Chapter 41-1 Eye of the Storm

[nikvoodoo]

Happy release Monday! Hope you had a good two week lay off!

[ZombieWildfire]

I'm already poised and waiting to pounce on the next episode...

Can't wait to see if we are going to find out more about what happened in the colony last week, or is we are going to see Bur and Riley again...

[skankyfish]

I WANT colony. I think we're going to get Burt and Riley. But that's ok, because I <3 Riley :D

[Hellbringer]

maybe we'll find more out about Victor.

[Gnex]

LETS DO IT!!!!! :mad:

[UndeadSweeper]

The CJ Defense Force here! Setup in my weapon cache corner wait for incoming CJ haters. :D Let's do this. Happy Monday, everyone!

[Footbutt]

my predictions:
Datu will miraculously received a phone call from his family in Luzon, only to be a "Life-Line" in the Philipino version of Who Wants to be a Millionare? He will slowly turn into a Z-man with his last human thought wondering if his brother would accept the answer of "B: Tony Danza".

[Gnex]

In this Chapter we will be introduced to a new character..... it is a guy named KC... he is a writer and has been traveling around the last few seasons...... he has finally made his way to the Colony....... They let him inside and he walks right up to CJ and says "No one likes you!!!" and then BANG..... he shoots her! Best Chapter Ever!!! :D

[katlero]

Do we even know a title yet? Has the artwork been posted?!

[skankyfish]

Do we even know a title yet? Has the artwork been posted?!

Nope, nothing yet! And only 45 minutes til the usual time the episodes go live. The tension is palpable...

[TacticalJHP]

In this Chapter we will be introduced to a new character..... it is a guy named KC... he is a writer and has been traveling around the last few seasons...... he has finally made his way to the Colony....... They let him inside and he walks right up to CJ and says "No one likes you!!!" and then BANG..... he shoots her! Best Chapter Ever!!! :D

No, no.... KC = Michael.


Now, if Michael walks right up to CJ and says "No one likes you!!!" even if he does not shoot her, i'm still going to smile.

[Gnex]

Do we even know a title yet? Has the artwork been posted?!


Chapter Title is "Death of the Queen"

Artwork is CJ being deaded...... O_o

[Footbutt]

how 'bout "Arrows, Spears, and Shields"?
-it will focus on Riley/Burt/Scratch. hehe

[LiamKerrington]

How about "Scratching old bones ..."
Then this chapter would be about most badass survivoress against uncle sam's misguided child no1 - so Scratch vs. Burt ...

[ZombieWildfire]

The CJ Defense Force here! Setup in my weapon cache corner wait for incoming CJ haters. :D Let's do this. Happy Monday, everyone!

I'm with you, Undead. Well, when I say I'm with you, I mean I'm only in it for my own good, and I'll only think about myself when TSHTF...

[Gooer]

That's...uh...an interesting chapter title, that's for sure....

I'm thinking it will be Burt+Riley; we have an amazing cliffhanger about Datu's fate, and its gunna stay that way for a bit at least...

[Gnex]

Excitement Rising.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Footbutt]

"Eye of the Storm" ...it's out!

[TacticalJHP]

Eye of the storm...

[Gooer]

How do you know? i'm a stupid.....

Edit: Nvm, found it on iTunes...

[LiamKerrington]

"Eye of the Beholder" - my first thought ...

[UndeadSweeper]

"Eye of the Storm" ...it's out!

Only fueling my theory that Raiden is all behind this.

[TacticalJHP]

#9 is dead!!

[Gooer]

Well we're with Datu....didn't expect that...And he shot the turned Jay because he didn't kill him....? Because Datu is infected maybe....?

[LiamKerrington]

Well we're with Datu....didn't expect that...And he shot the turned Jay because he didn't kill him....? Because Datu is infected maybe....?

Keep listening ...

[Gnex]

BIG TIME DATU!!!! NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!!! :omgomg:

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

"Eye of the Beholder" - my first thought ...

THAC0 you, bro!

[skankyfish]

I'm numb. Poor Datu :(

[Footbutt]

i'll just say, Datu deserves his own Chapter.

[Gnex]

Datu is my hero!!!!

[LiamKerrington]

I really feel bad right now. Especially with the closing lines of this chapter. Man, and that right before Christmas - what an X-Mess ...

[Gnex]

Still Hate CJ!

[Gooer]

Man...... I have no words......the feels i'm having right now.....*sheds a tear* DATUUUUUUUUU!!!!.......

[Kc]

Still Hate CJ!

I was talking about that with Liam in the VIP room. It seems like no matter what she says or does, as long as she shows any opposition to Michael or other established characters, she will be hated.

[Witch_Doctor]

Jay was buried with his drivers license! Ha! :cool:

[Storm]

I don't even know what to say... This is just...sad. He's even digging his own grave.

[Gnex]

I was talking about that with Liam in the VIP room. It seems like no matter what she says or does, as long as she shows any opposition to Michael or other established characters, she will be hated.

You could always have her and Michael Hook up KC........ That might change opinions!! :omgomg:

[Kc]

You could always have her and Michael Hook up KC........ That might change opinions!! :omgomg:

Some plot lines I would never rule out. THAT, just ain't happening ;)

[Gnex]

If this episode doesn't warrant a stocking full of Coal I don't know what does!!!!!

[Grognaurd]

So, Glenn got munched so bad there was too much damage to turn. Jay was injured and initiated a turn very quickly. Does Jay not attack Datu because Jay senses the infection in Datu or does Jay have enough humanity left to not attack his friend?

My hope is that Datu's change results in a smart one with free will to help the colony. He says he can feel the change, but in season one he could not feel his legs after the pumping station and that turned out to be a false alarm.

Lots of empathy from CJ and that was really nice. I hope it was not an act.

[daveyman23]

This episode broke my heart.

But on a discussion note, I think Tanya is wrong. I really do. Tanya, Saul, and now apparently Datu are immune. There is no such thing as an ultra-slow turner.

[Witch_Doctor]

"Datu is going to die."

.....Happy Holidays Everyone


ARE YOU FREEKING KIDDING ME?

[HardKor]

I think we're in for a gut wrenching chapter here.

First thing: Datu's Matta Gun actually worked. He took down the little one that attack, but just got overrun by a bunch of regulars. I think we'd all assumed it was a failure but it looks like it is going to be a viable weapon, in the right situations.

And now for the big stuff:
It looks like this chapter is going to be a long journey. Datu is bit and is slowly turning, but he's still going strong at the end, so I'm guessing this is going to get drawn out until the end of part 3 at least.
But the thing is, we really haven't seen major characters die in this sort of long, drawn out, fashion before. Tommy turned suddenly, Kalani went out in a blaze of glory, and Angel lingered a little but died pretty suddenly from Scratch's bullet. I hope if Datu does go out, he doesn't linger. That would just be torture to hear.
I can see this all playing out in one of two ways: Datu hangs in there long enough for Tanya to realize his K18 levels have frozen in place the same way hers and Saul's have, causing her to wonder if there isn't some similarities between all of them. And then either:
1) She figures out some kind of breakthrough to save Datu as well as Saul and herself or...
2) Datu looks to be out of the woods and then turns suddenly, shocking everyone and leaving Tanya to wonder if the same thing is going to happen to her and Saul.

It really depends on if KC wants to give us a light at the end of the tunnel or if he want to kick us in the gut with a sudden main character death. But, like I said, I just can't imagine Datu going out in a slow, lingering, inevitable death, I think there's gonna be some twists and turns in there.

[Witch_Doctor]

So, Glenn got munched so bad there was too much damage to turn. Jay was injured and initiated a turn very quickly. Does Jay not attack Datu because Jay senses the infection in Datu or does Jay have enough humanity left to not attack his friend?

My hope is that Datu's change results in a smart one with free will to help the colony. He says he can feel the change, but in season one he could not feel his legs after the pumping station and that turned out to be a false alarm.

Lots of empathy from CJ and that was really nice. I hope it was not an act.

I kept thinking about that too until they mentioned the scratches and the bite (On the neck no less). He goes into shock (or something like it) rather easily. I'm hoping that Datu's fainting-goat syndrome might save him.

[Witch_Doctor]

"I've been in his shoes. I remember all too well.", "People can still be useful after they've been bitten." Tanya is making this personal, with good reason.

[Storm]

Kinda funny how Jay ended up getting killed by the reallyfuckingheavyomatic...
...I really need to listen to this episode some more times before I can put my thoughts together. But at least the Mata-gun worked.

[UndeadSweeper]

Does K18 have anything to do with skin tone? Just an odd thought but the slow turner have had a darker skin tone eg. Datu, Tanya and Saul.

[TacticalJHP]

Still Hate CJ!


I was talking about that with Liam in the VIP room. It seems like no matter what she says or does, as long as she shows any opposition to Michael or other established characters, she will be hated.

I don't think it's that.

I liked her a lot when we first met her. She may have been controlling at Dunbar with Saul and Victor, but she made decisions that kept them safe...for the most part. Did they make any progress? Not really, but stayed safe.

Now, the "rescue Lizzy and save the colony" plan is where a lot of her faults started appearing. Good on paper, bad in practice.

Then as she runs the colony, with more people then she has had under her command, more problems arise. More leadership is needed and instead of delegating, she keeps it all to herself with her micromanaging.

In this episode, she actually pulled up her big girl panties and let the people around her know the situations as they are...which she should have done long ago. When she did that, they understood. They acted. They worked as a TEAM. Even poor Datu worked knowing he could be gone at any moment, because he finally understood WHY it was important.

Still hate CJ, but hate her less. If she acts like that more often, I'll start the CJ fan club.

[7oddisdead]

wow...what a punch in the balls.

I knew this was a possibility, but damn. this one was painful to listen to.

good on micheal for calling out cj. and good on cj for actually acting like a human. ya know, maybe if that happened a little more often all the hate she gets here wouldn't happen. a good leader shouldn't show weakness, but showing compassion for those around you is not a sign of weakness. its a sign of strength. the strongest, most stoic leaders are probly the most compassionate. not that anyone would ever know.

but that's all a candle in the wind compared to DATU> JEEBUS KC, YOU ACTUALLY DID IT.

[Gnex]

"Datu is going to die."

.....Happy Holidays Everyone


ARE YOU FREEKING KIDDING ME?

I agree.......

"Datu is Going to Die!" "Next Episode will be delayed" "Happy Holidays from the We're Alive Crew!"

REALLY?!?!?!?!

Time to return all these christmas gifts I bought them all.....!!!!!!!

[nikvoodoo]

Since I haven't listened and I refuse to search through the thread to see who may have done it: Thanks for changing the thread title!

[Grognaurd]

Well, still in a bit of shock even after two weeks. The entire spectrum is open for Datu. KC could have him go into super slowmo mode like Saul and Tanya. Maybe he is dies or even defects and joins team Ink and or Randy. We just do not know.

But, what was the purpose of the attack originally? Was it just wandering damage? That an inkling thought it could turn two humans? Food? My thought after 40-3 was it was an attack on water resource. That failed too, if it was the plan. I am pretty sure I heard something run away in 40-3. Was it out of fear? No gun truck, but the pesky humans were still able to kill an inkling. If a normal ran away, that is actually good news. We did not hear it get called away and it was not acting like a mindless eating machine. If it values its own life, than it can be bargained with. It is a start.

[Witch_Doctor]

You know what makes this episode so gut wrenching to me. It reminds of the time time I got bad news about my dog's health.

What are the options?
Will she get better?
How long does she have?
Is she in pain?
Do we let nature take its course?
When do we say good bye?
How can we think about these things when she seems to be OK?
What's going on in her mind?
How can you say Good Bye when you might be the one sending them away?

You feel extremely protective, never want to leave their side, you want to squeeze as many life-times as possible into each minute, and you feel awkward at having control over how long they have before nature takes over.

[Grognaurd]

Since I haven't listened and I refuse to search through the thread to see who may have done it: Thanks for changing the thread title!

It was King Datu the resourceful. Buries his friends, digs his own grave, fixes the pump and changes the chapter title. He looks out for us!

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Great episode - and guys: Datu is not dead until he is dead. A brave little man.

Well, a short remark about CJ: in my opinion, I did not expect her to know so much about most of the colony's inhabitants biographies because most of CJ's recent conversations at the colony (season 4 timeframe) went not too well. So, "counselor" CJ seems to do most of her "Get-to-know" meetings in between the episodes.

[Merlin1274]

Heavy heart. Out of all of the shit the guy has been through. I thought he would be one of the ones to make it to the end.
I will have a Beer tonight in Honor of King Datu: The Resourceful.

As mentioned. If he has to go out. He deserves a whole chapter about it.. Man the gut wrencher will be when Hope finds out.

