ummm.....what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cemetery Man
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ummm.....what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cemetery Man
Listen to the early chapters, Rick appears in many of them
I don't think I'd go as far as to call Rick Barboza the mole, but there is definitely something fishy about that character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cemetery Man
(;Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombiphobe
When bad jokes start popping up in what could arguably be called the most serious, heated theory discussion thread on the site...its time for the show to come back...:)
While listening through all the episodes again, I am pretty sure the rat is Kalani. Everything is a little fishy around him and I'm sure when the next season begins and we get to read his journal we will find out everything. After Kalani was taken back to the base, Michael assigned him to guard duty the very next night. Kalani had a whole day to observe conditions and then he was left alone in the guard room to watch the base and talk to the mallers. The next night is when the attack happened and Kalani wasn't fighting, he was upstairs and never made an appearance during the battle.
Skittles has to know the mallers since he is scared of people because he thinks people are the "bad people" but then he recognized Angel and knew Angel was nice and gave him socks. When they were at the base getting the MREs Kalani and Angel hid in the water tower with Skittles. Skittles said he remembered Angel and then he said he remembered Kalani too. Angel quickly said that he must be thinking about Datu and not Kalani but Skittles was pretty positive that he recognized Kalani. Most likely because when Skittles first saw Kalani he was with the mallers. Kalani remained silent the whole time.
Kalani seems to have abandoned his traitorious ways when he gets to know the group at the tower and he helps them out and works with them and becomes friends with them, especially Angel. Then Pippen comes into the mix. Pippen probably really was a prisoner of the mallers or he could have been a maller himself. Either way, Pippen would recognize Kalani so Kalani never showed his face around Pippen. Kalani and Datu were going to go help out Burt and Saul but before they left, Kalani went and talked to Michael to let him know. Not more than a minute after he left the room, the alarm went off and Pippen was shot. Datu claims Kalani was with him the entire time and that they left before it happened but my theory is that Datu was getting the car started and Kalani told Datu that he was gonna say bye to Michael or something and he let Datu get the car ready. Datu was in the carport so couldn't hear the alarm perhaps and then Kalani came down and they took off and Datu didn't know that anything had happened until a few minutes later when the nest radioed them and asked them where they were. Datu probably assumed it had barely happened and so he said that Kalani was with him the entire time.
Kalani and Datu met Burt and Saul and Datu tells Burt and Saul everything that happened and Kalani said nothing. Then Burt and Saul said they think they should go back but Kalani then tries to get their minds off it by saying "I'm sure you can do all the probing you want when we get back, the fact is we're here and have a job to do. They have the person they think did it."
All signs point to Kalani for me. I can't wait for this next season to start so we can find out the truth.
are you so sure that the truth will be revealed?
I agree, it was Kalani Kelly AND Tommy; The first person Kalani talked to when he got to the tower was Kelly, When the mallers attacked the tower when they had the party Tommy was on guard duty. Also Kelly happened to "fall asleep" when she was on guard duty the first time latch and scratch entered the tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Daddy
I bet Kelly set the radio tooQuote:
Originally Posted by nrtv20
This is my theory about who the rat is.
Kalani is the rat of "a" tower. I think people forget that there was another tower. Although, I don't believe he is a Maller. I believe Kalani's story of escaping Hawaii is true but instead of finding the other tower the Mallers found him and the other survivors of the plane crash, including Hanna. LAX is close to the mall and probably part of Maller territory. He was probably forced to spy on the other tower or they would kill Hanna. Who would suspect a big Hawaiian dude of working for criminals. He was there to assess the towers strength and to look for weaknesses for an eventual takeover by the Mallers. Before he could report back the zombies attacked and he was captured and taken to the arena. He was probably given an ultimatum, like if he didn't report back within a cretin time period she would be killed.
I also don't believe he was playing dead at the arena. He probably thought Hanna was dead because of him and gave up like Samantha did. I also don't think he was a brown noser, he was just overcompensating because of his betrayal at the first tower. There were also a number of times he was willing to die or risk his life for the tower, or at least the main cast.
This is probably what he wrote in the journal in Bill's desk. I think the reason he didn't tell anyone in the tower is because they have some crazy rules. Seriously, are you going to tell people you were a spy when one of the rules is if you fall asleep you get kicked out. I believe Kalani has a death wish. He knew he was going to die somehow and he wrote his confession in the journal.
