NEW Infection Theory

The spread of the infection worldwide was fast, but not quite simultaneous. The colonel tells Michael that a day and a half after the outbreak in Los Angeles, the eastern seaboard was hit.

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Originally Posted by PhysicsLB

TOWTM ... seems quite durable (i think he's wearing a flak jacket correct?).

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That was never mentioned or described. It could be that he wears a flak jacket; but it is as likely that he does not suffer from hits to his chest - just the same as with regulars (harmed, no effect) or with Little Ones (hits don't go deep enough to do real damage).

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Originally Posted by Malador

The spread of the infection worldwide was fast, but not quite simultaneous. The colonel tells Michael that a day and a half after the outbreak in Los Angeles, the eastern seaboard was hit.

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Right. This is in line with what Lizzy found out in episode #2-3 about the TiVo-broadcasting ... The excrements hitting the ventilators had a starting point or starting area; I remember the mentioning of the "Ring of Fire" around the Pacific in one of the many WA-theories. But there is no solid evidence or fact on the show supporting this theory - at best some hidden clues pointing towards it.

Best wishes!
Liam

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Originally Posted by LiamKerrington

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Originally Posted by PhysicsLB

TOWTM ... seems quite durable (i think he's wearing a flak jacket correct?).

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That was never mentioned or described. It could be that he wears a flak jacket; but it is as likely that he does not suffer from hits to his chest - just the same as with regulars (harmed, no effect) or with Little Ones (hits don't go deep enough to do real damage).
Best wishes!
Liam

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Actually Saul tells CJ that he believes that Pinstripes must have been wearing body armor. If Pinstripes is indeed Bill Roberts AND he was wearing a suit then he could have been in transport from the Court House to the Mental Hospital; therefore wearing body armor would reasonable for a high profile murderer.

When Burt shoots him. There is a distinct metal thud. I back flack jacket.

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Originally Posted by Malador

The spread of the infection worldwide was fast, but not quite simultaneous. The colonel tells Michael that a day and a half after the outbreak in Los Angeles, the eastern seaboard was hit.

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This has been a bit bothersome for a while. The TiVo news reporter says that there are reports of 'riots' outside of L.A., Sand Diego, Detroit, Chicago, Houston, New York and internationally. Presumably, the riots started somewhat simultaneously or within a short time period. If this is the case, then this could be what Kimmet means by 'it multiplying and spreading across the country in a day and a half'. Not linearly from West to East but radially from several locations.

But, the simplest way to interpret what Kimmet says is that it started from West Coast hot spots and spread eastward. This interpretation would require the LEAST amount of assumptions.

Who is right, Mr. TiVo reporter or Col. Kimmet? The interpretation requiring the most assumptions could make them both right, but how likely is that part of the story? Also, could Kimmet have only been talking about his knowledge of hot spots on the West Coast and Asia?

I'm gonna say that if a Zombie came into this discussion board and bit everyone then there would be more than enough smart ones to give Ink and Randy a run for their money.

I'm listening to chapter 33 again, and during the autopsy of #2, Tanya mentions that there are no deep roots on it's teeth, and underdevelopment of it's breasts in comparison to the size of the body. I think this lends a little more weight to my theory about them being children that were turned.

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Originally Posted by Malador

I'm listening to chapter 33 again, and during the autopsy of #2, Tanya mentions that there are no deep roots on it's teeth, and underdevelopment of it's breasts in comparison to the size of the body. I think this lends a little more weight to my theory about them being children that were turned.

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Don't forget that they were once Little and moved funny when Skittles first saw them.

ok since i last posted, the topic has moved way back towards ground zero and radon labs which is exactly what i was hoping for, this infomation all listed here in the last page or so is extremely relivent, given this infomation i'm going to do some research and print off a copy of the WA map of LA and start mapping things out and dealing with infomation relivent to the source of the outbreak. i think i might be onto something in my mind but i'll need to go through it carefully first and compile the infomation accordingly, so keep talking amungst your selves, to save me listening to the whole series over and over and over i may jump on here and ask people if they remember something like this happening, i think the infomation in the first few chapters is key to unlocking this. given infomation in the series and conversations and stuff.

personally i don't think saul did get infected when he got shot i think it was blood posioning but thats all part of everything, i'm going to sit down and thrash this out over the weekend maybe, depends if i got time or not i should be able too though.

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Originally Posted by PhysicsLB

First, i'll apologize for explaining immunity. The way you had worded previous posts seemed to imply that you didnt fully understand it. that was a mistaken assumption on my part.