[Witch_Doctor]

Well, still in a bit of shock even after two weeks. The entire spectrum is open for Datu. KC could have him go into super slowmo mode like Saul and Tanya. Maybe he is dies or even defects and joins team Ink and or Randy. We just do not know.

But, what was the purpose of the attack originally? Was it just wandering damage? That an inkling thought it could turn two humans? Food? My thought after 40-3 was it was an attack on water resource. That failed too, if it was the plan. I am pretty sure I heard something run away in 40-3. Was it out of fear? No gun truck, but the pesky humans were still able to kill an inkling. If a normal ran away, that is actually good news. We did not hear it get called away and it was not acting like a mindless eating machine. If it values its own life, than it can be bargained with. It is a start.

Or it could have been a smart one.
Somehow I keep thinking that the Inklings are being used as Ink's version of the gun trucks for the various zombie missions.

[clem131]

I don't think it's that.

I liked her a lot when we first met her. She may have been controlling at Dunbar with Saul and Victor, but she made decisions that kept them safe...for the most part. Did they make any progress? Not really, but stayed safe.

Now, the "rescue Lizzy and save the colony" plan is where a lot of her faults started appearing. Good on paper, bad in practice.

Then as she runs the colony, with more people then she has had under her command, more problems arise. More leadership is needed and instead of delegating, she keeps it all to herself with her micromanaging.

In this episode, she actually pulled up her big girl panties and let the people around her know the situations as they are...which she should have done long ago. When she did that, they understood. They acted. They worked as a TEAM. Even poor Datu worked knowing he could be gone at any moment, because he finally understood WHY it was important.

Still hate CJ, but hate her less. If she acts like that more often, I'll start the CJ fan club.

For me is part this, part what KC says, especially I find it hard to forget or accept that had she had her way she would have sentenced Vic and Saul to death. The whole "like that matters to me" speech. So... nice emotional speech about Glenn sons, and Jay's girlfriend, I guess they are worth more than Saul's still not born child and girlfriend.
It's however interesting to get a commwnt from the writer to get an insight in what are the expectations on our reactions to the characters and story.

[Witch_Doctor]

I just LOVE CJ. Her real tragic flaw is letting her personal issues get in the way.

[Verse]

Dammit... Dammit...Dammit.

I haven't been upset over an episode in a long long time. Like I want to cry kinda episode. Hands down this may be the toughest episode of the series. It would be different if he would have been attacked and died. Fell from a window. This is just rough. My first thought was "God... what about Hope?". That is the father in me coming out though.

[cringebot]

Nope. No. Nope.

[Witch_Doctor]

What about Hope? I thought I heard her screaming his name, but it was Kelly instead. It's good to see Kelly's emotional side. That's a huge change from her cold, self-serving persona from the first season.

[katlero]

What I want to know is why everyone is freaking out so badly that Datu is going to die/is dying whereas Tanya and Saul are no big worry. They all know that Tanya was bit, but they aren't fretting that she's going to turn any minute.... With the way Robbins and co. are acting you'd think they couldn't handle being around Tanya too.... Something is just off that way for me.

[UndeadSweeper]

I'm guess Hope will become CJ's new Padawan. Continue her training in becoming not like by the forum. Remember the last time we saw Hope?

[cringebot]

If Datu has a some sort if immunity, then what could be the reason for it? So could the family immunity or the medication Tanya and Saul took may not be why?

[LiamKerrington]

Hi everyone.

About CJ:
I don'T hate her. I simply don't like her because of the way she treats people around. She keeps a lot of things to herself instead of realizing the opportunities to put weight on many shoulders. And when things go bad, she does not realize that part of the blame is to be put onto herself. It is a devil's circle, if you like.
BUT - and that is very important for me that anyone here understands this: I don't put more blame on CJ than she deserves. I especially do not draw conclusions like "because her attitute or demeanor is bad, she is responsible for anything going bad". The opposite is true. I really did not understand why Michael freaked out and pulled CJ from her one leg in order to show her what happened to Jay, Glenn, and Datu; and I don't accept him to blame CJ for anything that happened at the wind-mill-pumping station. And this applies for many smaller or bigger things - especially the fall of Dunbar: CJ was not responsible for that,
In my opinion it is very true that CJ plans for her safety. But many (if not all) of her plans are about saving others as well - at least because she understands that humans as a breed or species may only survive because single persons cannot survive on his or her own. CJ has understood this, and she was and still is willing to take the responsibility by making people act together - how fucking cold-blooded or harsh this may ever turn out.

The discussion I had with Kc was about CJ telling and forcing Michael to understand that she knows the people a lot better than he does; and she concludes that therefore she cares a lot more about the individuals of the Colony than Michael does. Her speech obviously was impressive enough for Michael to shut the f*ck up. And I even actually agree with her, but I am not convinced about what she says. Because that scene reminded me of a dialogue from the movie "Good Will Hunting": "You may have read how the smell of the Sistine Chapel underneath the paintings of Michealangelo is in a book; but this is totally different from having experienced this yourself." CJ tells Michael that she knows a lot of facts about the members of the Colony; but I don't see the human spirit of CJ's guiding her in her decisions. This is different from Michael: Michael knows shit about the people around him - probably his biggest flaw; but all his decisions are based on what people see in the uniform he wears. It was Michael who told Saul and Angel to wear the uniform in order to help people find out who are the good guys; and ever since Michael did only act and think on behalf helping or supporting others, and he let everyone know and made most people get involved as well. CJ simply yells orders, and people start doing things behind her back, when they find a moment in which they don't feel observed ... So, in other words, CJ pulls people together, but she has no skills in making people start feeling responsible for each other and caring for each other, which in return leads to misbehaviour and maybe even distrust (people left Dunbar because of CJ's treatments).

Hard to put it in English words, if you are not a native speaker. But I hope I was able to point you at my opinion about CJ. I don't hate her, I only do not like her. And I don't like blaming her for shit hitting the fan if these things are beyond her decisions ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Grognaurd]

What I want to know is why everyone is freaking out so badly that Datu is going to die/is dying whereas Tanya and Saul are no big worry. They all know that Tanya was bit, but they aren't fretting that she's going to turn any minute.... With the way Robbins and co. are acting you'd think they couldn't handle being around Tanya too.... Something is just off that way for me.

Speculation

The assay. Tanya is able to measure how fast the K18 levels change. Her level and Saul's level may be elevated, but change very slowly over the months since they were exposed. She has a few measurements from Datu and can see that it is elevated within minutes to hours.

The natural progression is a final destination of change, but like Burt says, prepare for the worse and hope for the best. Throughout history there is often a small population of people that can resist the disease. I can see it play out lots of different ways. Datu is fine. Datu has a partial change and recovers like a stroke victim. Datu dies, Datu escapes and joins ink. All of these are interesting and can drive the story forward.

[HardKor]

What I want to know is why everyone is freaking out so badly that Datu is going to die/is dying whereas Tanya and Saul are no big worry. They all know that Tanya was bit, but they aren't fretting that she's going to turn any minute.... With the way Robbins and co. are acting you'd think they couldn't handle being around Tanya too.... Something is just off that way for me.

Well it's still kinda up in the air as to whether Saul was actually infected or not as far as everyone else is concerned (Remember Tanya and Saul are keeping their elevated K18 levels to themselves), and Tanya was exposed nearly a year ago. So everyone just assumes that Saul and Tanya weren't infected since so much time has passed, but Datu's situation is happening right now in front of them.

[LiamKerrington]

For me this episode is so damn gut wrenching, 'cause currently I am willing to say that this is probably the really most awesome and most outstanding episode I have ever listened to. I was kind of...

[Grognaurd]

Doh,

Good point. Most of the people do not know about the assay. One serving of crow, since I did not hear any this episode...

[tonyhind86]

Oh man, Datu just can't seem to catch a break!

I reckon Tanya's going to make a major breakthrough when she does more tests on him. Anyone else catch his hesitation when he said he was attacked by a regular biter?

[Grognaurd]

UGH!

Going back to for a third listen after reading the forums. The happy go lucky host gator music is jarring! Lol

[Witch_Doctor]

What I want to know is why everyone is freaking out so badly that Datu is going to die/is dying whereas Tanya and Saul are no big worry. They all know that Tanya was bit, but they aren't fretting that she's going to turn any minute.... With the way Robbins and co. are acting you'd think they couldn't handle being around Tanya too.... Something is just off that way for me.

I think it is because the extent of their infections wasn't really known until long after they would have turned. Datu was recently bitten so a turn for him seems like it could be immanent. However, I wonder if anyone else in the Colony knew Tanya was bitten before she escaped with Micheal, Pegs and Kelly.

[Witch_Doctor]

Oh man, Datu just can't seem to catch a break!

I reckon Tanya's going to make a major breakthrough when she does more tests on him. Anyone else catch his hesitation when he said he was attacked by a regular biter?

Yeah, I thought he as feeling sheepish for not being taken out by a bad-ass Inkling.

[Gnex]

Next Episode - Michael and CJ in an attempt to build a stronger relationship...... challenge Ink and Randy to a 3-legged race!!!!!

[kent17]

Datu is immune because he is Saul's real dad...
Now we are going into a huge backstory about how Tanya did some volunteer work in the Philippines years ago and was pregnant when she got back....... DUN DUN DUNNN

[Witch_Doctor]

OK, so Jay walks away without attacking Datu. Presumably because Datu was exposed. But do the other bitters avoid Saul and Tanya? Since their exposures, they have only been attacked in the presence of other humans who might be the real targets, EXCEPT: Randy snatching Tanya and the Inkling attacking Saul. Have they been attacked or chased by any regulars, by themselves?

[Witch_Doctor]

Holy Smoke!!! On my iPod this looks like a puff of smoke. This is the clearest picture of an Abominable Behemoth, yet. Water pumping station anyone?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/WA_S4Dec15-FINAL.jpg

[7oddisdead]

Sooo....i wonder whats datu's blood type?

hmm.

[UndeadSweeper]

Holy Smoke!!! On my iPod this looks like a puff of smoke. This is the clearest picture of an Abominable Behemoth, yet. Water pumping station anyone?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/WA_S4Dec15-FINAL.jpg

CJ make Micheal finally tell us the water pumping station story! Or may he tells Datu the story to keep him focus throughout the night.

[Witch_Doctor]

Sooo....i wonder whats datu's blood type?

hmm.

Yeah, I was looking up Filipino blood types too when someone posted a question about darker skinned people having a stronger tolerance to the infection. But if the skin color were a factor then I'm sure that would have been pointed out already. So, blood might seem to make more sense.

[tonyhind86]

OK, so Jay walks away without attacking Datu. Presumably because Datu was exposed. But do the other bitters avoid Saul and Tanya? Since their exposures, they have only been attacked in the presence of other humans who might be the real targets, EXCEPT: Randy snatching Tanya and the Inkling attacking Saul. Have they been attacked or chased by any regulars, by themselves?

I can't recall Saul or Tanya being chased by regulars whilst they're alone. I do recall Saul's sweat bottle in Season 1 not attracting any biters.

[Witch_Doctor]

...Or may he tells Datu the story to keep him focus throughout the night.

Yes!! Micheal's tuna fish sandwich story!

[7oddisdead]

Holy Smoke!!! On my iPod this looks like a puff of smoke. This is the clearest picture of an Abominable Behemoth, yet. Water pumping station anyone?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/WA_S4Dec15-FINAL.jpg

hell yea! Good catch doc! (well, way to pay attention, I think we are a lil distracted..) does this mean?.......story time!?!?!?!?!.....

shoot...pegs is calling

[Witch_Doctor]

I can't recall Saul or Tanya being chased by regulars whilst they're alone. I do recall Saul's sweat bottle in Season 1 not attracting any biters.

Yep.

[TacticalJHP]

Does anyone else think it was a little bit cold of EVERYONE not to bring Hope out to see (errr...talk to) Datu and let her say goodbye?

I mean, come on, she may be the closest person to Datu. They have been through SOOOOO MUCH together, and everyone was willing to go ahead and shoot or inject Datu without letting them say goodbye?

Does Hope even know he has been bit yet?

That is just cold. O_o

[7oddisdead]

Yeah, I was looking up Filipino blood types too when someone posted a question about darker skinned people having a stronger tolerance to the infection. But if the skin color were a factor then I'm sure that would have been pointed out already. So, blood might seem to make more sense.

ok I'll spell it out.

is he compatible with saul/tanya.?

[TacticalJHP]

Yes!! Micheal's tuna fish sandwich story!

I think that was Burt...

But i get what you are saying.

I hope he spills the beans already...

