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I'D make you eat your crow if i was not fuming over the fact that Kalani didnt even ask for proof that Hannah was alive before ratting oit the tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
Ok i'll admit ima little cranky because more secrets are being unfolded and that means were so much closer to the end.
totally see your point at the end there, but are we really? throughout this whole saga that has been playing out, the rat situation has been a sidebar to the entire story. the underpinnings to a larger scenario of human vs human conflict when its totally unnessacary in a "zombie" apacolypse. while ill agree that im sad to see the rat story come seemingly to an end..it really does open up numerous different options as far as story direction..this is done, closed, out of the way..now..on to more pressing matters. the last 3-4 parts have been brilliant execution of a story that could have taken place in any enviroment..not just a zombie story. weaving it into a story such as this is real deal stuff (man, i sound like a gushing fanboy..wtf?..)Quote:
Originally Posted by awkwardalex
anyways, so the human betrayal story arc is (for the most part) concluded..just think of the bits we have yet to figure out? perfect example..this chapters cover art
so we have what looks like either a gas mask or a flight helmet..either way, as many have said..it leans more toward possible ground zero exploration, now throw on top of that the chapter title and we have set a very ominous scenario for out la trio havent we?...so long as we are thinking along those lines, who among our trio has ultimately served their purpose? one that could have one last parting thing to say..filling the meaning of the chapter title? perhaps cj is not long for this story..perhaps vic?( :( ) oh heaven forbid saul! hes gotta find his lizzie! plenty more stupid things for him to rush into still.. reallly just this first chapter has left us with few questions..and a whole bunch of answers..but thats kinda cool every now and then.
Has anyone else noticed that Kalani seems a little full of himself when it comes to the ladies? Remember, much of what we've been hearing of his backstory is being told by him, first-person, in his journal. So first he describes himself having breaking the ice with Samantha in a situation that was fraught with potential. Then he describes Kelly basically coming on to him. There's no telling how much of that, if any, is true. The story doesn't tell us if Kalani went on to become some sort of "Tower Lothario" after the War, but I bet he saw himself that way!
Overall this story episode did a fine job of closing out Kalani's backstory. The only things it left me wanting closure on were the encounter with Skittles/Duncan at the Army base and what he did with the silenced pistol. I'd love to know if Kalani honestly didn't recognize Duncan, or if he was lying to protect his cover. And a silenced pistol sure would have come in handy during that encouter with Pinstripes at the Hospital!
I think it was Scratch idea, not Durai's. The guys in the tower know what happened to the tanker for real, while back at the Mallers' the culprit was believed to be Charlie. Not that I think Durai would give a damn about poor Charlie, but I think Scratch realizes that if they'd capture the Tower occupants alive sooner or later this would come up and put Scratch and Latch in trouble. I think she had Kalani shoot because she wanted an excuse to take the tower by violence and kill the potential witnesses to the real tanker story. Durai seems also genuinely surprised when he delivers the line "YOU are shooting at us!" in response to Michael and he wanted the building as intact as possible, it was pretty clear to me: when Scratch is about to set fire to the stairwell one of the Mallers protests they shouldn't do it, and I'm guessing not out of compassion for the occupants of the Tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eviebae
Great to hear old voices again, but as far as I can tell there are no new Angel recordings. I'm a bit curious as to where Shane Salk is, as he's also not producing this season.
I was think that too. Scratch is so scared of Durai and I didn't know why. The Tanker is a good reason or maybe the visit to the tower could be another. She may have never told Durai of either thing. Your Kalani shoot theory does fit well. We do know that she does have a habit of keeping secrets from Durai since she plan the last assault without him knowing. Only thing I can't think about was her questions about cops being there and also why were guns at this tower a bigger issue to guns the other tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
I listened to this twice yesterday, which I found difficult as I'm really tired of this side story of betrayal, I'm very happy to see it come to a close and I hope there is a return of some Zombies.
I'm glad others have come to the conclusion that Scratch did a bit of a false flag attack on her own people to justify attacking The Tower crew. I think as others have noticed that this will be foreshadowing for a future potential conflict between Scratch and Durai. I do think Scratch will come out on top.
As usual and expected, The We're Alive team is essentially flawless, great job guys!
Finally I'm back on here and it feels great!
Listened to this today on my lunch break. Havent had time for anything recently as I have JUST BECOME AN UNCLE!! woop!!! LoL - Anyways, back to We're Alive.
