Chapter 24 discussion- "The Harder They Fall"

"wow!" on the podcast, and I just want to add this to all the "red shirt" stuff going on...

I made all of my guys wear red shirts at work on Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

I'm curious to know who this other hostage was that Scratch referred to when she told Angel, "We'll give them both back to you." I'm thinking it could be someone they've had for a long time now forcing someone within the tower to be the rat. Could be Kalani's Hannah, or I dunno, Kelly's sister? Maybe it was that gall that got blasted on the golf course. At least this clears up that famous conversation between Tardust and Scratch back at the furniture store. When Tardust was asked, "What about the other one?" Scratch replies, "We still have her." Her, Hannah maybe?

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Lizzie is pregnant. Hence the reference to "two" and "her" (and her throwing up).

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

So Angel finding Kalani's journal is kind of a big deal in that I thought everyone had turned in thier journals to Tanya. Why was he hiding his? Or was this a "true" journal in that he kept a false one and a real one should he ever wish to clear his conscience? But I'm not completely convinced that Kalani could have been the mole. If the mole and the Pippin shooter are indeed the same person, then it seems like it would have been next to impossible for Kalani to shoot Pippin.

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My theory is that the item found in Kalani's desk is a proof of life photo of Kalani's daughter with Scratch holding a gun to her head. Angel would not be surprised to find just a normal picture or journal. It needs to be something that as soon as he saw it would make him say WTH. Some have theorized that this girl was the girl killed at the golf course and thus removed Kalani's attachment to the Mallers. Basically, he was the (one of the) mole because Scratch was blackmailing him. Maybe not but it's a theory...

Hello ev'body.
I have found a place that helps with withdrawals between episodes...and now can help between seasons.
www.talesofthezomiewar.com
It's a whole s-ton of short (some pretty long) zombie stories.
Some are not so good, others are freakin' awesome.

I liked this season for the most part. I feel like the zombies sometimes became a non-issue.
If there was a fire fight going on you would think the zombies would be all over the place, attracted by all the noise.
Sprinting zombies are never a non-issue.
....especially in numbers.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Burt was referencing the Killer of Pippin (24 ~33:50-34:10 mark) and that maybe he was looking at the killer right now instead of Lewis who was locked up below. Michael says "No there's no way. Angel was with me when it happened. Right, Angel?" and Angel replies "Exactly."

As we've had time trial discussions trying to figure out who was available to murder Pippin (who did and did not have enough time to pull the trigger), I found it interesting that despite knowing there's 12-15 seconds Angel is unaccounted for Michael claims they were in the same location.

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Well, I think he's just assuming that Pippin wasn't killed that quickly. His mind deleted that 12-15 seconds that it took them both to run into each other. The Pippin assassination timeline remains the same for us because we heard it take place, but in Michaels head it might be a bit construed, which would make for some hardcore suprise on his part if he learned that Angel was the shooter. Honestly though, I don't think it was intentional on Michaels part.

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Originally Posted by Kc

You'll know soon enough, I promise. Pieces of the info is there, you just don't have the pieces to connect the dots...

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You are one Brilliant Evil Man. I salute you.

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Originally Posted by Laura

Head... spinning... wow. I just can't believe all this!

Has anyone besides me noticed that the zombies were almost entirely a non-appearance and non-issue in this one? Don't get me wrong, I HATE those guys (don't we all?), but I just found it interesting. Our peeps from the tower were originally worried about the zombies, but now it seems the greater and more immediate danger is the Mallers.

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I found it interesting that we could hear their calls at specific times throughout the episode but they didn't appear... but they are still around and I fear they are planning something... Don't discount them. they shall be back with a vengeance.

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Originally Posted by Hollomandious

And i believe Kalani was told what happened at the Golf Course. How could you not inform the driver at least partially what happened. He then assumes it was her, and crashes the jet like a rock star.

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I can believe all that too, but still having such a key passage happen in the background without mentioning it at all doesn't sound KC-y to me.
Showels to you too, I guess :)

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Originally Posted by Magrat

I found it interesting that we could hear their calls at specific times throughout the episode but they didn't appear... but they are still around and I fear they are planning something... Don't discount them. they shall be back with a vengeance.

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Didn't the Zombies overwhelm the people trying to drive away?

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Originally Posted by Adogg

Didn't the Zombies overwhelm the people trying to drive away?

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Correct.

Nice episode as always, looking forward to Season 3.

Scratch was definitely looking for a person at the end of the episode. Not an object.

My reasoning: She says, "Keep looking" right before Bricks calls her over to look at the man's body. When she tells Bricks to put him with the old man, that's when she says she found what she was looking for.

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

If you want to place blame, you could say that Saul's idea caused the death of nearly every tower member!