[Gnex]

Holy Smoke!!! On my iPod this looks like a puff of smoke. This is the clearest picture of an Abominable Behemoth, yet. Water pumping station anyone?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/WA_S4Dec15-FINAL.jpg

WOAH!!! maybe Datu turns into a Behemoth!!!!

[Gnex]

I think Datu is still going to be ok........ we know that he is easy to freak out sometimes..... like when he couldn't feel his legs....... And the only 2 people there when he had that episode were Angel and Riley, neither of which are there now to see and remember Datu freaking out.

Datu is going to be ok..... he will make a speedy recovery!!!!!

[Gooer]

I don't even know what to say... This is just...sad. He's even digging his own grave.

That's what makes it even more depressing..... Makes it sound like he's a victim of a mafia gang....

[Gooer]

Watched The Walking Dead mid-season 4 finale yesterday....Listened to this today.....I CANT TAKE ANYMORE SAD STORY PLOTS.......

[Witch_Doctor]

ok I'll spell it out.

is he compatible with saul/tanya.?
LOL, Yeah, I know that's what you were getting at.


I think that was Burt...

But i get what you are saying.

I hope he spills the beans already...

Sorry I meant Micheal's version of the tuna fish sandwich story.


Man, I'm so excited, I not making any sense. O_o

[UndeadSweeper]

LOL, Yeah, I know that's what you were getting at.

I love how everyones is tip-toe around the question. :D

[Gooer]

Dammit... Dammit...Dammit.

I haven't been upset over an episode in a long long time. Like I want to cry kinda episode.

I know the feels bro, i know the feels....

[Grognaurd]

A long while ago, I had this :tinfoil: theory about a close call with a biter and subsequent sleep. My speculation was these people received a little exposure, but did not change. If we go back to the germ theory of disease, the immune system may overcome a little exposure and be primed ready to attack the disease if it later gets a big dose.

My hope is something like his plays out here... I want Datu to be OK!

A quick example
Michael etal clear out the tower. Michael naps by the door and then rescues Lizzy. Then he sleeps for 24 hours. As Saul says, there was no waking you Sarge...

Similarly, Datu sleeps after the arena. Might be nothing, but we got two weeks and I would rather party with my :tinfoil: than mope around...

So, the contagion gets a jump on Datu and pushes on his K18 levels, but then his immune system fights back and fights the disease to a standstill.

[Witch_Doctor]

Speculation

The assay. Tanya is able to measure how fast the K18 levels change. Her level and Saul's level may be elevated, but change very slowly over days. She has a few measurements from Datu and can see that it is elevated and increasing rapidly.

The natural progression is a final destination of change, but like Burt says, prepare for the worse and hope for the best. Throughout history there is often a small population of people that can resist the disease. I can see it play out lots of different ways. Datu is fine. Datu has a partial change and recovers like a stroke victim. Datu dies, Datu escapes and joins ink. All of these are interesting and can drive the story forward.

This makes so much more sense now that I looked up the word assay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assay).
Tanya hasn't said if their K18 levels are still changing or at what rate. She said that they were just past stage one and that Datu is barely there. Also,just how much time has passed since his infection, compared to Wendy's turn rate?

[Gooer]

About Tanya and Saul; despite the fact that they have been bitten, their K18 levels are just at stage one, and they were infected nearly a year ago. On the other hand, we have Datu, who after just being bit, is already at the beginning of stage one, which is why people are more worried about Datu. Also, only Saul, Tanya and Victor only know about their levels, so no one is in speculation about those two.

As Kc said, not everyone will make it to the end. As much as it pains me to say; we might not see Datu be fortunate enough to make it that far....

[Witch_Doctor]

Next Episode - Michael and CJ in an attempt to build a stronger relationship...... challenge Ink and Randy to a 3-legged race!!!!!

The mental image I got of CJ with her one leg in a sack, strapped to Micheal's side....... :cool:

[Grognaurd]

This makes so much more sense now that I looked up the word assay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assay).
Tanya hasn't said if their K18 levels are still changing or at what rate. She said that they were just past stage one and that Datu is barely there. Also,just how much time has passed since his infection, compared to Wendy's turn rate?

Much much longer for Datu. He had time to compose himself and Jay change. Then, have Michael call Tanya down, Tanya go back to get the blood machine and then drive back. Figure each trip is 45 - 60 minutes from the colony to Dunbar?

Crap, In my mind I thought Tanya said he was at stage 2. He is only stage 1. HELL YA! I feel so much better...

[Witch_Doctor]

Me too. Only stage one. He says he can feel himself changing, or he knows he's changing. Dang it Datu, I know you have a lot on your mind, but details!
Also, just where the heck was Jay going off to? Did he have some sort of zombie orientation appointment to go to?

[Gooer]

Holy Smoke!!! On my iPod this looks like a puff of smoke. This is the clearest picture of an Abominable Behemoth, yet. Water pumping station anyone?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/WA_S4Dec15-FINAL.jpg

AT LAST! We will FINALLY get some answers about Michael's arm, and possibly Randy too...?

[Gooer]

A long while ago, I had this :tinfoil: theory about a close call with a biter and subsequent sleep. My speculation was these people received a little exposure, but did not change. If we go back to the germ theory of disease, the immune system may overcome a little exposure and be primed ready to attack the disease if it later gets a big dose.

My hope is something like his plays out here... I want Datu to be OK!

A quick example
Michael etal clear out the tower. Michael naps by the door and then rescues Lizzy. Then he sleeps for 24 hours. As Saul says, there was no waking you Sarge...

Similarly, Datu sleeps after the arena. Might be nothing, but we got two weeks and I would rather party with my :tinfoil: than mope around...

So, the contagion gets a jump on Datu and pushes on his K18 levels, but then his immune system fights back and fights the disease to a standstill.

I don't think Michael has been exposed yet, unless some blood got swallowed during the clearance of the tower.....?

[7oddisdead]

AT LAST! We will FINALLY get some answers about Michael's arm, and possibly Randy too...?

I like the idea of Michael knowing something of slow turning from his interaction with Randy. That could tie everything together, and present his arm story in a way that makes sense within what's happening now.

good stuff!

[Nathan.Luiz]

I don't see Datu surviving this. I think he may make it until the end of the chapter, but that's it.

Judging on the episode artwork, I'm going to guess how I think the story will progress: The well cannot be fixed (or Datu dies before is able to fix it/able to give enough information to the others for them to fix it), which leads to a new mission to the water works. We then get the present storyline spliced with Michael's memories from last time, culminating in Michael and whoever else goes running into the behemoth that was there last time, and possibly Randy.

[7oddisdead]

I gotta wonder also (about the artwork)...

that behemoth look a little "pale" to anyone else??

[Witch_Doctor]

I don't think Michael has been exposed yet, unless some blood got swallowed during the clearance of the tower.....?

I've always had a nagging suspicion that Micheal was exposed and it not letting anyone know the details of his injury. Just a suspicion, nothing else, really. If this is the case, then maybe this will bring the story to light. Maybe to save Datu from the death panel.

The Chapter Title, "Eye of the Storm" is a bit unsettling too. It implies a lull in the turmoil that is about to pick up again. I worry the the lull may be the final hours with Datu before he goes, or maybe a false sense of hope that everything is OK, then things fall too pieces.

It's good see that Datu is still a trooper and working diligently to save the Colony in the face of a certain death (Spock-in-the-Wrath-of-Khan Style). I was kind of expecting CJ to mention Datu's two children in the Philippines, who he hoped were still alive, and he was trying to stay alive long enough to return to.

[Witch_Doctor]

I gotta wonder also (about the artwork)...

that behemoth look a little "pale" to anyone else??

Could be because of the Christmas Season.

2886

The Abominable Behemoth

[7oddisdead]

Could be because of the Christmas Season.

2886

The Abominable Behemoth

:squint:

really?...



:hsugh:

[Gooer]

I like the idea of Michael knowing something of slow turning from his interaction with Randy. That could tie everything together, and present his arm story in a way that makes sense within what's happening now.


I've always had a nagging suspicion that Micheal was exposed and it not letting anyone know the details of his injury. Just a suspicion, nothing else, really. If this is the case, then maybe this will bring the story to light. Maybe to save Datu from the death panel.

That.......that could be possible..... makes a lot of sense, considering how Michael is reluctant to share what happened at the water works, and no one knows the connection between him and Randy..... But then again, He was about to tell Puck about the story before Pegs interrupted, and i'm not entirely sure how Puck would handle the news if Michael told him that he was possibly infected..

[Gooer]

Could be because of the Christmas Season.

2886

The Abominable Behemoth

The link doesn't work for me :/

[7oddisdead]

Me either.


I have an insane, crackpot idea relating to all this turning/not turning talk...time to fire up the old blog me thinks...its out there....waaaay out there

[Gooer]

Me either.


I have an insane, crackpot idea relating to all this turning/not turning talk...time to fire up the old blog me thinks...its out there....waaaay out there

Here we go.

[LiamKerrington]

Hi.

Thank you, Witch_Doctor, for addressing the Chapter-image ... A Yeti-Slash-Albino-Behemoth at what looks like the-slash-a water pumping facility ... What's the meaning of that? And how does this correspond with the title of this chapter - Eye of the Storm?

And in general: What are your opinions on the meaning of the chapter's title?

Best wishes!
Liam

[Z Sniper]

Still Hate CJ!

This made me crack up!

[Gooer]

I agree with Witch_Doctor: Trouble will be coming, and I don't think it will end with just Datu. Something will happen at the water works, will which somehow trigger Michael to tell his story. Also, with the way Michael treated CJ (Which i probably would of done the same too), I don't think we'll hear the end of it. And, to top it all off, I'm betting something else no one knows of will happen....

[Z Sniper]

Some plot lines I would never rule out. THAT, just ain't happening ;)

OH COME ON!,....not just one little kissy-kissy?.......an elbow nudge?,........a cheesy wink? Nothing?!

[7oddisdead]

OH COME ON!,....not just one little kissy-kissy?.......an elbow nudge?,........a cheesy wink? Nothing?!

in for the cheesy elbows....

[Elisa]

What did you guys think of the attitude of Puck and Robbins, a little callous towards Datu no? I am so glad that Michael went at CJ and gave her a piece of his mind. Team Michael :yay: :p

[UndeadSweeper]

This made me crack up!

Don't encourage them. :squint:

Also your status said you have only killed 40 zombies?! That what you do before breakfast.

[Gooer]

What did you guys think of the attitude of Puck and Robbins, a little callous towards Datu no? I am so glad that Michael went at CJ and gave her a piece of his mind. Team Michael :yay: :p

I think they were just more scared about the fact he could turn, and weren't THAT close to him; On the other hand, we have Michael, who has been friends with him since the start, and considered one of his close friends, which he doesn't want to see hurt (or in this case, be turned)

[Gooer]

Anyone else notice how Michael once again refuses Victor's offer of help? I WANNA KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, MAN

[UndeadSweeper]

Anyone else notice how Michael once again refuses Victor's offer of help? I WANNA KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, MAN

The man make one bad burrito and he get stink-eye from months. It isn't Vic fault that he couldn't use real meat for it. Mrs. Moo was unavailable.

[Pikepaw]

Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck yyyyyyyyoooooooouuuuuuuuuu KC! And I mean that with love. Most heartrending episode for me since 23-2! Why Datu, lovable, lovable Datu...

Only thing I have hope for is that Tanya predicts the turning time wrong, with Datu changing early. We could have some good horror if zombie Datu is able to attack someone. But I am just going to go feel sad now. Probably punching something. First Paul Walker, then Nelson Mandela, now Glenn and Datu. Jay doesn't count because I am a cold SOB.

Very effective episode. I did like the re-emergence of "Dark Michael". Anyone else get the mental image of him grabbing CJ by the back of the neck to drag her to see the devastation.

[Kc]

Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck yyyyyyyyoooooooouuuuuuuuuu KC! And I mean that with love. Most heartrending episode for me since 23-2! Why Datu, lovable, lovable Datu...

Only thing I have hope for is that Tanya predicts the turning time wrong, with Datu changing early. We could have some good horror if zombie Datu is able to attack someone. But I am just going to go feel sad now. Probably punching something. First Paul Walker, then Nelson Mandela, now Glenn and Datu. Jay doesn't count because I am a cold SOB.

Very effective episode. I did like the re-emergence of "Dark Michael". Anyone else get the mental image of him grabbing CJ by the back of the neck to drag her to see the devastation.

Most confusing thing about this episode? Datu killed Jay. Datu's portrayed by Jay Olegario. I sometimes use the character names on set, rather than the actor's names... There were many confusing moments all the way down to editing this one. "Jay's too loud at that part"... "Which Jay?"

