Chapter 41-1 Eye of the Storm

[BunnyButters]

An just another question: why is there a wampa at the water station?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/WA_S4Dec15-FINAL-297x300.jpghttp://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100125174110/starwars/images/8/8f/Wampa-SWM80.jpg

LOL I can't believe I didn't even notice it in the first picture I just saw it as smoke!
But on that note, yeah wth is that thing!?

[Footbutt]

An just another question: why is there a wampa at the water station?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/WA_S4Dec15-FINAL-297x300.jpghttp://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100125174110/starwars/images/8/8f/Wampa-SWM80.jpg

yeah... but he's got that "gangsta lean" going on.

[tonyhind86]

An just another question: why is there a wampa at the water station?

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/WA_S4Dec15-FINAL-297x300.jpghttp://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100125174110/starwars/images/8/8f/Wampa-SWM80.jpg


The Force is strong with this one...

[Gnex]

Here another question, why was Jay a quick turner, Datu a slow turner and Glenn was killed, why was Glenn single out?

Jay(character) was the lesser of the 2 Jay's in this episode!!!! The Better Jay(Datu) won out!!!

[Gnex]

Here another question, why was Jay a quick turner, Datu a slow turner and Glenn was killed, why was Glenn single out?

Seriously though......

I think what happened is that the little one got Glenn. I don't really think the little ones are trying to turn anyone, if it happens it happens, but I think the little ones are just trying to kill/destroy everything.............

After Glenn was toast, Datu and Jay manage to kill the Little one, and Jay is bitten by a normal. Then Datu was attacked and bitten.

As to why Jay turned fast and Datu is turning slowly........... time will tell....

[UndeadSweeper]

Seriously though......

I think what happened is that the little one got Glenn. I don't really think the little ones are trying to turn anyone, if it happens it happens, but I think the little ones are just trying to kill/destroy everything.............

After Glenn was toast, Datu and Jay manage to kill the Little one, and Jay is bitten by a normal. Then Datu was attacked and bitten.

As to why Jay turned fast and Datu is turning slowly........... time will tell....

The weird thing this isn't the first time this has happen. Remember the copter? Kimet's daughter was torn up? , then some and all the soldier were turn. It seem they have an idea who to change.

[tonyhind86]

The weird thing this isn't the first time this has happen. Remember the copter? Kimet's daughter was torn up? , then some and all the soldier were turn. It seem they have an idea who to change.

It was the same in the first episode - some people were slaughtered, others were just bitten and allowed to turn...

[UndeadSweeper]

It was the same in the first episode - some people were slaughtered, others were just bitten and allowed to turn...

I was think more of the ADLO.

[shaynesdad]

I’m a grade A.. next level … hanging out in the water tower with Skittles, lurker. Love the podcast… and sneak into the forums… but too lazy to navigate fully all of the threads… I spent an hour last night putting together a post on the ipad and lost it all before the post was complete… Frustrating…. That being said, I’ll (re)assemble them all here. They are random and all over the place… but going forward from this chapter this is what I think could be going down and has gone down.

Cover art:
The cover art is obviously the water works. Since the pump is blown we can probably assume two things.
A-they will try to recover another pump from the water works that will handle the task
B-since Datu doesn’t seem to be a Zom food source at this time… he can slip in to the water works and attempt to get the system back online. Being a slow turner and now one of the Zom gang… he can walk and work as one of them and get things done that need to be done.

Puck:
Puck is obviously pissed at Michael for not allowing his team to deal with the threat that Datu will attach at any moment. It really seems that Michael has done the same thing that caused Victor to be shunned from the “Team” by doing something that puts the Team at risk. My guess is that Puck will no follow Michaels lead for much longer, or decide to head out on his own.. and in doing so, become lunch. Either way… he is toast very soon. Also, I’m not sure if this has come up before or not but Scratch was talking to Tardust just before the assault on the coliseum and asked if someone named Puck has some things ready… What are the chances of two unrelated Pucks living in the same small world of We’re Alive and not being significant?

Victor/Randy/Mr McKibbon:
He was an insurance salesman? Not sure about most of you folks.. but we had a few “insurance salesmen” in the neighborhood that I grew up in… and they weren't the kind with the corny TV commercials with lizards and pigs… These were “enforcer” knee breaking types… Sounds like Victor has a bit more of a colorful past… which leads me to Mr McKibbon. When flipping through the pages of the case files at Dunbar, Victor stopped on his photo and said he looked familiar. After that Kelly made a joke that he may have been some biker that Victor beat up. Something in that photo gave her the biker vibe. I think it was the long hair and beard that so many bikers wear. Who else has long hair and a beard? Randy. What if Mr McKibbon is Randy. Randy could be a middle name, or it could be an assumed name. When the outbreak happened Mr McKibbon may have gotten out of the courthouse somehow and made his way to Dunbar. He possible could have assumed the name of Randy so that his more unique name McKibbon wasn’t recognized and it be known that he is a criminal. I’m sure that Ceej wouldn’t have allowed a known criminal in Dunbar. I think we will find out when they get back to the water works.

Lastly.. how will it all end (just for fun):
I think that the end of the final Chapter may go something like this… We hear Michaels voice narrating .. and slowly the voice of Skittles fades in reading. He has found the journals somehow and has been reading the story to us the whole time. In the background we hear Lady whimpering.. and little Saul Jr cooing in baby talk…. The Skittles closes the journal to feed the baby…

Que the “CAW CAW” the end.

Sorry if this isn’t the right place to put all of these things. But it seems to fit given the velocity of these last two chapters.
Ok, I’ll climb back into the water tower now and wait it out.

[Elisa]

I like your thoughts there shaynesdad. Just a couple of comments

- The waterworks is back in LA. Honestly I think this is more of a flashback or maybe the gang without Datu (RIP) going back over there. I just don't think Datu will last that long. :zombieglomp:

- I think Kc mentioned that Puck 1 and Puck 2 are not related. Honestly I don't think Puck will unfollow Michael, I mean who is gonna take orders from now? CJ? rofl

- Randy is Austin McKibbon? Sure why not?

[tonyhind86]

Remember when Dunbar sent out "Randy and the other techies" to the water works? I've just relistened to the chapter when Michael, Angel, Datu and Riley were there. They found a few recently-killed civilians who may well have been the techies.
In Chapter 40, we were shown the place where Ink was turned. Maybe Chapter 41 is when we hear about when Randy was turned.

[Grognaurd]

Oh, wow. Now I have to think and relisten. Was it Biker or was it Biter? I heard biter. As in it was a random biter that Victor saw. I love the idea that it was biker...

I ran a chainsaw in the Summer to put myself through school and sometimes I miss things like this.

[tonyhind86]

Everytime I picture Randy now, I'm forever to be reminded of the biker from Terminator 2 that loses his clothes, his boots and his motorcycle...

[Witch_Doctor]

Cover art:
The cover art is obviously the water works. ...

Victor/Randy/Mr McKibbon:
He was an insurance salesman? Not sure about most of you folks.. but we had a few “insurance salesmen” in the neighborhood that I grew up in… and they weren't the kind with the corny TV commercials with lizards and pigs… These were “enforcer” knee breaking types… ...

Nice idea about the pump. The 'insurance' man angle always seemed like what Victor really meant. Then again, maybe he did hang out with pigs, cavemen and lizards; He had a curt response Pippin's claim of being a salesman.

I thin Kelly said 'biter', not 'biker'. "Perhaps he was some biter you shot in the face."

[LiamKerrington]

One side note, not super critical, but it was Angel not Michael who pushed wearing the uniform.

Mh ... Yeah, you are right. I confused things. Michael did the pep-talk at about 16 minutes in episode #1-1, but Angel highlighted the meaning of the uniform. I am sorry. But this does not invalidate what I ment to say, 'cause Michael "lives" the spirit. But the detail you mentioned is important and is one of the many reasons to like Angel, actually ... (Don't kill me for writing this, Nikvoodoo ...!)

