Chapter 23 Pt 1 - The Devil's Workshop

I apologize if people have brought these things up;

Just bullshitting with some guys in the office but one main thing is WHERE THE HELL DID KELLY COME FROM!

- Kelly showed up to help Steven and Michael battle the zombies but she had a gun and got there pretty quickly. Now it wasnt a silenced pistol by the sound of it, but a few quick twists of the silenced barrel and you have a normal pistol. Could this be a hint to her being the killer? I have always suspected Kelly as the RAT and the Killer on the basis that she was always worried about her own safety and could have easily reached out to the Mallers in an attempt to find a safe group to protect her. Why would she be the killer? To protect her name from being unearthed and maybe because she realized that Pippen was there to check up on her and also act as a mole for the Mallers.

RANDY!!!!! I think everyone has touched on this enough but I agree that Randy could very well be someone Michael met while at the pumping station......or on his way back

Burt is retelling the story of the hospital battle.....this has to be after the fact of course. The only other person we have seen give an interview like review of an event was Michael at the begginning of the entire story. Is KC slowly creating a list of ultimate survivors? If so we have Michael and Burt......

Now the ultimate goal right now for the Tower is to get to the Army Base......could Burt be giving a debriefing to army officials?

Also, I guess KC fancies himself a lil Tarrentino eh? Showing us Burt n' co fighting the zombies in the hospital at the start and then back tracking to tell the story........this is a first for this series no? Why the change in storyboard forumla?

Kelley was at the next door meeting. She is talking with someone about loading water. Michael tells her to stay, but she comes with Michael and steven. When they raided the Armory at the colony (just a couple of days ago.) , she picked up a glock. I can see her wearing it in a holster.

I wish i had the mental power to read this entire thread and then reply. But i don't, so imma just give my thoughts.

1. I think Randy is the sole reason Michael got out of the Waterworks. But he won't talk about it, so, we'll see.
2. The small ones w/ the tattoos are proof enough for me to believe Ink is harvesting people and turning them into to more powerfull zombies. This probably explains all the big ones and such.
3. Ink knows about the tower, he sent biters there to go and try to collect a few more live specimens. Tanya just happened to be outside when she showed up. Remember, they also didn't leave after they got in a fight, meaning, they are suppose to be there.
4. Mallers hit the Arena, but not to the extent they hoped they would. Ink then rallied the troops, and moved to a new location. Per ep2 Ink was held at a "Mental Health Facility." Maybe that facility was at the hospital.

I can't think of more at the moment.

Hollomandious and Bulldog711 I congradulate you on being the first one to put two and two together and make a GOOD connection about Randy and the WaterWorks, I also believe that is where Randy came in. I also believe that he died or was captured by the biters shortly afterword, giving Michael an experience he isn't too fond of. What we know of the zombies is- They, or atleast one of them, is strategic enough to form an Army and create Traps. They go after the more dangerous groups( I.E. Convoy, Other Tower, Maller Convoy). The Mallers must be creating their own zombies (i.e. Tar talking about "Jonny" in present tense, and "The Sisters"). The Tower has proven themselves dangerous (i.e. The Arena, Burt) and now must be dealt with.
So what makes them unable to create a perfectly strategical plan, such as Blockading and trapping the hospital team. Also the Army could have just been on its way to exact revenge on the Mallers when they stubled upon the Hospital. I do believe that Lizzy isn't dead, how would her Journal entry of the attack on the Arena have been told in detail. Tar and Bricks could be dead, but not likely as Tar is smart with explosives and Bricks is a BEAST!
The Maller is probably on the side of the tower now, he only killed Pippin to make sure that the Tower didn't mistrust... HIM. I believe the rat to be Kalani. I have already said this but it appears that some people don't read every post religiously, YOU WOULD WANT EVERY PERSON IN THE BUILDING NEXT TO THE TOWER TO HAVE A WEAPON, THE MALLERS COULD ATTACK AND THEN YOU HAVE THE FLESH BITERS THAT COULD SHOW UP. IT WOULD BE WEIRD IF SHE DIDN'T HAVE A WEAPON. Nik I don't remember what you said that was slightly wrong, but I will get back to you on that.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

We saw that they kept zombies close by in buildings near the Tower, is it possible that they would know who is important to each group around the city? Assuming the zombies overwhelmed the Mallers and took them alive and dragged them back across the city to the hospital and the Tower area, could it be for the specific reason to create a rise out of the survivors they might encounter?