[clem131]

Holy Smoke!!! On my iPod this looks like a puff of smoke. This is the clearest picture of an Abominable Behemoth, yet. Water pumping station anyone?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/WA_S4Dec15-FINAL.jpg

Wow!!! I don't look at the artwork because for some reason it shows randomly on my phone, but at the beginning of the episode I thought it was the water pumping station and I thought "awesome way of telling us what happened: by surprise!". Now I think Michael is going to have to explain what happened as the last request of a dying Datu that for this more than for anything else will be our hero.

[7oddisdead]

Nobody has really mentioned it so I gotta say.


thank you KC for getting the reason the pump burnt up on datu right. Had he said anything else it probly would have driven me nuts.(!)

carry on.

[Grognaurd]

So, let us fix the pump / well problem for poor Datu. He cannot get the right current/voltage to the pump to lift the hydrostatic head up out of the ground. He keeps trying to supply more power to lift the head. Let's turn that around. Shrink the weight of the head.

The weight of the head is a function of the length of the pipe and the pipe diameter. Can he put pipes or sticks inside the pipe to occupy space to reduce the effective diameter of the pipe? They do not have to run the big generator 24/7 to get enough water for the colony, it seems they just have to use it because it is the only thing with enough power. My guess, it is over engineered. Shrink the head Datu...

:tinfoil: just a guess...

We have this ( ).... Maybe we can turn it into this (o) and reduce the amount of power required

I have no idea if it will work, I am not an engineer, I am a general manager that lives outside of the box, helping techies redefine their problems with fresh eyes

[7oddisdead]

Exactly right.

also could explore the idea of an aquaduct type system once the water is out of the ground well. A large storage vessel above ground close to the pump would lessen the front strain of pushing water to the colony. From there allow gravity to do the work for you

[nikvoodoo]

I agree with those who are curious about Hope and why he didn't call for her.

Fantastic episode. Heart wrenching episode! I think there's something to be said about the zombies knowing someone is turning. Because they witnessed the attack We saw Ink be attacked and then left to turn. Jay treats Datu the same. Curiouser and curiouser.

[Kc]

I agree with those who are curious about Hope and why he didn't call for her.

Don't worry, that'll be addressed later. But it makes sense why you wouldn't want to bring a blind girl into a potential attack site. :squint:

[nikvoodoo]

Don't worry, that'll be addressed later. But it makes sense why you wouldn't want to bring a blind girl into a potential attack site. :squint:

I actually think it would be good for her. Put some uh.... Hair on her chest?

I meant more along the lines of wanting to call her on the radio. Not actually have hope go to the water pump.

[werewolf]

lets face it Datu has balls of steel. willing to dig the graves of Jay and Glen. then wanting to dig his own grave. then willing to try to fix the windmill, before he dies.

[Merlin1274]

I actually think it would be good for her. Put some uh.... Hair on her chest?

I meant more along the lines of wanting to call her on the radio. Not actually have hope go to the water pump.
Kinda like the End of Armageddon When He has to tell his Daughter he has to break his promise and he is not coming home. That's the only part in a movie that made me shed a tear.

[Eviebae]

I was talking about that with Liam in the VIP room. It seems like no matter what she says or does, as long as she shows any opposition to Michael or other established characters, she will be hated.

It's more important to have someone excellent but emotionally over-controlled as a leader than one who's emotionally wrought. It gives people confidence and that seems like part of the battle.

Over and over I've seen people predict what will happen based on what would usually happen on TV etc. The usual trope would be for her to be covering up for her ineptitude or being a bitch for bitches sake. If you expect that, that colors your perceptions.

[Storm]

Don't worry, that'll be addressed later. But it makes sense why you wouldn't want to bring a blind girl into a potential attack site. :squint:

Come on, I bet she's got some amazing DareDevil skills - it's even raining quite a lot, so she'd be perfectly fine... Couldn't choose a better time to send her out than now! :)
She's gotta learn how to survive, know that her life as an optically challenged individual ain't gonna be sugar and roses all the time...
Being blind myself I must say though that you've done a great job creating that character, seems realistic enough to me. I remember a Danish audio drama in which there was a blind girl as well. For some reason the writers of that drama had never heard about Braille - or maybe they just didn't think of it - so even though it was taking place in our time she couldn't read nor write at all... And seemed quite lost, confused, and much more helpless than you'd expect. Needless to say, I wasn't that happy about that specific character. Fortunately you haven't done such a thing yet, and I'm grateful for for that.

*Turns away from the WA-lord to face the other fans* Something I kinda just thought of... We all heard the zombie biting Datu talk, right? Datu's now telling us that it was a regular, though... But they can't talk.......... Can they??

[Gooer]

Come on, I bet she's got some amazing DareDevil skills - it's even raining quite a lot, so she'd be perfectly fine... Couldn't choose a better time to send her out than now! :)
She's gotta learn how to survive, know that her life as an optically challenged individual ain't gonna be sugar and roses all the time...
Being blind myself I must say though that you've done a great job creating that character, seems realistic enough to me. I remember a Danish audio drama in which there was a blind girl as well. For some reason the writers of that drama had never heard about Braille - or maybe they just didn't think of it - so even though it was taking place in our time she couldn't read nor write at all... And seemed quite lost, confused, and much more helpless than you'd expect. Needless to say, I wasn't that happy about that specific character. Fortunately you haven't done such a thing yet, and I'm grateful for for that.

*Turns away from the WA-lord to face the other fans* Something I kinda just thought of... We all heard the zombie biting Datu talk, right? Datu's now telling us that it was a regular, though... But they can't talk.......... Can they??

When did you hear it talk? I don't quite remember, haven't listened to the last episode for week or so....

[Storm]

When did you hear it talk? I don't quite remember, haven't listened to the last episode for week or so....

I'm quite sure at least a few of us heard it say something like "kill" or "get up" at 16:50. Maybe I was just imagining that part, but I remember that taking up a few of those 55 pages written about 40.3.

[Gnex]

This made me crack up!

Glad I could help!!!

[Gnex]

Don't worry, that'll be addressed later. But it makes sense why you wouldn't want to bring a blind girl into a potential attack site. :squint:

All I know is the minute I heard Pegs voice, I said Pegs??!?!?? Really?!?? Why the heck is Pegs here?!?? Where is Hope?!???

[TacticalJHP]

Don't worry, that'll be addressed later. But it makes sense why you wouldn't want to bring a blind girl into a potential attack site. :squint:

It does make sense not to bring the blind girl to the attack site...

But in the location you already have:
1. The military intelligence sergeant
2. the lawyer
3. the doctor
4. the badass ex-insurance salesman
5. the gun-shy gardener
6. the one legged camp commandant
7. the helicopter pilot
8. the MP.
9. and others

all responding to the beloved mechanical genius' call for help and being with him as he turns/passes away, I still think that Hope should have been at least thrown in the truck and told to stay in it while she and Datu have their "I love you forever" moment. Or maybe i'm just a hopeless romantic.


Holy hell, when you break it down, this story REALLY has a motley crew. :p

[Gnex]

The only way I can accept Datu turning into a zombie is if his one final act is to take a big huge bite out of CJ!!!

[Tar Heel Fan]

The only way I can accept Datu turning into a zombie is if his one final act is to take a big huge bite out of CJ!!!

Though I may not share your view, gotta love your consistently creative CJ bashing

[Red Shirt]

Lots of empathy from CJ and that was really nice. I hope it was not an act.

Indeed. Though she did seem a bit choked up explaining to Micheal that she did care.


"I've been in his shoes. I remember all too well.", "People can still be useful after they've been bitten." Tanya is making this personal, with good reason.

I imagined her holding her arm up to punctuate that line.


Heavy heart. Out of all of the shit the guy has been through. I thought he would be one of the ones to make it to the end.
I will have a Beer tonight in Honor of King Datu: The Resourceful.

Before you pour one out for the homies... remember... he's still alive. There is still hope.


Sorry I meant Michael's version of the tuna fish sandwich story.

That might be some thing I start saying as comfort with a pat on the back when talking to people about histories.
It's OK, everybody has a tuna fish sandwich story.


I agree with those who are curious about Hope and why he didn't call for her.

He probably doesn't want her to see hear him like this.


All I know is the minute I heard Pegs voice, I said Pegs??!?!?? Really?!?? Why the heck is Pegs here?!?? Where is Hope?!???

See below. I was really expecting Riley and Burt to show up... they did have a radio with them when they left.

I have to agree with a lot of the sentiment about CJ here... I didn't hate her per se, but I didn't like her either.
I think that Michael and CJ might have put each other in their respective places. Michael with his outburst and CJ telling him he was wrong.

One thing that I hope is remembered by the characters and needs to be remembered by us here on the forum, is that Michael has known Datu since the very beginning. He started all of this on Z-Day with Angel, Saul, Pegs, Riley and Datu. He "lost" Datu, Pegs and Angel for four months and later found out that Angel was gone for good. Now, Riley is off in the wilderness of post Z-Day LA with Burt and has been gone for four months. These original six are as close, if not closer, to Michael as family. If the information we have gleaned from the show is to be trusted, they are more family to him than his own ever was. I think that Michael can be forgiven to a degree when it comes to Datu.

Multiple meanings for the title:

The storm itself.
The fallout at the Colony from the revelation of the attack at the well.
Michael and CJ aren't "done" with each other yet.
As the cover art may imply, Michael's "storm" at the water works.


2887
Not yet.

[Tar Heel Fan]

OK, so Jay walks away without attacking Datu. Presumably because Datu was exposed. But do the other bitters avoid Saul and Tanya? Since their exposures, they have only been attacked in the presence of other humans who might be the real targets, EXCEPT: Randy snatching Tanya and the Inkling attacking Saul. Have they been attacked or chased by any regulars, by themselves?

There must be significance to Jay leaving Datu alone... I mean, the scene played out before the opening credits!

Perhaps those with elevated K18 levels are not attractive to zombies. My guess: hearing the detail about Jay leaving Datu alone is going to trigger Michael's story about the pump station, where he encountered a slowly-turning Randy. Michael's favorite zombie had not yet fully turned and was in a similar state as Datu. The zombies ignored Randy, too, which is what allowed him to so effectively help Michael survive a place overrun with zombies and a behemoth. At the time, Randy's eyes were clear, too, which was why Michael was being so trusting of Datu.

[REZombie]

Very effective episode. I did like the re-emergence of "Dark Michael". Anyone else get the mental image of him grabbing CJ by the back of the neck to drag her to see the devastation.

I had the same image in my head! It was awesome. :D


Wow....havn't posted here much lately, due to work, family and such...but man...this one was rough! King Datu has been a favorite of mine since the start and i was hoping for more Datu...but not like this, lol. The poor guy has been through so much...i just hate it for him, and havn't been this upset since he lost Samantha...I mean the man was digging his own grave!


Glad to see that CJ does care about the people around her, but would still smile if a little one ripped her spine out in the next episode.


Here is my thought...I dont see Datu making it through this....he might, but just not in my opinion..I really dont see King Datu going out by being put down like a dog either... King Datu will do something EPIC saving everyone with his ingenuity one last time!!!


After listening the the first 3 season all at once, this keeping up with shows as they release is really hard! lol The wait each week is KILLING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looking forward to hearing about the water works soon too! That cover art is awesome!

BTW, we really need more Vic, Saul and a little Burt and Riley soon!!!!!

[Z Sniper]

Don't encourage them. :squint:

Also your status said you have only killed 40 zombies?! That what you do before breakfast.

OF COURSE!,...doesn't every typical Marine?,..err, insurance salesman?!

[Witch_Doctor]

OH COME ON!,....not just one little kissy-kissy?.......an elbow nudge?,........a cheesy wink? Nothing?!

At least let Micheal cop a feel if CJ stumbles.

[Witch_Doctor]

What did you guys think of the attitude of Puck and Robbins, a little callous towards Datu no? I am so glad that Michael went at CJ and gave her a piece of his mind. Team Michael :yay: :p

Their attitude was chilling. They were too cold and without compassion. I felt horrible for Datu by thinking that he could hear them talking about him. Imagine, the total sum of your whole life brings you to one point in time and others around you are matter-fo-factly talking about ending your life as if your whole existence was only about that one instance. It seems to them that you had no past to remember, you have no future to dream of. You're just some guy in the here-and-now.

[Witch_Doctor]

So, let us fix the pump / well problem for poor Datu. He cannot get the right current/voltage to the pump to lift the hydrostatic head up out of the ground. He keeps trying to supply more power to lift the head. Let's turn that around. Shrink the weight of the head.

The weight of the head is a function of the length of the pipe and the pipe diameter. Can he put pipes or sticks inside the pipe to occupy space to reduce the effective diameter of the pipe? They do not have to run the big generator 24/7 to get enough water for the colony, it seems they just have to use it because it is the only thing with enough power. My guess, it is over engineered. Shrink the head Datu...