Best wishes!
Liam

[LiamKerrington]

Liam, I have read your theories on CJ's character - do you think there could be anything more to her in terms of the whole story arc of WA?
As I mentioned in another post, whilst she is recalling the attack on her tower to Saul & Victor when she first meets them, we are taken back to listen to the action unfold.
1. She is left in the basement on her own, the Zeds are approaching & we here (presumably) Ink say 'leave her' - why do you think this is?
2. Any connection to Datu being left alive too??
3. Also on the theory of race, CJ & Datu are both from different racial backgrounds, as with Saul & Tanya etc... Is Ink aware of their slow turning?
4. Was this a clue back then when he said to leave CJ alone?
Interesting!!

As for 1: Them smart zombs have an understanding of cost and benefit; what good is it to hunt down a single human being while risking too many of them zombos' kin? You could argue that them zombs did not know that CJ was heavily armed; but they have keen ears, and at least the smart ones / Ink could have concluded from the noise being made by CJ that she was well euqipped. This, btw., is nothing more than a conclusion combining several facts from the WA world.
2. No. There is no connection, in which leaving CJ and Datu alive. Two very different situations.
3. Maybe Ink or smart ones are aware of this - maybe even any zombie with a special scent-ability, 'cause slow turners might emit special hormons or stuff. Maybe. We have no confirmation for such a theory; but I think it is not unlikely. The basic scientific layout of the whole zombie-theme in WA seems to be quite "believable", making this zombocalypse a fine piece of science fiction art ...
4. Maybe. But what do we know about CJ having been infected before the Fall of Dunbar? We have literally not a single clue or information about any incident allowing us to guess something like this. This would be quite a wild card argument. And I understand the complex structures of WA as being solid and well thought through; I remember Kc mentioning that anything makes sense and that he offers us all the information we need to properly understand the situation. That is why I stick to all the available information and the conclusions you can take of those; but I won't dig deep into guessing and assuming with little solid information.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Gooer]

I’m a grade A.. next level … hanging out in the water tower with Skittles, lurker. Love the podcast… and sneak into the forums… but too lazy to navigate fully all of the threads… I spent an hour last night putting together a post on the ipad and lost it all before the post was complete… Frustrating…. That being said, I’ll (re)assemble them all here. They are random and all over the place… but going forward from this chapter this is what I think could be going down and has gone down.

Cover art:
The cover art is obviously the water works. Since the pump is blown we can probably assume two things.
A-they will try to recover another pump from the water works that will handle the task
B-since Datu doesn’t seem to be a Zom food source at this time… he can slip in to the water works and attempt to get the system back online. Being a slow turner and now one of the Zom gang… he can walk and work as one of them and get things done that need to be done.

Puck:
Puck is obviously pissed at Michael for not allowing his team to deal with the threat that Datu will attach at any moment. It really seems that Michael has done the same thing that caused Victor to be shunned from the “Team” by doing something that puts the Team at risk. My guess is that Puck will no follow Michaels lead for much longer, or decide to head out on his own.. and in doing so, become lunch. Either way… he is toast very soon. Also, I’m not sure if this has come up before or not but Scratch was talking to Tardust just before the assault on the coliseum and asked if someone named Puck has some things ready… What are the chances of two unrelated Pucks living in the same small world of We’re Alive and not being significant?

Victor/Randy/Mr McKibbon:
He was an insurance salesman? Not sure about most of you folks.. but we had a few “insurance salesmen” in the neighborhood that I grew up in… and they weren't the kind with the corny TV commercials with lizards and pigs… These were “enforcer” knee breaking types… Sounds like Victor has a bit more of a colorful past… which leads me to Mr McKibbon. When flipping through the pages of the case files at Dunbar, Victor stopped on his photo and said he looked familiar. After that Kelly made a joke that he may have been some biker that Victor beat up. Something in that photo gave her the biker vibe. I think it was the long hair and beard that so many bikers wear. Who else has long hair and a beard? Randy. What if Mr McKibbon is Randy. Randy could be a middle name, or it could be an assumed name. When the outbreak happened Mr McKibbon may have gotten out of the courthouse somehow and made his way to Dunbar. He possible could have assumed the name of Randy so that his more unique name McKibbon wasn’t recognized and it be known that he is a criminal. I’m sure that Ceej wouldn’t have allowed a known criminal in Dunbar. I think we will find out when they get back to the water works.

Lastly.. how will it all end (just for fun):
I think that the end of the final Chapter may go something like this… We hear Michaels voice narrating .. and slowly the voice of Skittles fades in reading. He has found the journals somehow and has been reading the story to us the whole time. In the background we hear Lady whimpering.. and little Saul Jr cooing in baby talk…. The Skittles closes the journal to feed the baby…

Que the “CAW CAW” the end.

Sorry if this isn’t the right place to put all of these things. But it seems to fit given the velocity of these last two chapters.
Ok, I’ll climb back into the water tower now and wait it out.

I believe, Corporal Puck was stuck at Fort Irwin since the outbreak started, and the "other" Puck died within the explosion of the tanker, so it seems unlikely they're the same person, unless he's Jesus. And i thought Kelly said it was some biter he killed.....but i might be wrong on that...

[Gooer]

Remember when Dunbar sent out "Randy and the other techies" to the water works? I've just relistened to the chapter when Michael, Angel, Datu and Riley were there. They found a few recently-killed civilians who may well have been the techies.
In Chapter 40, we were shown the place where Ink was turned. Maybe Chapter 41 is when we hear about when Randy was turned.

Hopefully, we hear about Michael's arm, and within that story, of who Randy is to Michael, and how it all happened....

[tonyhind86]

Hopefully, we hear about Michael's arm, and within that story, of who Randy is to Michael, and how it all happened....

I hope so. It's obvious that Michael must have known him before he turned (how else would he know Randy by name?). The question is, did they first meet at the water works, or before the outbreak?

[nikvoodoo]

I believe, Corporal Puck was stuck at Fort Irwin sinc the outbreak started, and the "other" Puck died within the explosion of the tanker, so it seems unlikely they're the same person, unless he's Jesus. And i thought Kelly said it was some biter he killed.....but i might be wrong on that...

You are correct about Puck vs. Puck. Maller Puck liked hockey. Military Puck is just a snark filled bag of fun.

[Kc]

You are correct about Puck vs. Puck. Maller Puck liked hockey. Military Puck is just a snark filled bag of fun.

I'm going to fix that... The Maller "Puck" is going to be named "Sticks".

[pmchawk]

I'm going to fix that... The Maller "Puck" is going to be named "Sticks".

But we might get that confused with this old man who played six.

[tonyhind86]

I'm going to fix that... The Maller "Puck" is going to be named "Sticks".

So now we can refer to the Mallers as "Sticks, Bricks and a whole bunch of pricks"

:D

[Witch_Doctor]

I'm going to fix that... The Maller "Puck" is going to be named "Sticks".

But then people will assume that he's Brick's twin brother. Sticks and Bricks McGillicutty. "Them thar McGillicutty boys are like sticks & stones. They'll break your bone but they ain't much on talkin."

[pmchawk]

Oh, I'm looking forward to see Hope's reaction to this.

[Gooer]

So now we can refer to the Mallers as "Sticks, Bricks and a whole bunch of pricks"

:D

Hahahaa...... I'd rep you if it let me....

[REZombie]

Hmmmm.... Random thought for the day, and probably not right...but this whole scenario ran through my head..... In listening to when R2Da2 got bit...it kinda seems like it was purposely infecting him and not trying to kill him...then it really does sound like "Get Up" in a zombie voice. Had thought...What if that "get up" was meant as "Get up, you are ok"? Has R2Da2, ever seen or heard about Randy? Could Randy have infected him? I have a feeling that Randy is up to something, and i honestly don't think its in Inks best interest. We know he is running around with chems in a bag, he was interested in Tanya...maybe he has figured out who will or wont turn, and knows it will give a huge advantage to the "good guys"..and aside from showing them, its not like he could just walk up and explain it, they cant talk that well and plus they'd kill him.

With the cover art, something has to tie in to either going back or hearing Micheal's story...What better why then if R2Da2 mentions something about the biter that bit him and Micheal recognizing it as Randy and thus leading into the story....

[shaynesdad]

Oh, I'm looking forward to see Hope's reaction to this.

Just one more thing for her to whine about

[shaynesdad]

Oh, wow. Now I have to think and relisten. Was it Biker or was it Biter? I heard biter. As in it was a random biter that Victor saw. I love the idea that it was biker...

