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Yes, Kelly's comment did sound ominous. Tanya and Saul's situation remind me accounts of people who just found out that they are H.I.V. positive. They have an incurable disease, may very well die from it, and people will be very afraid of them if they find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieWildfire
That's a tempting thought, and one of my crack-addled theories is that the bearded and tattooed zombie spotted by Victor during the attack on the Colony was Skittles, not Randy. However, I don't think they can be the same person. CJ knew both of them. She sent Randy to the water works and knew Duncan was on the security duty roster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlarken
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
i'm sorry, but all i could think of is this scene from South Park:
http://youtu.be/ctCmugiWVB0
http://youtu.be/ctCmugiWVB0
I thought I just put too much into it... But yeah, it sounds... creepy, for lack of better Word. I'm not sure I think she knows something, though... Besides, hasn't she always been just a bit negative? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieWildfire
Kelly is... Well, Kelly is Kelly!
Awww, that movie killed too many brain cells.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamKerringtonHi.
With Saul's fate, the "purpose" Burt has to serve, and finally the very good cooperation between both of them, who else sees potential for a tag-team-sacrifice in the final battle like Saul and Burt vs. Ink and Randy?
"No sacrifice, no glory." - the old Witwicky saying:
That's why it is is suitable to be quoted in the context of all things zombies ...Quote:
Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheek
Go hunting for a couple weeks and I start going through We're Alive withdrawals haha. I haven't gone back to read the forums for the last two episodes so sorry if this has all been brought up before.
I wonder what it is about Randy that has Michael so hard up to catch him and take him out, but also so secretive that he won't mention it to the others? I've been racking my brain and I just can't think of a scenario where he would need him dead but couldn't tell his team why it was so important to take him out and get them on his side.
I've never heard of Raydon Labs but I have heard of a company just called Raydon that is a contractor for military training. I believe they make simulators and training equipment for everything from how to use different weapon systems to tactics etc. Maybe this is a hat tip to that company and a hypothetical 'underground' division making some shady enhancement drugs for soldiers that goes a little haywire? :tinfoil:
Glad we are finally getting back to Tanya and Saul as slow-turners or immune or whatever the case may be. I am so interested in this story line, can't wait to see how this evolves. My bet is going to lead towards immunity of sorts. They were contacted by the disease or whatever causes people to turn, and they both started to turn but then stopped for some reason. My guess is as they continue to do blood tests they notice their levels aren't really rising anymore and that leads them to start looking at possibilities for a cure (not that I think they will find one, but it will be a wild goose chase for a cure)
Way to go KING DATU THE RESOURCEFUL for you upgraded potato gun :-) I have harped on the ammo issue for a while and I am glad to see them looking to other options. I don't understand why they are still so scared to tell CJ what they are doing? Could she really be blinded enough to not see they will run out of ammo and will need other options?
On that same note, with the fuel quickly disappearing, it is probably past time to start looking at alternative sources to power. How about making biodeisel from vegetable oil for a temporary fix? There has to be a ton of oil around I would imagine with all the restaurants using it for fryers and grocery stores having gallon jugs. As a more permanent fix they could have crews start collecting solar panels from homes to move to the colony. They mentioned they have some white pages, look up some solar and wind turbine companies and start setting up a stand alone grid within the colony maybe. Worse case scenario they could set up some homemade windmills to turn car alternators to recharge a grid of car batteries. That won't do much for very heavy equipment but it could power all the lights through the colony. With some power inverters it could also power fridges and freezers and medical equipment in the hospital etc. No fuel needed.
I need to go back and listen to the last few episodes and excited to go dig through the forum posts. It is getting more interesting and exciting every week now :-)
That is a good point about not telling CJ of their plans. Micheal is the same way but we can see his reason. Maybe she would think it's a waste of time or resources. Who knows. I wonder how many other things they keep from her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit9014
You would think that CJ, being the Dooms Day Prepper that she is, would have thought of these. I know I do. It would have been among the first on my list of things to do to get the Colony self reliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit9014
Maybe the time has come for some serious biomass gasification indeed...Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit9014
When doomsday hits, logistics is the problem. Biodiesel is made by reacting oil with sodium hydroxide. So, where are they going to get that? They would just be chasing another resource.
I still think that Michael's super journal is not about the zombie outbreak. It is about the characters he was with. Something goes down that really rocks his sanity even more so than TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It).