:tinfoil: just a guess...

We have this ( ).... Maybe we can turn it into this (o) and reduce the amount of power required

I have no idea if it will work, I am not an engineer, I am a general manager that lives outside of the box, helping techies redefine their problems with fresh eyes


Exactly right.

also could explore the idea of an aquaduct type system once the water is out of the ground well. A large storage vessel above ground close to the pump would lessen the front strain of pushing water to the colony. From there allow gravity to do the work for you

Now, if we only had a way to get this message to Datu.

[7oddisdead]

Now, if we only had a way to get this message to Datu.

we do! light the fire, i'll go get the chicken!

[Witch_Doctor]

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by 7oddisdead http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?p=69382#post69382)

I gotta wonder also (about the artwork)...

that behemoth look a little "pale" to anyone else??
Could be because of the Christmas Season.

Attachment 2886 (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2886)

The Abominable Behemoth


The link doesn't work for me :/


Me either.


I have an insane, crackpot idea relating to all this turning/not turning talk...time to fire up the old blog me thinks...its out there....waaaay out there

2888

[Storm]

Actually, I'm kinda glad that we finally might lose some more key characters. Angel's death didn't touch me at all, simply because he didn't even speak. He could as well just have been dead since the end of chapter 24. With Datu, we hear his pain as he cries out, we hear how the others help and talk to him, hell, we even hear the man digging his own grave.
I will say though, that he probably became one of my favorite characters, I mean, how many people would be able to go through all the things Datu's been, the arena, Boulder, then Irwin, now this... And then even be strong enough to make their own last resting place? That's just wow.
Was going to say "long live", but doesn't seem that likely, so... Hail king Datu, the resourceful!

[7oddisdead]

I thought that's what that one was....hes so cute!


but seriously
:squint:

[Gooer]

I'm quite sure at least a few of us heard it say something like "kill" or "get up" at 16:50. Maybe I was just imagining that part, but I remember that taking up a few of those 55 pages written about 40.3.

Oh yea, i remember now, it DID say something.....think it was get up, although not sure who towards...

[Gooer]

2888

Hahaha, i see it this time!

[LiamKerrington]

lets face it Datu has balls of steel....

Naturally. He is the mechanic ...

[ZombieWildfire]

I'm only just getting myself to a point where I think I can relisten to this podcast.

Man, I try not to be that emotional these days but my goodness I was verging on tears when listening to this episode. Just goes to show how beautifully in-depth these characters have been drawn for us- well done, Kc. I'm always the one screeching " WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU, JUST KILL THEM NOW!" when I'm watching zombie films in which a loved one has been bitten and is about to turn. But I had none of that frustration with this episode: I could entirely understand Michael being torn in two by what to do.

King Datu the Resourceful's development from the comedic figure to that of a brave, tragic hero with the weight of the world on his shoulders is pretty spectacular.

I've been through the whole "Oh I'm sure he is immune" stage. I'm settling on: expect that the worst will happen and come to terms with it- then if it doesn't, that's a bonus.

[Footbutt]

i thought Tanya was being very risky/unselfish about revealing the K18 level thing. She made the point that not everyone that's bit turns, but the "test" is still on the table.

in my mind i could see CJ's internal wheels starting to spin about testing everyone that's suspect.

and yes, Datu's... everything is amazing.
1.) He was working a job in the US to send money back home to support his family
2.) He was taking night classes for a better job
3.) His work-ethic is above and beyond most
4.) His resiliance (sp?) is outstanding
5.) His emotional states are justified
6.) He's a man of Faith (in my book, that's a plus for an added dynamic, when these days it's "hip" to be an atheist)
7.) He continually shows how selfless he is
8.) His skill at repairing may not be the best, but his determination sees the projects through

Darn it, KC! He's such a good character!
that's not a request to save him; i'm glad he's getting a proper fairwell.

[Tar Heel Fan]

Oh yea, i remember now, t Did say something.....think it was get up, although not sure who towards...

I'm beginning to wonder if "get up" or "kill" was said by Jay as he was turning?

[Monster mani]

Quick! Someone run the bite under a cold tap! Fetch a hot water bottle! And some modest pain relief! We can not let Datu die!... Tho there is a big well to push Cj down....

[ZombieWildfire]

I agree with those who are curious about Hope and why he didn't call for her.


It seems fairly obvious to me that he *wouldn't* want to see or speak to Hope.

There's the dignity side of things- Datu would want to protect her from having to see him in the scratched and bleeding state he is in now, but especially from her having to see him if he turns. He would want her to remember him as Datu, not as a raving flesh-eating monster.

And final good-byes can be horribly hard and painful. Some people (myself included) would prefer to not have to go through them at all, and let the person remember you as you were.

[ZombieWildfire]

The overwhelming thought that occurs to me when I look at the cover art is:

I wonder if behemoths wear pants, and if so, how do they find them in their size?

I swear my brain works differently to others at times.

[Grognaurd]

Actually, I'm kinda glad that we finally might lose some more key characters. Angel's death didn't touch me at all, simply because he didn't even speak. He could as well just have been dead since the end of chapter 24. With Datu, we hear his pain as he cries out, we hear how the others help and talk to him, hell, we even hear the man digging his own grave.
I will say though, that he probably became one of my favorite characters, I mean, how many people would be able to go through all the things Datu's been, the arena, Boulder, then Irwin, now this... And then even be strong enough to make their own last resting place? That's just wow.
Was going to say "long live", but doesn't seem that likely, so... Hail king Datu, the resourceful!

Wow, I found the non-speaking Angel scene very powerful. I hope we get a flashback at sometime in the show to hear him again, but I think that scene worked really well.

The cover art sure could be the water works. I remeber hearing the catwalks. It has been so many months I wonder if Mchael remembers it differently than what we heard. I could see it performed with different lines, but I could just as easily see his story narrating as a voice over into something new.

Speculatin: Randy has speaking lines. I do not think KC would want to do that whole scene as a narration. Michael yells Randy after his surgery while unconscious. That means something affected him pretty deeply. Not just seeing a biter wearing a Randy Name Tag.

[tonyhind86]

The overwhelming thought that occurs to me when I look at the cover art is:

I wonder if behemoths wear pants, and if so, how do they find them in their size?

I swear my brain works differently to others at times.

They can't carry stuff in their pockets - hands are too big :)

[Witch_Doctor]

The overwhelming thought that occurs to me when I look at the cover art is:

I wonder if behemoths wear pants, and if so, how do they find them in their size?

I swear my brain works differently to others at times.

I thought the same while looking at the artwork. Also, I swear I see a Behemoth woody (no pun intended). Maybe that's part of the reason that Micheal hasn't shared is story. :hsugh:

Seriously, monkey business aside, that thing looks like a giant gibbon. Some male primates exhibit an erection during agonistic behavior, when they are facing down a threat. Not saying they're turned primates, but maybe the Zombies' behavior is more primal than modern humans.

[ZombieWildfire]

I thought the same while looking at the artwork. Also, I swear I see a Behemoth woody (no pun intended).

All the 'roids would have probably shrunk everything, but still... The thought of behemoth crown jewels dangling about is rather worrying. Surely someone who had seen a behemoth would have commented on this?!

But then, if they are wearing pants, they'd be too big to just find them. So that leaves me with an image of a behemoth trying to thread a needle and sew together some trousers.

[Grognaurd]

Zoinks

Um, so I was going to reference that eye of the storm is often a calm place before it gets crazy again. Datu might die and this is the calm section?

So, was going to lighten the mood some. Now, this takes on a whole new meaning with WItchDoctors post. But, like Nik says Threads do what threads do. I had this thought before hand, lol...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W6as8oVcuM&feature

[Grognaurd]

Well, the Hulk always seem to fit just fine in Doctor Banners pants. Its almost X-mas. Lots of magic in the area to maintain a PG13 rating lol...

[Witch_Doctor]

Well, the Hulk always seem to fit just fine in Doctor Banners pants. Its almost X-mas. Lots of magic in the area to maintain a PG13 rating lol...

Beat me too the Incredible Hulk reference. But hey, somebody put clothes on the Inklings. On that note, no body mentioned he other Inklings as being larger like the one at Raydon Labs. I wonder if they all changed.

[UndeadSweeper]

All the 'roids would have probably shrunk everything, but still... The thought of behemoth crown jewels dangling about is rather worrying. Surely someone who had seen a behemoth would have commented on this?!

But then, if they are wearing pants, they'd be too big to just find them. So that leaves me with an image of a behemoth trying to thread a needle and sew together some trousers.

Bruce Banner hasn't open an Big and Tall store in the area, so you probably right they have to make it on there own. But you guys are right why hasn't anyone said anything about that? You would think the wisecracking Vic or Puck would have said something.

[Gnex]

Datu doesn't need to speak with Hope because Datu is not going to die......

Look at everything Datu has survived......... The Tower, The Water Works, The Arena, Fort Irwin, Boulder, etc, etc, etc........

Datu will not Die, because Datu is a Survivor!!!! "We're Alive, A Story of Survival!!!"

Datu is resourceful...... Datu will make it!!!

Maybe Datu can rig up a machine to clean his blood or something???

Maybe Datu can get an injection of Saul/Tanya Blood to fight the infection???

Maybe Datu's body will naturally fight the infection with no help at all???

Maybe Burt and Riley hear everything on the radio and show up with a cure they have found in the weeks spent hunting Ink???


As Datu himself has even told us....... "There's still hope...there's always hope"

[Elisa]

For the record Angel's death really affected me. Datu's has too. Relistening and it's just so very very sad.

[Gnex]

Can't lose two Jay's in one chapter............ so Datu is good!!! :yay:

[tonyhind86]

The part when he was begging Jay to kill him reminded me of the scene in Predator when Arnie is shouting "Come on kill me!" to the predator has led me to a logical conclusion:

Datu is Arnold Schwarzenegger

[TacticalJHP]

Datu doesn't need to speak with Hope because Datu is not going to die......

Look at everything Datu has survived......... The Tower, The Water Works, The Arena, Fort Irwin, Boulder, etc, etc, etc........

Datu will not Die, because Datu is a Survivor!!!! "We're Alive, A Story of Survival!!!"

Datu is resourceful...... Datu will make it!!!

Maybe Datu can rig up a machine to clean his blood or something???

Maybe Datu can get an injection of Saul/Tanya Blood to fight the infection???

Maybe Datu's body will naturally fight the infection with no help at all???

Maybe Burt and Riley hear everything on the radio and show up with a cure they have found in the weeks spent hunting Ink???


As Datu himself has even told us....... "There's still hope...there's always hope"


Hey, there is something i have not thought about.....

What if Tanya tries giving Datu a blood transfusion from a healthy person? Could that drop his K18 levels enough to slow the infection, or even stop the infection all together?

Maybe push through a little meds as well, and it could possibly be a cure for slow turners.

[alexcadtek]

Is WA addicting or what!

[ZombieWildfire]

Datu doesn't need to speak with Hope because Datu is not going to die......

Look at everything Datu has survived......... The Tower, The Water Works, The Arena, Fort Irwin, Boulder, etc, etc, etc........

Datu will not Die, because Datu is a Survivor!!!! "We're Alive, A Story of Survival!!!"

Datu is resourceful...... Datu will make it!!!

Maybe Datu can rig up a machine to clean his blood or something???

Maybe Datu can get an injection of Saul/Tanya Blood to fight the infection???

Maybe Datu's body will naturally fight the infection with no help at all???

Maybe Burt and Riley hear everything on the radio and show up with a cure they have found in the weeks spent hunting Ink???


As Datu himself has even told us....... "There's still hope...there's always hope"

Someone get Gnex a nice hot, sweet cup of tea. He's clearly still in the denial stage of grief.

The next stage is anger *cowers in a corner* :bunker:

[UndeadSweeper]

Hey, there is something i have not thought about.....

What if Tanya tries giving Datu a blood transfusion from a healthy person? Could that drop his K18 levels enough to slow the infection, or even stop the infection all together?

Maybe push through a little meds as well, and it could possibly be a cure for slow turners.

As Tanya stated you can't change a frog back into a tadpole. He just above stage one and that might had work if he was still below it.

[UndeadSweeper]

Someone get Gnex a nice hot, sweet cup of tea. He's clearly still in the denial stage of grief.

The next stage is anger *cowers in a corner* :bunker:

We seen this before, where the Angel support group? We have another one.

[Gnex]

Someone get Gnex a nice hot, sweet cup of tea. He's clearly still in the denial stage of grief.

The next stage is anger *cowers in a corner* :bunker:

There is no need to be in denial when you know that Good will eventually win the Day over evil!!!!

