grammer nazis who spell grammar incorrectly is my pet peeve.Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper239
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grammer nazis who spell grammar incorrectly is my pet peeve.Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper239
Firstly thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
Secondly, I'm with you that CJ really lucked out because she would have run out of ammo but also we heard her reload after she drops the last zombie. It could be good drills because she knew the clip was low it or it could have been the dead mans click for her if after the next one came around the corner.
If they keep ignore him, he will be their downfall. He getting a lot of intel on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by cupcakezombie
litmaster
There's no I in team... When you dont feel like you have no say in what's going on..thats a turn off. To me, hearing cj say "i don't have one of those" in the previous chapter..made it seem more like she was collecting tools, not saving lives...i wouldn't want to be a part of that. So while yes...planning was amazing..if your people don't believe in you..how can you expect them to execute. That for me is where the piss poor thing comes from
but I must say...i think I like agree with cj the most from a personal angle...lone wolf hide in the basement...yea..thats me all day
Oh, and regarding this:
This has got me thinking, in the last 20 minutes or so, of whether the zombies are all following diverse, fractious tribes, each ruled-over by it's own savagely charismatic leader, or whether there was the capacity for the evolution of a..... (wait for it!)... a...Quote:
Originally Posted by litmaster
ZOPE!
(That's Zombie-Pope, silly! Get it?)
So, when if comes up in further discussion, just remember where you heard it first...
The Zope, copyright 2012 by Litmaster threads, inc. All rights reserved. :D
I'm calling copyright infringement...blatant rip off Of troll pope
:D
Ugh, I was going to say that. Haha!Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
--
Anyway, you guys are dissecting the episode well. I think this is my favorite episode of We're Alive. I like backstories and side-stories. The Colony was a huge hit for me and so is this. It's so nice to finally get some of the story all wrapped up. Now just a bit more Kalani reading to do and we're golden with a lot of our questions!
This got me thinking about the similarities between the Other Tower and the Colony. Both were very efficient operations where people worked hard at jobs that seemed to give them little joy. Both were strictly hierarchical, run by people who seemed intent on controlling the flow of information and access to weapons. Both seemed almost as focused on keeping their own people in as on keeping others out. That's not to say that the Other Tower was a bad place, just that it seemed a lot less inviting than our Tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by litmaster
So I've spent the majority of my day cursing my job and puzzling over why the suited baddee would leave cj in the basement. Which brought me around to just how much interaction he's had with our tower folk...to our knowledge, he was present after...if not during the convoy ambush, and then the attack on the other tower. Meanwhile, our tower people have had several run-ins with him. Perhaps not all on home turf..but none the less...weird.
I'm wondering..could this all just be a giant chess game to him? By this i don't mean a game of zoms vs humans...rather humans vs humans. Picking off all the dead weight until the city is left with only the few remaining humans he deems worthy of the game. Once all the pieces are in place..let em have at each other...then you only have the remaining to contend with...or play with.
I realize I'm probly giving his level of intelligence far to much credit. But i can't help wondering things like this..he behavior is just too bizarre. still not convinced he's fully undead
He might not be fully undead. Skittles said the zombies didn't go after him when they were attacking tower #2. So maybe this means the undead are friendly with certain people. Plus, we can never under estimate the zombies, they could be capable of anything.
Interesting that we are assuming the zombie motives here, which is to say, other than Ink, the forum is operating under the assumption that the zombie mass are in an end-game, last man standing, elimination style vendetta with the goal of simply mindlessly eradicating and eating everything in sight. We know NOTHING about their motives, which is a huge hole in all of our logic. Can we derive motive from actions? If so then these are a puzzling bunch of undead beings with no real recurring characteristics other than a variety of diverse conflict orientated interactions with non-zombies. Let us revisit the outbreak and decide if this is calculated or not. Indeed, we haven't touched on the possibilities of other such "leaders" for other factions of zombie groups...ie. was there an "Ink" in Hawaii, or is Ink a world wide, one of a kind anomaly? Asking this questions leads us to realize that we are assuming that "leave her" was Ink, which a few of you have questioned.
