If you guys take a look at the "Unanswered questions" section of the Wiki, the clues make it clear who the rat is.
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If you guys take a look at the "Unanswered questions" section of the Wiki, the clues make it clear who the rat is.
Its Bill!!!
Not Bill! He didn't have the motivation. Why would he want even MORE people in HIS building? He wanted to be left alone in his selfish little world.
Paul did it. That's why he died. Duh! Karma.
People need to stop hating on Kalani. Gosh. He's gonna bring a lot of new skill to the team. I bet that sometime in the series, their gonna come across a plane and Kalani is the only on who can fly it.
Trust me, you're not the only one on here who holds that belief. It's too juicy a tid bit of information about Kalani to pass up. And unless we hear about who the rat is in chapter 20, we get to have all the same arguments all over again. I'm really hoping I convinced more people that Datu was the rat! Come on everyone! DATU! DATU!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmMattFriend
Damnit....I thought I inoculated everyone on here from that damn Kalani virus.....back to the lab!Quote:
Originally Posted by Onslaught
Datu was given a pistol a while back, but I am quite sure he lost it during the arena bit. (CORRECTION NIK?)
Why would he be the mole? I am under the air that he is emotionally distraught during the party deal.
Could Kelly work a CB radio?
The soldiers sure, the pilot NO DOUBT, P/R/T/L/K probably not.
Bill?
Very possible, he was barricaded on the top floor on day 1.
He knew either something, or someone, he is very suspicious but one question I struggle with is the multiple moles model.
If I am to assume that these characters listed above contains the mole then it seems unlikely that more than one of them would be dirty thus if it was to be one character that fired/called/stole then I would have to settle with Bill.
He knew all the info provided, and even brought down alcohol to help grease the gears.
My only issue with this theory:
I feel a call went out earlier to establish a relationship and then another to queue up the attack and Bill didn't seem to have that kinda time other than when they left for the Arena.
well first of all, i think knowing how to use a cb radio would be a basic skill in the zombie apocalypse so lets not go jumping to conclusions that only the soldiers can do it, tommy was the tech guy, so no doubt he could, pegs used the radio to call angel at the tower, so she can, Riley and lizzy are both strong characters and often go into the field so no doubt it's survival 101 that they know how to use the radio in case something goes wrong, I'm convinced they all know how to use a radio.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Muffins
Ur theory with bill seems solid, but i dont think this will be the case, for one reason only, having a dead guy be your mole makes for bad storytelling. that ruins the build up of suspense, which one your loved characters is going to be the traitor, it's building up all this tension, and then having it all be bill, the guy who's already screwed over the group by stealing food and ammo, would be kind of an anticlimax. of course i would take bill over say, angel, or saul or riley, any day, cause if the traitor somehow ends up being angel, (which it wont!) there will be hell to pay! I hope its datu or kalani, just cause i have no attachment to either of them, i think it could be kelly, but she's really grown on me the last few chapters, she's pretty funny and useful now, arghhh right now, all the shitty characters went through a salvation of one sort or another recently, kalani went on an advneture with angel, kelly proved herself, and hope is at the tower so i'm sure datu will stop being a pessimist now. whatever as long as it isnt angel
I still say it was the guy who died trying to leave the tower!
He was given a gun, but he emptied it when he fell into the trap. There's no mention that it made it to the Arena so I'll assume he lost it. However, Datu has keys to every room in the building and could make it into the weapons store at any point during the day we don't hear about/during the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Muffins
I explained already earlier when I cast my vote for Datu. And here's the explanation again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
That just seem so bizarre Nikoooo...
I recall reading that now but still...
I could see that type of attitude from a really jealous Pegs, but Datu risking his life and the lives of those who saved him over a dead chick who was killed because of Kalani's illness/possum ploy seems too strong. I could see Datu calling them up on accident, or w.e and just being like
"OH YESH WE'RE ALIVE! Here is our address because I am one of the few people who knows it from before the breakout! YEAH WE HAVE ROOM! MICHEAL WOULD LOVE YOU BAD-ASSES!"
But the only problem with this is when would this occur, pre arena? That would require him to call back during the party which I NEVER see happening, I could see Datu sulking somewhere or even drinking into unconsciousness. Datu had kids, he knows what it is to care for others, I just do not see it in him to commit virtual suicide by mauler. He could have seen the future with Sam, I don't see him just giving up HOPE on life that quickly...