The plant in the We're Alive tower I believe is Steven. I don't really have much proof other than he didn't want to be in a room with Pippen. Oh Pippen. Why couldn't he have chosen a different spy name like Joe or Smith or something. The first spy wouldn't need to recognize Pippen by appearance, just by name. Anyway, the WA plant was probably not a Maller too. I think when the Mallers had the WA tower surrounded he took his chance to take revenge on Durai or the Mallers in general knowing that an attack would kill just as many Mallers than tower people.
Going through the Maller war again, Kalani as a spy for the second tower makes sense. The plant at the WA tower defected and stopped contacting the Mallers. Why didn't the Mallers attack the WA tower while the trained soldiers were away? They left Paul and Pegs on guard with one gun. Pegs might as well as made a sign that said "take us over now" It must have take a couple of hours to find a route to the stadium. Come on, Bill enough time to steal the food and ammo.
Everyone gets back and they accidentally stop the zombie attack. Kalani had plenty of time to contact the Mallers to see if Hannah were still alive. Durai or Scratch threatens to kill Hannah again and Kalani spills the beans on the party and the ammo situation. The WA tower spy (who i think is Steven) sees Durai takes a shot at him, and the war starts.
I really don't think Steven was the Tower spy/rat. We really didn't hear of him until after the war when the mystery of "Who's the Rat" came up. If we were expected to try and figure out who the rat could be, then it should be someone we had already been introduced to.
Also, I would assume he came in with the group of "New Arrivals" in Chapter 3, since I don't recall any other influx of unnamed survivors. In that episode Michael narrates that the only people worth noting were Kelly and Tommy. If the Rat had been a part of that group, I'm sure his/her name would have been worth noting.
I think people are leaping to conclusions that Hannah is being held by the Mallers. I remind you all we know next to NOTHING about her. Just that she is a girl of some importance to Kalani. He either mentioned her vaguely or had a picture of her in his journal that he willed to Angel and felt she was significant for Angel to know about. For all we know it could be that Kalani just wanted Angel to know about her so Hannah's memory could stay alive. We don't know if she is two or twenty or forty. We don't know if she was the red head on the golf course or not. (I don't believe she was the red head myself). Only KC, Kevin Flood and maybe Shane know who this Hannah girl is, we just know it was someone important to Kalani because he said "my Hannah"
The reason I say all this is because I don't believe Kalani is the rat. Clearly he could not have been a Maller in disguise or coerced before arriving at the Tower, because there is no way in hell anyone could guess he would make it there. As for spying on the "Other Tower", we have no evidence that the Mallers knew about it while it was still operational. They might know about the site now, with having explored further and then they would just have to clean up some bloodstains. As for shooting Pippin and then running really fast to the garage to leave with Datu, I mean come on people. Watch an episode of the Biggest Loser, Kalani is massive, he can't move that fast, not without coughing up a lung. Even Datu would have been suspicious if Kalani came to the car gasping and shortly afterwards he hears someone shot the Brit. Heck in Chapter 17 Angel was a little winded, but Kalani was about to die when the Behemoth had them cornered. In chapter 7 Saul jokes about Angel being out of shape, so clearly Kalani is far worse. As Nikvoodoo has stated, Kalani physically could not have shot Pippin and then escape without notice.
In conclusion Kalani is innocent and he died a damn hero. Let him rest in peace.
I believe the rat was some who became disgruntled by the lack of food and ammo and possibly the irresponsible decision for a party. While I want it to be Kelly, I analyzed it from a story perspective and thus decided it is probably Riley. She doesn't reveal much about herself and spends most of her time supporting others. I just think it would be an awesome dramatic moment for Angel to learn Riley is the Rat. Shane has does some amazing really emotional scenes with Angel. I would love to hear him react to the woman he cares about most in this apocalyptic world revealed to be a traitor. I don't know if Angel would get all emotional and just feel betrayed, get angry or go into denial and try to defend her from Michael. Ooh, the thought of it gives me goosebumps
Just a thought... I think Steven may be the rat.... I agree with most that Pippin was planted at the tower on purpose. I do not think he is the rat, but find that he is not being candid about his history with the mallers. To be so close to Scratch- considering she says they still have to drop him off- I find it hard to believe he was not privy to some if not all information in regards to what Scratch is up to- even if he was not the intended audience of such discussions. I do not think Pippin realizes that Scratch is using him as bait and to prove a point to the inhabitants of the tower-- big brother is watching:Bill is not the rat(1984 rocks!). I point to Steven bc I find it odd that he's so insistent on not watching Pippin when asked, like he is trying to avoid any extended period of time with him where both would be forced to interact. I also find it strange that he was so insistent in making Lizzie leave the Tower in past chapter. If Steven is the rat, he would be helping Scratch get to Lizzie easier if she were on her own and helpless for the most part. I think when Pippin says 'you?!?' prior to being killed, he recognizes steven from having recently meeting him earlier with the rest of then gang, has just put two and two together- having some knowledge of Scratch's plan realized. I do not believe Pippin is aware of who Scratch has on the inside.... Until that point.