Firstly to the cast and crew - you are all f*cking amazing in every sense of the word. Kc, you sir, are an absolute legend. Just when I thought that the sound design and overall artistic way of telling this story couldnt get any better, you blow my expectations out of the water. Please don't stop - this is quite honestly some of the best stuff I have ever heard, which includes every form of media from movies to games.
The montage of the war etc was simply mind blowing.
So.Much.Win.
She leaves briefly to tell (probably) Durai what Kalani has said and comes back with orders, so I think she got said orders from Durai. She has said more than once, I think, that she doesn't want to have to try and lie to Durai. She kills Carl to avoid being blamed and I think that shows fear of the consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by clem131
Ok, I got confused. You mean Charlie, not Carl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eviebae
I think she does acknowledge that Durai is in command, but she's still a rogue soldier, I think her choices time and time again prove that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eviebae
dunno if it ever made it to other works page but last I heard Shane was being the genie in Aladdin on a cruise partying it up or some such shenanigans.Quote:
Great to hear old voices again, but as far as I can tell there are no new Angel recordings. I'm a bit curious as to where Shane Salk is, as he's also not producing this season.
But I really liked the whole The War in a nutshell with Kahlani/Bill add ons. It really gave some good perspective
So Kalani never said anything about his daughter being killed in his journals. Do we assume the red-head on the golf course was her? Is she still alive? WTF? Questions still exist!
I don't think Datu will be upset that he was used as an alibi by Kalani. His bigger concern might actually be Hannah. Keep in mind that Hope is sort of in a situation like Hannah was; left orphaned to a group that doesn't really want her. Colony : Mallers : : Hope : Hannah
So, does anyone think we could see Datu and possibly Pegs arguing that they need to go back and rescue Hannah? Then Riley and Tanya will jump on board and say they need to check for Saul and Angel? That would leave Michael out voted. Perhaps once convinced, he would talk with the Ft. Irwin Commander and provide some other reason they need to head back to Los Angeles?
It's a pretty thin idea, but it could happen.
In regards to the chapter art, I have no idea what is going to happen. My instincts tell me it is something related to Ground Zero, but why would Saul want to go there? His only concern right now is Lizzy. Perhaps we are still in store for some more flashbacks, only this time they will be told from the files of Chinwe and focus on her convoys venturing into Ground Zero?
Very true. I honestly don't see Hannah being a priority for the group. But if you look at what lies ahead, they do eventually need to get some answers as to what is causing the Zombie outbreak and how it can be dealt with. They can't live at Ft. Irwin forever in perpetual safety while the rest of the world remains an undead playground. They'll definitely have to head back to Los Angeles to investigate Ground Zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris
That would still be looking forward though. Searching for an answer/cure for the outbreak is a move in the right direction. Sitting around pining over those left behind isn't moving the story forward. It keeps it idle and over enough time will drive it backward. I'd hate to see that happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
Piggybacking off both Osiris and Hero: The nice thing about how the cast is currently split up is the ability to multi-task the plot line. While Saul, Victor and potentially CJ investigate ground zero and the outbreak (which seems inevitable since that machine gun in the artwork looks suspiciously like the SAW), Michael and the other survivors can explore another aspect of the story like the collapse of the government structure or something else.
There's no way they stay at Irwin. And I hope we go a different route than the Colony where they had to leave rapidly because shit went downhill. I think it'd be nice to have it more like a mission to return to LA for some reason and just happen to hear some radio chatter to realize their peeps are still alive.
Piggy backing off of Nik, who piggy backed off of me, who piggy backed off of Osiris, who is just a wierdo. :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
That seems to make quite a bit of sense. I don't think there are any strong reasons that we currently know of for anyone at Ft. Irwin to return to L.A. There has to be some new element they introduce to Michaels group so they can have a real reason to return to L.A. I'm hoping that the military group in Ft. Irwin have a shit load of intel regarding what happened, and possibly shed some light on Ground Zero. It could end up being a split story telling mode where you have the Brass talking about what they know at Ground Zero and Saul,Victor, & Chinwe witnessing it first hand as they explore that area.
But again, I can't imagine how they would convince Saul to go check out Ground Zero when, right now, his only priority is getting Lizzy back.
I'm not piggy backing off anyone.
I...knew...that...it was a test, yeah, a test...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
I think she's a survivor, and Durai seems to rule by fiat rather than committee. I'm betting she's had a hard life and some hard losses but manages to hold on.Quote:
Originally Posted by wh33t
I want to see Hope come to the forefront, at least for a little while. I can't imagine her going back to LA with the group, and if she's left behind at Fort Irwin you might as well write her out of the story.