(He was a depressive little ****er for a while there though..)
Pegs was on the road when she used that CB radio so was Kellie, so both have learned to use them.
Theory:
If you venture out or monitor those that leave the tower you could understandably understand the concept of CB Radios and their usage of them.
How many of you can use one right now, no hesitation, no learning required?
+1 here
Tommy sure, he could have called but then why?
Bill could have his own CB but I highly doubt that, we haven't learned or may not ever discover something that large.
Kellie doesn't seem one to call up INMATES, I mean PLEASE re-listen to the briefing on the Maulers she was like "JEEZ MIKE WAY TO SCARE THE WOMEN!" obviously she knows what they are like, and it seems like she doesn't want anything to do with them...
Besides your correct, she was first to start throwin chairs during the war.
Anyone who is throwing the first chair is fine in my book...
EDIT: Im actually looking to get a CB for my vehicle now, might prove useful down the road. Family back east uses em, but out here would be fun..
The problem I have with every other choice except datu is why? Datu is the only one with a reason. All the other options people cling to are characters people just hate. I have yet to hear a convincing reason for anyone else in the tower to do that.
I'm still open if you or anyone wants to convince me, but its going to have to provide a strong reason why. Bizarre or not, my reasoning for datu as the rat makes sense.
That seems easy enough.
Who would you like me to convince you of?
Kalani is a disliked character that I am trying to save from MOLE STATUS, he may have been part of the reason the Maulers showed up.
However, he did not steal anything from the tower krew. That would be physically impossible as he was away.
He was sober during the party.
He is a pilot and would know directions in relation to certain positions of the sun etc. (Despite what he keeps saying, I feel he should know about Tower2's location at least general direction in relation to LAX.)
He would know how to use a radio.
He would know how to find the radio in the tower, Angel showed him the ready room/guardroom if you will.
He was in the arena before Samantha, he may have come from Hawaii but he may have be removed from a the Maulers as well at some point.
Could he have lied and was actually picked up first by the Maulers and thus was kicked out to be saved by Tower2?
He could have been trying to turn T2 before it was raided by the Zedd, we could discover that him getting close and being useful is his cover...
Unlikely but possible considering the end of the world just occurred and all. We know Skittles was with Kalani at some point because he seemed to recognize him.
(I'm taking this as a sign that Skit actually knows him from Tower2, and is not a few fries short of a happy meal.)
I do not believe that Kalani did it at heart, but if I were to mistrust one character due to his questionable background it would be Kalani over Bill because Bill is confirmed by Datu's existence to be the owner of the building and just an all around ass.
=======
If you are to believe that Datu is responsible for attempting to KILL everyone in the tower I believe you are missing something key.
Even the end of 19-3 should prove my point.
HES A PUSS!
Hes happy when MPK returned, he was stoked to open the gate and he was BALLING OVER HOPE!
That doesn't sound like a man that just tried to throw it all away.
In fact with Liz gone now that might make her slightly more suspicious but the motive is nonexistent...
She love Saul, and seems to respect human life.
Ha!
-So because Kalani doesn't like to drink he's the rat? Perhaps he has a medical condition that makes it difficult for him to process alcohol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Muffins
-If you've never been to a big city, they can be confusing. If they were beating feet to get away from zombies at the airport, how do you begrudge them not knowing exactly where they are going? NYC is simple enough to figure out once you're above 14th street and the city becomes a grid. L.A. is not set up like that and it's a little more vast and sprawling with many side streets etc. If you're new, it would be very easy to get lost. Especially if you're watching your ass because it's about to get gnawed off.
-Yes he would know how to use a radio, but you're assuming he knew who the Mallers are. If he didn't know, he can't be the traitor. Datu would know where the radio is, is mechanically inclined and could find the Mallers knowing they are out there.
-Yes he could have been a captured Maller. But he also could be a captured Tower2 resident. There's no proof to the contrary, and he hasn't been proven to be a liar about anything else yet.
- Without knowing where Skittles originally came from, there's no way to know for certain why he thinks he recognizes Kalani. I agree Skittles knows him, but does Skittles know him from a mental institution? Was Skittles a member of the other Tower?
