Chapter 35-3 The End is Near

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Originally Posted by love bump

i don't think they fortified all 16 blocks look at the pic of the colony

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/a...tachmentid=285

but then again that picture only shows one side so maybe

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Just imagine: In the beginning several hundred people lived in the Colony - according to Marcus. And also consider the size of Liberty Park. This picture - if it is a "real" depiction of the colony - may only show a part of one of the walls surrounding it. Thus this picture actually supports none and any idea about the size of The Colony. Could be 16 blocks, could be less. No idea. When Michael entered it the first time, I remember the mentioning of "one block" in size ... But Liberty Park alone has the size of one block. Maybe The Colony is more around 9 blocks - like the eight blocks surrounding Liberty Park ... I guess I better stop theorizing ... Would someone tell me, how you US-boys and -girls define "one block"? In the case of Liberty Park, would be the "one block" between Westminster Boulevard, Trask Avenue, Newland Street and Beach Boulevard - like these seem to be main roads? Or would be one block anything that is completly surrounded by any street, making "one unit of block" quite small?

*sigh*

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

There aren't any walls around the main base at Fort Irwin, just a barbed wire fence with cattle grates at the crossing points. But there are very effective choke points on every access route to the base that could be turned into giant kill zones, and enough space to conduct an effective defense in depth.

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Thanks for the always excellent input CabbagePatch, so basically your saying if they can't hold the choke points "They're fucked"

I still do not get it how fast the fortification was build. I mean, in order to build the fortification -> you need either heavy equipment or masses of people. Either way, you will attract zeehs by the inevitable noise. I simply cannot imagine the sheer lost of lives while constructing / reinforcing the colony's walls.

And if the colony spans more than just Liberty Park, I hope they did secure the intake / discharge pipes. Well, it does not matter if the behemoths start playing Bomberman within the colony.

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Originally Posted by SmokeyZombified

Thanks for the always excellent input CabbagePatch, so basically your saying if they can't hold the chock points "They're fucked"

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It really depends on what's been happening around Fort Irwin during the period since the outbreak.

Thanks to its experience in Iraq and Afghanistan the US Army has become expert at rapidly building fortifications using Texas Barriers (concrete walls assembled from pre-fabbed sections) and HESCO Barriers (pre-fabricated mesh forms that are filled with dirt, rocks, etc. to create walls). Theoretically they could have built a wall around the entire base in the time they've had, assuming the materials, the fuel and the manpower were available. We already know they had Texas Barriers around the transient barracks at Fort Irwin.

Texas Barrier


HESCO Barrier

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

Just imagine: In the beginning several hundred people lived in the Colony - according to Marcus. And also consider the size of Liberty Park. This picture - if it is a "real" depiction of the colony - may only show a part of one of the walls surrounding it. Thus this picture actually supports none and any idea about the size of The Colony. Could be 16 blocks, could be less. No idea. When Michael entered it the first time, I remember the mentioning of "one block" in size ... But Liberty Park alone has the size of one block. Maybe The Colony is more around 9 blocks - like the eight blocks surrounding Liberty Park ... I guess I better stop theorizing ... Would someone tell me, how you US-boys and -girls define "one block"? In the case of Liberty Park, would be the "one block" between Westminster Boulevard, Trask Avenue, Newland Street and Beach Boulevard - like these seem to be main roads? Or would be one block anything that is completly surrounded by any street, making "one unit of block" quite small?

*sigh*

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as i said already mate it only shows one side so maybe they did or maybe they didn't. yes it is a real description of the colony, kc would not have put it up as cover art for chapter 18 if it were not.

how big is a block this will answer it

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_big_is_one_city_block

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Originally Posted by love bump

as i said already mate it only shows one side so maybe they did or maybe they didn't. yes it is a real description of the colony, kc would not have put it up as cover art for chapter 18 if it were not.

how big is a block this will answer it

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_big_is_one_city_block

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It's cool. Didn't mean to question you. And thanks for the article.

Speaking of fortifications. Have we discussed all the traps leading up to the colony that were already in place?

I know that they were well marked, which makes me wonder if Ink/Randy were able steer the Zarmy around them, or if they just didn't care due to their large numbers.



-Happy turkey day!

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Originally Posted by Chadzero

Speaking of fortifications. Have we discussed all the traps leading up to the colony that were already in place?

I know that they were well marked, which makes me wonder if Ink/Randy were able steer the Zarmy around them, or if they just didn't care due to their large numbers.



-Happy turkey day!