My other theory is that the rat is in the tower, but not known to the inhabitants of the tower... Why should we assume that we have even been introduced to the mole? The stuff found in Bill's apartment could've been planted for all we know. Burt found everything after Bill died, and nothing else proves otherwise that Bill actually took all that stuff. This is another set up by Scratch and her crew to temporarily immobilize the tenants- no ammo no food-- no hope-- enough time to attack the tower with little resistance from the tenants. The rat would know of the relationship between the tenants and Bill- who better to blame stuff on- especially after he is out of the picture.
Lastly--Lizzie was feeling sick prior to the potential rape scene- something to think about if she were poisoned on purpose prior to finally leaving the Tower by the rat. I also thought perhaps she was preggers too and what drives Saul's irrationality is he knows she is too. He's not just hunting for her if indeed she is preggers, he searches for his unborn child as well. Either is plausible.
Just my thoughts
--signed
Eboogey
TOOWINPIIC!
In regards to your Pippin theory: We do know why Pippin was there in the Tower. It was revealed in Chapter 24 during the assault on the Tower when there's the cut scene with Scratch, Bricks, Tardust, and Lizzy what his role was. It was to tell Scratch if Pegs was in the Tower. He was beaten up to sell escape from the Mallers story to the Tower.
As for the "you" that could apply to anyone he has met in the Tower. It could have even been Pegs (whom he had not met). He'd know who he was searching for from a description and when she appears "You" could mean "Oh! There's the person I was looking for" and then he sees the gun at the side. Blam!
The reason we should assume we've met everyone that could possibly be the mole is because everyone else in the Tower is dead (presumably). They were either mowed down by zombies as they tried to escape, and whomever didn't make it to the motor pool would have been (again presumably) crushed by the building collapse. It's obviously hard to take Michael at his word that everyone died in the collapse since he's not there anymore to survey the wreckage, but the reason we didn't meet any of them who were important is because they weren't important. Remember what Michael says in chapter 3...the only people of consequence were Kelly and Tommy. He didn't mention Stephen as a person of great import and they had no new arrivals beyond that day.
Besides all that, I believe the rat has to be one of the 10 main characters (Michael, Saul, Angel, Lizzy, Riley, Pegs, Datu, Kelly, Kalani or Burt). Otherwise what's the point? What is the impact of having a heel turn on someone you don't know?
Well it had to be someone that survived and was the person that was going up in the latter that was with pipin and had to be someone that everybody trusted angel or another person that is alive
Pegs.
I think Nikvoodoo was referring to Kalani's ability to run up to Bill's apartment on the top floor after shooting Pippin to stash the silenced pistol. We do not know for sure that this was the case as we weren't told the exact contents of Bill's desk. Taking that out of the equation, I definitely feel Kalani is physically capable of shooting Pippin and escaping without notice, based on the following timeline:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikepaw
1. Datu heads down to the Parking Garage to get the car ready while Kalani goes to to tell Michael (on the 5th floor) that they are leaving.
2. Kalani then goes down to the 4th floor and cuts the wire in the hall before ducking into a neighboring apartment.
3. Angel leaves the Guard Room and heads up to the 5th floor Armory.
4. Kalani slips in and shoots Pippin and takes out the radio/communications.
5. Kalani heads down to the Parking Garage and leaves with Datu.
6. Kalani checks in with Burt over the radio and "learns" that communication with the Tower is out, giving the impression that they were en route at the time of the shooting.
In this scenario, Kalani never has to climb any stairs, he is only descending. He also would have had to descend the same number of stairs whether or not he stopped to shoot Pippin, because we know he talked to Michael before he left. So he should be in a comparable physical state when he gets to the Parking Garage.
i believe kalani is the rat. my theory is kalani and his group from Hawaii are over run after landing. the maulers come to the rescue and holds Hannah (someone kalani cares about) hostage and tells kalani to be a rat at the tower in exchange for Hannah's life and the second tower was a place the mulers could put people so when kalani kill pipin(not confirmed) Hannah is shot at the golf course ending there agreement.
My trouble with Kalani somehow knowing that the redhead was Hannah (aside from having to come to the forums to understand what he was saying) is:Quote:
Originally Posted by mageftw
a) for some reason he has to assume there's only one redhead left between the mallers (it might be the case, I don't know how rare is this fenotype in California or Hawaii)
b) more importantly, we don't witness at all the hypothetical exchange taking place on the helicopter where he learns about it . I mean, if this is the case, this particular scene is too important to just happen in the background. I'm not saying he should gasp or weep or something obvious, but simply that the dialogue should be in the episode in some way, if Hannah was the redhead killed.