We cannot reason with the seemingly unreasonable.
So why leaving CJ and skittles...selective eating? self preservation as a next step in evolution? sustainable farming practices? Or a piece in a puzzle that we cannot possibly conceive because kC is only letting us see one piece at a time through a microscope of brilliant story telling.
I know it is no fun to simply state that we can't know anything for sure, so lets say this...
LA is not a microcosm representing the zombie apocalyptic world...it is a unique occurrence. There is only one Ink.
Hmm..im trying to wrap my brain around all this. I honestly could care less about the motives of the zombies...to me l, their motives are simple...survive...find food..do what that one cat in the suit says...bout it. The anomaly (and yes, I totally agree that he is an anomaly) is ink. He truly is in my opinion the only member of the undead faction we should concern ourselves with..the rest are simply faceless soldiers...the occasional general may make a cameo appearance every now and then (ie: randy)..but beyond that..they are simply plot devices..in my eyes. To understand the end game of the zombies is to understand inks behavior
And yea..by ink I mean that one dude we call like thirty different names...seriously. I'll give ya their may be a ringleader in the arena during the purgatory scene..but there's Only one suit wearing guy..im bout over the hundred names of confusion....end/ rant
I think to underestimate the zombie mass as a character without the same depth as the rest of the characters is to ignore an entire element of this story. We have the human perspective, and that drives the narrative, but the zombie perspective is beyond our privilege and eventually their motives will have to be explored. We are already theorizing their actions, but through our own humanistic values. Mindless killers? Sure, but why all this strange behavior? The arena would suggest they have the capacity for pleasure and excitement, following orders shows loyalty, following complex orders suggests understanding and on and on it can go.
If they are mindless killers, then the only possible outcome is death, and not just death for humans, but eventual death of zombies as such behavior can only lead to their own destruction. Is the tunnel vision of the zombies reflective of the survivors?
I know kC has mentioned before that this is a story of humans, not of zombies, so the discussion of zombie motives would appear moot, but I would argue the opposite by echoing Michaels whole logic of documenting and gathering intel on the zombie threat in an effort to "know thy enemy".
Why is this here and not in the theories? Well, because I believe we are entering a pivotal point of the story line...the formula has suddenly changed. No more colonial style warfare of construct and defend, it clearly doesn't work as every fortification has fallen (including the zombie arena) and pretty soon the survivors are going to figure out that this whole mess isn't going to just "go away" by hiding in the elusive safe place that everyone seems to be looking for. The zombies are here, and there will be a time when their motives can't be ignored.
well now..if you wanna talk about the mass of zombies as a whole that's a different story..i might have been slightly sidetracked earlier and didn't catch that/just didnt register what your trying to convey. the problem i have is...most of this has little to do with this chapter. BUT!...in a way it doesQuote:
Originally Posted by Willy Beamen
so during the attack on the other tower, what did the undead horde, as a collective...do? busted in..when given the "attack" or "kill" or whatever call..and started wrecking shop. killing wildly(least thats the way i took the scene playing out), nothing unusual there. however, when we come to the group that went to the basement after CJ they appeared to show restraint on some level..how much did that have to do with ink being present? at this point we have no way of knowing..but the fact remains, they either heard or saw four of their party get taken out and hesitated before rounding the corner, that shows some level of cunning and a survival instict for sure
speaking of that scene...and with a nod to undeadsweeper and A_hero who first acknowledged this...how exactly did ink and crew A: know to look for CJ in the basement B: know she was in fact, a she..
i think that first part (A) is the one bit that drives me the most crazy...it would be one thing for ink to sneak in..get "the party started" so to say..and step back and watch the fireworks..in fact that kind of seems his m.o. (watching you from the rooftops) but the fact that he went down to the basement...specifically were CJ was holding up, and drew his minions away??... that speaks of something quite deliberate...calculated..i dunno, im just facinated by this aspect of the story (small detail: if you listen closely, when ink and crew leave the basement,youcan hear the same footsteps that we heard when kalani and riley ran into ink in the basement of the hospital..fun stuff right there)
but i wont disagree with most of the stuff you have said..hell, i like the majority of the ideas..but i do disagree as to this thread being the proper place for them..unless put into the context of this chapter
Regarding Pinstripes:
I view Pinstripes as a smart but sick individual. It leaves me with the impression that it enjoys taunting and playing with the emotions of it's prey, as well as getting pleasure out of the physical pain it causes humans. When Michael and the rest encountered it in their own tower, it stood up after having been shot (presumably upon hearing the humans were out of ammo) and it laughed. It mocked them and relished the looks of surprise coming from the humans that had assumed it to be an unintelligent animal.
