Chapter 39-3 Chemical Reactions

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Originally Posted by dontkillburt

So the zombies are on PED's? Great news (and comes with a automatic 50-game suspension according to Major League Baseball). We should see some home run records fall this season.

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Good, I was getting tired of them chasing me back to the Colony. :D

Really great episode, could not sit still listening to it. Great suspense, really comes close to the first few episodes of season 1. Also it keeps amazing me that so much research (or KC really has a brain the size of wikipedia) has been done for this show... i wish they would do that more often on tv shows and movies..

Oh and lets not forget those cgi special effects, there aint no movie that has such great special effects! Everthing looks the way I would think it would be, and it looks great! Atleast in my brain it does :)

"There's nothing here but butt cream." That might be my favorite quote of the entire show.

does any one know who, "William Issac Roberts" is ?

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Originally Posted by Kc

I liked the halo reference. That is, pre #4.

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Oddly enough, I head it from someone in the military before that movie came out. I think it was in engineering school or from a Drill Sergeant. Anyway...

Back to the "attention" thing. As we get into the last season there will inevitably be people who get some things right and wrong, but eventually you'll all figure it out. I wouldn't use me as a guide whether someone is right or wrong by a like. :)

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Can you say if anyone up to this point has gotten anything right that you've seen? Don't have to say who or what. Just curious if you've had any, "wow, am I being transparent..." moments.

I think the scariest thing is how the evolution of the Little Ones is now copying characteristics of the characters on We're Alive. The one that died at Raydon Labs attacked in a fashion that seemed to be modeled on how Saul and Victor fought the Behemoth in 25-1, and it was described as having grown very wide, which was clearly an homage to SPC Anthony Robbins.

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Originally Posted by Hoff4D

Replying to your post because it sparked this thought in me...

Dr. William I Roberts was a genius, predicted the Earth fighting back against humanity in a mass biological attack (the haze) and decided to try and adapt humanity to survive it rather than prevent it, as he deemed it impossible. He began testing these chemicals on humans to get them impervious to what he predicted would be the viral outbreak from Earth on humanity (The normal ones being caused by the haze, or bitten by that of a haze stricken individual). His tests resulted in several deaths, he was arrested, stripped of his credentials (no long Dr.) but he was driven mad by his passion and kept his theories going in prison, the only way to keep them forever, to tattoo himself. So he drew all his conclusions on his own skin, and when broke out he kicked his 'tests' into overdrive since the haze already had been globally emitted by mother nature (read: testing in Devil's workshop). Earth's virus to rid her of humanity was one of self-depreciation....causing us to each other. Dr. William I Roberts decided to counter act the spread by giving everyone a small amount of the virus (prevents the normals from spreading it to his subjects, much like an immunization except not 100% dead injection), thus the normals leave us alone, and he juiced up the vaccine so we remain species supreme on planet earth (Inklings/ADLOs). Honestly folks, he's here to help us.

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Bulletproof monk meets the happening meets Dr M..something..

I'm sure it was said in 39-1 forums (haven't had a chance to go back and review), but did anyone else notice in 39-1 they "smelled something" before being apparently ambushed, and the same thing here in 39-3? They haven't done much describing of the smell, just that they smell SOMEthing.

Michael: "March 1st, 2010: Our first big break, after months of searching we finally found something, or to be more accurate, something found us....."

Perhaps the Zeds are doing the same thing we are with KODI? We put out sweat jars, they put out.....drool jars?


It's likely that the zeds just leave a particular smell behind and that's what we're finding, as I don't know why they'd LURE us into Raydon to discover their secrets, but still.....mulling this one over

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

I think the scariest thing is how the evolution of the Little Ones is now copying characteristics of the characters on We're Alive. The one that died at Raydon Labs attacked in a fashion that seemed to be modeled on how Saul and Victor fought the Behemoth in 25-1, and it was described as having grown very wide, which was clearly an homage to SPC Anthony Robbins.

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Pod people. They're becoming us, just....super-us

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Originally Posted by Hoff4D

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Quote Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor
I think I want to fold too. For now at least. The surprises are too awesome anyway.