How about a storyline where Hope knows about something critical relating to Ground Zero from her time at the Other Tower. Maybe she remembers an artifact that an Other Tower convoy brought back from Ground Zero that the government really wants to get its hands on. Or maybe Duncan really was an important scientist and it's Hope's description of him makes Riley realize that Duncan is Skittles. We need something plot related to justify Hope's continuing suvival.
I loved that episode. This one part is so much more exciting that the whole of chapter 27. I loved 'The War' montage. It got me pumped. I feel that Kalani was just going to put, i'm sorry. Maybe he still had some contact with the Mallers, and knew that they were coming again. In Chapter 24 I think he says something to the effect of 'it wasn't supposed to happen that way' when picking up Michael and the others at the golf course. I dunno. Anyone want to let me know if that is correct. I will listen tommorrow to see about it.
I agree with your point about having a real reason to return to LA. The only thing I can think of is aQuote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
'Pull Factor'- meaning something they want / need compels them to return to LA. Resucing Hannah seems unlikely, but maybe Saul and the gang if they knew he was still alive. I can't see Mike & Co. going to Ground Zero on research grounds either, unless he goes with a host of other soldiers and there seems to be a real chance of coming up with a 'cure' if they can get some needed element from GZ. The only other reason I can think of them leaving Irwin is a
'Push Factor'- meaning some shitty conditions at Irwin that compel them to GTFO, similar to what happened at the Colony. What if the Irwin guys are all crazy, or domineering? But ah, this doesn't seem likely to me, as I don't think Kc will re-hash the same basic plot element twice. I mean, how many places are they really going to escape from??
If I had to guess, I vote for the 'Pull Factor' in the form of 'secret Irwin intel' about Ground Zero. And somehow they re-unite with Saul/Vic/CJ in the process...
That sounds way more heroic than I meant it to. I used to have rats as pets. Some people accepted it and some were appalled. I always said that a rat is a lot like a human being, the rougher they've had it the meaner they are. That's how I see Scratch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eviebae
Fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
Scratch is very much 'heroic'. We don't know enough of her backstory to be definitive with the label of being either evil or a monster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eviebae
Sheesh, how many silenced guns are there?
We know of a silenced handgun. Burt gave it to Michael in season 1. We do not where it was stored. In Burt's Armory? Stay with Michael? If it were me, I would have certainly taken it on the water works mission.
We do not hear of the handgun until they are on the way to the Colony.
It is taken by the Colony
It is taken back from the colony and goes back to the tower.
Michael etal now drive back to the tower with a silenced pistol and a silenced MP5.
Burt also returns to the tower after looking for lizzy.
Burt is in the building for probably less than an hour before he goes out with Saul.
Extra people and extra weapons assemble to assault the Mallers.
When the group splits up, Burt thinks he has a silenced pistol in his back. But, we soon find out it is not in his bag.
Kalani shoots Pippin and leaves with Datu and the silenced handgun
Burt and Kalani drive from LAx to the Tower and are reinforced with Angel and Riley.
We never hear Burt inquire about the missing pistol. Kalani does not appear to have time to replace the handgun.
Kalani must "unload" the gun somewhere or take it to the hospital. If he does take it to the hospital, he does not appear to have used it.
Kalani is the shooter, but the custody chain of the silenced handgun is murky at best and not tied up with a neat little bow as KC usually does.
Hot dayyyamn! Well, kudos to everyone that thought Kalani was the trifecta. Man having my redshirt theory blown out the sky really sucked. LOL. oh well.
Bill stealing all the stuff... LOL. I can't even remember if anyone even thought he was in the picture. So know we really know what he was "sorry" about. Those two striking a deal was classic and a huge surprise. Loved it.
Still bum'd that Kalani did everything. I guess the saying hiding in plain sight or going with the simpliest idea really is the way to go.
Ok, Michael's next step:
I think he smoozes the base..crap, I mean..post Commander to take a good crew back to LA to do something violent and final to the mallers. They caused a good amount of pain, suffering and deaths and can't be allowed to get away with it.
could you see them flying in with a couple of blackhawks, maybe some apaches, and a platoon of combat ready soldiers dropping into the middle of maller town? oh, it would be epic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper239
Dude.. I'm saying!
No way can anyone on this side of the law, let that keep going.