I ran a chainsaw in the Summer to put myself through school and sometimes I miss things like this.

It may just be biter... My AR has taken a toll on my can hangers to

[shaynesdad]

I like your thoughts there shaynesdad. Just a couple of comments

- The waterworks is back in LA. Honestly I think this is more of a flashback or maybe the gang without Datu (RIP) going back over there. I just don't think Datu will last that long. :zombieglomp:

- I think Kc mentioned that Puck 1 and Puck 2 are not related. Honestly I don't think Puck will unfollow Michael, I mean who is gonna take orders from now? CJ? rofl

- Randy is Austin McKibbon? Sure why not?

Wasn't sure about the Puck thing...still convinced that Datu will be the passport back into the water works...time will tell......in two freakin weeks

[shaynesdad]

I hope so. It's obvious that Michael must have known him before he turned (how else would he know Randy by name?). The question is, did they first meet at the water works, or before the outbreak?

The very first theory I had regarding randy went way back to 1-1. The professor in the class that Michael walked out off. Long haired long bearded professor in LA wouldn't be a stretch...

[shaynesdad]

I'm going to fix that... The Maller "Puck" is going to be named "Sticks".

I'll Scratch that off my list then...still thinking snarky Pucks time is running out

[Gnex]

Nice idea about the pump. The 'insurance' man angle always seemed like what Victor really meant. Then again, maybe he did hang out with pigs, cavemen and lizards; He had a curt response Pippin's claim of being a salesman.

I thin Kelly said 'biter', not 'biker'. "Perhaps he was some biter you shot in the face."

I don't think Randy and McKibben are the same people for the simple fact that Michael also saw the picture and said nothing.......

Also in the chapter some narrating says that CJ already sent people out looking for the parts Datu needs.......

So unless CJ is sending more innocent people to their deaths(highly likely) we won't be seeing Michael go back to the waterworks unless it is a rescue mission......

[LiamKerrington]

Hmmmm.... Random thought for the day, and probably not right...but this whole scenario ran through my head..... In listening to when R2Da2 got bit...it kinda seems like it was purposely infecting him and not trying to kill him...then it really does sound like "Get Up" in a zombie voice. Had thought...What if that "get up" was meant as "Get up, you are ok"? Has R2Da2, ever seen or heard about Randy? Could Randy have infected him? I have a feeling that Randy is up to something, and i honestly don't think its in Inks best interest. We know he is running around with chems in a bag, he was interested in Tanya...maybe he has figured out who will or wont turn, and knows it will give a huge advantage to the "good guys"..and aside from showing them, its not like he could just walk up and explain it, they cant talk that well and plus they'd kill him.


Hi. I am quite certain that this idea might not be half as far-fetched as you assume it to be. Let's imagine, people with a certain IQ or technical skill have a different scent to themselves - wouldn't them zombs try to infect those in order to enhance their "skilled crew" for own purposes of survival?
Or, if this is not a matter of scent but a matter of observation (CJ mentioned that Glenn and Datu worked on the windmill for quite some time and thus were a pretty target for observation), then them zombs might have understood that R2Da2 is infact to be infected in order to deal with engineering shit for them zombs. Why not Glenn? 'cause he was too old, and zombification might not have worked on him.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Storm]

Hi. I am quite certain that this idea might not be half as far-fetched as you assume it to be. Let's imagine, people with a certain IQ or technical skill have a different scent to themselves - wouldn't them zombs try to infect those in order to enhance their "skilled crew" for own purposes of survival?
Or, if this is not a matter of scent but a matter of observation (CJ mentioned that Glenn and Datu worked on the windmill for quite some time and thus were a pretty target for observation), then them zombs might have understood that R2Da2 is infact to be infected in order to deal with engineering shit for them zombs. Why not Glenn? 'cause he was too old, and zombification might not have worked on him.

Best wishes!
Liam


But didn't Kc kinda say in the last episode's topic that Randy wasn't in that scene? ... I can't remember... *Starts googling*
Here it is...:

How bout I tell you what is NOT correct.
The following do not happen in the last episode:

z3 is killed by Randy.
Randy tells Datu "Get Up".
Randy drags Datu to the truck or a nearby radio.
Datu calls for help.


and, just because I said this on twitter:
"Datu is alive at the end of the episode" And "Datu is alone, on the ground"

[Osiris]

Only 29 pages of speculation? You're all letting me down.

[Gooer]

Only 29 pages of speculation? You're all letting me down.

It's only been 4 days.....gave us a chance :c

[LiamKerrington]

But didn't Kc kinda say in the last episode's topic that Randy wasn't in that scene? ... I can't remember... *Starts googling*
Here it is...:

How bout I tell you what is NOT correct.
The following do not happen in the last episode:

z3 is killed by Randy.
Randy tells Datu "Get Up".
Randy drags Datu to the truck or a nearby radio.
Datu calls for help.


and, just because I said this on twitter:
"Datu is alive at the end of the episode" And "Datu is alone, on the ground"

Does observation require it to be Randy who does it? Or could it be almost any other more or less smart zombie? I don't see Randy in #40 or #41 (yet), 'cause we really have no single clue pointint us to him being there. Under normal conditions Michael describes him as an outstanding character in the zombie-horde; this we do not have here.

[Grognaurd]

Osmotic Pressure

Here is a pretty good link to what I was talking about.

http://legacy.hopkinsville.kctcs.edu/instructors/Jason-Arnold/VLI/Module%202/m2cellfunctionandenergetics/m2cellfunctionandenergetics6.html

Rain would be "Hypotonic". No clue if KC is going this route, but it has merit. However, like everything KC does it is complicated. Once whatever it is gets into the bloodstream, it does a hell of a job getting out of the blood and hiding. Tanya has not been able to find it in the blood directly. K18 is a byproduct and Kimmet said the only way to detect it was autopsy. Sounds like it hides out in the brain...

[Gooer]

Osmotic Pressure

Here is a pretty good link to what I was talking about.

http://legacy.hopkinsville.kctcs.edu/instructors/Jason-Arnold/VLI/Module%202/m2cellfunctionandenergetics/m2cellfunctionandenergetics6.html

Rain would be "Hypotonic". No clue if KC is going this route, but it has merit. However, like everything KC does it is complicated. Once whatever it is gets into the bloodstream, it does a hell of a job getting out of the blood and hiding. Tanya has not been able to find it in the blood directly. K18 is a byproduct and Kimmet said the only way to detect it was autopsy. Sounds like it hides out in the brain...

Would make sense. Could give a reason why it would be incurable, besides from the organ mutations - can't reach the brain without killing the patient....

[Gnex]

But didn't Kc kinda say in the last episode's topic that Randy wasn't in that scene? ... I can't remember... *Starts googling*
Here it is...:

How bout I tell you what is NOT correct.
The following do not happen in the last episode:

z3 is killed by Randy.
Randy tells Datu "Get Up".
Randy drags Datu to the truck or a nearby radio.
Datu calls for help.


and, just because I said this on twitter:
"Datu is alive at the end of the episode" And "Datu is alone, on the ground"


I don't believe Randy was there at all.

Now, that being said....

Nothing in the above comments states that Randy was not there........

z3 is killed by Randy. Maybe there was no Z3??? Maybe there was and Randy was there and didn't kill it??
Randy tells Datu "Get Up". Maybe Randy was there but just wasn't the Zombie to speak??
Randy drags Datu to the truck or a nearby radio. Maybe Randy was there but just wasn't the Zombie to drag Datu??
Datu calls for help.


So needless to say..... I don't believe Randy was there..... but there is nothing that states he wasn't....... implied? yes! But.......... KC is KC!!! :squint:

[Unit]

CJ make Micheal finally tell us the water pumping station story! Or may he tells Datu the story to keep him focus throughout the night.

I hope so!!!

[Unit]

All I know is the minute I heard Pegs voice, I said Pegs??!?!?? Really?!?? Why the heck is Pegs here?!?? Where is Hope?!???

Getting the feeling CJ is going to try and take Pegs under her wing so to speak and turn her into the #2 in charge, or perhaps CJ's PR rep. Pegs seems to be the polar opposite of CJ, perhaps she can fill the emotional feel good side that CJ is lacking and help her maintain control in the Colony, especially if things get worse with water and ammo and such. She doesn't want people to bail like what happened at Dunbar.

