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Yea the thief is rough. A lot of evidence points to Bill. But, Pegs did take care of Bill when his leg was infected. She could have accessed the key then. She would be familiar with the elevators and the breaker. If the thief / rat / killer is the same person, the only major characters available are Pegs and Kelley
The thief has to be Bill. There's no doubt. He said sorry before he died. Which to me, signaled that he took the supplies.
I have couple different thoughts on the rat/thief/killer. I don't know if any of these are accurate or even possible, but they are interesting to thinkmabout all the same. First of all, I think that they are all different people. Second, I think that Bill was the thief, due to his apology before his death. Also, it's possible that he may have been somehow involved with the mallers. I may be incorrect (it's been a while since I listened to that part of the story) but I seem to remember that the supplies dissapeared just before the mallers attacked. Maybe Bill somehow knew that the mallers were coming, stole the supplies to save himself, then had a change of heart and came back to help? Third, I think that the rat used to someone else who died (Bill?), and the new rat may be someone at the tower who is being blackmailed by the mallers. Maybe someone whose family has been captured, or who has someone important held in captivity? It would be interesting (if not very likely) if the rat was Saul or Riley, and the mallers have contacted them, saying they'll kill Lizzy if they don't follow orders? It would be another reason for Scratch to say she needs Lizzy. Lastly, the killer could be someone who doesn't nescisarily someone who wants to harm the tower (they didn't kill Hope, and they may have just been taking justice into their own hands), but the fact that the radio gets shot is... interesting. If it was someone at the tower, they would probably would know about the other radio. Is it someone from outside? Is it someone who didn't want the tower to hear something on the radio for a certain period of time? I honestly have no clue. Anyway, just a couple of crackpot theories. Please tell me how wrong I am by replying! Flames appreciated!
I have finally decided where I am going to stick my flag for the rat, and I think it is Kalani. Here are a few things that stick out for me:
- The situation surrounding Kalani and the other Tower. Was he actually there, wasn't he? He is recognised by Skittles, but almost seems like he is going out of his way to say that he doesn't remember Skittles.
- Kalani seems to be integrating himself well with whoever is charge of the Tower
- We have never asked or heard about what happened to the people that he cam from Hawaii with. Did he have friends or family with him, if so where are they. Could he have ended up in the other Tower in a similar way to Pippin? And after they were busted by the Zombies he was picked up by our Tower.
- I don't think that Kalani was able to get downstairs and out of the Tower before the alarm went off. I think that he left Michael, and was able to go down, set off the alarm (he is in the leadership crowd so would know where the wires are). He then shot Pippin and the radio. I think he shot the radio, so that by the time they got the new radio going, enough time would have past that he could suggest to Datu and others that they were well out when it happened.
- He was very interested in where Fort Irwin is. I know that as the pilot he does need to know, but tied in with the other things I was a bit worried when he asked about exactly where it is and why it is so good.
I think he supports the Tower now, at least more then he did at the start, but if that Mallers have one of his friends or family then there is a lot people will do to keep them safe.
My theory on pegs being the rat. She was one of the only named characters left in the tower during the rescue of Datu. The only others there were Liz, bill, tommy and Kelly. She was growing food for bill and helping him when he was sick so it is possible that she learned the hiding spot for the guns or they worked together. It was her idea to have the party and she is pretty demanding about it. Its the first thing she really pushes. Now I'm making a big guess but i think Duri might be pegs father in jail for a gun crime and thats why she hates guns at first. When she talks to him over the radio during the war his tone changes. I think Duri would get pretty annoyed at this point but he doesn't and its just a weird exchange. I think pegs didn't mean for the war to happen and thats part of why she was so depressed after the war. Also why she went on the colony mission to help her feel better about it. I think she is loyal to Michael now and that Pipen was a threat to her. I have a hard time seeing her as a cold blooded killer but desperate times. And i think she had left to go to the chopper when they gathered everyone to smell for gun powder. Most people who the people talk about knowing show up later in the story ie. Saul's mom, hope, angels girl, Saul's girl(dog). I went back and listened to the story with this in mind and it fit. First time on the forums and the only theories i have herd were on were not dead. So I'm sorry if you guys have already shot this down and have to read it again. And i keep hearing kolani and Riley but they were at the arena when the guns were stolen.
First of all, Welcome to the forums :)Quote:
Originally Posted by shanahan237
Second, I don't think anyone else on here has proposed the idea of Pegs being Durai's daughter. That is a very interesting theory indeed, and certainly would give Pegs a reason.