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I have read exactly ZERO forums in the last 3 weeks, almost ready to come back and bounce awesome theories off you guys and you're gonna throw in the towel NOW?!.....ouch man, ouch

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Yeah man, you're right. Not gonna panic, and I know where my towel is. Attachment 2763

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Originally Posted by UndeadSweeper

Because he so slow it obvious that he would be surrounded by the ladies, zombies. They like their meal with meat on the bone. :cool:

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Touche my friend, touché

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Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch

I think the scariest thing is how the evolution of the Little Ones is now copying characteristics of the characters on We're Alive. The one that died at Raydon Labs attacked in a fashion that seemed to be modeled on how Saul and Victor fought the Behemoth in 25-1, and it was described as having grown very wide, which was clearly an homage to SPC Anthony Robbins.

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I was think the same. Maybe we called these Robbie?

Hi my first post just want to add to the discussion:

For those saying Bill Roberts can't William Roberts because they didn't refer to him as Dr. in the news report, I wouldn't rule it out just yet, Conrad Murray hhat link is to an article on Conrad Murray while the article may mention he is/was a doctor the headline doesn't, and in this case his being a Doctor has direct relevance to his case, in William Roberts case him being a psychopath not so much to do with him being a doctor. So I think we can hold off on making that the deciding factor.

Also Follistatin is found in high concentration in human skin maybe they are dying off because they are losing Follistatin, it could why they try to eat humans, if they can't find humans each other (less follistatin then a human, but better than nothing), or if they can a nice refreshing bottle of Follistatin. It could also explain why sweat which comes out through pores in the skin is so attractive to them, it's like smelling food form a nearby restaurant when you're starving.

Just my thoughts on what's happening.

Well damn, it looks like I went and caught the research bug.
I've been looking into myostatin and the first thing that comes up are articles and forum posts related to bodybuilding. Specifically all of this is related to inhibiting and/or blocking myostatin in order to promote muscle growth. There's also an abundance of supplements out there that claim to inhibit myostatin (though most of them appear to be either outright bogus or, at most, have a very minor effect).
Myostatin inhibition also appears to be something being explored to combat muscle atrophy from conditions like muscular dystrophy and cachexia (the severe weight and muscle loss suffered by people with AIDS, cancer, etc.)
So there seems to be a lot of research going on to inhibit myostatin (follistatin is one of the inhibitors being explored, by the way) but I can't seem to find any research revolving around promoting it. But I'm definitely starting to feel like finding a way to promote myostatin is going to be key in beating whatever Dr. Ink is up to.

The role of myostatin in muscle wasting.

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Originally Posted by mischeif

Hi my first post just want to add to the discussion:

For those saying Bill Roberts can't William Roberts because they didn't refer to him as Dr. in the news report, I wouldn't rule it out just yet, Conrad Murray hhat link is to an article on Conrad Murray while the article may mention he is/was a doctor the headline doesn't, and in this case his being a Doctor has direct relevance to his case, in William Roberts case him being a psychopath not so much to do with him being a doctor. So I think we can hold off on making that the deciding factor.

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Also, William Isaac Roberts - Bill 'Ink' Roberts, doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.

Well...ill just drop this.http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Effect.....-a0195919167

As far as Ink's roll in the outbreak, Puck sums up my thoughts the best, "In the back of my head I was thinking this place had something to do with all, you know? But we're nowhere near ground zero."
I don't think that Ink is responsible for the outbreak; at least it seems unlikely that he would be such. The info we have says that it's geological and the special Zs are a product of other factors e.g. something at Raydon Labs and ground zero itself (Kalani's account states that strange creatures were coming from there.)

What gets me is, what does Bill 'Ink' know and when did he know it. At this point all sort of theories that I've read in the forums jump out all at once.

• Is Ink some sort of mastermind creating the special zombies?
• Is he an intelligent zombie with a trace of human decency who is actually trying to find a cure?
• Did he know about or start the outbreak?
• Is he part of a doomsday cult?
• Are there more than one person that fits his description?
• Is he even turned?

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Originally Posted by HardKor

Well damn, it looks like I went and caught the research bug.
I've been looking into myostatin and the first thing that comes up are articles and forum posts related to bodybuilding. Specifically all of this is related to inhibiting and/or blocking myostatin in order to promote muscle growth. There's also an abundance of supplements out there that claim to inhibit myostatin (though most of them appear to be either outright bogus or, at most, have a very minor effect).
Myostatin inhibition also appears to be something being explored to combat muscle atrophy from conditions like muscular dystrophy and cachexia (the severe weight and muscle loss suffered by people with AIDS, cancer, etc.)
So there seems to be a lot of research going on to inhibit myostatin (follistatin is one of the inhibitors being explored, by the way) but I can't seem to find any research revolving around promoting it. But I'm definitely starting to feel like finding a way to promote myostatin is going to be key in beating whatever Dr. Ink is up to.