[Elisa]

Getting the feeling CJ is going to try and take Pegs under her wing so to speak and turn her into the #2 in charge, or perhaps CJ's PR rep. Pegs seems to be the polar opposite of CJ, perhaps she can fill the emotional feel good side that CJ is lacking and help her maintain control in the Colony, especially if things get worse with water and ammo and such. She doesn't want people to bail like what happened at Dunbar.

She is doing that to control Michael :mad:

[Gooer]

Getting the feeling CJ is going to try and take Pegs under her wing so to speak and turn her into the #2 in charge, or perhaps CJ's PR rep. Pegs seems to be the polar opposite of CJ, perhaps she can fill the emotional feel good side that CJ is lacking and help her maintain control in the Colony, especially if things get worse with water and ammo and such. She doesn't want people to bail like what happened at Dunbar.

The idea of Pegs being in a position of command doesn't sit right.....She's more a follower than a leader, but then again, we haven't given her a shot, so maybe she actually is a good leader...? Also, CJ seems to prefer running everything herself, considering (I think) we haven't heard her ask anyone for help. Pegs offered it to her, but she had to persist, since CJ thinks she isn't apparently clever enough...

[tonyhind86]

The idea of Pegs being in a position of command doesn't sit right.....She's more a follower than a leader, but then again, we haven't given her a shot, so maybe she actually is a good leader...? Also, CJ seems to prefer running everything herself, considering (I think) we haven't heard her ask anyone for help. Pegs offered it to her, but she had to persist, since CJ thinks she isn't apparently clever enough...

And CJ did sound very sarcastic when Pegs was telling her about the cows producing milk.

"So I guess steak is off the menu then"

[Gooer]

And CJ did sound very sarcastic when Pegs was telling her about the cows producing milk.

"So I guess steak is off the menu then"

Imagine a world without milk.....AND FRESH MEAT? I couldn't survive....

[tonyhind86]

Imagine a world without milk.....AND FRESH MEAT? I couldn't survive....

It doesn't bear thinking about. I'd rather be a zombie than a vegan :D

[Cabbage Patch]

...i don't think the Zeds smelling the way they do (like poo) is anything to speculate...[QUOTE]

In Chapter 5, part 1 Saul sums it up..."Shit, they smell like shit".

[QUOTE=Footbutt;69601]...Consider TOWTM didn't 'smell', as far as we know. they even assumed he was a normal.

I don't know if this was ever settled, though it's telling that they don't mention him smelling like a normal biter.

I keep thinking back to when Saul, Lizzie and Burt were investigating the site where the convoy from Dunbar had been ambushed, also in Chapter 5, part 1. Lizzie proved that a zombie drove the car that blocked the convoy's route by opening the door and pointing out that the inside smelled like zombie. I just assumed that it was Ink/TOWTHM that drove that car, so I've always thought that he smelled like shit too.

[7oddisdead]

Imagine a world without milk.....AND FRESH MEAT? I couldn't survive....

I couldn't go without meat either....milk however....

good riddance, I seen, tasted, been around the stuff long enough to last three lifetimes. Kill the cows pegs, meat/milk everyday.(!)

[7oddisdead]

[QUOTE=Footbutt;69601]...i don't think the Zeds smelling the way they do (like poo) is anything to speculate...[QUOTE]

In Chapter 5, part 1 Saul sums it up..."Shit, they smell like shit".



I don't know if this was ever settled, though it's telling that they don't mention him smelling like a normal biter.

I keep thinking back to when Saul, Lizzie and Burt were investigating the site where the convoy from Dunbar had been ambushed, also in Chapter 5, part 1. Lizzie proved that a zombie drove the car that blocked the convoy's route by opening the door and pointing out that the inside smelled like zombie. I just assumed that it was Ink/TOWTHM that drove that car, so I've always thought that he smelled like shit too.

have to agree with cabbage here. The smell is absolutely something we can speculate on. The smell of the biters could indicate what exactly is going on with them internally. I don't believe ALL of them are pooping their pants.

and good point about the car cabbage. The only thing I can say to refute the idea of bill moving the car himself is biters did capture datu without harming him. Regular biters...now is that the same as moving the car? Starting it, putting it in gear and driving? No...but I can suspend my disbelief that far. At least for the sake of keeping ink un-poop-smelly.

;)

[Gooer]

I couldn't go without meat either....milk however....

good riddance, I seen, tasted, been around the stuff long enough to last three lifetimes. Kill the cows pegs, meat/milk everyday.(!)

But.....WHAT WOULD YOU PUT ON YOUR CEREAL? Hopefully not Tang, like Angel did.....

[7oddisdead]

Good gravy no! Oatmeal stout. Doesn't everybody do that?

[Gooer]

Good gravy no! Oatmeal stout. Doesn't everybody do that?

I try to go with heavier stuff, you know, rum, vodka, whiskey...

[Grognaurd]

The Smells of We're Alive are quite interesting. We have the biter stench. It is described several times. However, smell also comes into play at other times. Most notably, Lizzy's Puke. Tardust and Bricks are really bothered by it, Lizzy does not reference the sent, nor does Scratch. At the Arena Saul says someone lost their lunch. I got the impression it was visual, not OMG that stinks.

Saul comments that Angel smells worse than normal. Was that at the party? Was it booze breath? Something more. Later Burt says Angel is puking in the bathroom.

When they arrive at Irwin, Puck says nothing sarge, except you all smell like shit. Not really enough water to bathe, so probably just BO. But, the term was shit. Good general slang or something more? Later, when Puck gets to the Colony at the end of season 3, puck says something like where's the love, you all stink anyway. Again, just general slang?

[Grognaurd]

Good gravy no! Oatmeal stout. Doesn't everybody do that?

Yum.

A friend used to brew beer with coffee, called it buzzbeer

[Gooer]

The Smells of We're Alive are quite interesting. We have the biter stench. It is described several times. However, smell also comes into play at other times. Most notably, Lizzy's Puke. Tardust and Bricks are really bothered by it, Lizzy does not reference the sent, nor does Scratch. At the Arena Saul says someone lost their lunch. I got the impression it was visual, not OMG that stinks.

Saul comments that Angel smells worse than normal. Was that at the party? Was it booze breath? Something more. Later Burt says Angel is puking in the bathroom.

When they arrive at Irwin, Puck says nothing sarge, except you all smell like shit. Not really enough water to bathe, so probably just BO. But, the term was shit. Good general slang or something more? Later, when Puck gets to the Colony at the end of season 3, puck says something like where's the love, you all stink anyway. Again, just general slang?

I think Angel was smelling due to him throwing up - maybe he got some on himself? And with Puck, due to the fact he could clean more often then our other survivors, he isn't used to the smell of medieval hygiene...mixed with zombie corpse.

[Footbutt]

[QUOTE=Cabbage Patch;69696][QUOTE=Footbutt;69601]...i don't think the Zeds smelling the way they do (like poo) is anything to speculate...

have to agree with cabbage here. The smell is absolutely something we can speculate on. The smell of the biters could indicate what exactly is going on with them internally. I don't believe ALL of them are pooping their pants.

and good point about the car cabbage. The only thing I can say to refute the idea of bill moving the car himself is biters did capture datu without harming him. Regular biters...now is that the same as moving the car? Starting it, putting it in gear and driving? No...but I can suspend my disbelief that far. At least for the sake of keeping ink un-poop-smelly.
;)

very good points, fellas.
i kinda forgot about that line of Puck's: "They're not the only ones that can follow a scent now."

and thinking about it more, yeah, there has to be something going on with their internal plumbing that it's right.
the fact that we have only seen dead/dying Behemoths and NOT dead/dying biters means that the zombie-causing agent isn't a complete death sentence just yet. (we know Behemoths were modified)

[Teej]

Finally was able to to listen to this episode, sucks working in areas with 0 internet connection or cell service... but after finally hearing and then reading this 31 page saga (kinda slow at work today...) i have 3 comments to make

-First as a petroleum engineer by trade i feel the need to address this because i didn't see it commented on by anyone else:

So, let us fix the pump / well problem for poor Datu. He cannot get the right current/voltage to the pump to lift the hydrostatic head up out of the ground. He keeps trying to supply more power to lift the head. Let's turn that around. Shrink the weight of the head.