And you bring me full circle to my point for Datu: Datu has a motive. He's the only one that has a clear motive that is told in the story. If it comes out later that it was someone else, so be it. But with the information as it stands right now he's the only one that makes sense to me. And Datu did not try to kill everyone in the Tower. My original theory said "Suicide By Maller." He wanted to die. If my theory holds true, he wasn't thinking about the other residents, just himself.
19-3 proves nothing. 19-3 proves that Datu has moved onto the final stages of grieving. Go back and listen to Chapter 13. Tell me that isn't someone who is desperate. Tell me it's someone who hasn't made a radical shift from his normal personality into something different. You can't judge how he is now to how he was then. If that's the case, Kelly is still a bitch, Kalani is still a douche bag, and Pegs still doesn't shoot guns.
His attitude was in some ways self destructive during 13 yes.
But, he filled the gas cans against his better knowledge, he lowered them down and even did as he was told while he was grieving in respect to Burt and whatnot. 19-3 shows not just that he is in those final stages but that he is going to be looking forward to protecting his last shred of Hope. (Ha)
Because Kalani doesn't drink isn't the only reason he is suspicious, but how would he know about all these Supplies to the east when he is kissing up with Burt, even if he is just guessing he knows more than he is letting on about something. I can't think Datu is the mole because of his behavior, yes he is major depressed and seemly giving up on survival after watching his possible lover being ripped to shreds. Even after this he has the power to run out of the arena, he has to desire even on the brink of mental breakdown to keep pushing forward. Kalani mean while shows up, he is being screamed at by Mike, being told that the new tower has NO WEAPONS/AMMO/FOOD upon arrival. Then he has to deal with the fact that suddenly this new home of his is filled with partying ragoons who don't seem to be taking survival seriously.
I wouldn't take much for him to start looking for a way out either on the CB, or with someone physically like a Bill.
We should agree on atleast 1 thing Nik before we continue.
Was there more than 1 person involved in acting against the Tower? Was the food Bill and the CB call someone else?
I so feel like he woke up inside the arena and decided it was time to take control of his life (playing possum, getting close, then accomplishing his goals...)
Datu filled gas cans yes. He also kept saying their plans weren't going to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Muffins
I will never deny that Kalani's behavior is suspect. It is. 100% there are things about him that don't add up per se. My reaction to Kalani as the traitor is a reaction against people who just out and out hated him. I've always smelled red herring around both Kalani and Kelly because of how they acted in Season 1 and parts of Season 2. I completely understand why they are attractive choices for the Rat. If you took Datu out of the equation for me and made me choose between Kalani or Kelly, I'd choose Kalani.
As for how he could know about supplies to the East, he may have over heard something said in the other Tower. May or may not. Not saying he did, but that could be a reason how he knew. And as for your explanation as to why he would sell out the Tower, it is probably the most solid theory I've heard thus far for Kalani as the traitor.
And just to show you that I'm not entirely blinded by my theory, I'll throw another bone into the pit for the Kalani did it people: We started hating Kalani because he was a worthless lump. Now we like him because he assisted Angel and became a generally Ok guy. Now that we've gone on one roller coaster loop, Kc could send us on another one and turn Kalani once again into the ass hat so many people believe him to be. That would be a great piece of storytelling.
I posted in this massive thread somewhere about the comparison to the original Scream and how I actually had the bad guys figured out and then backed off it because there's never two killers in a slasher flick. So there very well could have been a second person involved. But if there is a second person involved, I wouldn't have the faintest idea who the second person would be (especially since we are all unable to come to a consensus as to who the one person could be). Personally, I'm leaning towards a lone gunman.
The food was obviously Bill. So was the ammo. But that's not the same as selling the Tower out. That was just hoarding for your own survival. I think whomever made the call worked independently of Bill because if the Traitor knew there was a mini stock pile of stuff no one else knew about but the traitor and Bill, they might have held off longer to make the call. Or of course, they could have presented it to their new overlord Durai and be treated like a King.
If you look around the board, I don't tend towards wild speculation. Datu is one of my only out there theories I'm holding onto. And I know the amount of crow I'm lining up to eat if I'm wrong. And when/if we find out who the traitor is, I will line up and take it.....or I'll go back and delete all my posts about it and dispatch the MIB to erase everyone's memory.