Datu is good!!!! CJ is evil......... If anyone will be exiting in the near future it will be CJ......


As Tanya stated you can't change a frog back into a tadpole. He just above stage one and that might had work if he was still below it.

Tanya is a crazy person........ How do we know she isn't just trying to quickly write Datu off so she can have more Zombie bodies to run tests on?!?!? Tanya better watch out before she gets put on the CJ list..........

[kent17]

There's the dignity side of things- Datu would want to protect her from having to see him in the scratched and bleeding state he is in now, but especially from her having to see him if he turns.

she can't see him... so no problem there

[tonyhind86]

I reckon her sight will return just before he dies - fulfilling a "dying wish", if you will...

(Plus it'll make his death all the more sadder)

[Gooer]

For the record Angel's death really affected me. Datu's has too. Relistening and it's just so very very sad.

Don't say Datu is already dead. HE ISN'T DEAD YET DAMNIT! Poor Datu....

[Gooer]

I reckon her sight will return just before he dies - fulfilling a "dying wish", if you will...

(Plus it'll make his death all the more sadder)

Sure, go make it even more depressing..... *sigh*

[Gnex]

Don't say Datu is already dead. HE ISN'T DEAD YET DAMNIT! Poor Datu....

Angel didn't die either............................. He was murdered!!!!!!!

[tonyhind86]

Sure, go make it even more depressing..... *sigh*

He won't fix the pump in time, everyone at the colony will die. Racked with grief, Michael and co. will participate in a mass suicide and the show will end on a sombre theme.

[Elisa]

KC is going to turn the knife slowly with Datu's death :zombie: I am eagerly waiting for Hope's sight to return. A brave new Hope! :D

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

This might be sound tinfoily - but why did Jay not attack Datu? Did Jay identify Datu as a zombie? Does that mean that Datu might serve as some sort of zombified stealth individual? This would open the way for Datu to go where nobody who has not been bitten yet can go, would it not?

[UndeadSweeper]

This might be sound tinfoily - but why did Jay not attack Datu? Did Jay identify Datu as a zombie? Does that mean that Datu might serve as some sort of zombified stealth individual? This would open the way for Datu to go where nobody who has not been bitten yet can go, would it not?

I think that only with walkers. Since we know Randy grab Tanya and # 7 also want to do the same thing. In a matter of fact, Tanya stay off the battlefield......

[Gooer]

He won't fix the pump in time, everyone at the colony will die. Racked with grief, Michael and co. will participate in a mass suicide and the show will end on a sombre theme.

Well. I'm.....just gunna..... (walks away from computer, head dropped, unsure what to do next) How very.........depressing. You should be a writer!

[tonyhind86]

Well. I'm.....just gunna..... (walks away from computer, head dropped, unsure what to do next) How very.........depressing. You should be a writer!

I'm also available for weddings and birthday parties :D

[Robzombie]

This might be sound tinfoily - but why did Jay not attack Datu? Did Jay identify Datu as a zombie? Does that mean that Datu might serve as some sort of zombified stealth individual? This would open the way for Datu to go where nobody who has not been bitten yet can go, would it not?

I posted this on the episode 3 thread but I'll throw it up here as it's being asked and may lead to some sort of possible answer...

Okay, this is my interpretation of the little ones attack at the windmill and how it played out.

Glen is immediately attacked and killed. Jay and Datu open fire possibly striking but not killing the little one. Next Jay is attacked but not killed. Datu gets a couple more shots off but is soon firing blanks. Datu is struck down by the little one, causing the scratches to the neck and face dropping his pistol as it skitters along the ground. The little one approaches Datu and picks him up but is attacked and killed by Jay and Datu is dropped back to the ground. Jay approaches Datu and we hear him scream as he’s bitten by Jay. Jay then runs off from Datu but not leaving the scene entirely. The beeping sound is from the windmill as some component on it is failing and giving off a beep, maybe the pump burning out. Next episode, Datu yells for Jay to kill him. But I think what made Jay not kill Datu, only biting to turn him, is what keeps him away despite Datu’s pleading. Datu then turns the Mata-gun on Jay, killing him.

I don't think the Mata-gun was used to kill the little one. It's pretty clear to me that I don't hear it fire, until Datu kills Jay. I think that Jay used a tool, which made a wound that looked similiar to that made by the Mata-gun.

(Jay may not have been fully turned thereby still having enough conscience remaining to attack the Little one and move away from Datu after only one bite. Maybe thats why Datu is turning as slowly as he is....or he was fully turned, he sounds like it, but still had some control, or there was some other function at play to just turn and not eat)

[Gooer]

Angel didn't die either............................. He was murdered!!!!!!!

Technically, yes. But, I consider it more a mercy kill. Yes, Scratch killed him because he wouldn't tell her where Pegs and the others went, but she also knew he was going to die. I don't know, maybe she would of killed him either if he wasn't on death's door....

[Gooer]

I'm not entirely convinced about the theory of "the weak strain of infection". Usually, with most zombie-based films, it wouldn't matter how much infection you get, you're still fucked. Not saying it's the same with We're Alive, as each story is unique, but the idea of it doesn't seem right; it doesn't make it as scary as it first was, with only minor scratches and bites don't infect, just major damage.

[LiamKerrington]

Technically, yes. But, I consider it more a mercy kill. Yes, Scratch killed him because he wouldn't tell her where Pegs and the others went, but she also knew he was going to die. I don't know, maybe she would of killed him either if he wasn't on death's door....

Well ... Angel would have died anyway. That's true. But Scratch shooting him ... Well, the way she did it, had little to do with Mercy. That was just cold blood, 'cause he successfully withstood her interrogation ...

[LiamKerrington]

I'm not entirely convinced about the theory of "the weak strain of infection". Usually, with most zombie-based films, it wouldn't matter how much infection you get, you're still fucked. Not saying it's the same with We're Alive, as each story is unique, but the idea of it doesn't seem right; it doesn't make it as scary as it first was, with only minor scratches and bites don't infect, just major damage.

About the seriousness of the infection I agree with you 100%. No matter how much or how hard someone is hit, he is infected. So the important part of the story would be: what specific traits or qualities does someone need to have in order to be a slow-turner or a near-immune turner like Saul and Tanya are? Is it a specific factor within your blood, or a certain immune-reaction-complex, or maybe something else?

[Gooer]

Well ... Angel would have died anyway. That's true. But Scratch shooting him ... Well, the way she did it, had little to do with Mercy. That was just cold blood, 'cause he successfully withstood her interrogation ...

Yea, i guess. The way in which we hear it, makes it sound more brutal than it should of been

[UndeadSweeper]

About the seriousness of the infection I agree with you 100%. No matter how much or how hard someone is hit, he is infected. So the important part of the story would be: what specific traits or qualities does someone need to have in order to be a slow-turner or a near-immune turner like Saul and Tanya are? Is it a specific factor within your blood, or a certain immune-reaction-complex, or maybe something else?

I was saying earlier if it could be something with skin pigment or color. It seems that that Saul, Tanya and Datu all have that in common. Could it be Melanin? Do melanin and Keratin 18 have any connection?

[scbubba]

Wow. Just.... wow. What an episode.

People have covered a lot of ground for the episode in these 20 pages and some really good stuff too.

I'm left with a few things:

1) Datu and turning - obviously it's slower than we have seen others. It's been hours, I believe, since the bite and Datu is at stage 1 levels with no obvious external signs. That's slower than a lot we have seen but not so slow as to say he will just stop a la Tanya/Saul. The waiting is the hardest part. But, like Grog has said, if there ain't no dead body there ain't nobody dead.....

2) Little One #9 and Jay - #9 obviously killed Glen. I assume he turned Jay too. I couldn't make out another zombie in the scene at the end of 40 but I'm not sure. So, who used the mata-gun on #9? Jay or Datu? Who bit Datu? Was it Jay? Hmmm. Anyway, I get the feeling that Jay knows that Datu is infected and that's why he doesn't move in for the kill. But does Jay know Datu is infected because of some bio-chemical change zombies can detect? Or is it the observation that "I just saw that guy get bit so he'll be one of us soon"?

3) K18 - Tanya's theory of infection raising K18 levels is proven again. Now CJ and others have wind of it. What happens next....

Well, seeing the chapter artwork, I'm pulled back to the water works. I'm wondering if we don't get a recount of the story from Michael (and finally hear the broken arm story) and after it's over, someone (CJ) points out that Michael was probably exposed and might be a slow turner. That sparks the idea that Tanya's test be used on a bunch of people - Michael first. Then we find that Michael's K18 levels are elevated too.... Dun dunn dunnnn!

Whatever happens, I was definitely gutted when I heard that Datu basically has a death sentence and then the digging graves things was a punch to the groin after that. I think Kc picked the right character to have this kind of moment in the story, regardless of the live/die/turn outcome.

Damn fine episode and I can't wait for the next one (as always but maybe more so for this one!)

[tonyhind86]

I remember the water works episode - the growl they all heard definetly sounded like a behemoth. And now with the artwork suggesting it too, its very likely that the question of Michael's arm will finally be answered.

[Gnex]

Technically, yes. But, I consider it more a mercy kill. Yes, Scratch killed him because he wouldn't tell her where Pegs and the others went, but she also knew he was going to die. I don't know, maybe she would of killed him either if he wasn't on death's door....

Scratch is a Murderer!!!! Just like CJ when she sent Glenn, Jay and Datu out on this suicide mission!!!!

[cringebot]

I was saying earlier if it could be something with skin pigment or color. It seems that that Saul, Tanya and Datu all have that in common. Could it be Melanin? Do melanin and Keratin 18 have any connection?

This what I find far fetched. It seems to be too much of a coincidence for two members of the main group to be immune. Now Datu is a super slow turner? Out of all the specimens Tanya has encountered she has come across just one and the best connection we can come up with is skin color? I figure there would be a lot more cases that would make this apparent.

[Gnex]

Ok.............

So I was sitting here at work........ thinking about zombies....... and thinking about how we all know that Datu is going to be perfectly fine......


Then it hit me........

I know others have said that there may be some kind of connection between Saul and Tanya's skin tone and not being infected......

Datu also has a darker skin tone....... but............... this is the part that just hit me........

Ink Tattooed himself....... thus creating a "fake" darker skin tone and/or adding pigment to his skin tone........

We also see what appears to be an Albino Behemoth in the Artwork, which is a complete lack of pigment......

Could this have something to do with not completely turning??? or slow turning???

[kent17]

Datu said he was bitten by a regular, so unless he is lying (which is unlike Datu) then there was a regular one there. If it was #9 that bit Jay then wouldn't Jay become a little one? is that how it works?

Jay either ignored Datu because he could recognize that was already turning, or Jay could still see Datu as a friend; I'm leaning towards the latter.

Kc is dancing around if zombies can tell who has been bitten/infected (Randy taking Tanya but not biting her, Jay ignoring Datu) so I think there is something important to it.

Edit: I just listened to the end of Chapter 12 when, Tommy turns. He full on attacks Saul, and only runs to the stairwell to escape, not because he recognizes "friends". I say Jay could tell Datu was infected.

[Witch_Doctor]

Is WA addicting or what!

Uh, no! I can stop anytime I want. :hsugh:

Who am i kidding? My therapist listens to the show now.

[FunkyDung]

No, no.... KC = Michael.

For his wife's sake, I hope he's not remotely the emotional cripple Michael is. ;)

[Witch_Doctor]

This might be sound tinfoily - but why did Jay not attack Datu? Did Jay identify Datu as a zombie? Does that mean that Datu might serve as some sort of zombified stealth individual? This would open the way for Datu to go where nobody who has not been bitten yet can go, would it not?


I think that only with walkers. Since we know Randy grab Tanya and # 7 also want to do the same thing. In a matter of fact, Tanya stay off the battlefield......

Also #8 went after Saul. But maybe once the remaining 4 Inklings are gone, the Final Five three of them can infiltrate the Cylon home world Ink's secret lair.

[Witch_Doctor]

Ok.............

So I was sitting here at work........ thinking about zombies....... and thinking about how we all know that Datu is going to be perfectly fine......


Then it hit me........

I know others have said that there may be some kind of connection between Saul and Tanya's skin tone and not being infected......

Datu also has a darker skin tone....... but............... this is the part that just hit me........

Ink Tattooed himself....... thus creating a "fake" darker skin tone and/or adding pigment to his skin tone........

We also see what appears to be an Albino Behemoth in the Artwork, which is a complete lack of pigment......

Could this have something to do with not completely turning??? or slow turning???

But the obvious question would be, what about all the other darker complexioned Los Angelinos? Millions of Latinos, Blacks, and Asian running around unchanged would be noticed. What about blood type? Grog & 7odd have brought this angle up.