The weight of the head is a function of the length of the pipe and the pipe diameter. Can he put pipes or sticks inside the pipe to occupy space to reduce the effective diameter of the pipe? They do not have to run the big generator 24/7 to get enough water for the colony, it seems they just have to use it because it is the only thing with enough power. My guess, it is over engineered. Shrink the head Datu...

:tinfoil: just a guess...

We have this ( ).... Maybe we can turn it into this (o) and reduce the amount of power required

I have no idea if it will work, I am not an engineer, I am a general manager that lives outside of the box, helping techies redefine their problems with fresh eyes
while this is a great idea, and i do hate to burst bubbles, its not quite the way it works. Hydrostatic head is a pressure rather than a weight and is completely independent of area (pipe diameter), the equation is density X gravity X column height. because fluid moves not as a solid piece but as independent particles, the only surface area that matters is the surface area of the inside of the pump, which is fixed. So in this scenario, the only thing dictating the head the pump has to lift is the depth it is set below the surface, making the pipe smaller could even make the problem worse by increasing pipe friction (though this is not likely at the flow rates they would be seeing). This scenario is simply a matter of optimizing the pump depth where it is deep enough that the water can flow up to the pump on its own, yet still shallow enough that the pump can provide enough pressure to get the water to the surface.

-Second with all this talk of Datu dying, i know it may be a long shot, but i will believe it when his heart stops beating and/or he actually turns. until then, crazy or not, i'm not buying it.

-and last lets all agree that the absolute worst part of this episode was "Due to the holidays, next week's episode will be released in two weeks." im glad i was in the car alone b/c i may have actually yelled out "WTF! I just waited two weeks" and especially with these cliff hangers... here's my suggestion. how about instead of this, next week, as a Christmas present to us all, Kc releases part 2 AND part 3 at the same time... maybe...

[Gnex]

-and last lets all agree that the absolute worst part of this episode was "Due to the holidays, next week's episode will be released in two weeks." im glad i was in the car alone b/c i may have actually yelled out "WTF! I just waited two weeks" and especially with these cliff hangers... here's my suggestion. how about instead of this, next week, as a Christmas present to us all, Kc releases part 2 AND part 3 at the same time... maybe...

^^ THIS!!! YES PLEASE!!!! :omgomg: Make this happen KC!!!! :yay:

[Grognaurd]

Thanks for your post Teej, seems strange to me. Density and gravity are constant for the well, so we are left with depth. The water table of this well is affectively a constant for the moment. That leaves nothing. So any pump will do? Wouldnt the pump have to be strong enough to hold the weight of the prime? That weight is a function of height x width of the water column. If the pump cannot hold the prime it collapses and we have to start all over again.

Like I said, I am not an engineer, but I see two problems, one the weight of the water column, that I guess really isn't a problem, and the displacement problem of how much water is moved with each cycle.

[EatMyShorts]

I've got feeling that there are too many (or we are at the limit of) living characters for this story to keep up with. That doesn't bode well for the colony or "Dead too", er I mean Datu.

A separate miniseries about what Burt and Riley are up to would be cool though...

[tonyhind86]

There's still 8 full chapters left, that should be plenty of time to wrap things up.

[Witch_Doctor]

[QUOTE=Footbutt;69601]...i don't think the Zeds smelling the way they do (like poo) is anything to speculate...[QUOTE]
In Chapter 5, part 1 Saul sums it up..."Shit, they smell like shit".
I don't know if this was ever settled, though it's telling that they don't mention him smelling like a normal biter.
I keep thinking back to when Saul, Lizzie and Burt were investigating the site where the convoy from Dunbar had been ambushed, also in Chapter 5, part 1. Lizzie proved that a zombie drove the car that blocked the convoy's route by opening the door and pointing out that the inside smelled like zombie. I just assumed that it was Ink/TOWTHM that drove that car, so I've always thought that he smelled like shit too.

Same thought here. I've been racking my brains trying to determine if they smelled it any other time in his presence.

[Unit]

The idea of Pegs being in a position of command doesn't sit right.....She's more a follower than a leader, but then again, we haven't given her a shot, so maybe she actually is a good leader...? Also, CJ seems to prefer running everything herself, considering (I think) we haven't heard her ask anyone for help. Pegs offered it to her, but she had to persist, since CJ thinks she isn't apparently clever enough...

I'm not saying in charge or a leader, I'm saying Pegs is her front, her public relations rep, make her feel good and then send her out to play cheerleader and such. CJ will always want to be the one making the decisions and calling the shots as far as I can see. But if things start getting really bad in the Colony (which it appears they might soon) then CJ may loose her 'majority vote' position and people may look to replace her, or bail ont he Colony all together and look for something better elsewhere.

If CJ still had full use of both legs she might actually be OK with that, but in her current physical state, she now NEEDS to have others around to help protect her. She likely can't go it solo like she was able to do at Dunbar. She needs to figure out a way to at least keep the colony members around her and at least semi satisfied with her. So in comes queen of the glass half full Pegs. Who better to make people feel good and hopeful about the future?

[scbubba]

[QUOTE=Cabbage Patch;69696][QUOTE=Footbutt;69601]...i don't think the Zeds smelling the way they do (like poo) is anything to speculate...

Same thought here. I've been racking my brains trying to determine if they smelled it any other time in his presence.

There are stretches of the show where the smell isn't called out at all. In some of the encounters, though, it's a life and death affair so the smell (that everyone may have kind accepted as common now) may not be worth commenting on.

I need to go back an check but when Puck mentions following a smell trail, I wonder if it is Randy that smells or other normal biters in the vicinity that smell?

[Witch_Doctor]

i don't think the Zeds smelling the way they do (like poo) is anything to speculate. they simply don't have the clarity to pull down their pants when their tummybox starts rumbling. Consider TOWTM didn't 'smell', as far as we know. they even assumed he was a normal.



...i don't think the Zeds smelling the way they do (like poo) is anything to speculate...

In Chapter 5, part 1 Saul sums it up..."Shit, they smell like shit".



I don't know if this was ever settled, though it's telling that they don't mention him smelling like a normal biter.

I keep thinking back to when Saul, Lizzie and Burt were investigating the site where the convoy from Dunbar had been ambushed, also in Chapter 5, part 1. Lizzie proved that a zombie drove the car that blocked the convoy's route by opening the door and pointing out that the inside smelled like zombie. I just assumed that it was Ink/TOWTHM that drove that car, so I've always thought that he smelled like shit too.




Same thought here. I've been racking my brains trying to determine if they smelled it any other time in his presence.
Found it. Chapter 11 R&R, Part 1 at around 6:00. As they are entering the 2nd floor(?) Saul says, "You smell that?" Burt asks,"Not really, What is it, one of them?", Saul replies, "Maybe." They then come across Ink in the pinstripe suit.

[Unit]

Hey, there is something i have not thought about.....

What if Tanya tries giving Datu a blood transfusion from a healthy person? Could that drop his K18 levels enough to slow the infection, or even stop the infection all together?

Maybe push through a little meds as well, and it could possibly be a cure for slow turners.

From what Tanya gathers while doing research on the girl brought back is that the K18 levels are a byproduct of whatever causes the change, and once the change is complete the K18 returns to normal. But whatever actually causes the change she has not been able to find. Also whatever causes the change also leads to a complete restructure of some organs; if I remember right she mentions enlarged lungs and heart and additional arteries and aorta and hardened skin, so despite if it starts in the blood, eventually it leads to a change in the actual tissue and muscle of the body, so I wouldn't be able to see how a blood transfusion would stop it.

[Teej]

Density and gravity are constant for the well, so we are left with depth. The water table of this well is affectively a constant for the moment. That leaves nothing. So any pump will do? Wouldnt the pump have to be strong enough to hold the weight of the prime? That weight is a function of height x width of the water column. If the pump cannot hold the prime it collapses and we have to start all over again.

Like I said, I am not an engineer, but I see two problems, one the weight of the water column, that I guess really isn't a problem, and the displacement problem of how much water is moved with each cycle.