The role of myostatin in muscle wasting.

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I noticed that everyone keep said that this use to cure this or cure that. Could the infected be people who have a cancer or similar illness? Now that I think about it, Kelly's nephew had something and was a quick turner. The reason why it spreading so easily is that Raydon is a pill company that Bill tamper with a batch that cause the outbreak. And the gases at Englewood could the result of the company trying to ridden of chemical as quick as possible but it when horrible wrong. The reason that some the zombie are dying is because of the tumors and cancer that gone out control.

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Originally Posted by 7oddisdead

Well...ill just drop this.http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Effect.....-a0195919167

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Glad to have you back. I hope my crow feast did not contribute to it. I still think formic acid is important. Randy, most likely, spread some out on the floor. The soldiers open the cargo doors letting the smell out and guess who shows up to spring the trap?

Thyroid, eh? Ripping out the throat to eat the thyroid? :tinfoil:

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Originally Posted by Grognaurd

Glad to have you back. I hope my crow feast did not contribute to it. I still think formic acid is important. Randy, most likely, spread some out on the floor. The soldiers open the cargo doors letting the smell out and guess who shows up to spring the trap?

Thyroid, eh? Ripping out the throat to eat the thyroid? :tinfoil:

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I'll continue with the csi stuff...any raydon/ink/g.zero talk I wanna stay away from. (at least in the chapter threads). And yea, I'll put together my forensic report tonight when I'm actually at a computer...but all this can be put together nicely...i think we have all the legit info we need to put a bow on this thing.

This was, in my opinion, the best scored entry in the WA canon. I felt the tension in my chest the whole episode.

Looks like my support of inklings was a better choice of advanced little ones since they aren't little anymore!

I had the absolute elation filled moment similar to when Harry Potter read the note from R.A.B. when they entered the office. I nearly giggled out loud like a school aged child on my train ride.

It's been a very very long while since I've truly cursed Kc for leaving such a wicked cliff hanger... But damn you!!

I still think Randy is a good guy. Let's not forget, we still don't know Randy and Michael's history. Maybe Randy is leading Michael to evidence/the truth?

So, Raydon Labs is in Vernon, California, just not of Bell and Bandini Blvd cuts right through it. "Turn left on Bandini..." Angel tells Saul as he drives to Cindy's apartment AKA The Tower on Z-day.
I was hoping that Downey Rd (mentioned as the placed on the small piece of paper.) would be in Inglewood.

Attachment 2764

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Originally Posted by pmchawk

Can you say if anyone up to this point has gotten anything right that you've seen? Don't have to say who or what. Just curious if you've had any, "wow, am I being transparent..." moments.

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There's been at least someone close to one fact at least once each episode, but then in the same post they can still be wrong about other things. No one is 100% right, but there are people that have something correct here and there, but it's never always the same person.

I'm actually glad to see that at least as we get closer to the end people are figuring out some things. That, to me, means that the answers actually make sense and aren't LOST. ;)

Can't go one post without a jab at them...pin:)

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

It's been a very very long while since I've truly cursed Kc for leaving such a wicked cliff hanger... But damn you!!

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:flowerpot:

Yea, Saul was so close with the flying Squid. Victor laughed at him and Saul backed off not realizing that the squid was actually Cthulhu.

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Originally Posted by Kc

There's been at least someone close to one fact at least once each episode, but then in the same post they can still be wrong about other things. No one is 100% right, but there are people that have something correct here and there, but it's never always the same person.

I'm actually glad to see that at least as we get closer to the end people are figuring out some things. That, to me, means that the answers actually make sense and aren't LOST. ;)

Can't go one post without a jab at them...pin:)

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I think I can speak for most of us in saying we don't actually want to be right 100%. Part of the fun, for me at least, is the research and creative thinking behind piecing the clues together. The closer we get to answers though, the less I want to post ideas....id rather sprinkle thoughts and have other members of the community put things together and get that "ah-HA! That's it!" moment...such a good feeling.

and are we really still on the LOST hate? Let it go man, let it go...;)

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Originally Posted by Grognaurd

Yea, Saul was so close with the flying Squid. Victor laughed at him and Saul backed off not realizing that the squid was actually Cthulhu.

