I guess I could have looked at the installation's web site (like I just did). LOL. I see the MP unit and Ops.. nothing for helo's that I can tell though.
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I guess I could have looked at the installation's web site (like I just did). LOL. I see the MP unit and Ops.. nothing for helo's that I can tell though.
Yea, there is some good stuff in this thread.
I have been wondering / worrying about Michael the last several episodes. And just about unforgivingly this season.
He cannot say there is no one back there. He can say it is too dangerous if he wants. Or the risk to reward sucks. But, he cannot make a statement of fact based on an opinion. I will cut him some slack, but I would say he is whooped and it is clouding his judgement. He is pretty close to doing things that are good for Michael rather than what Michael can do for everyone else.
But, that is one of the main driving points of the series.
Like crowbar said, commmand and control is going to be all screwed up. No Uniform. No ID. Michael does not have the charisma to go in and have all the fuzzies hopto.
And people from different branches just complicates things.
It also makes me miss Burt.
Angel tells Michael to listen to the Gunny, but Michael still writes Burt off. Later in the same episode Burt gives Michael a silenced pistol and calls him "Buck Sgt" as he walks away. A Gunny out ranks a Buck. In addition, Bucks are with the flyboys not the Army. Michael was still wearing his uniform just a couple of days into the story and clearly not Air Force. The majority of the Bucks are not with the Front Line troops and are more likely to be worried about Logistics than fire and maneuver drills. Just a nice little jab.
I thought this was helpful:
http://www.irwin.army.mil/CommandGro.../Irwin_Map.pdf
The main helipad is at the corner of Inner Loop Rd. and 5th St. I was able to scope it out on Google maps. Seeing an actual location where the story takes place is pretty awesome!
I just had a thought; what if they weren't shooting at a flesh biter when they landed at Ft. Irwin? What if it was a living soldier who came running up on them or was in a hidden position waiting to shoot them? Maybe Ft. Irwin isn't welcoming any survivors and Michael & crew are surrounded? The final shot we heard (pistol) could have been a warning shot.
Just curious if you had. It's definitely a different kind of base.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
Sorry I didn't explain properly, I meant that if there is a military unit there then chances are there is someone there who outranks a Sgt.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
But even if there is one left I'd bet (like others) that the chain of command is all but gone. This even happened in the tower. Angel was ranking after all, and he was basically told to STFU because he was crap (not a bad thing).
It's also sometimes used as a reference to E-5 in the army, not always air force.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche
I am to lazy to go through every post, so if this has been answered I apologize. I beleive Datu said, "How about that nap?"Quote:
Originally Posted by EVABLACKX
Once again i loved the episode. Quickest 16 minutes of my life. When I heard the ad I thought, 'Well this is going to be how they get Burt in Chapter 25'. Made me chuckle. The only real mystery to this episode besides the ending is what is Riley covered in. Maybe Datu accidentally shot her. Things happened so fast that they may not have had time to fully check Riley. And the uplifting music when they first saw Ft. Irwin made me think that maybe they would be ok, and these last 2 seasons may be them going back to get the others. I hate to say it, but it is kind of nice to not have the tower anymore. There truly is no idea what is going to happen or what they can do now.
It's just puke mate, KC already confirmed that. Too much alcohol. But if he hadn't said that then your shout would have been quite a good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamPaul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bray
Yea I am not good at reading through every post. Is it weird that Kelly was afraid to touch puke, or am I weird to think that puke isn't gross when you gotta pick up a good friend to save them from potential death or worse.
Haha yeah given the situation you'd think you'd just get on with the task...women huh? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by IamPaul
*Hides and waits for the storm*
Never mind my last post. I forget that Kelly was a lawyer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bray
Thanks for the link and that's a good theory. I hadn't thought of that one. Most of the other theories posted so far rolled around in my noggin right after this episode. I hope this one is right. It'd flow with the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
I don't remember who said it but it really was the fastest 16 minutes ever. I had to do a double take at the clock in my office.
Loved the Locked and Loaded ad.