And here I am thinking that you discovered some sort of Aztec connection. O_oQuote:
Originally Posted by Grognaurd
Raydon Corporation is indeed a significant military contractor. They build weapons simulators and they make all of the convoy simulators that the Army uses. They're located in Florida. www.raydon.comQuote:
Originally Posted by Unit9014
Just to add to the fun, at this point in the story gasoline supplies are nearing the end of their shelf life. Gasoline breaks down and loses potency over time, eventually reaching a point where it just isn't volatile enough to power machines. Normal shelf life is up to one year, or up to two years if treated with chemical stabilizers. Diesel has a much longer shelf life, but it is also more susceptible to contamination from water, which forms in storage tanks through condensation. Bottom line, at some point all of the stored fuel in the WA universe will stop working so they need to start working on alternatives!Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit9014
Let's add some names and a radical idea: TMGG (The Matta-Gun Guy), Glenn, ingenuity and cold fusion. Think. Think again. And then pray that Datu did never see this video:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpiVyTYn0Sg
Btw, is the reactor (?) in this video just a prop ... what is Dennis doing during his retirement?
/sigh
Ah ah ah bulllllssshhhhnnnneeeese
The idea of Tanya and Saul turning keeps nagging at me, too. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooer
Agreed, like I said it would be a temporary fix, but as diesel becomes harder to find or starts to break down like you mention, then oil and sodium hydroxide may become easier to find than usable diesel fuel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognaurd
You can also convert diesel engines to run off straight vegetable oil, you do need to heat the tank to get the oil to the right temp, but it would be very doable even in a doomsday scenario with supplies that I'm sure could be found in LA... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D157-bJtY08&noredirect=1
Even with vegtable oil, consumption becomes a problem. A small diesel motor can run for quite a while on a small amount, but larger motors/machinery will require considerably more..thus defeating the purpose.
I've heard about this process; wasn't it fairly widespread in Germany during WWII? The hardware looks readily accessible, and the fuel supply is literally springing up all over at this point in the story. I wouldn't want to have outrun a behemoth in one of these, but it sure beats walking!Quote:
Originally Posted by YetAnotherBloodyCheekMaybe the time has come for some serious biomass gasification indeed...
That's correct and there had been attempts of coal liquefaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch
I don't expect to hear from them earlier than #40 if not #41 ... But I may be wrong. And I hope I am, because I am SO CURIOUS about what is going on with them ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit9014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0YWRXJsMyM
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Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
Holy mother of Mary - and some other guy... I don't remember. Biology class was so long ago... and I only took Bio-I in High School. This is some serious collegiate level Biology/BioChem action here. Sincere apologies to those of you who may read this who are Biologists and Biochemists by training and trade, but let me see if I can unpack this...Quote:
Originally Posted by cupcakezombie
Let me start from the top down:
(Sections in italics are direct copy/paste quotes taken right from the wiki.)
- Animals are multicellular, eukaryotic organisms of the kingdom Animalia or Metazoa. Cells that make up animals are metazoan cells and inside the cells is a:
- Cytoskeleton. "The cytoskeleton (also CSK) is a cellular scaffolding or skeleton contained within a cell's cytoplasm... It forms structures such as flagella, cilia and lamellipodia and plays important roles in both intracellular transport (the movement of vesicles and organelles, for example) and cellular division... The cytoskeleton provides the cell with structure and shape" The cytoskeleton is comprised of several things, including:
- Intermediate filaments. "Intermediate filaments (IFs) are cytoskeletal components found in metazoan cells." There are two types present, Type 1 and Type II. Type I is comprised of:
- Type I keratin. "Type I keratins (or Type I cytokeratins) constitutes the Type I intermediate filaments (IFs) of the intracytoplasmatic cytoskeleton, which is present in all mammalian epithelial cells. Most of the type I keratins consist of acidic, low molecular weight proteins." Among the Type I keratins is:
- Keratin 18. "Keratin 18 is a type I cytokeratin. It is, together with its filament partner keratin 8, perhaps the most commonly found products of the intermediate filament gene family. They are expressed in single layer epithelial tissues of the body." Epithelial tissues or;
- Epithelium, is one of the four basic types of animal tissue, along with connective tissue, muscle tissue and nervous tissue. Epithelial tissues line the cavities and surfaces of structures throughout the body, and also form many glands. The primary functions of epithelial tissues are: (1) to protect the tissues that lie beneath it from radiation, desiccation, toxins, invasion by pathogens, and physical trauma; (2) the regulation and exchange of chemicals between the underlying tissues and a body cavity; (3) the secretion of hormones into the blood vascular system, and/or the secretion of sweat, mucus, enzymes, and other products that are delivered by ducts glandular epithelium; (4) to provide sensation.