Again, I always felt Kalani/Kelly was way too easy to pin it on. I also think it doesn't fit Bill either. So if you eliminate them, it comes down to who would have a motivation to want to see a change. And I landed on Datu.
I am going to say who I think the rat/mole was.. I think it was precious Tommy. He was on watch. I think he was tired of his aunt's crap and acted out.
I don't think its so likely that the culprit will be a dead guy, why? same reason i stated before, because that's a terrible finale for the suspense. Tommy's allready dead, no one will care if we find out he's the mole. I'll eat my hat if the mole turns out to be one of the dead, or a random member of the tower.
Another reason tommy couldnt have done it is, that seems like a really petty reason for tommy go to the mallers. Tommy was just a really nice kid, he was an innocent victim of the war, his death weighs down on Michael, he's that constant reminder that war has serious consequences, and making tommy out to be the bad guy would ruin that.
((Nothing changes it is a terrible reason but a tragic one. He had opportunity and possible motive. Also remember Tommy was accused of theft and multiple members of the tower were down right nasty to him because of it. He was a kid.. Kids make mistakes and believe people who they shouldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra1th
Tommy, was a nice kid but he was naivete and as a kid prone to mistakes. Unfortunately if he was the rat.. he wasn't able to survive it and learn from it. Nothing changes about him if he was the rat.. He is still an innocent victim of war and the situation they are in and his death would be worse and by far more tragic. That part doesn't change. But the leader of the Mallers Mr Davri especially Mr Davri (hope I spelled that right) is very charming and has the potential to be very persuasive. It wouldn't be hard to listen to him and let him talk. Tommy as any young boy would vent and receive instant feed back and reassurances. Remember that Tommy was not getting alot of reassurances from his Aunt Kelly who had adopted the Tough Love mode of dealing with Tommy.
(trying to post with quotes is a pain in the tush)
Now, don't get me wrong, I really like Datu. Sure at first he was a bit annoying and hard to get along with but really after the whole Samantha thing, who couldn't feel bad for him.
But, let me ask you. Could Datu be a snitch...I dont have a whole lot of evidence to back it up, but he has always sort of kept to himself and he is just nice enough to be the kind of guy who wanted to "secure" himself some safety by making deals and what not.
There's my thought. Tear it apart or help me make a point.
tread carefully child, there is a monster round these parts by the name of nikvoodoo, and those who question his datu theory be his prey.Quote:
Originally Posted by itsallgoodie
hmm, I just read what he said and i have to say that is really the point I was trying to make. I support nikvoodoo. He and I are on the same page.
I'm glad to hear it! I don't know if I could take on a tag team against funny muffins and a partner.Quote:
Originally Posted by itsallgoodie
Don't worry though, I'm done arguing my point. I've made it, I've defended it, and its now up to kc to prove me right, or serve me my big ol' heaping pile of crow.
fair enough, we will all have to wait and find out. but we will all know soon enough. its great to talk to people about this though. ^_^Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
still leaning towards Kelly. she could be two faced or a plant and sell it all so nicely. I could be wrong too.
As much as it sucks i still think its Saul, he had previously been to prison, we dont know where but he does kinda hint at Eastern Bay. Im not really sure how he survived his first scouting mission seeing as the radio cut out. He also has always had a radio when the maulers seemed to be the biggest danger. Maybe he knew some of them and then when they caught him on the mission they saved him but made him be a scout. Idk just thoughts
Saul did not go to Eastern Bay for such a minute crime. As Burt says that place is for the worst of the worst.
right but mabey Saul didnt tell them everything
saul did tell them everything, he was caught for larceny. He wouldnt end up at a state penitentiary for such a crime, like burt said, eastern bay is a place for the worst of the worst. Saul's a brutally honest guy and he cant lie for shit.
It's lizzy, she's the rat!
That's why she got kicked out!!!
I'm so glad that since funny muffins and I went on a rampage last week, the number of Datu voters has doubled. Come on everyone! Join the dark side!
Hey, First off, I would just like to say, Hello!(Long time lurker, new poster) and if this is the wrong place for this, just delete it! :), I also apologise if this all has been said before.