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Although, to defend Saul, I think Scratch would have found a way to get the Tower eventually. She is conniving and resourceful. If Saul hadn't done what he did, it still could have gone down. But I do think Saul did rush into it and could have done better. It did cause huge damage and death, and that sucks. Saul did not have to go about it how he did, and he did mess up. But not entirely his fault, just partly his fault.

Woot! Lizzy is gonna have a baby! If she is alive, of course. The throwing up makes sense now.

While It is necessary for birth to occur, I'm Just worried of what could be the fate of a child in The We're alive universe which usually doesn't go well. :\

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Originally Posted by VeritableHero

Scratch was definitely looking for a person at the end of the episode. Not an object.

My reasoning: She says, "Keep looking" right before Bricks calls her over to look at the man's body. When she tells Bricks to put him with the old man, that's when she says she found what she was looking for.

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I don't know... the way the comment was worded still bothers me. She sees the man, whether Angel or someone else, and then she says "Put him in with the old man... I found what I was looking for." That pause between the sentences is what bothers me. Wouldn't she have phrased it differently? Wouldn't she have said something like, "There it is (or "There he is"), there's what I was looking for.." or something along those lines? To me, the way she phrased it sounds almost like an afterthought. Almost like she was saying, "Might as well take him along.. I already found what I was looking for." In that case, what she was looking for and the person they found would be unrelated. Just a thought.

By the way Britt, thanks for quoting me in your podcast. It was fun hearing my own quote read back to me.. :))

Absolutely brilliant!

Was away and had to wait over a week to listen to the finale, it was killing me! Made it all the sweeter though.

I'm thinking that Kalani the rat situation isn't going to be as cut and dry as "Kalai's the rat because his diary tells me so". What kind of under cover mole keeps a diary of being an under cover mole? If anything it will either be a confession or in some way coded.

Side note, though, in chapter 17 "There might be others" Part 3 (around 9.20) Skittles says he recognise's Kalani, right after saying he ran away from Angel and Kalani at the base because he thought they were the bad people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9_h8XwP4Wg


If Burt ever dies

Has any one noted that on the Character profiles Burt is listed as unknown, but both Angel and Saul are listed as Alive. It says specifically under Angels profile "Was on the roof of the tower when it collapsed, and is presumed dead by surviving members of the tower." And all other minor charters are listed as dead unless we heard that they got out.

I think this saves Angel and Saul but Burt is still way up in the air, or splat on the ground? Did they list it that way because they cant say he is alive after he just fell off a bldg? But Angel was almost in the same situation right? and they are saying he is alive.

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Originally Posted by rayray

Has any one noted that on the Character profiles Burt is listed as unknown, but both Angel and Saul are listed as Alive. It says specifically under Angels profile "Was on the roof of the tower when it collapsed, and is presumed dead by surviving members of the tower." And all other minor charters are listed as dead unless we heard that they got out.

I think this saves Angel and Saul but Burt is still way up in the air, or splat on the ground? Did they list it that way because they cant say he is alive after he just fell off a bldg? But Angel was almost in the same situation right? and they are saying he is alive.

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The Wiki is updated by members of the forum, not KC. Those status listings reflect the current thoughts and discussions of the forum. Burt is listed as unknown because there is major debate in the as to whether he is alive or dead, and we are assuming that all the minor characters are currently dead.
Also, welcome to the forums!

Okay, like 5th listen through and still new thoughts are coming to me.

Assuming that it Burt and Angel, are still alive. Burt would still be thinking that Angel is the rat. Set up for a situation next season, perhaps?

Saul was definitely thinking about trading Pegs, before seeing sense. Otherwise he wouldn't have lied to Kelly in 23-3.

How would Angel have known that tankers were used to blow up the arena? Maybe this is an inconsistency, but it could also be proof of conversations happening that we arent told about. Still, it seems like talking about the situation of the arena would have been one of the last things that Angel and Saul had to talk about.

Interesting how Pippin was sent in to see if Pegs was there first, rather than to see what the rat was up to. Hmm...

Burt has godly vision in this chapter, seeing things that Michael can't two times.

EDIT: new one - the tower members have got complacent about the zombies. Michael drove to LAX by himself, and Datu was left alone at LAX.

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Originally Posted by GD_Elite

How would Angel have known that tankers were used to blow up the arena?
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Because Saul reported back what he found when he was checking out the wreckage. Not to mention that all the way back in earlier chapters, they knew the Mallers had access to a couple of tankers.

(Which again, I don't think the tankers were ALWAYS intended on harming the Tower people. I think that they had their own plans before the Tower was even any knowledge to them)

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Originally Posted by GD_Elite

Burt has godly vision in this chapter, seeing things that Michael can't two times.