There's two things to keep in mind when it comes to our rat/thief situation: If Bill is actually the thief, Kalani and Riley aren't off the hook. If Bill did actually steal all those goods, then that reopens all doors leading to just about every character.
Second thing to keep in mind: Pegs couldn't have left for the chopper yet for the hand smell test. Kalani and Datu had just left minutes before Michael had Angel gather everyone together. There's at least 1 hour of time between Kalani leaving and calling for Pegs to travel to LAX, and it was during that one hour of travel that Datu and Kalani heard on the radio Michael and Angel executing their ruse of pinning the murder of Pippin on Lewis.
Given the current evidence, I think it is most likely Kelly as the Rat, but I'm not ruling out Riley yet. The good thing about Pippen's murder is that it narrowed down our list of suspects quite a bit, assuming that the assassin and the rat are one in the same. It eliminates the three man soldiers, Burt, and most likely Datu and Kalani (I still hold out that it was possible for one of them to do it). It also means Bill could only be the thief, not the rat, as he is currently ashes. Also, if anyone had any theories that Tommy did it, (first listen through chapter 12, I did), well same story. I also stuck my "Kelly is the rat" flag (back when I hated her) in the ground long ago and I know we here support standing by your original theory.
The way I see the rat getting revealed though is through a conversation with Angel or Michael. Normal conversation, but then the Rat says something they shouldn't know, something about the Mallers or what happened during the radio conversation before the War that wasn't made common knowledge. I could see Michael suddenly catching on and being like, "How would you know that?" then the bulb lights up, slow dramatic music and "It was you!" dun, Dun, DUUUHHH!
Well, Ra1th is going to hate me, but I can not rule out Angel.
Now that some are seeing red or have stopped reading already, I will again float my non-malicious rat. Just because the individual may have been in contact with the mallers does not mean that they conspired with the mallers to Pearl Harbour the tower.
So, the rat cuts contact with the mallers. Pippin shows up. The rat never owned up to the error in judgement making them appear more guilty than they are. The rat now ups the ante and commits murder of a perceived threat. Does the rat amp things up further? Kill Lewis and get away with it. How do Angel and Michael deal with that? After going that far, would the rat kill Angel or Michael to keep the secret.
Of courses the ultimate irony will be that We never learn who the rat is. Michael is writing down all he remembers to make sense of it. KC leaves it to us to make an opinion, but not enough facts to be conclusive.
In so many cases the coverup is worse than the crime.
I'm starting to hope that we don't learn who the rat is til the end. Even though that will go against alot of the things I've been saying recently. All the characters who could possibly be the rat are far to important to the storyline to lose them, or lose faith in them. I suppose that's part if the plan though...damn
while I agree with that...just in my opinion, that's an angle I would save for the final season. Build the tension....lots can happen in the meantime...as you statedQuote:
Originally Posted by Ra1th
I really doubt the rat can be Kelly. Who is the top Ennemy for High detention prisoners ? obviously an Advocate lol. I really really doubt Kelly would do some deal with the Mallers, its against her ''personnality'' she's so ''on the rule'' and do the right thing (the last few episode at least)... Nan the traitor is maybe a minor character, that we didn't discover yet too much.I am thinking Steven. Don't like him, he's a BAD, power-freak man...
But what about if, the rat was Bill all the time, and the other events are from someone else. I am thinking maybe the death of Pippin is maybe not related to the Rat but more an act from someone who was scared that he might be a treat to the Tower (ex: taking a spot in the Helicopter).
Simple suggestion
Good thought. I like the direction it is taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisheye
Defense attorneys are also the saviors of high detention prisoners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisheye
Mhmm Touché! Snap...
I don't mean to be like the person who strikes down other people's theories. Hell, Michael might be zombie for all I know. I just really don't get the idea of Steven being a traitor being a valid thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisheye
When we go back, are we just supposed to know that this character who hasn't been introduced is going around calling the Mallers or such? The reason he is written in there is to make you think exactly what you're thinking, he's giving you a diversion. Steven is a character we all don't like, but he's been in a total of two scenes over the course of the series. I'm also willing to bet that if Kc did write Steven as the traitor, the massive bulk of us are going to be very disappointed in it. There's no negative to him. So what if he's the rat? Kick him out and we'll act like nothing happened. He has no importance. Whereas, if it's someone super close to us that many of us like, it'll blindside not only us but the characters too.