As for immunity not having a bearing: It actually does, insofar as the presence of an immunity would help us determine what type of vector it is. From there we can determine communicability, possible treatments, and even begin brainstorming on how illness prgresses and why it affects people differently (other variant zeds). My point with illustrating all these things regarding immunity is that depending on what scenario is true, we can identify the culprit. So saul and tanya's possible immunity is very germaine to this discussion. There is also a hole in your logic here: saul was unaffected by ground zero, but we can't determine if it was the drugs or a natural resistance. As we pointed out earlier, this was done on purpose to keep us from learning anything of value about the infection based on that event. If his drugs truly only affected his blood poisoning, then that event shows saul has a natural immunity.

As far as profiling the infection, i thought that was what we were doing. We've been analyzing the syptoms (zeds & the variants) and trying to determine if there is a second force at play here. If you look at the progression of the variant zeds, it seems to point towards intelligent design. Who that designer is will likely never be known until the very end.

I also have a follow-up for the blood transmission question: are there any instances where someone was turned without exposure to blood? I'm asking because i don't remember, and it's a good question. Especially since Tanya found no irregularities in the blood of the infected.

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P1: no worries mate, i've said before i'm heavily dyslexic, so sometimes what i intend to get across, doesn't always happen, no hard feelings, lets move on, no bad blood, just chicken curry sauce :p

P2: we were you've actualy just given me something to think about in that relation,, i don't think i could of been too far off with a previous theory, needs some work though.

P3: yes you are right but we've veered off topic about saul and immunity and stuff, i wanted to veer back onto the "who saw what and when and how it all happened" thing

P4: i don't think so, Samantha was eaten, the infected are intelligent enough to hunt and track so they also have a sense of breeding as well, this is just my personal opinion its clear that those attacked are often killed it purely seems to be blood transmitted, i think there might of been a case when the team from the fort Irwin came back and that captain turned and then there's all the infected which happened at the check points leading into the base but we don't really have much of a first hand account for that, even then blood can come out of the mouth and even gums via gum disease, so even if it was transfered by a bite, we wouldn't be able to verify i think going off what i remember thus far if there was blood around the mouth to be transmitted and stuff. but something worth looking into.

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Originally Posted by Drogon Malice

P4: i don't think so, Samantha was eaten, the infected are intelligent enough to hunt and track so they also have a sense of breeding as well, this is just my personal opinion its clear that those attacked are often killed it purely seems to be blood transmitted, i think there might of been a case when the team from the fort Irwin came back and that captain turned and then there's all the infected which happened at the check points leading into the base but we don't really have much of a first hand account for that, even then blood can come out of the mouth and even gums via gum disease, so even if it was transfered by a bite, we wouldn't be able to verify i think going off what i remember thus far if there was blood around the mouth to be transmitted and stuff. but something worth looking into.

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Both Samantha and Martin (From the arena) Mentions how the zombies like to 'play' and have 'fun' with the humans before eating. Vague but disturbing descriptions.

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

Actually Saul tells CJ that he believes that Pinstripes must have been wearing body armor. If Pinstripes is indeed Bill Roberts AND he was wearing a suit then he could have been in transport from the Court House to the Mental Hospital; therefore wearing body armor would reasonable for a high profile murderer.

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Originally Posted by Monster mani

When Burt shoots him. There is a distinct metal thud. I back flack jacket.

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I must have missed this. Sorry.
Ok, so I rephrase: There is verified information that Ink wears a flak jacket; but according to description or noises it may be the case.

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

This has been a bit bothersome for a while. The TiVo news reporter says that there are reports of 'riots' outside of L.A., Sand Diego, Detroit, Chicago, Houston, New York and internationally. Presumably, the riots started somewhat simultaneously or within a short time period. If this is the case, then this could be what Kimmet means by 'it multiplying and spreading across the country in a day and a half'. Not linearly from West to East but radially from several locations.

But, the simplest way to interpret what Kimmet says is that it started from West Coast hot spots and spread eastward. This interpretation would require the LEAST amount of assumptions.

Who is right, Mr. TiVo reporter or Col. Kimmet? The interpretation requiring the most assumptions could make them both right, but how likely is that part of the story? Also, could Kimmet have only been talking about his knowledge of hot spots on the West Coast and Asia?

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The simplest way to answer is to "rewind history" from Lizzy's finding:
- When she shows the news to the other Tower people on 12th May, she says she observed things the day before - so she recognized stuff on 11th May. Also the things recorded were programmed before that.
- Based on what the news-man says there are more riots in different cities.
Too bad we have no mentioning from what date the recordings were. In the one worse case they are from 9th May, when things started, which would also mean that there is a contradiction to what Kimmet says. In the other worse case broadcasting took place into 11th May, but the Tower-people did not recognize it. Considering the things Kimmet said I think it is quite "safe" to assume that the recordings were either from the later hours of 9th May or some time during 10th May; this would perfectly match with what Kimmet said - no contradiction at all.