Anyway, Angel, Why is he the rat?
Firstly, I want to discuss who he was before the "outbreak" : Angel was a month out of officer camp, probably eager to showcase his newfound command skills in the months after his training, however, the "outbreak" cut his chance to do this short, and he appeared to be in a ill-informed position when they were all called in (he didn't know why they were being called in, only that they needed to go). Also, Angel appeared to be a big supporter of the chain of command, wanting to wait for the commander before taking action to protect himself and Michael and Saul.
Secondly, I want to take a look at his actions during R&R and the War. Angel arrived late to the party, giving him time to go down, contact the maulers and tell them that the party was taking place, and that it would be a good time to attack the tower. Also, Angels decision to wear his uniform, was this to just look stylish? Or was it an attempt to make him recognisable so that the Mallers, most(I also believe that Scratch had a previous relationship with him) who wouldn't have seen him before? During the War, Angel appeared to be holding back, such as suggesting placing the Hummer against the door(an action that would seem logical(conservation of ammo)), but would also serve to keep some mallers alive(Burt would have just kept shooting).
The main motivation for me writing this post has been Chapter 20-1, which I believe showed evidence towards Angel being the rat. Firstly, when discussing the leadership of the tower, Angel appeared to be pretty annoyed that he wasn't even considered, this could be a sign of ongoing resentment towards the leadership of the tower, as I said before, Angel is a great believer in the chain of command, and as Angel outranked Michael before the "outbreak", he could have contacted the Mallers in an attempt to reestablish the chain of command, or as revenge against Micheal. The second piece of evidence in Chapter 20-1 was Angel's willingness to go back to bed rather than deal with the situation, and his excuse was kind of weak "I was exhausted", was he hoping Burt's decision to let Lizzy stay would cause a split in the tower, taking advantage of Michaels absence?
There are probably some things I missed, but I just wanted to write.
Edit : Sorry for the mistake in making a new thread!
My vote is on Kalani. His story doesn't add up. He said he landed in LAX, the map clearly shows that the pumping station and the strip mall is in the immediate area, I know we don't know the location of the other tower but it doesn't seem that the mallers would just allow a great place like the other tower go unwanted. Kalani also had guard duty the first day he was there, that gives him ample time to tell the mallers about the tower, the main people of the tower, and the theft. It would also explain why Durai didn't know Pegs. Kalani wouldn't have thought her an importance to the mallers. Kalani could have slipped into the guard room and radioed the mallers that the best option for attack was tonight, he then left the radio on channel 18 when he left. Kalani didn't fight the mallers and when the mallers were defeated he became a brown-noser to try and stay informed about the tower.
To conclude. Kalani is the rat. He is a smart maller. He eventually got scared and started brown-nosing Burt and Angel.
That's a solid theory, but here's my question to you: If Kalani is a maller, why didn't he radio them when he was in Maller territory? When they were in contact with Scratch about Latch's body, why not just shoot Angel and rejoin the rest of his Eastern Bay compatriots? He had a gun and he would certainly have the element of surprise. What is served by continuing to be in the Tower, which has been totally wrecked, and weak? If he was a Maller, the opportunity to turn on the Tower would have been right then when he was close to the Mallers and could easily rejoin.Quote:
Originally Posted by NJHellfire
Nik, Perhap Kalani is playing the long game? Devils Advocate.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Quite possibly. and that's all I'm doing with NJ's theory. I'm playing devil's advocate and making sure everyone thinks nice and hard ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by WestonWisdom
I don't see any benefit to playing a long game if Kalani is a Maller. If you shoot Angel dead, how does anyone even find out? Everyone in the Tower would just assume Angel and Kalani became Z-bait and Kalani goes home.
Kalani appears to be clever, at least, thats the the way I have interpreted him from the way he talks, if he foresaw a position where he could deliver the tower to the mallers, I presume he would work towards it?Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
But I really don't think he is a maller, the fact that he is clever kind of removes him from the Eastern Bay crew(Eastern Bay isn't full of people who cheated on their tax returns). I don't mean to say ex-cons aren't clever, my theory comes from the fact that Kalani's story has always seemed just crazy enough to be true in a zombie apocalypse.
I also presumed that people would probably go looking for them if they didn't come back, at least after Michael returned to power.