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So the only body being dragged near the Tower was Tanya's and she is still alive. There we're no bodies dragged TO the Tower, but Randy dragging one away. Knew you said a minor thing wrong. Had to correct you.

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

Kalani already used that quote when he fed a behemoth a mouthful of copper coated lead.

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OH YEAH!! Totally Forgot :P

Jeez, these zombie's are like buses aren't they? You wait ages for one, then a whole army turns up at once!

I'm thinking Riley is starting to nail her own coffin in the whole 'whose the rat' debate. Drinking to forget anyone?

Not so sure I'm on board with Ink, TOWTM or whomever acting as zombie leader, as it would mean the rest of the zombie's have a certain level of intelligence to carry out orders and exercise a level of restraint (not eating\biting - they must certainly be getting peckish by now eh?)

Randy is totally the reason Michael got out of the pumping station with just a broken arm. I think he must have helped and in the process got caught. Maybe Michael even saw him 'turn'.

Burt is still alive, the very first part, where they are trapped with nowhere to go, he then says "let me go back a little further..."

An interesting thought just occurred go me...michael started this whole story off in much the same manner as burt did this chapter. Could this be an early indication of Michaels death?...i highly doubt it, but that would make a bit of sense in that context..

And now for no sense.....
Everybody seems to be predicting the demise of one of the major characters...mostly...burt...im gonna come out of left field and say....DATU.-__-

One other thing of interest that we haven't discussed yet is the album artwork. Looking at the pic it seems to be someone in a pinstripe suit. Also of interest is the hand. To me it looks like it could be either a tattooed red x, or a scar in the shape of an x.
This also fits with the Devils Workshop Title

I commented on the artwork a little, mostly noting that the figure carried an arrow, no doubt one of Riley's. I can't really see the marking on his hand you speak of, but perhaps my monitor is weaker than yours. Although I do believe that this figure could be Ink/Pin Stripes, I'm curious as to why his suit is so clean. I mean it could just be the manner the artwork is done, but if it is a zombie I just feel his clothes should be a bit more grimey. Unless Ink/Pin Stripes is that pimp!

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Originally Posted by NJHellfire

Hollomandious and Bulldog711 I congradulate you on being the first one to put two and two together and make a GOOD connection about Randy and the WaterWorks

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page 9:

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Originally Posted by GD_Elite

Randy. I reckon Michael met him in water pumping station, but I am curious to know if Michael knew him before this all started, or could it be a Datu/Samantha situation. lol

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Is my connection to GOOD? :(

I don't think you can rule out that Burt will die this chapter. I think the way he starts with the present suggests that he is writing/talking about it close to the time that the events have taken place in. I don't necessarily think it will definately happen in the next two chapters, but I don't think its fair to rule out the possibility. If Burt is going to die, I think he will die sacrificing himself to save others and there is potential for that to happen in the next chapter or two. I also think that he will meet Saul/Lizzy again as these are the 2 characters he is closest to (fuel truck mission), but also because the worst things that happened to them were a consequence of his actions and he feels responsible for them. (Saul shot/Lizzy kicked out)

@Adventureless_Hero: Is it not possible that he could have got a new suit? He's smart enough to be able to talk, understand the potential of weapons, and infiltrate towers as well as to lead large quantities of other zombies. Is it not possible he has the sense, to go shopping for a new suit as well? I mean the other one did have two bullet holes in.

I'm going to post my theory, so you can all admire how crazy it is. The zombies going to the hospital to repair/heal/fix themselves. This is why I think this:

• The zombies are going to a hospital rather than any other building in LA.
• After the Maller's attack on the arena, many of the zombies have been burned. (pinstripes has been shot 3 times aswell)
• Another main zombie that has been injured has an arrow through it's eye. We know big ones are going to the hospital too, hence the cover artwork.
• The title has workshop in it. This suggests to me that it could be a place where things are taken apart and put back together again.
• Where do zombies get spare parts? Survivors of course. Hence the living humans being brought back.
• It is possible that some of the zombies do in fact feel pain. This is shown by some zombies understanding the impact of weapons (pinstripes getting shot, big one covering face). This could mean they need some medical attention too.
  