You got it right, cupcakezombie. I was wrong about my initial assumptions. The K18 isn't a byproduct of the growth, it IS the growth. What ever it is that is causing the "zombification," it radically changes the structure of the human body right down to (at least) the sub cellular level:
- Body morphology, as seen with the differing forms of infected at the outset of the story.
- Glandular and hormonal, as seen with the salivating infected during the sweat jar experiment.
- Glandular with the salivary glands used to spread the infection...
- "Invasion by pathogens," changing the susceptibility of infection, possibly explaining the extreme speed at which the victims succumbed and a reason why the very thing that may have sparked the change, the Inglewood Haze, is also now toxic to them.
- Behavioral changes with altered adrenal glands and radically changed hormones... resulting in obscene animalistic rage, aggression and hunger.
- Body morphology also affected by hormones. Tanya states (I believe) "under developed" secondary sexual characteristics in a female specimen... I do believe that a side effect of increased testosterone in women, e.g.: women bodybuilders taking male HGH and/or testosterone, is breast tissue shrinks.
It is probably obvious with the existence of the special infected, but it bears saying that these things aren't just humans with a fever rage. For all appearances, these creatures seem to have been rebuilt at the cellular level into something new... they look mostly human-ish but they most certainly are NOT. Not anymore.
7oddisdead, back to your question, where does the K18 go? I see three possibilities, the first being that K18 as a cellular building block gets used up at the tail end of the "turning." Second, the blood gets processed by the kidneys and K18 and its byproducts are eliminated in urine. Third: at the core of it, K18 is protein which is also processed by the liver.
Now, I have heard stories of extreme body builders suffering liver failure. Protein toxicity can also cause kidney failure. We have also learned that K18 is (apparently) a testable marker for cancer. I'll bet that's what is killing the behemoths. Because they are so large, it is reasonable to assume that their K18 spike during turning was significantly higher which led to inevitable kidney & liver failure, cirrhosis and cancer.
Homework for Tanya: examine the pathology of the liver and get a urine sample(s) of a turner. Check the results for indicators of kidney failure.
Which leads into another theory, the one of Saul and Tanya's perceived "immunity." Just want to add this one to the stuff we are already throwing at the wall...
Since they now seem to be testing Z+, my previous Anthrax/Smallpox vaccine cocktail seems to have been falsified. Saul and Tanya might have a genetic disposition to develop cancer and due to that particular gene sequence mutation, it prevents the changes from occurring due to the connection that K18 has with cancer.
Don't forget the acne. Angel pointed that out too. I do believe that acne is also a side effect of steroid use as well as ordinary growth (hormonal changes of puberty). With what I mention above with the baseline of the physiological changes of "zombification," you have the possibility for radical hormonal changes coupled with the possibility of what is taking place in TOWTM's workshop of horrors with a drug/steroid/haze essence cocktail. My theories on that here and here.Quote:
Originally Posted by scbubba
Agreed. I was a little surprised by the direction they took with the 24th Chromosome... I was expecting the Jump Gate (to hell) that was probably inspired by Stephen King's "The Jaunt." Then again, Event Horizon kinda got the jump on them with the Hyperspace Is a Scary Place theme.Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
I seem to recall he mentioned Libraries and Hospitals... or was more likely stated as the Book and Doctor places, then the "Brain Places."Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlarken
Alright, time to hit send. I have more thoughts but that will have to wait until tomorrow night. On Halloween... dun dun DUN!
firstly, the jaunt and event horizon are probly my two favorite sci fi pieces...without a doubt. that said....Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Shirt
wow, son. you get an A+ on your assignment. I cut to the bits I found the most interesting. it would seem we can pinpoint our searches into the "internal changes" to the liver and kidneys. what makes me so sure about those? well, lets explore the thyroid system.
https://www.google.com/#q=thyroid%20physiology
a ton of interesting reading in there. I simply went with the google search in this case because it would fill nearly an entire page to take notes of all the references. I believe the most important bits I took from this search is the thyroid gland essentially feeds the liver and kidneys. the t3 and t4 production from the thyroid feeds not only the liver and kidneys, but the hypothalamus and pituitary gland...quite interesting stuff...DAMN YOU KC, I HATED THIS STUFF IN HIGH SCHOOL....NOW I LIKE IT. YOUR A JERK :)
going further down the rabbithole...we could search for this.
http://jcs.biologists.org/content/110/1/23.full.pdf
that one,admittedly..is a shit ton of science stuff to get through. but it also vaguely wraps its way around what could cause K18 levels to increase and decrease. its also a billion light years over my head/pay grade...I don't analyse what I don't understand, I simply present and point in a general direction...theory team, go!!(guys is it wrong that I think of myself as the "think tank" and you guys as the executioners? can't help it...I do)
back on track. I like your explanation of where the k18's go, red. particularly the idea of the keratins used as a building block for whatever changes are taking place. the fun part of this idea is THERE'S NO LEGIT SCIENCE-Y WAY TO PROVE IT. is there?