Best wishes!
Liam

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

Both Samantha and Martin (From the arena) Mentions how the zombies like to 'play' and have 'fun' with the humans before eating. Vague but disturbing descriptions.

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Yep. Disturbing, very disturbing. And vague as well. We have no description about what has happened to Samantha. Datu has not mentioned it (yet). It may be possible that she might be used for some breeding-craziness; but I hold it as more likely that she shares the same fate with her predecessors - Martin and other folk ...

Here's something that just popped in my head regarding the Little Ones:

What happens if a pregnant woman is turned? Could it be possible that the little ones are a side effect of being exposed to the infection in-utero? Perhaps this is why they have the full-scale assault on the colony? They want lizzie so they can turn her and generate the next step in their evolution through her baby?

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Originally Posted by PhysicsLB

Here's something that just popped in my head regarding the Little Ones:

What happens if a pregnant woman is turned? Could it be possible that the little ones are a side effect of being exposed to the infection in-utero? Perhaps this is why they have the full-scale assault on the colony? They want lizzie so they can turn her and generate the next step in their evolution through her baby?

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You're on a roll PyshicsLB. Attachment 2616
This seems like it would make more sense than reproducing Zs from conception to birth with a week-long gestation period.

Very Very fascinating.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFods1KSWsQ

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Originally Posted by PhysicsLB

Here's something that just popped in my head regarding the Little Ones:

What happens if a pregnant woman is turned? Could it be possible that the little ones are a side effect of being exposed to the infection in-utero? Perhaps this is why they have the full-scale assault on the colony? They want lizzie so they can turn her and generate the next step in their evolution through her baby?

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I just do not want to know what will happen to Kim Kardashian or her baby at z-day...



Oh you poor starving zombies... I pity you. :)

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

You're on a roll PyshicsLB. Attachment 2616

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DAT ROTATION.
(it doesn't have friction though :/)

Edit: on closer inspection though, It looks like Fpx Is friction.



I should really be working right now...

Going back through the episodes before Season 4 starts and something struck me....

How much time elapsed between Z-Day and the ambush of Saul, Lizzie, and Burt in the rain? I'm wondering because that was the first encounter with Runners. My gut tells me it was not even a week.

That makes me think that someone was already into "genetic engineering" before everything went down if we stick to the Intelligent Zed Design idea.

Otherwise, it points out a VERY rapid evolution of the contagion. Not sure I'm buying that since there are still so many regular Zeds along side the Little Ones (and Behemoth) in Chapter 36.

Just another observation that neither confirms anything or really rules anything out.... (still fun though)

I don't know if anybody mentioned this, but what if Saul and his mom aren't immune but in fact carriers a-la 28 weeks later? I know not very original but if Zedism is a disease, it stands to reason there would be Typhoid Mary types.

That would lead to an interesting child birth next season.

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Originally Posted by scbubba

Going back through the episodes before Season 4 starts and something struck me....

How much time elapsed between Z-Day and the ambush of Saul, Lizzie, and Burt in the rain? I'm wondering because that was the first encounter with Runners. My gut tells me it was not even a week.

That makes me think that someone was already into "genetic engineering" before everything went down if we stick to the Intelligent Zed Design idea.

Otherwise, it points out a VERY rapid evolution of the contagion. Not sure I'm buying that since there are still so many regular Zeds along side the Little Ones (and Behemoth) in Chapter 36.

Just another observation that neither confirms anything or really rules anything out.... (still fun though)

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I'm guessing probably a month.We know that Pinstripes attacked Paul the day befor July 4th because of Pegs. Counting that days backwards we ca guess that they left to follow the tagged bodies perhaps 3 days prior.
Day 1) Michael trapped at the waterworks in the morning and Datu captured that evening.
Day 2) Riley and Angel awaken from the the night in the freezer.
Day 2 or 3) After Riley and Angel trapped in the pile of bodies they are all rescued and return to the tower.

This puts us at June 30th or July 1st.
Now we can go back about another five days based on another post I made.

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

Now how long could have Randy and co. been at the water works? I'm guessing a time line could be as follows:

1. The rain storm prior to Saul's et al trip to the fuel depot was the same one in which CJ's missing convoy was hit. (My guess based on Samantha's assertion that the convoy was attacked in the rain AND that there was a rainstorm prior to Saul, Lizzy and Burt (S/L/B) going to find diesel fuel, and KC emphasized that it was raining.)
2. The same day, or the following day Sean sends Randy and the techies to the water pumping station.
3. 3 days later, CJ's tower is attacked.
4. So Randy may have been at the pumping station from the time Saul, Lizzy and Burt looks for fuel to the time AFTER they return, conduct the experiment and set off to track the tagged zombies.
5. Day 1 - End of rain storm. S/L/B go to find fuel, Kalani arrives at Dunbar, Techies go to water works.
6. Day 2 - Morning following Z attack on Saul in the hybrid.
7. Day 3 - Morning following Saul's escape from the Mallers. Angel discovers that the bodies are gone.
8. Day 4 - Lizzy implements the sweat experiment. Zombies tagged later that day. Latch and Scratch visit the Tower that night.
9. Day 5 - Water pressure finally fails. Michael, Angel, Riley and Datu leave for the water works and to follow the trackers.