Then we have the slaughter house in the arena. Is this the manifestation of just one of the multiple personalities of Pinstripes/Ink/Bill Roberts/The One With Markings? It's very just that he has so many nicknames as he was a paranoid schizophrenic suffering from multiple personalities. The arena slaughter house of zombie pleasure could be just one of the many facets of Pinstripes mind. He is an anomaly because of the nature of his brain; it was literally wired different than yours or mine before being infected, and now that he's got Z juice pumping through those veins, god only knows what his brain looks like. He holds these bloody arena games to entertain his horde, and perhaps that is their motivation for joining his ranks. He offers them protection in numbers, entertainment in death, and a guaranteed food supply.
In the moments when the zombies under his lead spare the life of Skittles, I believe we are witnessing Pinstripes dole out emotional torture. He probably loves that he is creating a loon. Hell, he may have had intentions of eventually turning Skittles and creating another special breed of zeds; those with a mental condition on top of zombism, making for a dangerously unpredictable zed with stellar survival skills. But I do believe that Pinstripes gave his horde the order to spare Duncan so that he can let this one human being suffer terrible mental anguish. The same applies for CJ. He probably decided that not only was it not prudent to lose a handful of zeds in attempting to capture or kill CJ in that hallway, but he must have known that leaving her be would have great negative impact on her leadership abilities.
I am also of the opinion that Pinstripes is not the only one Pimp ass zombie in the world. He may be the only one of his caliber in L.A. but I do believe there are other ranking contenders to his throne, not to mention the potential for zombies leaders of an even higher caliber living in other cities across the world. I feel by day 3 of the outbreak, what you had worldwide, was the establishment of zombie kingdoms in all the major cities. I don't view We're Alive as a summer blockbuster movie in which the hero of the world and the Apocalypse are both found in New York or L.A. Los Angeles is just the first major hurdle, the first Independance Day space ship that needs to be destroyed in order to show the rest of the world "how to take those sons-of-bitches down."
The story never falters as you guide us through the world that is We're Alive. I sound like a broken record I know but I can't quit saying how the sound effects, background noises and music get better each episode. When it seems that you guys have finally set the bar high enough, you leap a little higher. The failed rescue/arena scene was perfection. I was on the edge of my seat in a panic hoping all would end well (even though i already knew it wouldn't). The sound effects worked so beautifully here. One didnt need to see it on a tv/movie screen to know what was happening.
Hmm... I believe that undead horde has a level of restraint and survival instinct. Remember when they were are the boat and Micheal notice that the one coming for them look like they "weaker"
then ones on the mainland. As remember lunchtime at the Arena. Preservation is their pattern.
Side-note: Adventureless_Hero Since you are still in the 1st season of Walking Dead, can you tell me in what eps that some of them when to a Gold Gym and work out for a month to the song " I'm sexy and I know it"? :rolleyes:
I wonder if Skittles' survival isn't a factor of pheromones. I remember reading that dogs can sense humans who suffer from schizophrenia and some other mental disorders. This is probably accomplished through their sense of smell, which suggests the existence of "crazy" pheromones. We already know how sensitive zombies are to pheromones. Maybe "crazy" pheromones cause zombies to instinctively avoid the broadcasting humans, or even makes the humans invisible to them (like alcohol seems to do).Quote:
Originally Posted by litmaster
**RESIDENT EVIL THEORY (I'm using the movies)**
We know the hospital was doing some kinds of experiments so is it safe to say that maybe Ink either injected himself or was injected with a virus? I apologize but I don't know everyone's name from the RE games/movies. In the 2nd movie there was the T-Virus infected Matt who was able to follow orders via satellite and in the 3rd movie the Dr. injected himself with the Anti-Virus b/c he was attacked by his own brand of zombies whom he was able to control and teach to an extent.
