Military and Government

Sorry nik or jobe or whoever has to fix these. But I could find anything dedicated to the military

Where the hell is the military. Why are the only military personnel we've seen is Michael angle and Saul? Should there be other units actively serving. Oh and in dates words of datu where are there tanks and shit. There should be roaming military unless they are somewhere where all military is together. This leads me to believe that there is still some sort government left (like a fallout 3 scenario).

But that's just me any one else got any thoughts

Again sorry if you have to move this

I believe that all of the military (who made it) are in one location. At the beginning, if Michael, Angel, and Saul's commander would of survived and made it too them, he would of let them know where they should go. (Prob the evac site at the airport.) And that evac site was probaly picking up all the military and civilians that it could until it got overran. And once it got over ran they just gave up that area and took everyone that they could to the main location, whereever that is. It might not be anywhere close to where the party is now.

Or maybe just maybe they get lucky and they are all at fort Irwin. But I find it hard to believe that Michael angle and Saul were the only soldiers called

Yeah, I'm definitely thinking most of the military was called in to run the evac. stations at LAX, the Colony, and probably other places. Michael, Angel and Saul just never got the message because they're the only ones who made it to their base.
And now I'm wondering where those evac. stations were sending people to. I wonder if we might not stumble across a "safe zone" at some point and find out its been overrun and is now a bloodbath like Saul and Burt found at LAX only larger. Maybe that's what they'll find at Fort Irwin.
There are probably pockets of military left though. Possibly along with some scientists or doctors who have knowledge about what caused the outbreak.

You have to bear in mind that the US Military is spread pretty thinly around the country. Most of the Regular Army is based in the South and the Plains States; the only Regular Army force of any significance in California is at Fort Irwin. The Marines have two major ground force bases in SoCal (Camp Pendelton and 29 Palms), with the rest of their land forces on the East Coast. The Navy has bases all up and down the East and Gulf Coast, but on the West Coast they're huge in San Diego and Puget Sound, with very little in-between.

The Reserve Forces are more broadly distributed, with thousands of little reserve and national guard bases scattered around the country, like the one that Michael, Angel and Saul started at in Bell. These bases have only skeleton staffing when the Reservists/Guardsmen aren't training, and it takes hours, or even days to call everyone in during a "normal" emergency, and we saw how poorly that system worked in the zombie apocalypse.

Given the events we know about in We’re Alive I figure that one of three things is happening with the military.

1. The Southern California outbreak is the only one.

The only places we know, definitively, that have suffered zombie outbreaks are Los Angeles and San Diego. If these were the only ones the United States had to contend with we’d probably see military assets directed to contain the outbreak, with orders to go on the offensive and “liberate� the contaminated zones once more information and reinforcements were forthcoming. I imagine hordes of zombies battling entrenched armored forces, holding the passes between the LA Basin and the Mojave Desert, the Central Valley and the Coastal Plain—which might explain why we see so few zombies on the streets of LA. The big downside to this idea, there should be military aircraft all over the LA area bombing and doing recon work.

2. There were many outbreaks around the country, but they occurred in clusters.

If most, or all of the major urban areas around the country were hit at the same time you could expect to see them overrun just like Los Angeles was. The military would quickly be reduced to its major bases in isolated areas and those Reserve forces that can be drawn from areas that weren’t initially targets. At a minimum the military would be practicing severe “economy of force�, trying to hold key communications nodes (passes, air and sea ports, etc.) attempting to establish large “safe areas� for refugees, and building up forces for eventual counter-attacks to take back territory lost to the zombies. It’s easy to imagine that LA would be low on the priority list for re-conquest, which would explain the total absence of outside military forces.

3. There were outbreaks everywhere.

This is the doomsday scenario. What military forces that weren’t overwhelmed in the early hours are probably hunkered down, attempting to hold the ground they’re sitting on, and waiting for the end.

Good point I never thought of it like that. And hardkor didn't they say Irwin was in the middle of no where? Why put a green zone where it would be hard to get to

If there was a crisis like this martial law would have been intiated right then! Now you guys say nah angel saul and michael are the only ones who survived! now im guessing a platoon to a company oprated this base???? doubtfull im thinking maybe a battilion! thats 1,000-3,000 people! and ur telling me it took less than one day to infect a huge poplation and over run the standing military maybe if it was a month of sick people leading up but no news? if a few hundred citizens could survive there is no way no way the military didnt survive! maybe not in the LA area but there somewhere in the country there is a part of the country largely un-touched by the infected where that is who knows! but the military can not be destroyed by a zombie outbreak the military would be the last large group of people to be wiped out!