Was he really there for almost a week? Did he know his Tower was attacked? Was he working on the plumbing for that whole time? Did he have plumber's crack?

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This places us at around June 25th or 26th. The outbreak started on May 8th.


Man, I feel like a 10th Century monk trying to date Jesus' birth.

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

Man, I feel like a 10th Century monk trying to date Jesus' birth.

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... with a slightly better chance of success ... ;)

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Originally Posted by Witch_Doctor

I'm guessing probably a month.We know that Pinstripes attacked Paul the day befor July 4th because of Pegs. Counting that days backwards we ca guess that they left to follow the tagged bodies perhaps 3 days prior.
Day 1) Michael trapped at the waterworks in the morning and Datu captured that evening.
Day 2) Riley and Angel awaken from the the night in the freezer.
Day 2 or 3) After Riley and Angel trapped in the pile of bodies they are all rescued and return to the tower.

This puts us at June 30th or July 1st.
Now we can go back about another five days based on another post I made.


This places us at around June 25th or 26th. The outbreak started on May 8th.


Man, I feel like a 10th Century monk trying to date Jesus' birth.

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Great job, WD!!!

I just had a "derp!" moment - went and checked the timeline on the wiki and it has June 25th as the date.

So, about 6 weeks from Z-day to the first contact with non-regular Zeds. Even if some were at the attack on Dunbar, the timeline is still pretty much about 6 weeks.

That still brings me back to someone being prepared to work with genetics/virology before the whole thing went down or a very rapid evolution/mutation of the contagion.

I'm sticking with the Intelligent Design of the non-regular Zeds. There is someone behind these special ones. Is it TOWTM or someone in cahoots with him? Is TOWTM actually Bill Roberts and is he working with a doctor from the hospital to create and control all of this?

Anyway, that's more origin theory and not really infection theory. The infection, or non-infection in Saul and Tanya's cases, is a mystery.

Going back to the "typhoid mary" thing:

Typhoid fever is bacterial in nature. So if our infection is bacterial, it would be possible to have an asymptomatic carrier. The "incubation period" of a virus can also be asymptomatic as well, so it doesn't really help us in identifying what type of vector is being used.

The liklihood of something like that seems pretty slim since carriers can usually still infect others and we haven't seen people randomly turning just by hanging out with someone. Also, infection seems to be predominately blood exposure so a carrier would still have to bleed all over someone.

So, possible, but unlikely. Fun idea though.

IF the infection came from the chasms in the ground, then it is likely bacterial, since a virus has to have a living host to carry it.

Things seem to be pointing that way. So maybe "Typhoid Mary" isn't as off base as I initially thought. Now my question becomes, why has Tanya found no evidence of bacterial infection?

Re-listening to chapters 16 & 17, and a few things jump out at me:

Under-water zeds. How do they fit into this thing? If the zeds are still living beings, how were they able to stay underwater for so long?

Behemoths: When Angel and Kalani arrive at the army base, they find the "dead" behemoth lying there. They also give us a few more bits of info: Thick leathery skin, weird veins, and ALOT of acne.

The weird veins and acne remind me of 'roided up bodybuilders...and this is LA...perhaps these guys were exposed to steroids, or were on them when they turned?

Massive changes in human physiology can cause acne, such as pubescent teenagers. I feel that the amount of mutation is based on the age of the host when they're turned. The younger they are, the more the infection causes them to mutate.

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Originally Posted by PhysicsLB

Re-listening to chapters 16 & 17, and a few things jump out at me:

Under-water zeds. How do they fit into this thing? If the zeds are still living beings, how were they able to stay underwater for so long?

Behemoths: When Angel and Kalani arrive at the army base, they find the "dead" behemoth lying there. They also give us a few more bits of info: Thick leathery skin, weird veins, and ALOT of acne.

The weird veins and acne remind me of 'roided up bodybuilders...and this is LA...perhaps these guys were exposed to steroids, or were on them when they turned?

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I keep thinking about the Big Muscled zombie Riley kept talking about when they were tagging them with the trackers. I just couldn't pick up anything on how they might be connected.

Sniff Sniff not been around for a while i'm gonna read up and catch up, sorry folks IRL stuff been holding me down