[pmchawk]

I haven't had a chance to read everything on this thread but a couple things that stick out to me.

I'll start with Tanya. She cut her hair. You can do long term testing by testing your hair.

Datu "feeling" himself changing.. He also thought he was dying from shock after The waterworks incident. Can't put stock in it.

CJ knowing everything about everyone. I think she did this just in case Saul and Victor tried to say she didn't care about coming to save them from the mallers. However, getting to know people would have changed her.

Had a couple more thoughts but g2g

[UndeadSweeper]

But the obvious question would be, what about all the other darker complexioned Los Angelinos? Millions of Latinos, Blacks, and Asian running around unchanged would be noticed. What about blood type? Grog & 7odd have brought this angle up.

We know that someone people are take alive for food or experiments, eg the Arena and those being drag to the hospital. Ink doesn't want everyone to turn.

I'm also wondering if Vic wasn't one of the one that when in to the haze if another person would have become a quick turner?

[Gooer]

I was saying earlier if it could be something with skin pigment or color. It seems that that Saul, Tanya and Datu all have that in common. Could it be Melanin? Do melanin and Keratin 18 have any connection?

Melanin determines the skin colour, and keratine gives skin strength + elasticity, and is in hair and nails (if you didn't know already). That's what i found so far, can keep going though

Edit: keratin also waterproofs skin, if you're interested.....

[Gooer]

Scratch is a Murderer!!!! Just like CJ when she sent Glenn, Jay and Datu out on this suicide mission!!!!

Man, you're on a real hate campaign.... :yay:

[Gooer]

I haven't had a chance to read everything on this thread but a couple things that stick out to me.

I'll start with Tanya. She cut her hair. You can do long term testing by testing your hair.

Datu "feeling" himself changing.. He also thought he was dying from shock after The waterworks incident. Can't put stock in it.

CJ knowing everything about everyone. I think she did this just in case Saul and Victor tried to say she didn't care about coming to save them from the mallers. However, getting to know people would have changed her.

Had a couple more thoughts but g2g

Pretty sure Tanya cut her hair because it got caught in the fence, and she didn't want people asking how she lost a clump of hair. But, about CJ, i think you're right.

[Witch_Doctor]

Scratch is a Murderer!!!! Just like CJ when she sent Glenn, Jay and Datu out on this suicide mission!!!!


2890

[Gnex]

But the obvious question would be, what about all the other darker complexioned Los Angelinos? Millions of Latinos, Blacks, and Asian running around unchanged would be noticed. What about blood type? Grog & 7odd have brought this angle up.

I agree with this..... although the question back on that would be...... with all those millions of people surely someone else had the same blood type as Saul and Tanya.......

Or is it a combination of factors??? Skin Type? Blood Type? having recently taken or been exposed to Medications of some sort?!??

[LiamKerrington]

CJ knowing everything about everyone. I think she did this just in case Saul and Victor tried to say she didn't care about coming to save them from the mallers. However, getting to know people would have changed her.

Now that you mention this ... Is it only me seeing a change in CJ's behaviour when she openly speaks with Pegs about the situations or when she seems to be open-minded about Glenn's and R2Da2's windmill project as well as the Mata-Gun? to me this was strange compared with her barking and yelling orders at almost everyone in earlier episodes ...

CJ is turning ... Not in terms of becoming a zomb, but in terms of re-exploring her human side ...

And no: She is not to be blamed for what happened to Jay, Glenn, and R2Da2. In #41-1 she told everyone that there was little risk involved, 'cause Glenn and R2Da2 were working on the windmill several times without any trouble around; so there was nothing unusual about her decision to allow them to work on and maybe finish the job with it ...

(I don't believe it. For several weeks now I actually defend CJ, although I don't like her ...)

Best wishes!
Liam

[Storm]

Is it just me, or do people seem to forget, that the turning causes the K18 level to raise, not that K18 causes the turning?

[Witch_Doctor]

Is it just me, or do people seem to forget, that the turning causes the K18 level to raise, not that K18 causes the turning?

Yeah. Thanks for the reminder. When it gets backwards, it throws off any plausible theories.

[7oddisdead]

Is it just me, or do people seem to forget, that the turning causes the K18 level to raise, not that K18 causes the turning?

this^1000%

k18 levels are a BYPRODUCT of what's happening. If that was the only test Tanya found to gauge turning, than anything more obvious than that may as well be thrown out the window. (melanin, hair, etc...) as they have nothing to do with immunity or causality.

like as not, we need to determine what could cause k18 to elevate, and what could effect that thing(whatever it may be) to level off...as the case with saul/tanya(for now)

[Gooer]

Well,mutations of K18 can be linked to a liver disease called cryptogenic cirrhosis, if thats any help.....? Which it isn't.....

Edit: considering that the zombies still need to eat and sleep like we do, maybe they can fall ill to....? I'm assuming if they had a liver disease they wouldn't survive much long....

[Elisa]

CJ knowing everything about everyone. I think she did this just in case Saul and Victor tried to say she didn't care about coming to save them from the mallers. However, getting to know people would have changed her.



CJ has a file on everyone....:squint:

[BunnyButters]

Does anyone remember back at CJ's old place where we first met her, can't remember the name, but it got overrun in the end - CJ was in the basement and (I speculate) that Ink was there, he whispered something, and she was left alive... It was pretty damn scary!
So I have a feeling that CJ isn't all what she seems... Theories??

Also I love this show and always trying to get more UK followers! :)

[BunnyButters]

And I believe it was 'leave her' that he whispered...

[Grognaurd]

And I believe it was 'leave her' that he whispered...

You are right. Ink left her for some reason and The mallers were sure intent on finding them because of what they could be...

[Witch_Doctor]

CJ has a file on everyone....:squint:

CJ has a file on the NSA.:squint:

[UndeadSweeper]

CJ has a file on the NSA.:squint:

CJ has a file on who been naughty or nice.

[Red Shirt]

I hope we get a flashback at sometime in the show to hear him again, but I think that scene worked really well.

In my imagination, I just pictured a flashback montage... Any given day, lounging around the tower and passing time. Playing cards and laughing, people getting to know one another... Datu and Tommy tinkering with stuff. Saul down in the parking garage trying to inspect the vehicles, but Lizzy is distracting him. Burt giving his weapon classes. Pegs working the garden... Riley inventorying goods from a recent scavenging mission and setting things aside for that nights dinner...
Zombies just a (not so) distant memory, just people being people and living an ordinary day of their life.

Man, I just bummed myself out.


KC is going to turn the knife slowly with Datu's death

A friend once told me that Joss Whedon is a masterful artist at "twisting the knife slowly" in your emotions. IMHO, KC's writing is on par with his... see where I'm hinting at?
"Not everyone is going to make it out of the story alive."
"I'm a leaf on the wind... Watch how I soar."

[Tar Heel Fan]

This might be sound tinfoily - but why did Jay not attack Datu? Did Jay identify Datu as a zombie? Does that mean that Datu might serve as some sort of zombified stealth individual? This would open the way for Datu to go where nobody who has not been bitten yet can go, would it not?

YABC, I'll take your tinfoil challenge and play it out. I was thinking the same thing when Jay kept walking away despite fresh meat in front of him. For some reason, most likely that Datu is "on the z spectrum," he went unnoticed. This can become a weapon that might allow our heroes to get closer than ever to their "offensive plan." Though K18 levels are the symptom, not the cause, Tanya's test could come in quite handy for putting together an elite force of slow turners. Datu, Saul, Tanya, maybe Michael, maybe another few who had concealed earlier exposures because they hadn't turned - they could do a lot of damage if they can find Ink's lair...

[Tar Heel Fan]

This what I find far fetched. It seems to be too much of a coincidence for two members of the main group to be immune. Now Datu is a super slow turner? Out of all the specimens Tanya has encountered she has come across just one and the best connection we can come up with is skin color? I figure there would be a lot more cases that would make this apparent.

I don't find it far-fetched to have multiple survivors in the same group who might have a special rare immunity, at least at this stage in the story. If there's some kind of genetic immunity out there that prevents turning, it becomes a Darwinian advantage, allowing them to survive at better rates than the "normals." I'm thinking of the premise of survival in Stephen King's The Stand

I wouldn't be surprised to find a few more examples like Saul and Tanya and maybe even Datu, those who have already been exposed, but hid their exposure for fear of being run off, whose "immunity" is the reason they are still alive.

[Unit]

The CJ Defense Force here! Setup in my weapon cache corner wait for incoming CJ haters. :D Let's do this. Happy Monday, everyone!

I actually liked CJ in this episode. Don't get me wrong, CJ is still CJ and most days I'll rather kick her in the head, and I still don't believe she fully cares, I think she is a good emotional manipulator, but I still liked her this episode for some reason.

[Storm]

If Michael's immune too... Nonono, just not an option, that'd just be too much good luck, which we all know does not exist in a zpocalypse.
Then again... Could probably be quite interesting.. But nah! ... I don't know. We have about 20 named characters left in the show, and two, maybe three already seem to be. Would be a bit anti climatic to just say... Oh, and then they all turned out to not being affected by this virus at all. :D Hmm... But if Michael is too, that'd be about a fifth of the survivers... So far. I kinda like the idea about the blood type being the important factor. I should probably have listened more to my biology teacher, we just recently had about blood, and I remember him saying something about some people having a special type which just was a bit different from another one, and... Ehh... See, I remember shit from that class. Important part was, that nobody seemed to know what exactly the difference did, apparently it just was there...... I have to read about this now.

[Unit]

I was talking about that with Liam in the VIP room. It seems like no matter what she says or does, as long as she shows any opposition to Michael or other established characters, she will be hated.

I think at this point she has already established herself in such a way that no matter what she does, her role is already set. Imagine if Scratch came walking up wanting to play nice and be friends, would she be weal comes with open arms? Or if Tardust wanted to buddy up to Lizzy and Saul? It is almost too late for anything different they do to change the opinions of them. I see CJ facing this same battle. And I don't think it has to do necessarily with her opposition or alignment with Michael or anyone else, it was her out for herself attitude that did it (at least for me)

[Storm]

Haven't been able to find anything about whatever I'm remembering my teacher said... But seems like AB RH D negative is one of the more rare blood types... Hmm... Interesting. At the moment though, I'm trying to find out something that would raise the K18 level... Like none of you haven't already tried... Lol. Wouldn't it be perfect if it turned out not being important at all? :)

[Unit]

But, what was the purpose of the attack originally? Was it just wandering damage? That an inkling thought it could turn two humans? Food? My thought after 40-3 was it was an attack on water resource. That failed too, if it was the plan. I am pretty sure I heard something run away in 40-3. Was it out of fear? No gun truck, but the pesky humans were still able to kill an inkling. If a normal ran away, that is actually good news. We did not hear it get called away and it was not acting like a mindless eating machine. If it values its own life, than it can be bargained with. It is a start.

My don't know why this is the first time this thought has come to mind, but wouldn't the zombies need water too? We know they need to feed, and their bodies are modified versions of normal humans. We see with the ones that attacked Michael and Pegs in the boat that apparently they can starve to death. Tanya in her studies says they need the same things we need, food, oxygen etc. wouldn't water be one of them?

Could this have been an orchestrated attack? The zeds hear the pumps go on and the windmill is spinning, and Datu said they had some water starting to come out. Maybe they were laying in wait until they thought the pump was operational, then they jump in and take out Datu and crew in an attempt to take over the water source for themselves? Are the sheds dying of dehydration?

[7oddisdead]

I'm not entirely convinced about the theory of "the weak strain of infection". Usually, with most zombie-based films, it wouldn't matter how much infection you get, you're still fucked. Not saying it's the same with We're Alive, as each story is unique, but the idea of it doesn't seem right; it doesn't make it as scary as it first was, with only minor scratches and bites don't infect, just major damage.

while I tend to agree with you, I also hope we learn more in this chapter to either A: give us a different perspective on datu's condition, or B: see datu, in fact turn..i don't really want B to happen, but it seems needed.

this is the dangerous line kc rides with this story. really I think how he handles this situation will make or break the entirety of the show (for me at least) I know that's a bold statement, but that's how I feel. he has given us a 90% logical, scientific, fact based story...I don't want to see that change in the Nth hour.