  6 reasons: more than most theories. What do other people think to this?

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

I commented on the artwork a little, mostly noting that the figure carried an arrow, no doubt one of Riley's. I can't really see the marking on his hand you speak of, but perhaps my monitor is weaker than yours. Although I do believe that this figure could be Ink/Pin Stripes, I'm curious as to why his suit is so clean. I mean it could just be the manner the artwork is done, but if it is a zombie I just feel his clothes should be a bit more grimey. Unless Ink/Pin Stripes is that pimp!

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zombie dry-cleaning service perhaps? But on a more serious related note, Ink/Pin Stripe doesn't really look much like a zombie in the artwork. He's got a very authoritative stance. He looks to me like he just pulled one of Riley's arrows out of his shoulder as is now looking at it thinking "Go on run away, I'll get you soon enough." In short: he looks more super-villain than zombie.

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Originally Posted by GD_Elite

page 9:


Is my connection to GOOD? :(

I don't think you can rule out that Burt will die this chapter. I think the way he starts with the present suggests that he is writing/talking about it close to the time that the events have taken place in. I don't necessarily think it will definately happen in the next two chapters, but I don't think its fair to rule out the possibility. If Burt is going to die, I think he will die sacrificing himself to save others and there is potential for that to happen in the next chapter or two. I also think that he will meet Saul/Lizzy again as these are the 2 characters he is closest to (fuel truck mission), but also because the worst things that happened to them were a consequence of his actions and he feels responsible for them. (Saul shot/Lizzy kicked out)

@Adventureless_Hero: Is it not possible that he could have got a new suit? He's smart enough to be able to talk, understand the potential of weapons, and infiltrate towers as well as to lead large quantities of other zombies. Is it not possible he has the sense, to go shopping for a new suit as well? I mean the other one did have two bullet holes in.

I'm going to post my theory, so you can all admire how crazy it is. The zombies going to the hospital to repair/heal/fix themselves. This is why I think this:

• The zombies are going to a hospital rather than any other building in LA.
• After the Maller's attack on the arena, many of the zombies have been burned. (pinstripes has been shot 3 times aswell)
• Another main zombie that has been injured has an arrow through it's eye. We know big ones are going to the hospital too, hence the cover artwork.
• The title has workshop in it. This suggests to me that it could be a place where things are taken apart and put back together again.
• Where do zombies get spare parts? Survivors of course. Hence the living humans being brought back.
• It is possible that some of the zombies do in fact feel pain. This is shown by some zombies understanding the impact of weapons (pinstripes getting shot, big one covering face). This could mean they need some medical attention too.
  
  6 reasons: more than most theories. What do other people think to this?

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my apologies, yes your connection is fantastic. I guess after 16 pages I missed some. To any who made the prediction of Micheal meeting Randy at the pumping station good job.

Burts gonna die. They'll be holed up in one room in the hospital and writing in his journal while they think of a way out. He'll sacrifice himself the others will survive. Layer on someone else is reading his journal.

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Originally Posted by Kn1ckerb0cker33

I don't know if anyone already mentioned this but, did anyone else notice that Angel didn't say anything at the beginning of the episode when Burt, Riley and Kalani locked themselves in the room? I mean that doesn't mean he wasn't there with them, but I just found it strange.

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Angel does say something at the beginning.

Kalini:They are coming from both ways!
Burt:Head in the hole!
Angel:There is not where to go!
Riley:Quick in here.
Kalini: There's no way out, We're trapped in here.

^^^. This. I hear Angel

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

I commented on the artwork a little, mostly noting that the figure carried an arrow, no doubt one of Riley's. I can't really see the marking on his hand you speak of, but perhaps my monitor is weaker than yours. Although I do believe that this figure could be Ink/Pin Stripes, I'm curious as to why his suit is so clean. I mean it could just be the manner the artwork is done, but if it is a zombie I just feel his clothes should be a bit more grimey. Unless Ink/Pin Stripes is that pimp!

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Must have missed that sorry. I couldn't work out what it was he had in his hand. The marking on his hand is on his left, near the cuffs.
I can see it by making the iTunes artwork bigger on the Mac.
Here is what I see:


I think he just got his zombie minions to raid the city for all pin stripe suits and changes them every day.