I've called some of my brand new Sergeants "Buck SGT" when they started a little big in their ego britches. It brings them back down to level ground. And I don't do it because of any zoomie or leatherneck references, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
If I recall correctly, buck Sergeant (and, for that matter, buck Private) means the lowest rank of the two (Or maybe PV1?), if I recall my googling from when I saw Cool Hand Luke a decade ago. A gunny would be an SNCO, so, yar, outrank. If there is a surviving force at Irwin, there's a significant chance that SGT Cross will not be the senior man on post.
Wiki notes that Irwin has a population of about 8000+. Not a /large/ community, by any means, but, if google maps is something to be believed, it is a sizable enough training facility. Part of me wants to say that the base could have been easily overrun because of the civilian population in Barstow, but, if I recall correctly, that dusty road to the facility wasn't packed with cars.
Still, looking at it, it doesn't look eminently defensible. Its no fortress, and while there must /certainly/ be some sort of fence around a lot of the property, it is a large reservation. Still, chock full of a bunch of dudes being trained to fight in the desert, armed to the teeth, with foreknowledge of all the proper places to hole up (assuming bachelor enlisted housing is the same 'round the military, those things would make some formidable buildings if you could knock out stair access.), its not inconceivable that a sizable population has been holed up waiting for a rescue party.
I have to agree. That gunshot at the end was... inconclusive. It didn't necessarily have to have come from our disembarking heros at all. All the noise might've drawn zombies, but the sound of a big Coastie chopper would probably draw survivors too. Hopefully more /trusting/ survivors.
I'm not sure if this is what KC has been hinting at, but let me explain something about Fort Irwin that might be of interest.
This is a MAJOR training base. Every 28 days a 4,000 man Army Brigade arrives there to conduct very realistic war games. These units travel to California with their small arms and some specialized equipment, but they pick up most of their heavy equipment from stores that are permanently maintained on Fort Irwin.
At the edge of the main base there is a complex of warehouses that contain, literally, enough hardware to equip an Army. This includes all of the tanks, armored vehicles, trucks, humvees, ammunition and rations necessary to equip the visiting Brigade. Plus there is enough to equip the Brigade scheduled to arrive the following month. Plus there is enough to equip the OPFOR (Opposing Forces) unit that is permanently based at Fort Irwin to serve as a sparring partner for the visiting units. All told, there must a thousand tanks and armored vehicles and over five thousand trucks and humvees located on the base.
Add to that the fact that Fort Irwin gets its water from wells on the base, it gets its electricity from a solar power complex on the base, that there's a large fuel storage facility and a hospital, and that it's geographically isolated, and you can see why Michael, Saul & Angel thought that the survivors could hold out here.
It sounds so damn cool that I want to live there now! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch
So essentially, what you're saying is, in order for them all to have been turned, something must have gone VERY wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch
OR, maybe, just maybe, the OPFOR were the zombles and the government were sending troops there to practice taking down the soon to be undead masses!!!
I've been there 4 times. Fun to visit (sometimes), doesn't look fun to live at. Once you leave the base, the nearest civilization is Barstow. The biggest nearby cities are Las Vegas and LA; 3 hour trip either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeKay86
LOL. Copy that. I also didn't know that "Buck Sgt" was a term in the Army's lexicon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellbringer
Midway through part 2, Michael makes reference to "few more active duty bases to the east" of their emergency landing spot outside Barstow, but he did know how far off they were. Don't know what bases he was refering but he really should have looked to the west. Edwards AFB, which is a MAJOR military installation and about the same distance as Ft. Irwin from where they were at the time and about the same distance as from where they are now in part 3.
But now one must assume now that if Ft Irwin is overrun by zombies (which it certainly sounds like), then Edwards probably is too. Hopefully we will see some glimmer of hope somewhere at Irwin, otherwise I see this audio drama having a very, very dark ending. And I hate dark endings.
When faced with a Zombie horde and looking for a place to regroup to Live out Life, Restart Civilization or plan for a counter strike the problem becomes where does one go?