I suppose that's the one thing we all should keep in mind. at some point this part of the story (the science of zombies) MUST go from science fact, to science fiction. but at what point does that happen? how many different avenues of the "k18 quandary" can we explore before we get to the shit KC has just made up? how many unknown variables must we plug in and "solve for x" before we reach a point where we are giving other writers ideas? I don't know. I do know however, this has been quite fun...hopefully it continues to be.
have fun...or else
todd out
fuck it...im up and the noodle is firing..the stream of consciousness time.
I forgot to mention in my first post, good thinking on the kidney failure red. if what we are thinking here is correct, the basic function of the kidneys should be mostly nonexsistant. so kidney failure would be evident, as they have likely been assimilated to divert function to both the hypothalamus and liver. man, I would lave to at least have a hint as to what Tanya found internally in wendy...this shit really is fascinating.
so with the ideas of thyroid gland in mind, lets explore the metabolism of the biter. have we been given any indication of how the bodily functions of our zombies work? by that I am of course referring to shit and piss. (or to be more p.c. poop and pee. heh... "pee"). the way the human body processes its intake is fairly well understood by most of us. a good diet yields good physical fitness in most of us, a bad one? well, I think we all know of what that can cause. now, knowing that the thyroid controls the way our bodies process the intake of "raw goods"(dictating what goes where, the engery used to process, and the energy expelled from its processing)..would it not stand to reason that the intake of a 100% protein diet (ie: human flesh) would throw the metabolism and susquently the entire body into some sort of "abandon all ships" state? internal changes to the structure by which the body processes incoming material would have to see a subnificant change to acommidate for this. does the body change the entire way it structures its internal functions or simply swap out to a different form of metabolizing proteins? just think if all you ate was red meat, how would your body react?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/12/health...rten-lifespan/
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/daily...olic.syndrome/
now,of course those two studies are in us common humans. but how would those studies change if we actually plugged in the idea of a "zombie"?
to me, this entire idea of the K18 increase triggering a change within the body is simply establiching a change within the body to accomidate for the dietary change of one subsisting on nothing but protein and h20 (and iron, and....well, the other bits found in meat).
now, the fun stuff. red shirt brought up the idea of basic "protein poisoning" among body builders. that, coupled with the tumors, coupled with the keratin level increases....well, it just confirms our suspicions. be it steroids or hgh...I think we have this one on lock. next on the agenda little ones.
how much you want to bet the little ones, if they ever were in fact human...had their keratin levels remain intact, or even raised post-turning? ill bet a four pack of this http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/423/39621 that's the case. (damn, I need to learn to hyper link)
this episode of brain farting brought to you by "the sixth glass"
again, have fun...or else
todd-o
Wow! Poor old Witch Doctor's head is spinning (like Reagan's). This is a far cry from tea leaves, chicken bones and puffer fish. Gonna take me a while to go through this.
A resupply node for an amphibious assault carrier would have them sitting prettyQuote:
Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch
Hi.
I liked your wall of words, although I did not read them. But sure as hell they are great.
Big question:
Since Kelly is involved in the theoretical paperwork, and since Kelly is able to "read" other people (she knew something was fishy about Amy back right before Marcus was overthrown ...), what does she know about the 'numbers' related to Tanya and Saul? What are her conclusions? Will she be silent about it, or will she accidentally or purposefully start any rumors about them?
Best wishes!
Liam
KC had some ominous music there, also. I do not quite understand it. "Good Luck!" Seems right, but in my slang, "With That" is usually a sarcastic tag. Is she insulting military intelligence, again?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieWildfire
She thought journals to figure out what is going on with the outbreak were a waste of time. Michael with Lizzy's help overruled her in Season 1
In season 4, she says a lot of similar stuff.
The army comedy duo is not the brightest bunch and You need my thinking skills to Michael
Maybe that is why I am here (Tanya may have missed something)
Her argument with Victor behind the door
We have all been there and seen the science of science fiction FAIL...Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
THIS IS NOT THAT DAY!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXGUNvIFTQw&feature
So, I looked around the internets and found that we're not the first to have a discussion on zombies and keratin. Here is a link from June, 2009. http://armorgames.com/community/thre...e-144/page/318
I think it is a gamer site. The first post about keratin is the last on the page, and continues onto the next page. It doesn't get very far into the science as RedGrog7odd does, (seriously? My spell checker didn't flag RedGrog7odd?) but the suggestion was brought up by a biology student at Yale.