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Originally Posted by cupcakezombie

One other thing of interest that we haven't discussed yet is the album artwork. Looking at the pic it seems to be someone in a pinstripe suit. Also of interest is the hand. To me it looks like it could be either a tattooed red x, or a scar in the shape of an x.
This also fits with the Devils Workshop Title

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I totally forgot to add this topic into my earlier post.

Go double check me if you like, but back a while ago in a Ink thread i said something to the effect of, "ink isn't killing them. he's using them as parts." now, i may have said this somewhat jokingly, but, deep down; i meant it. and as soon as we got a closer look at the little ones and that tattoo of a 5 on the arm and then that pic/title for chap23. i feel like i wanna say, i called it.

And now i prediction.

First off, the group is at the hospital by chance when the Ink & Co show up to take over the hospital. Unknown to the group, Lizzy/Tar/Bricks are being transported to the hospital for use as parts. The group will find Lizzy/Bricks (most likely on accident) right after Tar gets used for parts (we're gonna hear it happen as well). Bricks will become a part of the Tower after being rescued. Oh, and Kalani is gonna die, and it will just eff up all the helicopter plans.

Maybe?

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Originally Posted by cupcakezombie

Must have missed that sorry. I couldn't work out what it was he had in his hand. The marking on his hand is on his left, near the cuffs.
I can see it by making the iTunes artwork bigger on the Mac.
Here is what I see:


I think he just got his zombie minions to raid the city for all pin stripe suits and changes them every day.

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I too noticed the mark/scar on the back of that particular individuals hand. And I thought the same thing. The only thing that makes me stop for the slightest second from saying it's definitely the same figure is the difference in the hands vs. Chapter 11-1 artwork. The hand in 11-1 looks gray/discolored. The hand in 23-1 looks like normal barring the marks you mentioned.

The similarity in suit colors is pretty spot on....though it sure looks like the guy got a hold of an iron between chapters 11 and 23 ;)

hey guys. im not sure if anyone has mentioned this but when angel, riley, burt, and kalani are driving to the hospital, angel mentions that he has the silenced mp5 from the colony. this may be the gun that was used to kill pippen. if so, then this is a big step towards angel possibly being the rat/murderer. id also like to point out that if its not the gun, then the gun used has to be burt's barreta. the person who has it is possibly the rat/murderer according to Arthur LaMarche, who pointed out that only two silenced weapons are in the towers possession.

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Originally Posted by Prototype

hey guys. im not sure if anyone has mentioned this but when angel, riley, burt, and kalani are driving to the hospital, angel mentions that he has the silenced mp5 from the colony. this may be the gun that was used to kill pippen. if so, then this is a big step towards angel possibly being the rat/murderer. id also like to point out that if its not the gun, then the gun used has to be burt's barreta. the person who has it is possibly the rat/murderer according to Arthur LaMarche, who pointed out that only two silenced weapons are in the towers possession.

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Yeah Angel having the mp5 has been brought up. But remember the aftermath of Pippin's shooting was told from Angel and Michael's perspective. And its pretty clear that Angel did run to check out the alarm. There just isn't enough time between Michael hearing the alarm go off and him running into Angel outside of Burt's store for Angel to have doubled back to kill Pippin.

I think the thing to make note of from that, is that angel has the silenced mp5. Meaning, it had to be the barretta the shooter used. Though most of us already made that connection at the time..

The thing I want to try, but haven't had the chance to do yet. Back in chapter 7-8 riley was using an unsilenced barretta. Compare the sound of that shot to the sound of the shot from Kelly in this chapter. Its already been stated that Kelly had a glock, so does her shot sound like a glock.....or a barretta?

Just remembered Burt shot the one with the markings in the hand. Thats what that it could be. The X looks more like a burn or a scar than a tattoo, this could mean its more recent than the tattoos perhaps?

It is true that the two zombies do look the same, and so does the suit. Very probable that they are the same. Only difference is there are no visible bullet holes in the suit, but it's quite possible that he got a new one.

I thought the X might be a roman numeral, but lizzy says that the little one's hand has a number 5 on it, not mentioning roman numerals so its unlikely to be a link between the two types.

@prototype: Welcome to the forums. It does seem to be almost definite that the silenced beretta was used on pippin, just a shame we don't know who used it.

EDIT: In 19-3 at about 18:25 michael uses the silenced mp5 and it sounds nothing like what was used against pippin.