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I wonder if they were still in place. It could be that several were used/destroyed over time with the Mallers taking over and maybe they weren't too keen on keeping them up. The Mallers seemed pretty intent on watching the people inside the walls as much as outside the walls.

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

S..t just got real, y'all. Redshirt is back.

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...but only just...

Turns out I'm moving after all, but under different and slightly better circumstances.

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Been reading this thread here off and on since it started and there's a bit of commentary I want to through out there, things that I didn't comment on right away.

Artillery:
1) At Irwin, they would not have been training with live fire, their training would have only been maneuvering in combat. Therefore, there would have been no ammo for them.
2) Artillery is useless against Zombies. Three words: Battle of Yonkers. Weather they are Romero, modern, R.E. or KC zombies, arty is useless against actively mobile individuals. It is meant for large static targets: bunkers, buildings, ect

Bradleys and reactive armor:
1) It is likely the zed heads are getting in through the crew hatch on top. It is usually used for reloading the missile tubes and is rather large. Probably the easiest to pry open.
2) Bradley armor is mostly aluminum and ranges from 1-3 inches thick in most places and 4-6 inches cumulative equivalent in a few others.
2) Reactive armor is optional for Bradleys, rather dangerous and would not have been available for training purposes, much like the artillery.

Zombie Farts:
Methane is colorless and orderless, Hydrogen Sulfide is what makes flatus stinky.

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Originally Posted by Deacon_Tyler

The one aspect of this that is bothering me is the overuse of conventional weaponry as opposed to improvised techniques that would be far more effective. Such as mixing bleach and ammonia to create poisonous gas

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Conventional weaponry is conventional because it WORKS. Alternate and improvised methods are not more effective as you assert, they tend to be unpredictable, inconsistent and generally sloppy. Your example, mixing bleach and ammonia releases chlorine gas. Chlorine is an "industrial gas" and elemental as well. As it turns out, industrial and elemental gases are NOT filtered by the M40 ProMask, the gas mask that would be in use by the personnel at Irwin.

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

A military aircraft from Deus ex Machina-stan will fly over to investigate the results of a fail-safe nuclear device. Season 4 will involve a trek to this or another safe zone that was kept in secret by Col. Kimmet. :tinfoil:

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My thoughts too. Return to PanTex? NM Tech? NORAD finally peeks out of their hole and we decide to go there?

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Originally Posted by Red Shirt

...but only just...

Turns out I'm moving after all, but under different and slightly better circumstances.

**

Been reading this thread here off and on since it started and there's a bit of commentary I want to through out there, things that I didn't comment on right away.

Artillery:
1) At Irwin, they would not have been training with live fire, their training would have only been maneuvering in combat. Therefore, there would have been no ammo for them.
2) Artillery is useless against Zombies. Three words: Battle of Yonkers. Weather they are Romero, modern, R.E. or KC zombies, arty is useless against actively mobile individuals. It is meant for large static targets: bunkers, buildings, ect

Bradleys and reactive armor:
1) It is likely the zed heads are getting in through the crew hatch on top. It is usually used for reloading the missile tubes and is rather large. Probably the easiest to pry open.
2) Bradley armor is mostly aluminum and ranges from 1-3 inches thick in most places and 4-6 inches cumulative equivalent in a few others.
2) Reactive armor is optional for Bradleys, rather dangerous and would not have been available for training purposes, much like the artillery.

Zombie Farts:
Methane is colorless and orderless, Hydrogen Sulfide is what makes flatus stinky.



Conventional weaponry is conventional because it WORKS. Alternate and improvised methods are not more effective as you assert, they tend to be unpredictable, inconsistent and generally sloppy. Your example, mixing bleach and ammonia releases chlorine gas. Chlorine is an "industrial gas" and elemental as well. As it turns out, industrial and elemental gases are NOT filtered by the M40 ProMask, the gas mask that would be in use by the personnel at Irwin.




My thoughts too. Return to PanTex? NM Tech? NORAD finally peeks out of their hole and we decide to go there?

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Apparently conventional weaponry didn't work too well at Irwin OR Boulder ;)

...hence the unconventional suggestion

Due to the fact that all conventional weaponry has failed so far, I guess that will witness some rather suicidal attempts to throw back the zeehs at Ft. Irwin in the next episode. What will they do with CODI, anyone?

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Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheek

Due to the fact that all conventional weaponry has failed so far, I guess that will witness some rather suicidal attempts to throw back the zeehs at Ft. Irwin in the next episode. What will they do with CODI, anyone?

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I think CODI ( or KODI?) will take a helicopter flight to the colony. The big weapon to be used at Fort Irwin is the nuke. The Kimmet Kaboom special.....