The thing is, that if it is a really nice to place to live is there were probably people there before the outbreak. Since KC it our heroes with virtual extinction event by altering or killing about 6 billion people, if there were people there, before the outbreak, there are almost certainly zombies there now. This provides the catch 22 that survivors have to escape the zombies and then rebuild where it is inhospitable. To cusion the blow, one can seek out Supply Dumps that are not easily accessed. A military base in the middle of the desert (Death Valley?) is a good choice. Not a lot of people around and a natrual Area-Denial buffer. If the group can make a beach-head and defend it from the initial counter strike they could be OK. They MUST have an easily defended locations with logistic backup. Then, they have to Push Back the enemy and start creating Zones of Control that have a decrease in threat as one gets to the "safe room" of last resort.
Another good Option is a Hunting / Fishing Lodge. Those might be fully stocked, they are remote and have a lot of things to hunt or fish. Once there, they will have to be secured like the tower was and with any luck Ft Irwin will be.
The good news is that it seems they landed on an elevated structure. Let's hope its access is restricted such as a single gang-way and not designed for supply drops with a truck-size access ramp
it's not an official thing, but it is used to differentiate a sergeant E5 from higher ranking sergeants. typically in passing higher ranking sergeants would just be refered to as sergeant, but when seeking to differentiate between say a first sergeant and a sergeant, one might say first sergeant and buck sergeant.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaveCrowBarWillTravel
The helicopter pad (Captain Pegs refers to it as a "helicopter place") would simply be a flat parking tarmac for choppers, not a structure. Michael even tells us that there were several other desert camo'd helicopters tied down around them. I think they landed right there on flat ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur LaMarche
What really surprises me is that they didn't take time to make a positive identification before setting the helicopter down. Datu stating that there were "people" and Tanya observing that "I think a see uniforms" confirmed nothing. They gave up their only advantage by setting the helicopter down on the tarmac. What was the big hurry?
Now we have a busted up Burt with a nearly dead Angel, along with maybe Lizzy in the hands of Scratch and the mallers, a confused (and very bitchy) Saul and Victor pondering whether they should continue forward to Ft Irwin or go back to the Tower, Michael and Kelly stranded in Ft. Zombieland and a helicopter load of the blind and drunk. I was wondering when we would get to the "Inadequate Strength" part.
We're there.
Fort Irwin is surrounded by other military reservations. The northwest corner of the reservation buts up against the Nellis Air Force Base ranges, the China Lake Naval Air Station ranges are on the western boundary, with Edwards AFB just beyond them, and the Marine Corps 29 Palms complex is due east.Quote:
Originally Posted by dontkillburt
If our heroes can't make a go of it at Fort Irwin maybe they should head off to Area 51. That's about the same distance to the northwest as LA is to the southwest.
I was quite surprised by this too. I thought before touching down they would want to confirm whether or not the place had been hit and/or overrun. I figure they would want to see signs of at least one survivor before touching down.Quote:
Originally Posted by dontkillburt
[EDIT]I had a theory that the shot fired at the end of 25-3 may have come from a soldier as a warning to Michael and his group but having relistened you can definitely hear a zombie growl accompanying running foot falls.
I'm also thinking Lizzie has to be pregnant now, otherwise, what reason would Scratch have not to kill her? As cold and cruel as Scratch has proven to be, I can still picture her saying, "Leave that bitch alone. She's pregnant." Maybe since Lizzie is so attractive she will be presented to Durai as a gift.
Thanks Don't Kill Burt.
I guess I did not listen carefully enough. The Landing Places up here (NY's Northern Boarder) are off the ground. Six feet or so. The choppers are tied down there. Now that I stop to think about it, it is probably because of the Snow. As it is elevated, it is very easy to clear off and will not be quickly filled back in by blowing snow.
Ft Irwin is probably still on the flat lands and not in the mountains? If so, I do not think they will have to worry much about snow and even less for snow drifts.
I think one of the "animated corpses" road into the fort clinging to the helicopter skid, out of view of everyone inside. This would explain why it just sort of appears as soon as they get out of the helicopter and Michael is taken by surprise. The people on the ground probably noticed the thing hanging from the helicopter...
Looking at the avenues of approach to the Post, I see that the West (Goldstone Rd) and South (Ft Irwin Rd) can be defended pretty easily for well trained infantry and artillary troops. Those are pretty narrow choke points and they'd have the roads prepared as well as having the high ground.