7odd,

In the same episode, Shirly. First shot. Zombie dies; Burt hit the target!

I think Riley has switched to the pistol for the run and clone.

The Glock has a slightly deeper rumble than the Berreta, but well below shirly

(I think) I have not done the head to head listening, but when I heard Kelley shoot in this episode, I noticed it sounded different than the Beretta we have heard so often.

In addition I think,
the shots in the tower Sound like those that kill fernando (again, a silenced berreta.)
the shots in the tower do not Sound like the silenced MP5 as they escape the colony. The Mp5 is more of a "burb" than the sharper classic holywood silenced pistol.

Last, I think there may have been a slight errror in that chapter. I think the shots taken through the door at the beach housse do not sound silenced. I thought I heard more of a Crack. But, I am not going to put it in another thread until I can go back and really listen it.

pree-vyeht Arthur!
I'm just saying....does kelly's glock sound like a glock?..i don't pay attention to the gun sounds and analyze them. I have to stop the obsession somewhere

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Originally Posted by GD_Elite

Just remembered Burt shot the one with the markings in the hand. Thats what that it could be. The X looks more like a burn or a scar than a tattoo...

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Brilliant! I think that is absolutely right. I kept trying to focus on the history between Burt and Pin Stripes. He shot at it when they were in the rain at the scene of the trap, he shot at it when they returned from the arena and that's when he hit it in the hand. Also, did he shoot at Pin Stripes when they were on the fire truck or in that situation was he shooting at the One With Markings?

No he missed when he took a shot at it. Just two shots in the chest and one in the hand.

Niet 7odd, I do not know enough about guns to tell if Kelley's Glock sounds like a Glock. Isn't it Goocoo, Goocoo?

But, I will say that whatever kelly fires its sound is different than the sound we hear when people fire a Beretta in this podcast

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Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero

Brilliant! I think that is absolutely right. I kept trying to focus on the history between Burt and Pin Stripes. He shot at it when they were in the rain at the scene of the trap, he shot at it when they returned from the arena and that's when he hit it in the hand. Also, did he shoot at Pin Stripes when they were on the fire truck or in that situation was he shooting at the One With Markings?

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We don't know. It is unclear if the Man in the Pinstripe Suit is the same as The One With the Markings. Not to mention everyone in the story seems to have a different name for what could potentially be the same zombie.

I noticed this too Arthur LaMarche. I think this is what made people assume its the Glock, because this is the only Glock that we know that the tower has, and she took it, so it makes it likely.

EDIT: @nikvoodoo. At first I thought they were too seperate zombies, but the one in the pinstripe suit/"paul" is described as being covered from head to toe in tattoos. tattoos/markings, same thing right?

Fair enough.....pah-KAH!. .(I'm learning)

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Originally Posted by GD_Elite

No he missed when he took a shot at it. Just two shots in the chest and one in the hand.

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Yeah, i remember him hitting it in the hallway twice in the chest, then once in the hand just before it called for backup. But do you think that was the same one he shot at that was commanding the horde during the tower fire?

EDIT

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

We don't know. It is unclear if the Man in the Pinstripe Suit is the same as The One With the Markings. Not to mention everyone in the story seems to have a different name for what could potentially be the same zombie.

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True. Personally, I believe that the one with marking and pinstripes are seperate creatures.

When are we gonna get back to Lizzie? I'm biting my nails here!

Calling it: Riley's alcohol will be used to repel the creatures and aid in their escape.

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Originally Posted by Zombiehead

Calling it: Riley's alcohol will be used to repel the creatures and aid in their escape.

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Ooh, I like! Then she can get sh*tty about losing the good alcohol.
"Would you prefer to get eaten?"
"I'd prefer to have something to drink!" except wittier.

Amazing episode!!!

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Originally Posted by TCM Revolver

I bet they tried to keep tanya alive so they could turn her.

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Dang, I didn't even think of that! That's hella scary how organized they are!

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Originally Posted by TCM Revolver

After the Maulers unleashed hell on the arena, they have to be low on numbers.

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I've been listening to the series at work, but did I miss something? When did that happen? I thought that the zombies attacked the Mallers, not the other way around!

For me, this is the CREEPIEST CHAPTER OF THE ENTIRE SHOW.
Just freaks me right out, all three parts.