Oh, thanks, it is indeed KODI, I guess.

Took vacation for damn near the length of time between these episode, yeaaaa buddy, now to read all the posts I missed and propogate tremendous things that have absolutely no chance of happening only to find out Kc wrote things I never would've expected and thought had no possible chance of happening in 2 days!

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Originally Posted by 7oddisdead

no worries...its been "no shave November" for me since August. And I don't think KC will betray the beard clan like that.

Also: see the follow up comments to that...my beard will not die easy

Or alone;)

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Or cheap....where is this fundraiser? I leave for 2 weeks or so and no one gets an upstart...pssssh

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Originally Posted by Hoff4D

Took vacation for damn near the length of time between these episode, yeaaaa buddy, now to read all the posts I missed and propogate tremendous things that have absolutely no chance of happening only to find out Kc wrote things I never would've expected and thought had no possible chance of happening in 2 days!

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Welcome back, Hoff4D.

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Originally Posted by Hoff4D

Took vacation for damn near the length of time between these episode, yeaaaa buddy, now to read all the posts I missed and propogate tremendous things that have absolutely no chance of happening only to find out Kc wrote things I never would've expected and thought had no possible chance of happening in 2 days!

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Good to have you back!

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Originally Posted by Hoff4D

Took vacation for damn near the length of time between these episode, yeaaaa buddy, now to read all the posts I missed and propogate tremendous things that have absolutely no chance of happening only to find out Kc wrote things I never would've expected and thought had no possible chance of happening in 2 days!

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haha, thats why I stopped posting, I just gave up, :mad:.

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Originally Posted by SmokeyZombified

Did I miss something? Whats all this Lizzy is driving the SWAT van stuff? How does this even register as a logical theory? Why would Lizzy just up and randomly jump into the SWAT van and drive away leaving all of her loved ones (Who she was just reunited with) behind? This theory is poop and it hurts my brain whenever I read it. So please for the sake of my poor brain, stop with the silly nonsense!! Either that or this is just an inside joke that I am on the outside of...

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This is an open-minded community, all theories are created equally. That said, they are assumptions until proven wrong, so when something gains steam, regardless of plausability, it's acknowledged in further theories....go back to the time we didnt know Kalani was the rat episode discussions and I think you'll pick up what I'm laying down. If you refute a theory, refute it in a reply, but don't expect it to go away completely ever. I mean this as nicely as possible, but just keep on reading past the crackpot stuff if it bugs you

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

OK, some questions that need answers.

The turner at Check Point #2.

• Started turning while at the check point.
• How long was it since his exposure? A lady says that 'the zombies' are just over the hill so he could have been recently exposed OR he could be some what of a 'slow turner?
• Tanya says it's the second time this has happened. Is there a trend of slower turning? We have some idea of how long it takes people exposed to Inkling #2 to turn. It seems Roman may have turned at a similar rate, as Glenn nor Pete mention anything about the duration being different.
• Turners in the convoy could be either hitchhiking zombies or slow turners.
• Keep in mind, Boulder was overrun quickly.

Randy

• Pete mentions that he is wearing a brownish shirt. Sean calls him a 'techie' when he sends him to the water pumping station. "Brown" collar jobs are considered paraprofessional positions in the USA. Did he work at the station?
• Mentioned by someone that he is at the pumping station when we first encounter a Behemoth. Any connections?
• Has a mark on his head. Lighting bolt like Harry Potter? White hand print like the Uruk Hai? Scratch marked him some time and place?
• Ally, Adversary or Aggregate of Ink?

Uh Oh!

• Anyone pick up Bixby's or Gatekeeper's comm devices?
• Did the SWAT van have maps to Dunbar?
• Were all of CJ's blindfolds red?
• Will Cj's katana be used to amputate her leg? If so, did she ever clean it after slicing zombies?
• Where the heck is Pete?

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Mark on Randy = Harry Potter lightning bolt equivalent from when Ink first battled Randy and Michael's love for him protected him from dying, but couldn't stop the turning process. Michael ended with a broken arm, Randy a Z-virus.....This is why Randy is a good zombie, and is merely seeking Michael to ask him why he saved him. They both ride off into the sunset upon their united effort against Ink to come.....