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cthulhu fh'tagn Ai!ai!

I am wondering what the chemicals were all over the floor and if they ate the rubber tires on the truck or melted them. Cause I do not know what could eat rubber other then some hefty solvent but it would take something off the wall, maybe something that was generating a lot of heat cause it was reacting with each other but still. Most hefty chlorinated solvents like Dichloromethane (Methylene Chloride) will eat it but takes time. Used it before to remove seals off car parts.. Nitric might do it but ferrous metals would get attacked first. I do have some what of a back ground with this stuff. I have worked for a waste disposal company for 11 yrs. Still do and mainly do plastic recycling now. Still handle some Haz Mat.. Ran into all sorts of nasty when I went to do some on site lab packs and plant clean outs/closures... Its crazy how so really nasty shit is used to make every day items you use.

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Originally Posted by nikvoodoo

I had the absolute elation filled moment similar to when Harry Potter read the note from R.A.B. when they entered the office. I nearly giggled out loud like a school aged child on my train ride.

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Well... I did giggle. Lol! Okay, maybe it was more the laugh of a madman, but still... Fortunately I was at my home, so nobody heard it.... Okay, I was on Skype too, but...
Ahh, never mind! ... Why have all the episodes from 39 made me so damned excited? Not fair, people think I'm mad.

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Originally Posted by Grognaurd

Yea, Saul was so close with the flying Squid. Victor laughed at him and Saul backed off not realizing that the squid was actually Cthulhu.

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Iæh! Iæh! Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fh'tagn!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxScTbIUvoA

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Originally Posted by tskt4lent

does any one know who, "William Issac Roberts" is ?

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Bill Roberts was the name of the serial killer from the DVR recording played by Lizzy in the original tower, wasn't it? William Isaac Roberts aka Bill Roberts?

Haven't been here to post in a loooong time, this episode had me pumped.

Correct Jordan!

This episode was great, lotta action, and I'll be honest, had the chills when I heard his name read in the office.

I said he was behind it. Nik poo-pooed it.

Hey everyone,

apologies again for not participating as much as id like to the last few weeks, however my time has been spent moving home, much like Hoff4D i see. Lol.

Only able to briefly look through forums on my phone whilst performing ones ablutions, but i digress.

fantastic episode. And excellent placement of all the growth hormones. Hmmm it was absolutely nothing to do with formic acid formaldehyde or form amine. Who'da thunk it?

i don't think it was Puck that said the rocket surgery comment, i think it was the other guy that was on the 50 cal right? Not 100%, i may need to relisten.

i believe our next chapter may depart from the Ateam here (Michael & co, exploring the wasteland. Trying to redeem themselves for a crime they did not commit, if you're in trouble and you need someone to call, better call Saul, i mean the A-team). (conversation trails off in to badly sung versions of iconic 80s Saturday morning tv shows) where was i? Oh yes... I think the next chapter we're in for the adventures of burt and riley. The post apocalyptic odd couple. A sitcom in the making.

now, to catch up on we're not dead..

follistatin and keratin 18 on Google Scholar: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...&as_sdt=0%2C39
follistatin and keratin 18 on PubMed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...2keratin+18%22

somatropin and keratin 18 on Google Scholar: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl...%2C39&as_sdtp=
somatropin and keratin 18 on PubMed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...2keratin+18%22

Hopefully those help someone with more time than I figure out a few things. :)

Life has been keeping me rather busy too, but couldn't resist procrastinating some of the work to take a quick look at the follistatin info. It seems like follistatin could explain several of the features of the little ones. The one that Tanya autopsied had diminished secondary sex characteristics, and follistatin plays a role in suppressing FSH which is important for women to show the effects of puberty.

Follistatin also looks like it could be responsible, at least partially, for the tumor-riddled appearance that was mentioned. It's involved in cellular differentiation, and anytime you have a pathway where cellular growth or cellular differentiation is unchecked, you increase the risk for cancer. Also, since differentiation pathways would probably be more involved with high levels of follistatin, you would have lower-grade tumors. Lower-grade tumors don't generally metastasize as easily (exceptions always possible) which means it's not a perfect match for the "riddled" appearance. On the flip side, a lower grade generally means a better prognosis, so if the end goal is to find a cure, it may be possible to nip those sorts of tumor in the bud early in the changing process.