First, i went back an re-listened to him describe their setup, and for some reason i incorrectly remembered it being a submersible pump. the fact that it is not does complicate the scenario a bit. the height for the equation is the total vertical displacement from the level the water would be at if it were just an open hole in the ground, to the final holding tank. this is why when selecting well pumps you choose them primarily based on well depth. the pump they select will have an operating envelope of pressure differential required by the pump to move the fluid vs the flow rate it will put out for that pressure. so the displacement problem here could be an issue, as the closer you get to the maximum operating pressure of the pump, the less water it will move. It sounds like this is where their two pump setup was coming from. one pump to get the water from the water table to above ground, and the other to get it from ground level to their storage tank, wherever that is. this effectively splits the amount of hydrostatic head each pump will see.

as for holding the prime, if the pump wont hold the prime while running, it is probably too deep a well for the pump in use. it could also be that there is not check valve installed or the one they have is leaking. if its not holding prime for short shutdowns then they need a check valve (or a better one) at the pump because it is the valve that should hold the prime not the pump, during shutdowns. no check valve also makes it nearly impossible to prime up the pump initially to start it.

now the large pipe does present a unique opportunity in that if they could find the correct type of pump they could lower system into the well that is essentially two pipes in a loop with and opening at the bottom and a venturi nozzle. this is basically what is going on inside the pump but it moves the pressure generation point from inside the pump to down the well allowing you to lift water from deeper depths and also mostly eliminates priming issues. this is the setup that deep wells often use but takes a bit more know how to set up.

sorry if any of this gets wordy and confusing, and if i made any mistakes anyone please correct me. the wells i work on are much deeper and the equipment much bigger and slightly different than what is run in water wells. but the concepts are pretty much the same.

[Unit]

Almost a week late to this thread but I finally caught up.

Most everything has been covered but just a couple ideas I'll throw my name in with...

- I think CJ's care and emotional response about the colony was fake. I think she is a manipulator and she was using random facts she had documented in her files to elicit a response and get people on her side. That being said, I also don't think what happened to Glen, Jay and Datu is at all her fault.

- Pegs will become CJ's new head of PR for the Colony to keep people from ousting CJ or running off and leaving her holding the crutches alone.

- Even King Datu the Resourceful will not be able to get the water pump working. We are already moving towards running out of supplies in the Colony and we need something to force the story forward. If we have plenty of food growing and now milk and a way to get meat through animal reproduction, we are getting might comfortable... we need something to drive this story towards the end in the last 8 chapters.

- I don't think Randy had anything to do with the attack, but I do think that the attack on the pump was orchestrated. I am leaning towards a combination of depriving the colony of water and possibly of supplying water to the biters.

- I am not 100% sold on it yet, but I think there could be something to the blood type theory as to who gets turned and who gets eaten and who are the slow turners etc. Maybe some people are tastier than others and it has to do with their blood type. Maybe some people are more susceptible to turning based on blood type. Not sure yet.

- I agree Puck is getting fed up with Michael. The newlywed stage is fading. Michael is starting to pile up with mistakes in their eyes. I can see some changes in management comeing across the board (with CJ in the colony and with Michael and the soldiers). Perhaps that is part of the Ch title too? The storm coming for the different divisions within our group of survivors? Perhaps we get a glimpse of Scratch in this ch too and we see that her leadership is failing too and the remaining band of mallers are looking to replace her?

That is all for now :zombie:

And I am sorry for delays in the reptrivia quizzes too, I'll get some set up tonight or tomorrow so check back and test your skills!!! :cool:

[Gooer]

Almost a week late to this thread but I finally caught up.

Most everything has been covered but just a couple ideas I'll throw my name in with...

- I think CJ's care and emotional response about the colony was fake. I think she is a manipulator and she was using random facts she had documented in her files to elicit a response and get people on her side. That being said, I also don't think what happened to Glen, Jay and Datu is at all her fault.

- Pegs will become CJ's new head of PR for the Colony to keep people from ousting CJ or running off and leaving her holding the crutches alone.

- Even King Datu the Resourceful will not be able to get the water pump working. We are already moving towards running out of supplies in the Colony and we need something to force the story forward. If we have plenty of food growing and now milk and a way to get meat through animal reproduction, we are getting might comfortable... we need something to drive this story towards the end in the last 8 chapters.

- I don't think Randy had anything to do with the attack, but I do think that the attack on the pump was orchestrated. I am leaning towards a combination of depriving the colony of water and possibly of supplying water to the biters.

- I am not 100% sold on it yet, but I think there could be something to the blood type theory as to who gets turned and who gets eaten and who are the slow turners etc. Maybe some people are tastier than others and it has to do with their blood type. Maybe some people are more susceptible to turning based on blood type. Not sure yet.

- I agree Puck is getting fed up with Michael. The newlywed stage is fading. Michael is starting to pile up with mistakes in their eyes. I can see some changes in management comeing across the board (with CJ in the colony and with Michael and the soldiers). Perhaps that is part of the Ch title too? The storm coming for the different divisions within our group of survivors? Perhaps we get a glimpse of Scratch in this ch too and we see that her leadership is failing too and the remaining band of mallers are looking to replace her?

That is all for now :zombie:

And I am sorry for delays in the reptrivia quizzes too, I'll get some set up tonight or tomorrow so check back and test your skills!!! :cool:

I agree with you mostly, but i think another change in management isn't right, considering its happened so many times....don't think either CJ or Michael will quickly relinquish their roles of power. Also, i think the slow turning/(hopefully)immunity has to do with blood type, not who gets eaten/infected. Not sure how a zombie would gather information on a persons blood type, since i don't think people with different blood types give off different smells (although i could be wrong). Would be nice to see something from Burt/Riley vs the Mallers, although I MUST FIND OUT ABOUT MICHAEL'S ARM FIRST. But, with Puck getting fed up with Michael, and the water problems, i agree with, although i'm not too sure why they would need water....we don't know if they need it themselves, or they have just gathered that humans need it and need to find ways of bringing it to them.

[Unit]

I agree with you mostly, but i think another change in management isn't right, considering its happened so many times....don't think either CJ or Michael will quickly relinquish their roles of power.

They wouldn't have to relinquish it really. CJ is not in a position physically to stop anyone from doing anything, all she has is a mental edge over people. If she loses that or it becomes insignificant in the face of other mistakes, she has nothing left. For michael it is kinda the same boat. We saw what happened with Burt in the tower, once nobody wanted to follow Michael anymore he really didn't have anything over them. You are only a leader if there are people willing to follow you. If Puck, Muldoon and Robbins decide not to follow Michael anymore then honestly what can he do? He has nothing on them.

Perhaps not so much a change in leadership, more of a collapse in leadership is a more appropriate way of saying it.



Not sure how a zombie would gather information on a persons blood type, since i don't think people with different blood types give off different smells (although i could be wrong).

Maybe it is not intentional before hand on who turns and gets eaten. Perhaps they sink their teeth in, if it tastes good they keep eating, if not they move on to the next one? I don't know just spitballing some ideas here

[Red Shirt]

From what Tanya gathers while doing research on the girl brought back is that the K18 levels are a byproduct of whatever causes the change, and once the change is complete the K18 returns to normal. But whatever actually causes the change she has not been able to find. Also whatever causes the change also leads to a complete restructure of some organs; if I remember right she mentions enlarged lungs and heart and additional arteries and aorta and hardened skin, so despite if it starts in the blood, eventually it leads to a change in the actual tissue and muscle of the body, so I wouldn't be able to see how a blood transfusion would stop it.

- I am not 100% sold on it yet, but I think there could be something to the blood type theory as to who gets turned and who gets eaten and who are the slow turners etc. Maybe some people are tastier than others and it has to do with their blood type. Maybe some people are more susceptible to turning based on blood type. Not sure yet.

Also, i think the slow turning/(hopefully)immunity has to do with blood type, not who gets eaten/infected. Not sure how a zombie would gather information on a persons blood type, since i don't think people with different blood types give off different smells (although i could be wrong).