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

In the army these things are called anti-tank ditches, they would be an excellent addition to the defense of the base, and soldiers at Fort Irwin should have been masters at emplacing them. Here's a cross-section view of a common design

The design of the anti-tank ditch works exactly like a moat, putting a wide barrier in front of an enemy that is hard for them to cross, stops their forward momentum, and causes them to bunch up, making it easier to kill them. A couple of design refinements include the shear face on the far side of the ditch, usually topped with barbed wire, intended to make it hard for normal humans to climb up. The base of the ditch can be mined, and makes an excellent kill zone for hand grenades dropped from above or mortar fire. And it's SOP to site machineguns so that they can fire down the length of the trench.

When I was at Fort Irwin every training unit would have to construct anti-tank ditches, sometimes miles of them, in support of their operations. There were warehouses full of reinforcing and barrier materials on hand to support this work. When they finished their missions we made them fill them all back in again and turn in the supplies.

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So has Kc put you on the payroll for added research on any of his projects going forward, or are you still up for bidding? lol. btw-REP

Annnnnnnnnd, that's it for spamming this thread before the next episode. Thanks for the welcome backs guys!

Cannot wait for wednesday!

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Originally Posted by Hoff4D

Or cheap....where is this fundraiser? I leave for 2 weeks or so and no one gets an upstart...pssssh

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the loss of my beard would cause a certain Portland nurse to start hunting....people. Let it go brother ;)

So after a long overdue relisten of season 3 I discovered several interesting things. Ft irwin has texas barriers as walls around it. An infantry training was suppossed to happen when shtf. And the la map from "short term memory" is in ft irwin. And pinstripes was either very lucky in placing himself near where saul, vic, and cj had been for the past week or he has been watching them for quite some time now.

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Originally Posted by Th3_T3ch

So after a long overdue relisten of season 3 I discovered several interesting things. Ft irwin has texas barriers as walls around it. An infantry training was suppossed to happen when shtf. And the la map from "short term memory" is in ft irwin. And pinstripes was either very lucky in placing himself near where saul, vic, and cj had been for the past week or he has been watching them for quite some time now.

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Pinstripes is either an adrenaline junkie or an pathological psycho-/sociopath - or both: Bill Roberts. Just remember his solo mission to the tower.

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Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheek

Pinstripes is either an adrenaline junkie or an pathological psycho-/sociopath - or both: Bill Roberts. Just remember his solo mission to the tower.

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PinStripes also entered into CJ's tower solo at first. It appears that it likes to do things solo and will call the horde if needed.

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Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheek

Pinstripes is either an adrenaline junkie or an pathological psycho-/sociopath - or both: Bill Roberts. Just remember his solo mission to the tower.

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Pinstripes has been spotted solo twice that we know of, right? Our Tower and Cain Hospital.

We don't have "definitive" proof that he was at Dunbar - just Saul saying that the security cam still CJ had was him. We don't have "definitive" proof that pinstripes was on the roof commanding the Zeds in The War. We don't have "definitive" proof that pinstripes was in the arena (biut someone that looked like him at least was per Kalani).

I'm still holding on to the the theory that we have more than one Zed that is getting lumped into the Ink/Pinstripes/TOWTM identity.... There's something important in there. I'm sure of it. :tinfoil:

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Originally Posted by scbubba

I'm still holding on to the the theory that we have more than one Zed that is getting lumped into the Ink/Pinstripes/TOWTM identity.... There's something important in there. I'm sure of it. :tinfoil:

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I think that is a verry interesting point of view. I get the feeling however that if there are that our convict from the mental ward is probably in charge. The choice to tatto the little ones, in my humble oppinion, points toward that.

Cabbage Patch is the man - the anti tank ditches are money and I was a little shocked that there was no mention of this. That's exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned moats - they work and there was enough time and manpower to build them and throw nasty shit in there like barbed wire, broken glass, etc.

Hell, maybe they DID have them and the zombies were all getting through the checkpoints (which for all we know could have been like bridges), but in that case, unconventional methods such as fire or caustic chemicals should have been employed. While Irwin didn't know about the special zombies, regardless I would assume that bullets and artillery would have been considered a limited commodity and alternate methods of holding back even standard zombies would have been employed.

Everyone blames Kimmet in this regard, but frankly I don't see that he's that bad of a guy. He was right about nuking Boulder and he was right about not letting people through without proper screening.

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Originally Posted by 7oddisdead

the loss of my beard would cause a certain Portland nurse to start hunting....people. Let it go brother ;)

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A reply like that with no further information? I think we need a script written up about a rampaging portland nurse hunting people over the loss of a beard.....

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Originally Posted by Hoff4D

A reply like that with no further information? I think we need a script written up about a rampaging portland nurse hunting people over the loss of a beard.....

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Originally Posted by scbubba

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Well, personally, it sounds like a Portland nurse tell's 7odd what to do....:D