__
Also, I agree with you on Kelly. She has no reason to be the rat. She was played up as a bad character in the beginning, but ultimately just had a lack of focus. She was also one of the first to start attacking the Mallers in the War, I don't know what that benefits if she had an alliance with them. Yeah, it's be a great cover-up, but that led to the deaths of many Mallers, so they wouldn't be happy regardless.
Ra1th,Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra1th
Wasn't Kelly putting them away instead of keeping them out??
Adrian,Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianHD
I subscribe to the none of the above theory. I think it's a "Red Shirt." It doesn't have to be one of the main characters. He/she just has to have a good back story and have the motivation explained right. It's the ramifications and motivation that make what happened important. My opinion.
I do not think we know one way or the other. She could be in Patent Law for all we know.
As to an "unknown" rat. I think it was Crow or Nick pointed out the mysterious third floor lurker.
Someone who lived on the third floor was on guard duty when the zombies "brought in the the dead". Angel says he lived on the third floor, but did not recall his name.
Shots were fired at the mallers from the third floor. No one in the tower bothered to run that lead down. I think it was a six rounds fired. I think it is also interesting to point out that we do know of a Colt .45 but I do not recall a reference to a semi-automatic or a revolver (collector's piece or replica).
Art,
I think Kelly's career was proven, but I don't recall off the top of my head. I'm sure Nik will clear it up.
So you listened to the Angel and Mike Convo about the guy on duty from the 3rd floor huh?
I don't think Mike ran down the lead on that because once the bullets started flying it was forgotten. Once they start connecting the dots, then it'll be a big "oh yah!" moment.
I just think KC has left a few bread crumbs for us. We just have to pay attention is all. It's easier to do when you can listen to every episode one after the other and rewind when you hear something.
I think that we're supposed to think that it is Steven. Obviously we are all going to dislike him, as he is the one who insisted that Lizzy be kicked out of the tower. He was also really determined not to go on guard duty while Pippin was there, which could be interpreted as him knowing that Pippin would recognise him when he saw him. However, if he turned out to be the rat I don't think that it would have the same emotional impact - so far we have not seen anything good about his character. It would be much more devastating for the rat to be someone that the other characters have trusted.
Kalani seems to be a more credible rat to me. Kalani was a pain in the ass at first, but he has redeemed himself in recent episodes. I don't remember Kalani and Pippin meeting face-to-face; Kalani was the one who originally saw him on the video monitors, and he was suspicious of him, he told the others to be careful because Pippin had a gun. I don't think Kalani actually went down to meet him at the gate with Angel and Datu though. If Steven really is a red herring, then it is probably also supposed to throw us off that Kalani and Datu went out on a mission just before the alarm went off; though the timing must have been incredibly close because when Michael was telling Angel to look for holes in people's stories, he specifically said to include Datu and Kalani in the grilling.
Also, if he is a Maller then maybe that is why Skittles recognised him... Skittles had said that he thought Angel and Kalani were 'the bad people' before he rescued them, and Kalani brushed him off quite brusquely when Skittles asked if he knew him.
It could also be Riley, however; when Michael and Angel rushed downstairs to check on Hope, they bumped into her in the stairwell. They asked if she had seen anyone, and she said no. She was one of the people with no alibi. Maybe she got drunk to prepare herself for killing in cold blood? Michael and Angel don't seem to have considered her as an option, maybe because they are close to her and trust her? Wouldn't it make it all the more devastating if she turned out to be the traitor, though, rather than it being a random character we haven't met before? However, she has been in the story since the first episode, which means she couldn't have lived with the Mallers after the outbreak happened. Perhaps she was in jail with them before everything happened, and has some sort of loyalty to them. We don't know anything about her history.
This is true also, but the backstory would have to expand quite a bit. From chapter 7 and onward with motivations to boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Well, whoever it is, they're going to have to fill in Pipp's story now as well as their own.
