling his thumbs or whatever? no. our only eyewitness was a blackout drunk lurking on the staircase..who didnt notice a large hawiian white guy pass her, so would she have noticed datu saying "oh hey kalani, hold on..i was just grabbing this cassette from my room"
so i say while we are looking for someone to lay the blame on...also look at who could possibly be setting that person up. with any good mystery, your told just enough to figure it out...and then when you get ALL the details...:facepalm: :D
Not to be douchey, but what does this have to do with the Rat?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche
** Bleep Bleep **
I'll find a home for it before the End of Day (unless a fellow admin/mod finds it before I do). It's not like it's a poor post.....it just doesn't belong here.
...and Nik, here's the problem with that "Kalani would have had to run down 6-7 flights of stairs in a min." Kalani, the big out of shape Hawaiian?Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
it goes in the "Have you noticed this?" or the "Loopholes" thread.
I "moved" it to the "HYNT" area under "Story Theories".... i think.
Someone correct me but, Kalani is "Hawaiian" he's not just "FROM" Hawaii right?Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
Kalani claims he's Hawaiian, but Datu says his appearance doesn't match his name. So.....there's that.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
And that was my point about Kalani running down the stairs. He's a fat out of shape Hawaiian who can't run fast (or for that long) so Datu saying he was with Kalani the whole time is most likely not true because Pippin would have been murdered at a time when Kalani was still in the stairwell (if he's being truthful and went directly from Point A to Point B)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Datu said that? really? time stamp/chapter? Now I have to go back and listen.
You're right, if Kalani killed the Brit, then he'd be huff'n and puff'n.. his big ass shirt would be soaked
If we try to hold everything together in "real time" Kalani has about 60 seconds to leave Michael, climb down two, three, four? flights of stairs and leave with Datu.
If we line up the alarm beeps, Michael is opening the door ~5 seconds. Angel is a little later at closer to 10. The are speaking to eachother around 15 seconds.
This where I get confused. My memmory is that KC said that Burts roomo was on the same level as the guard room. This makes no sense. Angel and michael are on the landing of the stairs for respective floor about the same time. We hear them clatter on the stairs. If Burt's room is on the same level as the guard room, why does Angel go to the stairs? Michael may have gone to the stairs, because all he knows is there is an alarm. then Angel tells Michael its from Burts Armory. If that is on the same floor that Michael is already on, how does Angel beat him there?
The only way it makes sense is that Burts room is one floor below Michael and one above Angel. The shots occur about 24 seconds and the alarm is shut off at about 40 seconds
Crowbar, I do not think we actually hear Datu or Kalani say they left before the alarm. Instead, Angel reports to Michael that Datu and Kalani said they had left. This is at the same time they discuss the others' alibies and those that were alone.
For those who question the whole, "he doesn't look Hawaiian" thing...just do a google image search on the word kalani...it takes a couple pages, but you do find at least one Caucasian looking guy with the traditional island name...so they do exist, maybe not too many..but..yea
They were on the same level before the War. After the war the guard room is on (I believe) on the 5th floor, and the Armory is on the 6th. Which would have meant Michael was on the 7th floor with Tanya I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche
having a Hawaiian name still doesn't make him "Hawaiian". Anyway, we've been over this Kalani looks thing on characters thread. I meet you half way and say he can be biracial and leave it at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
I read where KC said they were on the same floor as well. Man, that's gonna take some serious digging to find that one comment in that old thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...7703#post17703Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Found it!Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Great get Nik. I am so anxious to know that I have most likely over analyzed the timing.
But this section of the story confuses me. If they really were as high in the tower as you indicate, then Kalani could most likely not make it to Datu in time.
But, the shooting occurs about noon. Why so late? Saul and Burt find the chopper the night before. Before they can go anywhere Kalani has to OK the chopper? Why the hell do they wait until noon to send Kalani and Datu?
We are running out of time in the day for all the events.
Noon
Datu and Kalani Arrive about 1:00. It may be later, but I do not want to go back right now.
Pegs and victor arrive about 2:30
Say some frogging around until 3:00
Kalani and Burt go back to the tower to get Riley and Angel about 4:00
5:00 they leave the second chopper (probably more)
5:30 they drop off Angel and return to LA
6:00 Michael gets to LAX
7:00 golf course.
We seem to be able to cram everything in, but it is tight.
This begs the question why wait so late to send Kalani and Datu? Prepping to leave the tower is moot if the helicopter is broken. Hope arrives the morning of day 1. By day to noon Datu has the sound hooked up for Hope?..... With all the shit going on, Datu hooks up speakers when they plan to get the hell out of dodge ASAP?
If I put my reality guy hat on, it appears Datu hooks up the outside microphones only to ensure Hope would be in the guard room as an alibi.
It was Datus ex-wife. She still loves him anD was afraid Pippin was going to get lucky. OK, maybe not.
Ah crap, gotta run. More later maybe
Well, I just finally got around to listening to WND 29 and it has gotten the wheels in my head turning about Kalani.
I'm still riding my "Riley is the rat" thery to the bitter end but this popped into my head and I haven't seen it mentioned yet so here goes:
Kalani says he flew from Hawaii and crashed at LAX and that only three people made it off the tarmac. If Kalani is one of those three and this Hannah (most likely the redhead from the Golf Course) is the second, then who's the third? What if the third person was Pippin? I know he claimed to have been hiking nearby when the outbreak occured, but we know he was sent as a spy by the Mallers so that story could have been a lie like his escape story.
So I'm going to throw out this possibility: Kalani, Hannah, and Pippin escape from the tarmac only to be captured by the Mallers. Kalani gets sent to infiltrate The Other Tower with the Mallers holding Hannah hostage as collateral. The Other Tower falls and Kalani is taken to the Arena where he is rescued by folks from The Tower. At first he acts as a mole by contacting the Mallers during the party, but after the War he chooses to break contact. Pippin is then sent in to reestablish contact and is shot by Kalani to cover his secret.
I have flown this up the flagpole in the past( not entirely sure where, possibly the crackpot thread) and to me it seems a very reasonable answer...another thing you could note to that as a connection would beQuote:
Originally Posted by HardKor
Riley was a chef, correct?...just before pippin was shot, he was discussing food with Kelly. Seemed to be quite the conesiuer(sp? Damn autocorrect not working)...but he could possibly know of riley that way, and up to that point I don't believe they had seen one another...just helping your riley case
nice theory anyways! :D