And why were Michael angel and Saul the only ones showing up too the base?

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Originally Posted by StickUpKid

And why were Michael angel and Saul the only ones showing up too the base?

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Nice Sig ;)

Good news! The military is aware of the problem and taking preparatory action. Here's the link to the new (fictional) US Army Zombie Combat Command: http://zombiecombatcommand.com/

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Originally Posted by StickUpKid

And why were Michael angel and Saul the only ones showing up too the base?

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They we're just lucky to make it there. If that group of 7 in 1.1 hadn't decided to go for the honker, Michael could have easily been one of the ones who didn't show up as well.

And we know that others did show up. Well, at least 1 other. Let me refresh your memory w/ a quote,

"did you really have to run over the commander!"
"he was in the way..."
"you swerved to hit him!"
"Saul quit f**king around!"

Others were called, they we're just the lucky 3 who made it.

Yea sorry I saw that and thought it was the funniest shit

But just 3 hard to believe but okay

Let me clear this up for you guys. First off, someone left out the two other military forces. The USAF has an active duty base downtown LA called LA Air Force Base. You have Edwards, Beale, Travis and Vandenburg all in Cali. The other thing is the USCG.
Each base has procedures for evacutations and for mass casualties. The command centers are manned 24/7 by highly trained troops. They aren't going to go out into any town. They'd hold up on base. The assest on base take priority of anything else.

The National Guard is in charge of disaster response, now one else.

When an emergency kicks off, you have what is called a Telephone Recall. That's what you heard at the start of the show with Mike and crew.
The call is issued from the top down. The commander calls his subordinates like Angel, Angel calls Mike, Mike calls Saul. You keep going until you have 100% accountability.
We don't know the size of the reserve unit but you can guess that most didn't make it and the others ignored the recall. You have to take into consideration the distance you have to travel to get to your unit as well. You aren't just going to be next door. You're assigned to the nearest unit and that's all. People could have lived out west or hundreds of miles away. Remember, they only have to come in One weekend a month.

By the way.. Nik.. I know there's a thread where we covered all this, but I couldn't find it either. Joint is buried somewhere.

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

By the way.. Nik.. I know there's a thread where we covered all this, but I couldn't find it either. Joint is buried somewhere.

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Similar thread, but not exactly the same. The thread you're probably thinking of is this one here: Where are the police? But the scope of the ideas is just different enough I let it slide. I realize they are both asking where are the authority figures, but its on different levels since police is local, and military/government is a much larger scale.

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

Let me clear this up for you guys. First off, someone left out the two other military forces. The USAF has an active duty base downtown LA called LA Air Force Base. You have Edwards, Beale, Travis and Vandenburg all in Cali. The other thing is the USCG.
Each base has procedures for evacutations and for mass casualties. The command centers are manned 24/7 by highly trained troops. They aren't going to go out into any town. They'd hold up on base. The assest on base take priority of anything else.

The National Guard is in charge of disaster response, now one else.

When an emergency kicks off, you have what is called a Telephone Recall. That's what you heard at the start of the show with Mike and crew.
The call is issued from the top down. The commander calls his subordinates like Angel, Angel calls Mike, Mike calls Saul. You keep going until you have 100% accountability.
We don't know the size of the reserve unit but you can guess that most didn't make it and the others ignored the recall. You have to take into consideration the distance you have to travel to get to your unit as well. You aren't just going to be next door. You're assigned to the nearest unit and that's all. People could have lived out west or hundreds of miles away. Remember, they only have to come in One weekend a month.

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Damnit you beat me to it CrwBar!