I am sticking with the rat is Steven, even though its so obvious and wouldn't be that much fun. I just think that KC has kept us guessing the rat for 20 chapters now and giving us better and better hints until the last chapter where he pretty much gave it away. After Steven is discovered as the rat, I believe Michael is read his journal and there will be a whole episode devoted to just the story of Steven and where he came from and how he ended up being the rat.
so i know that this is brought up alot but i just noticed the comment that scratch said that they still had her(the rat) when Tardust asks about it. also apparently she has not been in contact for a while according to scratch.
the options(that we know of) are lizzy, pegs, kelly, or riley
it cant be lizzy because she is with them
pegs contacted scratch over latche's death and her dependent character at the beginning of the first season makes me think it isnt her.
kelly and riley are both suspect. kelly is an obvious answer because she tired to rebel early on but she has spent alot of time out with michael.
riley is more plausible. she is an alcoholic and we dont know really that much about her. she also would be a good suprise for who the rat is. unless im wrong she spent the most time at the tower and alot of time passes when we dont know what is happening with her. also she is seen at random places ie angel is startled by her on top of the tower. the only thing is that she went to save kalani. i could also see riley feeling regret and, while drunk, killing pippin because she regrets what she has done and is stopping another rat from entering the tower. perhaps whe is playing the mallers but doesnt want to tell the tower she used to be a rat.
i dont know, honestly it will probably be a random person
First of all, welcome!
I like your points on Riley. I'm on the "Riley is the rat" bandwagon myself and intend to stay on even if it goes off a cliff ;)
But one thing: The "we still have her bit from Scratch (20-3) seems to be talking about two people. Tardust asks "What about the other one?" and Scratch says "We still have her." Tar then asks "No the other one, the one already there (at the Tower)?" And Scratch says they haven't heard anything in awhile.
So it seems like the mallers have someone, a female someone in their possession. I'm thinking a hostage but there's not enough evidence to say for sure.
Here's where we differ my friend. I love Riley. She's been one of my favorite characters from the start. And I continue to love her despite her rattitude. Scratch, on the other hand, scares the living crap out of me. I'm intimidated just listening to her scream on the podcast. *shudders*Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris
Kelly. She's a bitch and I don't want her anymore. Plus a couple of serious other points that I've stated in other threads.
Back to page one...and still kalani....that smarmy @fgagsf
At anybody thinks Scratch's comment of "We still have her", that comment is vague. Tar says afterword "No the one already there. No response?". Scratch says next "Not for a while". So the her could be anybody. 7oddisdead and zombiecupcake, thank you for opening your mind to the truth.
/\Been saying kalani since before I joined here.
here's some more evidence
When hope came to the tower, we never heard kalani once mention anything of the situation. We know from what we are told that Kalani knew Samantha had a daughter named hope..and now she's in the same tower as him..so why no reaction? I know the helicopter search cannot totally pre-occupy all of his time
Skittles recognized him...while we do not know where skittles is from...based on this either skittles is not from the other tower or kalani isn't. And how could skittles know him and he not know skittles?...
We see his true colors just before he and burt leave for the hospital...while he didn't lie about he and angels experience with the big one, he did skew the story in such a way to serve his purpose..how many other times could he have done that
Alright, my dear friend lvmetndr pointed out a very interesting point in what could be another nail in Kelly's coffin. Going back to the end of 7-3 and the start of 8-1, we hear Scratch and Latch approach the Tower. Kelly was on guard when this occured and was supposedly asleep. When Angel bangs on the security room door he finds Kelly yawning and claiming that all she heard was his banging.
This could be a ruse. She may have written in her journal, to go along with the ploy, that she fell asleep while reading the book Peggs bought her. This could have been the moment, the first contact Kelly had with the Mallers; she could have contacted them via radio before thier approach to the building.
I thought it was a good theory worth mentioning.
RE Kalani
Remember, things are really moving fast. Hope arrives in the AM. Later, Kalani is put in charge of the tower as the main characters go after the mallers. He is then tasked with helicopter Stuff. My guess he is teaching Pegs because Michael did not want her on guard duty. Very early the next morning (softly after Kelley's shift an I assume she got the graveyard shift) he is off to LAX. He goes back to the tower to pick up Angel and Riley and then to Cain's. That is not a lot of free time. I would also like to point out that RilLey seems really sober now. It was not like Kalani was best of friends with Samantha. He was only at the other tower a couple of days. My guess is there are more than 100 people there. They sent out a scavenging crew of 20.
Re Skittles. Skittle has to remember the face of the new guy. Kalani has to recognize skittles among 100+ people. I also do not think they would put Skittles in the welcoming committee.
Re big one. Michael is most likely describing Angel's version. Burt is recalling what he remembers of Kalani's version.
So who is Burt talking to?
He is really repressing some anger with Saul, I could see him trying to tamp it down if he was talking to Tanya. Maybe Michael. Would he suppress it for people he does not know?
Second, he talks about how the other team was out looking for a copter as if the listener was not familiar with that.