I thought I might have a deeper look into this... I am of the train of thought that transfusions from specific people just might confer at least slow turner status, if not actual immunity. Given that transfusions are already used for the treatment of many conditions, such as the lack of certain antibodies, it seemed plausible.
Maybe, just maybe I thought there could be a rare blood factor that may contribute to this. I already know there is more to blood typing than just the letter and +/- as in addition to my ABO type and Rh type, I also know my RhD type. (A subset of Rh)

So, I looked up Human blood group systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_blood_group_systems) for some insight... F*ck, what a can of worms this turned out to be.

Blood typing and Human blood factors are a mire of complex sub types. First, the ABO blood group system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABO_blood_group_system) yields part of the blood type scheme that everyone is familiar with: A, B, AB and O. Then there is the Rhesus or Rh factor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rh_blood_group_system), that is identified with the +/-, the other part we are familiar with. Then there's RhD factor I mentioned above. Then I found out that in ABO, there are the A1, A2, A1B and A2B subtypes, four of the more "common" of the more than 200 minor blood groups. Then, there's the Oh (Bombay) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hh_antigen_system) blood type. Lastly, there are thirty more blood group factor identifiers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_blood_group_systems#Blood_group_systems).

I'm not going to bother with the math, but I think that comes out to be something on the order of a few hundred million different combinations of blood type factors.

So... could it be possible that someone may have antibodies in their blood, a blood type factor (known or unknown) that grants immunity? Given the complexity of human blood, sure. I'll buy that for a Dollar.

[Unit]

I thought I might have a deeper look into this... I am of the train of thought that transfusions from specific people just might confer at least slow turner status, if not actual immunity. Given that transfusions are already used for the treatment of many conditions, such as the lack of certain antibodies, it seemed plausible.
Maybe, just maybe I thought there could be a rare blood factor that may contribute to this. I already know there is more to blood typing than just the letter and +/- as in addition to my ABO type and Rh type, I also know my RhD type. (A subset of Rh)

So, I looked up Human blood group systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_blood_group_systems) for some insight... F*ck, what a can of worms this turned out to be.

Blood typing and Human blood factors are a mire of complex sub types. First, the ABO blood group system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABO_blood_group_system) yields part of the blood type scheme that everyone is familiar with: A, B, AB and O. Then there is the Rhesus or Rh factor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rh_blood_group_system), that is identified with the +/-, the other part we are familiar with. Then there's RhD factor I mentioned above. Then I found out that in ABO, there are the A1, A2, A1B and A2B subtypes, four of the more "common" of the more than 200 minor blood groups. Then, there's the Oh (Bombay) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hh_antigen_system) blood type. Lastly, there are thirty more blood group factor identifiers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_blood_group_systems#Blood_group_systems).

I'm not going to bother with the math, but I think that comes out to be something on the order of a few hundred million different combinations of blood type factors.

So... could it be possible that someone may have antibodies in their blood, a blood type factor (known or unknown) that grants immunity? Given the complexity of human blood, sure. I'll buy that for a Dollar.


As always, nice research!!

I don't believe we will find a cure for the outbreak; our only chance I think is to eliminate all current carriers or let them starve out or something and then prevent re-introduction. But I do think there may be something in the blood to form an immunity or may be what is causing the 'slow-turners'

[Gooer]

They wouldn't have to relinquish it really. CJ is not in a position physically to stop anyone from doing anything, all she has is a mental edge over people. If she loses that or it becomes insignificant in the face of other mistakes, she has nothing left. For michael it is kinda the same boat. We saw what happened with Burt in the tower, once nobody wanted to follow Michael anymore he really didn't have anything over them. You are only a leader if there are people willing to follow you. If Puck, Muldoon and Robbins decide not to follow Michael anymore then honestly what can he do? He has nothing on them.

Perhaps not so much a change in leadership, more of a collapse in leadership is a more appropriate way of saying it.




Maybe it is not intentional before hand on who turns and gets eaten. Perhaps they sink their teeth in, if it tastes good they keep eating, if not they move on to the next one? I don't know just spitballing some ideas here

Once again, I have to agree. You thought about it better than i did. And i think it does have something to do with blood types. Hopefully, all the answers will be revealed when this (unfortunately) ends...

[Alizée]

I was talking about that with Liam in the VIP room. It seems like no matter what she says or does, as long as she shows any opposition to Michael or other established characters, she will be hated.

I was actually pleasantly surprised by her this chapter. I'm a die-hard Michael fan but I love how she defended herself when he accused her of not caring. Like her as a person or not, I easily respect her as a leader. Especially in the position she's in right now. She's doing well!
I was so heartbroken by this instalment and even more depressed that it's going to be two weeks for the next one. I also couldn't stop wondering what Burt and Riley are up to (probably planning a nice Christmas dinner with Scratch) and what will happen to Tanya.
Speaking of Tanya, can someone please explain the significance of her having to cut her hair? I remember that she got it caught on something in a previous chapter but it's being brought up in a "no no" kind of way. What am I missing?

[Gooer]

I was actually pleasantly surprised by her this chapter. I'm a die-hard Michael fan but I love how she defended herself when he accused her of not caring. Like her as a person or not, I easily respect her as a leader. Especially in the position she's in right now. She's doing well!
I was so heartbroken by this instalment and even more depressed that it's going to be two weeks for the next one. I also couldn't stop wondering what Burt and Riley are up to (probably planning a nice Christmas dinner with Scratch) and what will happen to Tanya.
Speaking of Tanya, can someone please explain the significance of her having to cut her hair? I remember that she got it caught on something in a previous chapter but it's being brought up in a "no no" kind of way. What am I missing?

She cut it so no one would question why she had a random chunk of hair missing, so she could hide the fact that she went to Inglewood without permission, as she was not supposed to go there.

[LiamKerrington]

- I think CJ's care and emotional response about the colony was fake. I think she is a manipulator and she was using random facts she had documented in her files to elicit a response and get people on her side. That being said, I also don't think what happened to Glen, Jay and Datu is at all her fault.

Normally she manipulates people when shit hits the fan (look at that, I can do it normally) or when things are at stake. This time, though, there was nothing like that. So in my humble opinion I would buy her seriousness about this.


- Pegs will become CJ's new head of PR for the Colony to keep people from ousting CJ or running off and leaving her holding the crutches alone.

I don't see any necessity for this.

[
- Even King Datu the Resourceful will not be able to get the water pump working. We are already moving towards running out of supplies in the Colony and we need something to force the story forward. If we have plenty of food growing and now milk and a way to get meat through animal reproduction, we are getting might comfortable... we need something to drive this story towards the end in the last 8 chapters.

Agreed.


- I don't think Randy had anything to do with the attack, but I do think that the attack on the pump was orchestrated. I am leaning towards a combination of depriving the colony of water and possibly of supplying water to the biters.
Part one: Yes, I think so, too, 'cause normally Randy is being mentioned with specific descriptions; but this time there was nothing like that.
Part two: I tend do agree, but I am not certain.


- I am not 100% sold on it yet, but I think there could be something to the blood type theory as to who gets turned and who gets eaten and who are the slow turners etc. Maybe some people are tastier than others and it has to do with their blood type. Maybe some people are more susceptible to turning based on blood type. Not sure yet.
Me, too. There must be a reason why turning works different on people. And except for blood or more generally spoken genetical reasons I don't see a solid ground how else this variety may be explained.


- I agree Puck is getting fed up with Michael. The newlywed stage is fading. Michael is starting to pile up with mistakes in their eyes. I can see some changes in management comeing across the board (with CJ in the colony and with Michael and the soldiers). Perhaps that is part of the Ch title too? The storm coming for the different divisions within our group of survivors? Perhaps we get a glimpse of Scratch in this ch too and we see that her leadership is failing too and the remaining band of mallers are looking to replace her?

Yesterday I listened to the latest WA Fancast. And in that episode they talked a lot about Michael loosing control over himself. And that made me think: While Michael was kind of constructed as "the" or at least "a" hero during the season #1 through #3, he gets deconstructed since the beginning of season #4. While season #3 ended with him telling his mates and the audience that there would be a u-turn in strategy, which in return raised the expectations that the fight would be brought onto the doorsteps of them zeehs, he was reduced and limited right from the beginning of this season - only a functional role within the Colony, not a leader at all, no loyalty in front of CJ by simply ignoring her or Pegs's calls, frenzy-maniac action with Randy, this *tilt* with CJ in front of the majority of the named characters on this show, and finally letting down Victor for whatever unknown reason ... This is strange. So yes, I agree with you to a certain degree.