*tin foil hat* if you can cause a zombie cancer to go into remission, is it just a matter of time (5-10 years) before you start seeing recurrences??

Back to work for me!

That epic action music gives me the chills. It was played this episode when they're shooting the Inkling with the .50 cal, and in the season 3 finale when Michael and company fly in to the rescue of the Colony-folk. I thought it was awesome that it got played again for a suitably epic moment.

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Originally Posted by HardKor

2. Dr. William Issac Roberts: Alright! So Bill Roberts, the tattoo covered sociopath mentioned in chapter 2 and widely believe to be The One With the Markings, is a doctor/researchers at a pharmecutical company...wait WHAT? Footbutt hit this one on the nose, how many people covered in tattoos get hired as medical researchers? So unless this is another Bill Roberts we're talking about (maybe a relative, using his psychotic family member as a guinea pig?), I'm thinking the tattoos came after his arrest.
Also in the newscast back in chapter 2, Roberts was referred to as just Bill Roberts, and not Dr. William (or Bill) Roberts. So here's my guess, ol' Dr. Ink was cooking something nasty in his lab and got caught doing it. Ethics violations and police inquiries follow and pretty soon Dr. Ink is sitting in a jail cell slowly loosing his connection to reality. He rigs himself up a nice prison tattoo gun and start covering himself in signs and symbols related to his research (thinking back to the chapter 27 artwork). The victims' families that were mentioned in chapter 2, were the families of Dr. Ink's patients who probably came to him thinking they were taking part in some sort of drug trial and ended up as guinea pigs.

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You see, the problem with running an illegal human clinical trial is that the rest of the medical community tends to frown on that... and they also tend to revoke your medical license too.

While still technically having a Ph.D., after losing his license, the news channels probably didn't want to give him the honorific of calling him a doctor. Also, continuously referring to him as "Doctor William I. Roberts" probably got repetitive... "Bill Roberts" or "Ink" would seem easier for news anchors to say and also easier for them to paint as sinister.

It's also possible that they weren't allowed to call him "Doctor" in news casts. The medical licensing board of California may have weighed in on that and made the request. (After all, we only heard one tiny segment of one news report.)

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Originally Posted by Footbutt

Ink has tatoos that cover him from head to toe. how many Pharmacutical companies do you know hire people with that many exposed tatoos?

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

Raydon Labs Dr. W I Roberts and Bill Roberts => Dr. Jekyl and Mr Hyde?

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It might not be that far of a stretch of the imagination to think he might have been covering those tats with makeup.

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Originally Posted by Hoff4D

AADLO
Little Behemoths
MegaInklings
Inkstoise
Inkzard......alright, I'm done

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This isn't even my final form... :D

Seriously though, here's the thing: Was obtaining these chemicals required for the continued growth of the Inklings OR is it for the next generation of TOWTM's horrors?

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Originally Posted by Red Shirt

You see, the problem with running an illegal human clinical trial is that the rest of the medical community tends to frown on that... and they also tend to revoke your medical license too.

While still technically having a Ph.D., after losing his license, the news channels probably didn't want to give him the honorific of calling him a doctor. Also, continuously referring to him as "Doctor William I. Roberts" probably got repetitive... "Bill Roberts" or "Ink" would seem easier for news anchors to say and also easier for them to paint as sinister.

It's also possible that they weren't allowed to call him "Doctor" in news casts. The medical licensing board of California may have weighed in on that and made the request. (After all, we only heard one tiny segment of one news report.)

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Good catch there. That's actually what I was going for but I apparently forgot to actually, you know, say it.
I gotta lean toward the "he had his license revoked for unethical testing" idea. If he was still a licensed doctor at the time of the broadcast, the news media would have identified him as such. They're usually pretty insistent on that kind of thing. So if the broadcast just identified him as "Bill Roberts AKA 'Ink'" I think that's a pretty strong indication that he lost his medical license (assuming, of course, that Ink and Dr. William I. Roberts are the same person. )

I'm only on page 4 and I'm getting a kick out of people saying how many places would hire a guy covered in tattoos in a medical facility. Haha welcome to Cali folks especially LA county. So much more common then you think. Epically bc if you are intelligent and earn degrees that is the gateway to a medical job that you are seeking regardless mostly of your looks. Also this didn't seem like a very public facility.