The SE (Langford Lake Rd)has the largest gap by far. That would be where the greatest concentration of fire power would be for a traditional holding defense. BUUUUT, since the infected are most likely coming up the road from Barstol, then the southern most route would be where they'd make preparations.
The bad thing is that the post's supporting infrastructure is spread way the hell out!
i also couldn't figure out why they wouldn't buzz the base a couple times, though i like the zombie on skid row theory since that would mean that the base wasn't overrun.
My only issue with the skid zombie is why do we hear it running up? Its already there. It makes more sense for the zombie to come out from behind one of the tied down choppers to me.
Maybe it fell of just before the touch down?
The "skid zombie" (liking this term) may have come running from around the chopper? Perhaps Michael and Kells were a few paces from the bird?
Either that or the skid zombie did come running from behind one of the tied down helicopters. I am assuming they landed on the main helipad at the intersection of Inner Loop Rd. and 5th Street. I'm curious as to what is at Bicycle Lake Army Airfield. Any chance at finding a plane for long distances?
Seems likely the base was overrun. going by the presence of 'tied down' choppers. Can't imagine why any surviving soldiers wouldn't try to use those babies if they were just sitting there the whole time. Pegs can't be the only person in Southern Cali that ever had some flight training...Quote:
Originally Posted by reaper239
Bicycle Lake Army Airfield is a fancy designation for what is basically a dry lakebed. There aren't any fixed wing aviation assets stationed there. Sometimes training aviation units will set up helicopter operations there, or the Air Force will use it to drop cargo from C-130s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventureless_Hero
By the way, whenever it rains Bicycle Lake fills with water and looks like a big, blue lake. I wonder if that's the body of water they saw as the helicopter was approaching the base?
I noticed that a lot of you are checking out the images of Fort Irwin on Google Maps and other on-line map sites. Here's a fun fact, the maps appear to have been redacted! To start with, almost the entire Goldstone Deep Space Communications Complex is missing. You can see the buildings, but all of this is missing Attachment 1537
Makes me wonder what else might be missing!
To me, the tied down copters means the airfield is safe for the most part. That's how I read into it.
Anyway, I would have assumed Mike to have a "Plan B" or alt landing spot in case the post didn't work out.
They are in the Joly Green Giant, right? Does that even have skids? In my hazy memmory, I remember JG's being towed about. Maybe I am wrong. Skids have way more friction than tires and to save weight, I do not think one would have both. I do not recall the landing gear being retractable. But, there could easily be many models.
Buzzing the Base, Unless Coast Guard Choppers are a common occurance at Ft. Irwin, I think it would generate a recognition response from an intelligent human. I do not think the average dumb zombie could "fake it".
Radio. There are a hell of a lot of channels on the radio, but unless someone %^*&(%^&* with the radio it should be on a marine (oceanic not as Burt) emergency channel. I do not know military protocol for emergencies. But, I would think chopper would be remain stationary with the base the oblication to tune to the proper frequency.
Like Crowbar states, I take the tied down choppers as the base is / was controlled. A zombie panic would probably have them moved. But, if the initial zombie assault is repulsed valuable assests would be protected as per standard operating proceedures.
We hear them say they see "people" The number of people must be low or they would not land. If the number of survivors on base is low, I can see them spending much time in lock-down as was done in the tower. A few zombie doing the Ikky Shuffle would not be a concern. Pegs did not spend much time circling, so if there are reinforcements I would expect them to come from the buildings soon, but can accept not yet.
I can see the tension after the zombies are killed and the humans come out. Datu Draws down on them, shoots, misses. The people shout, Don't shoot we're alive! Then according to all my ol' drinking buddies I have to drink because of reference to the title....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabbage Patch
Probably a function of the previous VP. He took the need to know way over the top such that even the brand of toilet peper was top secret.
O yea, I was talking to my freind Zapp last night. He reminded me that the Army is always evil in the zombie apocolypse. I wonder if it will be any different here? Michael, Angel and Saul were "in" the army, but I consider them main characters. They are not THE Army (which we have yet to meet)