Just an idea.
After some light reading I do believe that the zombies and Ink were able to tell the gender of CJ based on her body odor. There are a few factors that can contribute to someone's individual body order.
Yes, when I listened the second time, they could see what is going on. Samantha goes as far to say that (via Kalani's version) that she was with them and they were other members of the apartment. But, it can strengthen my Off the Top Rope for part3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
I loved this episode, but somehow I feel nickvoodoo affected the length of this episode.(Listen to We're Not Dead) I was waiting for the last bit of show to be Riley and Angel rescueing Datu and then Kalani. Nit Pick Nit Pick. This was a great chapter. I am now ready to move on now. Ready to get back to Fort Iriwin and the Saul Lizzie storyline. Kalani is the Severus Snape of the WA world. kinda. I guess.
It is also official that these are not just Zombies. That "leave her" was so clear and chilling.
*polishing nails on shirt*Quote:
Originally Posted by IamPaul
Yeah....I'm kind of a big deal and influence the length of the show....
Yeah I don't believe me either.
Content influences episode length. Not any sort of voodoo magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikvoodoo
I think that when Victor mentions what happens to Sean at the Colony. CJ will get mad and want to go to the Colony and kill Gatekeeper. Then when they finally get there they will find that is where the Mallers went and that is how they will find out where the Malllers went
nonononononono please!! There's still a lot to know about Kalani!!Quote:
Originally Posted by IamPaul
you just think it has nothing to do with voodoo magic............that's what's so beautiful about it! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
Oh so btw I got so wrapped up in all the content of this season I totally forgot to eat a touch of crow: The Mallers obviously did not go to the Other Tower now did they? So much for that championed idea of mine! It never clicked until I read Big G's comment. It's starting to look pretty promising that the Mallers headed South to the Colony.....it is the only other thing we know is down south as of this moment....
I wonder if Shovel Face is now Gatekeeper now that Gatekeeper is Supreme Leader.....
Didn't the zombies, or at least the bulk of them get in through the basement? It sounded to me like Ink got in through the front, let out a howl and the horde came in through the area in the basement they were reinforcing. So maybe its just a case of CJ accidentally ran into the tide of zombies on her way to find her weapon stash and they found her, then Ink followed the gunfire and called off his "men" because CJ was too dangerous a threat to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
Yeah, the fact that gatekeeper takes the name of his current position is going to make things a bit wonky for some folks who don't keep up.
Gatekeepers new title will be President? Herr Fuehrer?
I am actually hoping, though it is a very slim chance, that Markus survived the coup and actually had Gatekeeper's rebellion squashed. But I'm thinking this is more likely the case:
Gatekeeper to radio: "Who the hell do you think you are, asking for me on my radio, by my real name?"
man on radio: "Come now. Is that any way to speak to me?"
Gatekeeper: "Durai?!"
I get the feeling Gatekeeper is a former Eastern Bay inmate, possibly even a former Sister.
I am going to guess that kalani took the shot. Maybe tried to hit Scratch or Durai. Also I have listened to season 1 a quadrillion times (actually probably around 5) and when Kalani first gets to the tower, he has guard duty the morning of the day they have the party. He probably called the Mallers in desperation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
So Skittles is the new Duncan??
Who exactly said "Leave her" and who was it to?
Yeah, I had put that down in my timeline. But I can't be 100% that Kalani fired the shot. It seems like a dangerous thing to do when they are holding your kid hostage. There are a number of crazy scenarios that could have led to Kalani firing that shot:Quote:
Originally Posted by IamPaul
-shoot first, jump start a war between the prison people and these tower people, rescue Hannah in the confusion
-Scratch may have ordered him to fire the first shot, knowing that the Tower folk would not want to fight, so she could have said he needed to be the catalyst to get the war started, thinking that the Mallers could not afford to waste the opportunity to attack (keep in mind they knew the tower folk had no ammo and would be drunk) also, where did he get the gun? were they handing them out at this point? or did he steal it in cahoots with Bill? Did a maller sneak around that morning and leave a gun with some blank rounds?