This what I find far fetched. It seems to be too much of a coincidence for two members of the main group to be immune. Now Datu is a super slow turner? Out of all the specimens Tanya has encountered she has come across just one and the best connection we can come up with is skin color? I figure there would be a lot more cases that would make this apparent.

again. tar heel fan said this, and ill put it in other words, but the same idea. the strong survive. the likelihood of immunity among those left in the story would seem like it should be higher, as those who are 'weak' die/are killed off. and about the skin color thing....

if you don't like the theory, give us one of your own :) im sure most people don't know this, but in the group section we have the theory team (the hive) over the last 48 hours we have all been researching the shit out of possible angles that could cause the tayna/saul immunity and the datu slow turning. from looking at the possibility of the mitochondrial dna of Neanderthals still being present in the European based characters increasing the chances of turning where pure homo sapien blood is more immune to the idea the moldy corn dog datu ate in the arena being the reason he did not turn immediately. simple fact is we do not have enough info at this time to really come up with a clear answer. the only thing we can do is speculate...and since KC has already given us the k18 nugget, people naturally gravitate toward skin for answers...the issue with that is k18 levels are a BYPRODUCT not a cause....sigh.

I personally don't like the skin angle either...that is far to obvious. and far to..well, asinine. what I would much rather believe is ALL of our main players...the tower folk left AND vic and cj and Tanya, ALL OF THEM..are immune (is my crackpot showing? ;) )


If Michael's immune too... Nonono, just not an option, that'd just be too much good luck, which we all know does not exist in a zpocalypse.
Then again... Could probably be quite interesting.. But nah! ... I don't know. We have about 20 named characters left in the show, and two, maybe three already seem to be. Would be a bit anti climatic to just say... Oh, and then they all turned out to not being affected by this virus at all. :D Hmm... But if Michael is too, that'd be about a fifth of the survivers... So far. I kinda like the idea about the blood type being the important factor. I should probably have listened more to my biology teacher, we just recently had about blood, and I remember him saying something about some people having a special type which just was a bit different from another one, and... Ehh... See, I remember shit from that class. Important part was, that nobody seemed to know what exactly the difference did, apparently it just was there...... I have to read about this now.

and there ya go...great minds think alike. in this situation, id much rather believe it was bill Roberts that brought all these people together though. he really did have the best interest of our people in mind after all (ah, warms me heart)


this episode of todd ranting brought to you by arrogant bastard ale
7id out

[Storm]

My don't know why this is the first time this thought has come to mind, but wouldn't the zombies need water too? We know they need to feed, and their bodies are modified versions of normal humans. We see with the ones that attacked Michael and Pegs in the boat that apparently they can starve to death. Tanya in her studies says they need the same things we need, food, oxygen etc. wouldn't water be one of them?

Could this have been an orchestrated attack? The zeds hear the pumps go on and the windmill is spinning, and Datu said they had some water starting to come out. Maybe they were laying in wait until they thought the pump was operational, then they jump in and take out Datu and crew in an attempt to take over the water source for themselves? Are the sheds dying of dehydration?

Wouldn't they just go and drink what ever water was available? I mean... They probably don't have to worry whether or not it's filled with Z-stuff...since they're already turned...

[7oddisdead]

My don't know why this is the first time this thought has come to mind, but wouldn't the zombies need water too? We know they need to feed, and their bodies are modified versions of normal humans. We see with the ones that attacked Michael and Pegs in the boat that apparently they can starve to death. Tanya in her studies says they need the same things we need, food, oxygen etc. wouldn't water be one of them?

Could this have been an orchestrated attack? The zeds hear the pumps go on and the windmill is spinning, and Datu said they had some water starting to come out. Maybe they were laying in wait until they thought the pump was operational, then they jump in and take out Datu and crew in an attempt to take over the water source for themselves? Are the sheds dying of dehydration?

didn't Michael make mention when they were reviewing the game cameras of the biters carrying tin cans and bottles of water? this could have simply been a throw away line, but I don't think so. I like your idea of a planned attack on the water pumps for the reason of getting water.but I have to wonder, what if they really don't need water to stay hydrated? what if that's one of the changes? we have speculated on the internal changes since we learned of the saul/Tanya situation...myself and red shirt both seem to wonder if kidney failure might not be one of the things happening (explains the smell at least!) but were that the case, would hydration not also be possible other ways?

im really loving this 'science of zombies' talk folks, keep it up!

[ZombieWildfire]

Wouldn't they just go and drink what ever water was available? I mean... They probably don't have to worry whether or not it's filled with Z-stuff...since they're already turned...

An interesting thought would be whether the zombs would still be susceptible to other water-borne diseases.

A behemoth with dysentery wouldn't be a pretty sight.

[LiamKerrington]

An interesting thought would be whether the zombs would still be susceptible to other water-borne diseases.

A behemoth with dysentery wouldn't be a pretty sight.

I have a strange feeling of de ja vus ... Once I mentioned little ones farting like crazy in order to jump over the walls of the Colony ... Pictures now spring to my mind about Behemoths doin' the same ... Oh, silly me ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Grognaurd]

Attacking the water pump

Lots of possibilities. Resource denial. The biters may have enough of their own water and they do not need the extra. Attack it to deny it to the colony. Scarcity of resources. Say lots of the biters live underground. They might have access to the aquifer from their own tunnels. If the humans are now trying to steal it with their well, maybe it is time to put a stop to it. Maybe they did plan to try and use it for themselves, but king Datu kicked their ass so they fled.

[Footbutt]

it gases me to say it, butt "potty talk" and "poop talk" rarely make it into a storyline, for good reason. it's just assumed that the characters' poop/pee are a natural occurance, and the writer doesn't have to display that for all to see. (i know Kalani peed, but that was a needed transition!)
when's the last time you read:
Michael: "Hey guys, wake up! We move out in 10."
Robbins: "Just let me take a quick dump first. I ate a bad MRE last night."
and then we hear it.

i was raised on poop talk with my family. sorry.

BACK TO THEORY CONTENT:
i don't think the Zeds smelling the way they do (like poo) is anything to speculate. they simply don't have the clarity to pull down their pants when their tummybox starts rumbling. Consider TOWTM didn't 'smell', as far as we know. they even assumed he was a normal.

[Grognaurd]

The science of cells.

Let's just say this is a virus that causes the disease. A virus has to get from the host to the victim. When Tanya was bit she was in a hospital. She did one of the basic hygienic things. Wash the wound. This can have a few benefits. First, remove the bad stuff away from the wound and down the sink. However, there is something else that is a little more subtle. It could cause the blood cells in the wound to burst.

Osmotic Pressure

Basically, there are things in the cells that cannot get out of the cell, so water will try to go into the cell and dilute it. This causes the cell to swell and burst. This also could help prevent the contagion from getting a foothold. virus tries to get in a cell, it does, the cell bursts, the virus has to try again. Simplifying this, I know, but you get the idea

Datu was in the rain. He was getting washed, much like Tanya.

Let's replay what I think happened. Datu gets out of the truck to deal with the gate. My assumption is Glenn and Jay are in the truck and out of the rain. Glenn gets munched and dies. There is no coming back because this is more like 28 days later than the Walking dead. Jay gets infected, but is inside the truck. Datu is exposed, but keeps getting the wound washed. Even when Michael gets there and tries to sto the bleeding he can't. There is too much rain.

My guess, if Michal could have stopped the bleeding and prevented the rain and blood from washing the wound, Datu would have turned just like Jay. You heard the one about a horse names horse and a tuna sandwich saved Burt's life. Well, here is a story about a rainstorm and a person so sure that they were going to die that they did not bother to "properly" try and treat the wound that they actually lived.

Old school first aid is to stop the bleeding. Deal with a secondary infection later. But, here the disease is more of a threat than the blood loss. Let them bleed and wash the shit out of the wound. If the person bleeds to death, at least they do not come back. Cleaning the wound is the primary concern...

[UndeadSweeper]

Here another question, why was Jay a quick turner, Datu a slow turner and Glenn was killed, why was Glenn single out?

[Gooer]

Here another question, why was Jay a quick turner, Datu a slow turner and Glenn was killed, why was Glenn single out?

Maybe they didn't consider him important enough, since he was old but intelligent, while Jay was young, and somewhat smart; maybe he will be more useful to the zombie cause?

[Footbutt]

Here another question, why was Jay a quick turner, Datu a slow turner and Glenn was killed, why was Glenn single out?

Jay: Even the Zeds knew he was a noob
Glenn: easy pickin's? He had an aged-mustique flavor?
Datu: They wanted to hear him cry? more drama in the Zeds life?

honestly, i think it has to do with the victims rather than the attackers.
or maybe the circumstance surrounding the attack means different goals for the Zombies? Threat-level?

[Unit]

Hi everyone.

About CJ:
I don'T hate her. I simply don't like her because of the way she treats people around. She keeps a lot of things to herself instead of realizing the opportunities to put weight on many shoulders. And when things go bad, she does not realize that part of the blame is to be put onto herself. It is a devil's circle, if you like.
BUT - and that is very important for me that anyone here understands this: I don't put more blame on CJ than she deserves. I especially do not draw conclusions like "because her attitute or demeanor is bad, she is responsible for anything going bad". The opposite is true. I really did not understand why Michael freaked out and pulled CJ from her one leg in order to show her what happened to Jay, Glenn, and Datu; and I don't accept him to blame CJ for anything that happened at the wind-mill-pumping station. And this applies for many smaller or bigger things - especially the fall of Dunbar: CJ was not responsible for that,
In my opinion it is very true that CJ plans for her safety. But many (if not all) of her plans are about saving others as well - at least because she understands that humans as a breed or species may only survive because single persons cannot survive on his or her own. CJ has understood this, and she was and still is willing to take the responsibility by making people act together - how fucking cold-blooded or harsh this may ever turn out.

The discussion I had with Kc was about CJ telling and forcing Michael to understand that she knows the people a lot better than he does; and she concludes that therefore she cares a lot more about the individuals of the Colony than Michael does. Her speech obviously was impressive enough for Michael to shut the f*ck up. And I even actually agree with her, but I am not convinced about what she says. Because that scene reminded me of a dialogue from the movie "Good Will Hunting": "You may have read how the smell of the Sistine Chapel underneath the paintings of Michealangelo is in a book; but this is totally different from having experienced this yourself." CJ tells Michael that she knows a lot of facts about the members of the Colony; but I don't see the human spirit of CJ's guiding her in her decisions. This is different from Michael: Michael knows shit about the people around him - probably his biggest flaw; but all his decisions are based on what people see in the uniform he wears. It was Michael who told Saul and Angel to wear the uniform in order to help people find out who are the good guys; and ever since Michael did only act and think on behalf helping or supporting others, and he let everyone know and made most people get involved as well. CJ simply yells orders, and people start doing things behind her back, when they find a moment in which they don't feel observed ... So, in other words, CJ pulls people together, but she has no skills in making people start feeling responsible for each other and caring for each other, which in return leads to misbehaviour and maybe even distrust (people left Dunbar because of CJ's treatments).

Hard to put it in English words, if you are not a native speaker. But I hope I was able to point you at my opinion about CJ. I don't hate her, I only do not like her. And I don't like blaming her for shit hitting the fan if these things are beyond her decisions ...

Best wishes!
Liam

Great analysis, I agree with pretty much this whole thing.

One side note, not super critical, but it was Angel not Michael who pushed wearing the uniform.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

An just another question: why is there a wampa at the water station?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/WA_S4Dec15-FINAL-297x300.jpghttp://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100125174110/starwars/images/8/8f/Wampa-SWM80.jpg

[BunnyButters]

Now that you mention this ... Is it only me seeing a change in CJ's behaviour when she openly speaks with Pegs about the situations or when she seems to be open-minded about Glenn's and R2Da2's windmill project as well as the Mata-Gun? to me this was strange compared with her barking and yelling orders at almost everyone in earlier episodes ...

CJ is turning ... Not in terms of becoming a zomb, but in terms of re-exploring her human side ...

And no: She is not to be blamed for what happened to Jay, Glenn, and R2Da2. In #41-1 she told everyone that there was little risk involved, 'cause Glenn and R2Da2 were working on the windmill several times without any trouble around; so there was nothing unusual about her decision to allow them to work on and maybe finish the job with it ...

(I don't believe it. For several weeks now I actually defend CJ, although I don't like her ...)

Best wishes!
Liam

Liam, I have read your theories on CJ's character - do you think there could be anything more to her in terms of the whole story arc of WA?
As I mentioned in another post, whilst she is recalling the attack on her tower to Saul & Victor when she first meets them, we are taken back to listen to the action unfold.
She is left in the basement on her own, the Zeds are approaching & we here (presumably) Ink say 'leave her' - why do you think this is?
Any connection to Datu being left alive too??
Also on the theory of race, CJ & Datu are both from different racial backgrounds, as with Saul & Tanya etc... Is Ink aware of their slow turning?
Was this a clue back then when he said to leave CJ alone?
Interesting!!

[BunnyButters]

Hear* - hate bad grammar! Lol