I was trying to see if there was any source or theories that KC could have gotten ideas from.
Anyway, whatever this cryptogenic disease is, it only effects human biology.
Did Tanya include the tests she ran on her blood or Saul's blood in the notes/journals? I didn't hear it stated that she did. I'm also getting a stronger and stronger itch at the base of my skull the more I think that Tanya has not done any journaling that we know of.....Quote:
Originally Posted by LiamKerrington
Her statement does sound a little creepy but on later listening I attribute it to her overdeveloped cynicism and sarcasm. Like she's saying "That's a big f'n effort and I'm glad I'm not involved" or "I don't think that's got a chance in hell of succeeding".Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognaurd
But then, I've been wrong about Kelly before...
very good point. She did have a lot to hide/mask/shield about, but she was mainly in charge of cataloging and research, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by scbubba
i want to and don't want to read into the fact that i haven't hear a journal entry from her. it may just be that her entries are not needed or using an outsider's perspective (like Robbins) is a better fit for stroytelling?
I don't know, Michael has become a bit of a pushover to CJ lately. We all want the strong, leader Michael to come out to his friends defense, but if CJ throws out that Saul and Tanya would need to be exiled for their own protection; to keep the other colony members from killing them just to be sure and for their own safety, Michael will nod his head in agreement and get back in line.Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper
I don't feel the same fight in Michael like he used to have.
That's exactly my question. Does Tanya only work on the journal-material? Or is she - to a certain degree - involved in more paperwork. Although some dispute this, lawyers are in the end academics and thus skilled in working with scientific methods. So I ask, if Tanya uses this potential or keeps it totally under her control?Quote:
Originally Posted by scbubba
Thanks goes everybody for the HUGE support of my research and my throwing of ideas at walls.
Now, with my "inbox" asploding when I log in to the desktop site, I've noticed that I have killed a jumper, (yay me!) I'm a "Hoarder" now and I'm Loved to Death. Cool.
Now, for a moment I'd like to shift gears and talk about a few other things:
The first is the ammo situation. It has been discussed here on the boards, on We're Not Dead, and more recently on the WND Fan Cast with the situation now being directly addressed in show. Mick & Red, you discussed the issues with making your own powder, a non-trivial issue. What about the Naval Station? It has the potential to solve many current problems. Probably plenty of small arms and its ammo, more hummers (all you gotta do is jump them off), probably some fuel... hell, if they are lucky they could even stumble on a truck mounted Phalanx. (Though I'll readily admit that one falls squarely in the Deus Ex Machina category.)
Barring all of that if it turns out to be a bust, there is still one thing they may find to be useful. Shells for large naval guns, maybe powder bags. Attempting to "open" a five inch shell for a naval gun is, frankly, a stupid idea. I'd rather try to cut open a 16 inch gun powder bag. May not be exactly the type of powder needed but with a stash of those... well, powder until the end of time. Now, the last of the Iowa class were stricken from the Naval Vessel Register on March 17th, 2006, but the USS Iowa was retained in the Reserve Fleet until October of 2011. It stands to reason that the navy was maintaining a reserve supply of munitions for the big guns.
Now, about the fuel. I gotta ask, is the colony just too far to go back to the tank farm?
That's enough for now, but as a parting shot I'll leave you with this. From the Science news segment of the Skeptic's Guide of the Universe, episode #432 October 26th 2013, (@8:20) they discus a recent development in antibiotics called PPMO's or peptide-conjugated phosphorodiamidate morpholino oligomer. Gesundheit. Current antibiotics fall into two categories: bactericidal which kill bacteria and bacteriostatic which prevent them from reproducing. Both function by disrupting cellular function. PPMO's may become a third class of antibiotics.
PPMO's have been found to be in many cases far more effective than existing antibiotics and found effective against resistant bacteria. PPMO's can also be used to treat genetic diseases.Quote:
PPMO's are a synthetic analog of DNA or RNA that has the ability to silence the expression of specific genes. Compared to conventional antibiotics, which are often found in nature, PPMOs are completely synthesized in the laboratory with a specific genetic target in mind.
SGU Episode
Article
Precision targeted gene suppression. What could possibly go wrong?
Sounds like something a particular pharmaceutical company might have been interested in. :tinfoil:
Every morning I think people "like" me with like alerts.
love the sgu, that piece on ppmo's was really interesting....shit I'd love to get a novella bros take on whats happening in this story. People think WE post over-the-top craziness...