-maybe he fired the first shot aimed at Hannah's captor, just as you suggested
-he may have also been mislead into believing Hannah was already dead at this point, and lured the mallers to the tower in hopes of getting revenge
There are too many possibilities at the moment.
Skittles is not the NEW Duncan, but rather the guy you always knew as Skittles, it turns out his real name is Duncan. He was a member of CJ's tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by thatrichterkid
As far as who said "Leave her" it was a flesh biter, presumably Pinstripes. It was a command directed at other flesh biters telling them to leave Chinwe, aka CJ, alone.
Try to keep up, newbie. :p
I think you may have hit it! Scratch has shown that she have her own agenda. Also I assume he would got a gun during the escape from the Arena. Or he could have when he hide the guns before the war.Quote:
Originally Posted by adventureless_hero
Or maybe it was a Bug out bag. Someone was pulling a CJ Moment.
There's been lots of speculation about the nature of the zombies again with this new episode, which has led me to concoct a (I think) new theory about Zombie Lineages. It attempts to answer questions such as
- WHY TO THE ZOMBIES SEEM TO FORM TRIBES (i.e. 'cliques') UNDER ONE 'LEADER'?
- HOW DID 'INK' (et. al.) ASSUME SUCH LEADERSHIP?
- IS INTELLIGENCE THE MAIN FACTOR THAT QUALIFIES A ZOMBIE FOR LEADERSHIP?
- HOW DOES ONE ZOMBIE 'JOIN' A PARTICULAR TRIBE?
Check out the theory, posted here.
Depends on how the word "downstairs" is used. Several times they mentioned those downstairs..i went downstairs...yadda yadda..but at no point did I hear they came in through the basement...no hate man,I had to double check myself..but I took it as the looby area..downstairs..think of this..when Saul and Vic were brought in..they made note of a wall being kinda sloppily built(paraphrasing)..i don't believe they came in through the basement there either, so yea...Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKor
I dig it...and I guess your right. Proper place for the proper discussion eh? Still getting ahold of this whole "Forum" thing. Truth be told this is the first I have ever strayed into the world of the world of Forums, been living under a rock most of last six years.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7oddisdead
So how about the idea of Ink being unique, I think if we can assume that Ink showed up after the zombies followed CJ into the basement then we can start to argue that Ink may not be unique because the other zombies show inconsistent behavior patters, or, if he did take the group to the basement then we can assume he is unique and the only one with survivalist characteristics (besides the need to feed of course).
I'm new here, and I don't think I've seen this, but this chapter has me thinking the following train of thought:
Reading through all the talk about CJ and the members of the other tower being involved in law enforcement, and taking the theories about TOWTM coming from Bill Roberts, who was likely at that prison, might it be possible that TOWTM recognizes CJ and Duncan? This is way out there, but perhaps they were humane towards him in the prison or stood up for him at some point. Because of his high-level of functioning, TOWTM might have stronger memory of his pre-zombified life and chooses to spare them. Something in the way "Leave her" came out struck me as a statement of mercy, not of strategy.
It seems odd that with the same amount of time, both the mallers and the other tower seemed to have a more intimate level of knowledge about the zombies than Michael and co. If the inmates of the prison were being experimented on as a part of this outbreak or Bill Roberts and his minyans played a role in spreading the outbreak, it would makes sense that these groups would know more about them and all that's going on. I'm guessing CJ has a bit more intimate knowledge of such things in her secret files, question is, when will she feel comfortable sharing that info with Saul/Victor?
Anyway, great writing, KC - you've truly created a world within this story that is captivating and believable (even in its unbelievability)
this I like!..of course, you could go the other way with it as well...leaving Duncan a mentally broken man and cj's tower in ruins with all her people dead...and leave her to live with it, to deal with knowing that...seems pretty vindictive and vengeful...could go either way..but that does tie the whole thing together..niceQuote:
Originally Posted by Tar Heel Fan