A couple things though:
Ft. Irwin would be a great "Green Zone" Because it is in the middle of nowhere. With a rapidly replicating and highly infectious epidemic you would want to have the collection point as far away from population centers as you can get. You would want to have a quarintine the infected/not-turned and speed the non-infected to a safe and secure location such as a Military Base in the middle of the desert. Long story short, The govt. will take you to the safe haven and more than likely shoot you if you are trying to get there on your own.
For something like this the National Guard (NG) would be the first responders from the Military. This would be the individual State Govenors calling up their respective forces and responding as they see fit. In the WA universe, with a rapidly spreading outbreak you can expect large casualties to these guys since they'd be responding half blind with little to no information as to the nature of the outbreak. Some units will be assuming a simple epidemic like H1N1 and respond with little to no lethal means of defense. Some units will respond with the thoughts of a riot and will be waiting in their Armories for ammo from state storage facilities (Stockpiles of Ammo and whatnot are held in hevily secured areas away from population centers and therfore away from the Armories), these units would likely be quickly overrun or suffer large groups of soldiers that "slip away" in a scenario like in WA. When my unit was deployed for security operations in LA after Katrina it took the better part of a 24 hour cycle from the first phone calls to response (in this case leaving on a plane) and we were the first out of state unit to respond to New Orleans.

After these losses of the National Guard you could expect a national State of Emergency and Martial Law to be enforced. In this step, and only after this step, the use of Active Duty Military and Regular Army (RA) would be allowed through federal law and the Posse Comitatus Act (spelling?). Here you could expect a more focused response since the Govt. and Military would have had a few days to digest exatly what is hapening, any surviving NG units or members would be federalised and placed under Federal orders and Reserve forces would be called up as well. The Military could be expected to enfore quarentine zones and establish roadblocks stopping all traffic from infected areas. Only when these areas are secured and evacuation areas are set up would you see rescue/humanitarian operations being conducted in the infected zones.

At this point in the WA Story if there is a functional Govt. or Military left they might be fortified and using the rockies as a barrier, or even further east and using the Mississsippi/Missouri river as a barrier and attempting to hold back the outbreak.

Short answer of: Where is the Govt./Military? If alive they are responding slowly and methodicaly as expected.

Leedo,

I beat you because I fly and you run to your targets! ROFL!

Now for part II of the story:

In the KCverse, we can imagine that old Arnold was at the gov's mansion getting his freak on with the help, when all of a sudden his security team burst in while he's on the back stroke.
"Sir! We have go!" Outside you hear shots fired over and over when all of a sudden one of the team turns and jumps the Terminator!
One govenor down. No call to the NG for muster. Chaos ensues then spreads. All you have is the local authorities to respond until the government corrects itself.
They

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

In the KCverse, we can imagine that old Arnold was at the gov's mansion getting his freak on with the help, when all of a sudden his security team burst in while he's on the back stroke.
"Sir! We have go!" Outside you hear shots fired over and over when all of a sudden one of the team turns and jumps the Terminator!
One govenor down. No call to the NG for muster. Chaos ensues then spreads. All you have is the local authorities to respond until the government corrects itself.
They

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That's ridiculous. The Oak would tear that zedhead in twain and say "Keep your act together" before lighting a cigar and taking out his minigun

Luna,

Did you just call my story stuuuupid? grrrrrrrrr The man was on the UP stroke remember?? LOL!

I would still think that our Govt. would be using what communications sytems that are still functional to get messages out.
If anything, the "Powers That Be" love to let the public know that any and all situations are "under control" and there is nothing to worry about.
If I remember correctly, The Tower had been monitoring t.v. transmissions. Right? Weren't cell phones working for a while too? The "developed" governments of the world have the ability to send out mass texts to the public via cell phones. I wonder why that hasn't happened. Maybe what authorities are left are too busy trying to survive. I just think that if a place like The Colony can exist then there is no reason that we can't assume that some of our government is left. Somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Tandem25

I would still think that our Govt. would be using what communications sytems that are still functional to get messages out.
If anything, the "Powers That Be" love to let the public know that any and all situations are "under control" and there is nothing to worry about.
If I remember correctly, The Tower had been monitoring t.v. transmissions. Right? Weren't cell phones working for a while too? The "developed" governments of the world have the ability to send out mass texts to the public via cell phones. I wonder why that hasn't happened. Maybe what authorities are left are too busy trying to survive. I just think that if a place like The Colony can exist then there is no reason that we can't assume that some of our government is left. Somewhere.