I don't know if anyone thought of that before, but I think the Rats (yes, plural) are Kelly and Tommy. That might be the reason why Kelly didn't want his camera idea to be approved (i figure he didn't want to be the rat anymore when he saw how cool the tower folk was, amirite? or he just was so frikkin' smart that he made the surveillance cameras thus not a single person would think hes the rat :O), I also believe Kelly had a change of heart when Tommy turned and everyone hesitated to shoot (can't remember if thats true or not), or given that Kelly is the rat and she was throwing the idea of taking a day off to make a window of opportunity for the attack and when Tommy turned, her heart turned as well (pretty much the same thing, but different motivator - guilt and realization). I also seem to remember scratch said something about "her" when dropping off Pippin (don't know if it was about Lizzy or the rat) if that was about the rat, it would mean that mallers dropped pippin off either to have two rats at all times, or to eliminate Kelly and take her place.
Oh, and before the attack tommy was the only person in the guard room, thus granting him +1 to his Rat ability.
Anyway, this whole theory sounded much much better in my head though it still looks plausible enough to me.
If you have something to add, please do :)
I'm going to leave Kelly out of this rebuttal because there's still too much evidence against her that I don't feel like arguing about.
But as for Tommy....I think you're off base. 1) because I think the rat needs to be alive for there to be an impact to the story. and 2) Tommy was in the guard room like you said. and if he was the rat, he could have disabled all the alarm systems and let the Mallers come right in. So....yeah. I think he was pretty well innocent of any chicanery.
Hmmm, i probably need another re-listening session and to read these looooong 30 pages to set everything straight, but I will try to support my theory :) I think Kc would make the rat thing really complicated (i mean Kelly knows how to set a strong alibi) and 1) Kelly (who i assume to be the rat) is still alive 2) if he disabled all the alarms that would be like saying, hey guys, I'm the rat.
Though thanks for the expert opinion, you made me see little more details :)
One thing that still gets me about The War and the Rat is that the Rat contacted the Mallers before the party and if it wasn't Tommy. Who had a shift before Tommy and knew about the party before it was going to happen? Pegs. Maybe that's why Pegs was pushing a party so hard, because she had already discussed with the Mallers about it and they were coming on that day.
but that would mean that the mallers were all ready coming on that day. i think they were waiting for the rat to say "today come by for some fun." it be easier to be ready and wait for the rat. then tell the rat to have the tower ready for them on a day that they set before hand.
I'm thinking it was more like Pegs told the Mallers when to come over not the other way around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Test subject 9
Thats exactly what he said ;D "mallers were all ready" not already :P but what makes you think pegs was the rat? I think she is just... not a person of logic ;D
Well, Only Pegs knew about the party before it was going to happen and if we're all assuming that that rat and the killer are the same person then Pegs was at a perfect spot to do that too. She wasn't mentioned either. Also, when she killed Latch to protect Michael I think that she was not planning on The War, just the Mallers being in charge of the Tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilsas
Although I think the reason she had those Nightmares where that she lost someone important, maybe her Father or her Brother or someone and their body was never found. Maybe in a war or just street crime.
Because she might not have wanted to risk it, and her loyalty is with the Tower Folk and always has been, maybe she thought it was better to be safer for everyone in a larger group even if the Mallers were in charge. She wasn't sure if the Latch and Scratch would kill Michael, Maybe she had been talking with Durai.Quote:
Originally Posted by Test subject 9
This has been troubling me and I haven't found anyone talking about it. when do you think the rat started talking to the mallers, And was it only once like most the story seems to show. Becaue this would show a lot about why they may have done it. Once could have been a person trying to release some stress they had about how the tower was being run. But if was more then once then they would have had a deep connections to the mallers which could bring more conflicts with in the group that they are now in.
If it was a slow systematic betrayal then this person thought the Mallers had something to offer. Something that wasn't provided by the Tower (numbers maybe?). If it was immediate, then it was probably a reaction to Pinstripes infiltrating the Tower and nearly killing everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Test subject 9
I think either way spells badness for the Survivors of the Tower. After all, if the Rat has truly switched sides and is aligned with the Tower.....they still murdered Pippin to protect their own ass after their realignment. You've seen how far they are willing to go...
...What stops them from murdering a main character who finds out?
Not a thing. And that should put the fear of God in to you.