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One of those two things has to be taken with a grain of salt (Burt ID'ing the RPG and the guy reloading). He had knowledge that the Mallers had his RPG and my guess is he assumed they only had the one device (or unit....whatever you would call that). So once it fired and missed he could say that the Maller was reloading since he knew there was only one on the scene.

I don't remember the other instance at this moment.

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Originally Posted by usmcludwig

Because Saul reported back what he found when he was checking out the wreckage. Not to mention that all the way back in earlier chapters, they knew the Mallers had access to a couple of tankers.

(Which again, I don't think the tankers were ALWAYS intended on harming the Tower people. I think that they had their own plans before the Tower was even any knowledge to them)

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Saul didn't radio back to the tower before he spoke to Kelly in 23-3. However the conversation could have happened between then and the beginning of chapter 24.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

One of those two things has to be taken with a grain of salt (Burt ID'ing the RPG and the guy reloading). He had knowledge that the Mallers had his RPG and my guess is he assumed they only had the one device (or unit....whatever you would call that). So once it fired and missed he could say that the Maller was reloading since he knew there was only one on the scene.

I don't remember the other instance at this moment.

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I already forgot what I meant, but I think I was referring to Burt being able to take the shot on the maller with the RPG when Michael couldn't do it. Also, Angel couldn't even see through the smoke.

EDIT: Just before the RPG hits the towers tanker, Michael says he cant see the mallers, but Burt can. So including shooting the RPG guy, it could be three occasions.

My heart stopped! But only becuase I thought it was either Angel or Michael for some strange reason :/ But I actually liked Kalani even though he frustrated me when him and Angel went out to get the MRE's. May he R.I.P

So I haven't relistened to the end since the week of...and I must say hats off to all involved in kalani's "demise"....it still gets to me...and that's coming from a die-hard kalani hater...just needed to say that somewhere..

So not sure if its been mentioned yet but who do you think the 2nd person is that the mallers are holding captive? Theres lizzy and......

I personally think its samantha cause they went to the arena... Maybe she somehow survived? Maybe i missed something?

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Originally Posted by Minicoop95

So not sure if its been mentioned yet but who do you think the 2nd person is that the mallers are holding captive? Theres lizzy and......

I personally think its samantha cause they went to the arena... Maybe she somehow survived? Maybe i missed something?

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Kc has confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that Samantha is dead.

And here's the thread discussing who the second person might be: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...ghlight=person

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

Kc has confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that Samantha is dead.

And here's the thread discussing who the second person might be: http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/s...ghlight=person

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Thanks for clearing that up.

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Originally Posted by Minicoop95

Thanks for clearing that up.

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No problem! :)

Welcome to the community!

Iam still holding on to the thought that Angel had made a leap for landing gear of the Jolly Green; and riding it to the new place. I also cant wait until the new season begins.

This episode totally renewed my hatred of Scratch. Here's why:

After the ambush attack on the Maller's convoy, they were only left with six tankers, not enough to completely destroy the Arena like they planned. Yet here we are at the Season Finale and Scratch saved one for the Tower. I was so mad at her for that. I know they still would have been short 2 tankers, but even so, another tanker would have meant more damage and more zombies killed. It might even have been the difference between killing the Colored One and allowing him to escape.

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Originally Posted by Zombiphobe

This episode totally renewed my hatred of Scratch. Here's why:

After the ambush attack on the Maller's convoy, they were only left with six tankers, not enough to completely destroy the Arena like they planned. Yet here we are at the Season Finale and Scratch saved one for the Tower. I was so mad at her for that. I know they still would have been short 2 tankers, but even so, another tanker would have meant more damage and more zombies killed. It might even have been the difference between killing the Colored One and allowing him to escape.

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So long as there is only one Pimp Ass Zombie (It's Paul, The Man in the Pinstriped Suit, The Colored One, The Marked One etc etc) then he wasn't at the arena when it was attacked. He was somewhere South of there after the ambush he led against the Maller Convoy.

Well, I have yet to make up my mind about the theory that there is only one Pimp Ass Zombie, but from what I read in the forums, one of the requirements to have one Pimp Ass Zombie is that it would need to be super fast. Surely fast enough to beat a convoy of tankers that stopped to regroup along the way.

You all may not like Scratch because she seems (for whatever reason) to have it in for the tower folk, but at least she had the cajones to also take it to the zombies at their own crib. She is one pissed off woman...and to make it all the worse, now she apparently has what she was looking for. That most likely spells bigtime trouble for our tower friends.

And as there are apparently more than one rat running around inside the tower nest, there are no doubt more than one PAZ running around L.A.