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If I'm remembering correctly the power went out pretty fast, like within the first day. The Govt. wouldn't respond that quickly. Also with the radios and cell phones, the towers that broadcast to them are on the same power grid as the city and when that goes so does the ability to communicate to those areas. Now lets say that there are safe places outside the infected area, those people are going to have to be broadcasting on the same frequency and on roughly the same equipment that the intended recipeints are on and using. Chances are that that won't be the case. Also the Rockies are a huge barrier that will block those signals. Maybe the Govt. could try broadcasting on Sirius and XM. But with people using mobile internet devices (iPad's Cell phones Tablets and whatnot) to keep themselves entertained on the commute to work a signal reaching them is unlikely as the source of their connectivity is usually less than a mile away and once that dies so too dies the means to communicate and get that person a message. With all our fancy toys we are alot more valnerable when they go down. Gone are the days of land-line communication. If the shit hits the fan we're pretty much back to using morse code and smoke signals.

Now the other thing to consider, During the begining of the outbreak everyone and their mother will be taxing the hell out of the system using their cellphones and whatnot. Normally the system works because one tower can handle the normal limited ammount of texts and calls compared to the larger number of cellphones in it's range. A good example of this is when everyone jumps on the phone at 12:00:01 on Dec. 31st and you get dropped calls like a mofo. Or even if you try and use your phone during a concert or sporting event (like what happened to me this weekend at a U2 concert when I tried to text a picture).

Our communications systems are fragile and when the shit hits the fan we use redundant systems in the surounding areas. An example is New Orleans during Katrina. The radio broadcasts were comming from neighboring areas and from stations that ahd backup generators. But without govt. assistance those generators aren't going to last. That's why in the KCverse there was some bits of news about the outbreak but that died out as the infection spread.

I hope I'm not comming off gloom and doom here... Civilian systems of communication are more fragile to chaos than the govt. and military systems and since most civilians aren't owners of a SINCGARS or even a PRC-77 there isn't much of a way for the govt. to get a hold of you during a crisis on the scale that KC has developed.

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Originally Posted by Leedo2502

Maybe the Govt. could try broadcasting on Sirius and XM.

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Excellent point, I'd never considered satellite radio! Another way the government might be broadcasting into occupied territory is by long range radio, either shortwave or AM, which can be heard over-the-horizon when the sun's down. I know I used to listen to AM radio from LA when I was stationed at Fort Irwin, and it came in very clearly at night. No reason that wouldn't work in the opposite direction, assuming there is a sufficiently powerful transmitter and tall tower available.

Too bad The Tower isn't monitoring shortwave, AM or satellite radio.

Don't forget that in this situation, politicians might get involved... And that just means FUBAR all the way.

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Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel

Luna,

Did you just call my story stuuuupid?

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Yes, yes I did. I thought I was quite clear :p

Not the part where the security guard jumps the Governator mind you, just the end result ;)

The way I really see this season ending is thusly.

They get to Fort Irwin.
Covered in remaining army peeps.
They get turned away for being carriers or something.

Yea I was thinkIng the same thing

Basically what will happen is that there will be no "Military" assistance other than the NG.

-If the political hierarchy is weakened, then even the NG my be delayed.
- All active duty installations will be focused on keeping order internally instead of what's on the other side of the perimeter fence.
- All military dependents will slowly make their way to an installation because their active duty members will be recalled and their dependent's safety has to be a priority or they won't be able to do their jobs

Land lines will still function as will Sat phones.

Hmmmm, Interesting theory but if it's based on Military units then who knows. I mean some units are better than others, You would see regular straight leg Infantry units called to do containment. Special Forces, I doubt you would see them. It would all depend on how fast the epidemic spread. Remember the Military in 28 Days Later? That's what I think would happen to the Military.

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Originally Posted by Bravo Team Leader

Special Forces, I doubt you would see them.

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Isn't that the point of SF in every case? ;)

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Originally Posted by Luna Guardian

Isn't that the point of SF in every case? ;)

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LOL.. you did it again man.

Anyway, I think the SF cats would be turned into Search and Destroy teams. SWAT would be turned into Zombie sniper and building clearing or they'd be the team to say where and what to stay the pluck away from.

Lets just say for the story's sake that the military was turned loose like in WWZ.... I see them doing rescue missions via helos then once they reached a reasonable number of civ casualties and infrastructure damage estimates, they'd just drop bombs on crowds of infected.
Use tactics to funnel them in to a "Kill Zone"
It'll actually be easier with infected that feel fear.

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