If there would have been exact weapon accountability, it wouldn't have "gone missing". But, now that this end of the story is tied up, what do you want to know? I didn't include every detail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche
Perhaps you will understand my point more if I say my original post felt melodramatic. I've been intrigued by her for a long time. Kc has a history of introducing a character in a way that makes you think the story will go one way (thanks to the TV stereotypes many of us are exposed to) and turning the story so our sympathies are engaged. I'm pretty sure it's calculated, that's one of the many reasons I like this podcast so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Osiris
How did Kalani obtain the Silenced Pistol?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
he made it with a potato. Duhhhh!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
I am a first time poster, gotta say thanks to KC and the whole crew for producing such an excellent show.
Regarding this episode, I really felt Kalani did not handle the hostage situation very well. First, he did not insist on hearing hannah speak to confirm she was ok before going forward with the plan. Second, he did not attempt to get any info from pippin. I realize having hope there made that difficult. but i dunno, he could have whispered to pippin or something. And last, I am not sure why he thought that pretending he was dead was the best course of action after the war. Why not contact them? He had done everything asked of him, why not demand her back. Also, why not continue being a rat? He had already betrayed these people, why the sudden change of heart? I will say much of my opinion on how one should handle this situation is from movies....so who knows how a person would really react in this case.
The other thing I was wondering about, did Datu lie about Kalani's whereabouts or did he just not realize that Kalani had gone upstairs because he was so into that CD? Also, Michael should have realized Kalani's alibi was suspect because Kalani had spoken to Michael moments before the murder happened.
and the other thing I wanted to know but someone had already pointed out here - Scratch must have ordered Kalani to fire that bullet on her own - Durai would have no reason (that I can think of) to fake his motivations for starting the war.
Thanks again for all the time and effort put into this...GREAT the War montage/recap in this episode!
EDIT
By chain of custody I do not mean formal paper for characters, I mean chain of possession in my own mind.
End Edit
Yea, I just want to follow the silenced pistol.
Kalani is a slippery eel. I did not peg him as the shooter or assassin, because of the difficulty of linking him to the handguns. If I assume one silenced handgun, it gets rough.
The gun has to come back from the colony. This leaves very little time for it to get to Burt, who puts it in his bag, where it appears Kalani stole it. It is not as if he took Shirley, but stealing a gun from someone who is about to go back out into the hell that is LA is a rotten thing to do. We also have to keep in mind, that Burt and Saul leave the tower before Pippin shows up. At this time Kalani would not have the pressing need for a silenced weapon.
Linking Kalani to Michael's silence pistol is not impossible, but it does get a little convoluted.
Kalani most likely brings the handgun to LAX. Burt and Kalani, drive back to the tower and over to the hospitol. As Kalani, does not use the silenced handgun to shoot our buddy Paul in the back of the head he may have left it back at the tower. Or, he brought it with him, but would not use it infront of Riley because he did not want to be linked to Pippin all the while worrying about using a gun because it is too loud and puts him at such risk he is actually jumped by a zombie.
I do not want to take anything away from your story. Just say the word and I will not do any more nit-picking of your excellent show, Lord knows, I have enough of my own nits to pick to keep me busy this summer
I got your point the first time around. I was piggy backing. Perhaps you should be less concerned with me 'getting it' and just roll with what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eviebae
First of all welcome to the forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by loydmilligan
Kalani did mishandle the situation in so many ways. If he had told the Tower folks about what had happened to him in the first place they most likely would have helped him. But he has also just met these people and had no idea what they were like.
As far as some of things you brought up specifically: It seems like Kalani bailed on being the rat because he got freaked out after the war. Think about what it would be like to look around after the battle and see what the Mallers were capable of doing and then realize that you are the one responsible for causing it. He didn't want to help these people out anymore. He only helped them in the first place because he thought he had to to protect his daughter. After the war his priority shifted to laying low and trying to find another way to get Hannah back that didn't involve causing another situation like the war. At least that's how I see it anyway.
Very interesting point about Datu and something I had not considered until just now. Why was Datu covering for Kalani unless he knew what was going down? Then again, if Datu DID know why would bother to cover for Kalani when Pippin was murdered? Why wouldn't he just sell that tubby bitch out? Instead he risks his own stake in The Tower by covering for him. Why? WHY DAMNIT!Quote:
Originally Posted by loydmilligan
Durai has plenty of motivation to fake the war. He's a manipulator. That's what they do. They manipulate. Scratch seems to be the one who would simply say 'You've got until 3 and then I'm going to burn your house down... 3...' Durai is the devious one. But, that's just me.