:P
Different ways of seeing the same story...in my mind it all makes sense. In yours,it seems completely ludicrous. I'm perfectly ok with that....
I been thinking but I'm not sure, all I know is that it could be someone that has not been maned jet.
Nah, not ridiculous, but someone has to stand up for us middle age fat guys
Two things, Burt is most likely talking to Micheal, Tanya already made all the journals digital and no one is writing in them anymore, other than Micheal and Lizzy. The second thing is that the rat has to be someone who knew Angel and Hope would be in the guard room OR they planned it to be in the morning for some reason, leaving the scene of the crime?, and just ran into Hope and knew that she was blind. That narrows it down to :Steven, Kelly, Kalani, Riley, and Datu (nearly impossible). I leave Kalani on the list because we know he is headed downstairs when the alarm goes off, Datu is only on the list because there is plenty of time for him to run up stairs cut the line (he is the maintenance man and should know where just about everything is) kill pippin and give himself the time to flee by shooting the radio. I, personally, see that the rat is someone who would be out of the tower and shot the tower to try and give themselves an alibi.
So after going threw it again, I have a smaller more accurate list.
Kelly-(likely)
It is popular belief that Kelly was once in a trial with a Maller. What we do know about Kelly is that she was babysitting her nephew when the outbreak happened. Her niece was killed in the original outbreak. Tommy was killed in the War. Kelly was drunk at the party. Kelly was at the tower when Pippin was shot, she was also one of the first people to show up at the guard room. Kelly was the "specialist" for Micheal's interrogation of Pippin. Kelly had just gotten off of guard duty when Pippin was killed, she was also chatting it up with Pippin.
Speculation: If Kelly is the rat then she might have talked to him in code during her turn as guard. She might have been diplomatic when she told Micheal her opinion on Pippin's story.
Holes in the Theory: Kelly would have had to pass Riley on the way to kill Pippin. Kelly became devoted to the tower after Tommy's death.
Kalani-(possible)
Kalani was found in the Arena. What we know about Kalani is that he was at LAX. Kalani says he is from Hawaii and was rescued by the Other tower. Kalani was on guard duty the day of the party and the War. He knows how to fly a helicopter and a plane, not at the same time. He knows about helicopters. He had just left or was on his way to leaving the Tower when Pippin was killed.
Speculation: If Kalani's story is false, then he has a high probability of being a Maller. He SAYS he had been in the other tower only a few days before it was attacked and then he was at the tower two days before it was attacked. Kalani says he flew into LAX, that is awful close to the Strip Mall and I doubt that they would have missed a plane flying in the air toward them. Kalani, as far as we know, never talked to Pippin. It would have been advantaguous of him to shoot the radio after killing Pippin. Giving him enough time to leave the tower. It also took him and Datu an hour to get to LAX.
Holes in the Theory: Kalani actually knows helicopters. He isn't afraid of a fight, and he was a brown-noser to the leader.
Steven-(likely)
Steven has been a prick since we've been introduced to him. What we know about Steven is that he got Lizzy kicked out of the Tower. Steven also didn't want to do guard duty with Pippin in the room. Steven was sent to the roof when Pippin was killed. Michael says he doesn't trust him. Steven knows that Angel and Hope are in the guard room. Was on guard duty after Lewis was framed.
Speculation: Steven is an easy way out of a hard problem. Plot wise, it is easier for Kc to introduce a person that will become the rat then it is to work the rat into a character.
Holes in the Theory:... I haven't found any.
Datu-(nearly impossible)
Datu is the maintenance man. What we know of Datu is that he is Philippians, and loves Hope like a daughter. Datu was reportedly down in the motorpool when Pippin was shot.
Speculation: Datu was "sick" at the beginning of the party and was up and around during the fire.
Holes in the Theory: Datu was found in the Tower HOURS after the outbreak. He was in the US to get money for his family.
Riley-(not likely)
Riley is a pro archer, chef. What we know of Riley is that she is French, she had just gotten back from the Arena when the war had happened. She was drunk when Pippin first arrived, and was the only other person that was near the guard room when Pippin was killed.
Speculation: Riley was mostly sober at the hospital, which is only hours after the murder of Pippin. Riley has been really shady since the beginning.
Holes in the Theory: Riley was found on top of a flower shop hours after the outbreak. She has been loyal to the Tower since day one.
Red Shirt- (We all don't want this)
Everybody wants the rat to be one of the main characters. It is however possible that the rat is a red shirt.