And I am sorry for delays in the reptrivia quizzes too, I'll get some set up tonight or tomorrow so check back and test your skills!!! :cool:
No worries, mate. Your quizzes are awesome. If there are delays, there are delays. No reason to rush things.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Grognaurd]

I was actually pleasantly surprised by her this chapter. I'm a die-hard Michael fan but I love how she defended herself when he accused her of not caring. Like her as a person or not, I easily respect her as a leader. Especially in the position she's in right now. She's doing well!


I loved CJ's composure. She gets manhandled by Michael and has the presence to not escalate and in fact defuses the situation. I see a lot of myself in Michael, but that scene with CJ, where there is a tinge of disgust in her voice, because she isn't Mr Spock and cannot hide it all is classic me.

Michael would fly off the handle... "Don't you touch me, don't you fuckin touch me..." and things would have gone from bad to worse.

[tonyhind86]

I'm so far behind on this thread its making my head spin trying to keep up! :D

[Gooer]

Ugh, mixed emotions. In my opinion, just because you know stuff about someone, doesn't mean you care about them. I know tons of people that i hate, but i still know stuff about them. And with Michael, it's sort of the opposite, he used to care about them, despite not getting to know everybody, but since the start of the hunt for the zombies, he has been too absorbed by it, making it his one priority, or at least that's what we've been shown.

[Unit]

Ugh, mixed emotions. In my opinion, just because you know stuff about someone, doesn't mean you care about them. I know tons of people that i hate, but i still know stuff about them. And with Michael, it's sort of the opposite, he used to care about them, despite not getting to know everybody, but since the start of the hunt for the zombies, he has been too absorbed by it, making it his one priority, or at least that's what we've been shown.

This is the vibe I get from that interaction too. CJ may know things because she lives in the Colony with them but knowing random facts doesn't exactly translate to caring about them. My wife is a huge fan of tennis so I know several things about Nadal, and Federer, and Rodick but I couldn't care less if they all got crabs :p

I think Michael still cares about his OG tower crew, but I am not sure how much he knows or cares about the others either. In that area I think CJ was right.

[Witch_Doctor]

Normally she manipulates people when shit hits the fan (look at that, I can do it normally) or when things are at stake. This time, though, there was nothing like that. So in my humble opinion I would buy her seriousness about this.
Best wishes!
Liam

Reminds me of Scratch after Durai's Look at Us Now speech. We've seen her spin things at the drop of a hat, like when she was arguing with Saul over whether or not to risk going to the Colony. However, I agree. I feel that she is sincere. She sounds like she is really taking people's well being to heart.

[Gooer]

This is the vibe I get from that interaction too. CJ may know things because she lives in the Colony with them but knowing random facts doesn't exactly translate to caring about them. My wife is a huge fan of tennis so I know several things about Nadal, and Federer, and Rodick but I couldn't care less if they all got crabs :p

I think Michael still cares about his OG tower crew, but I am not sure how much he knows or cares about the others either. In that area I think CJ was right.

Michael cares about his old friends (aka the old tower group), but i agree, i'm not sure how much he does care about the rest of the colony. I think im the same..... rather let everyone from the tower live, not that bothered by the people we haven't been listening to the past 4 years.. (besides Victor and the colony exiles).

P.S. What happened to Pete?

P.P.S
And I am sorry for delays in the reptrivia quizzes too, I'll get some set up tonight or tomorrow so check back and test your skills!!! :cool:

I applied to the quizmasters group, hopefully i can give a helping hand with the quizzes.....

[Witch_Doctor]

Hmmm, so Datu was bitten on the lower neck. Tanya says that's where the zombies typically bite their victims. Now, if they are attacking humans for food then they must kill them before they turn, therefore, like natural predators, they bite in places that will likely kill quickly. Clamping the neck can make a prey pass out, biting the neck can make the prey bleed out. If the human prey is bleeding out, then perhaps most of the infecting agent is not potent enough to enter the body against the spewing blood.

I also wonder if Tanya or Saul will test their zombie invisibly by approaching zombies to see if they are attacked.

[LiamKerrington]

Questions and more comments:

1)
In #41-1 we saw most of the named characters at the same location - gathered around Datu and his fate. Is this a summary or foreshadowing of the team that will take the fight to them zombies? In other words: Will any other named character or character with a certain story, who was not at the windmill, die sooner than later?

2)
During the last days I thought about my personal "relation" to Michael and CJ. And I happened to realize that Michael has been established as one of the, if not the major "hero" or character of identification; this is something we did not have with CJ for a very long time. The first time we met her she was part of Saul's and Victor's story; with the Kalani-backstory she was just another role Kalani was writting about; later the relation between Saul, Victor, and CJ became more serious, but still she was part of their telling; and this did not even change with season #4, in which CJ - again - was part of the storytelling of other main characters. Maybe I missed one episode or scene which was told from her perspective; but if there is or was such a single event, this is "small" compared with what we know from any other major character on the show. And I think that is one of the many reasons why some of us - at least me - have trouble "accepting" her as a character to identify with and to feel sympathy for. Actually, I only have two recollections of situations in which I felt real sympathy for her - when she had her melee with Scratch, 'cause that was just plain awesome, and when she was treated like shit by tilting scumbag Michael; but at any other time I happened to notice her as being just one of those people you meet and talk about ... Will this change?

3)
The more I think of it the more I am convinced that R2Da2 is one of the, if not THE 'richest' character on this show. He was through up and downs like really no one else; he had his moments of comic relief as much as of pure heroism, tragedy, importance and what now; if it was not for him, many things of the story simply wouldn't have worked in any way. I really have trouble realizing anyone else aside R2Da2 having this kind of roller coaster on this show (Saul maybe). Yes, sure: Everyone on this show had his or her tragic moments, dark fates, moments of relaxation or relief; but who else has such a vivid and colorful "vitae" within the WA-storyline like R2Da2 has? R2Da2's personality is probably one of the most "human" compared with anyone else, 'cause he vividly expressed anxiety, anger, sorrow, happiness, cynicism, sarcasm, helpfulness, etc. like very few other (are there any at all?). Up until now I have the impression that most other characters (exception: Victor) had his or her specific role and task to fulfill, which was much more focussed than what we see with R2Da2 - he was the maintenance-guy as much as the chief-engineer beginning with the generator in the tower, fixing helicopters several times as well as gates, and finally creating 'new technologies'; but aside from that he also was the tragic hero in the Arena with a very strange love-interest story upon which his 'quasi'-father-hood for Hope was established, and for her he cared a lot. Besides these things there are only very few characters available of which we know details of their past; mostly things are reduced to "I was in the miliatry" or "I was a lawyer", but that was that; R2Da2 comes from the Philipines, worked as the service craft of the Tower in order to send money to his family in the Philipines, did evening-classes to become more professional, seemed to socialize a lot with the inhabitants of the Tower, was a very poor car-driver ... Really - up until now in my eyes R2Da2 is one of the, if not the one character on the show with the most detailed personality. I don't say that this is not true for any other character; but what I say is that we as the audience know more about him than about most other characters on the show. And that, actually, makes him "the ressourceful"; this title - I guess established by Nikvoodoo (not certain about it) - was given to him when he seemed to be able to work on absolutely any technological issue; but this title is especially true for his personality or him as a (fictitious) person.

And that is why his announced death (will this really happen) makes it even harder to stomach. If this really happens, the WA-verse not only looses one of the key characters within the story, but one of the richest and most human characters at all. That is why I 'enjoyed' it very much that most other named characters were around and cared about his situation - each and everyone in his or her own way. This is a perfect mirror image of what R2Da2 actually means to anyone. I really hope that he "survives" as much as Saul and Tanya do it; but with the certainty Tanya mentioned his upcoming death within the coming few days it does not seem likely to happen. Really - a real loss. The gap cannot be filled in easily; and currently I do not see it.

4)
Speaking of which:
What are the characteristics for the various "stages of infection"? Tanya mentions something about "stage 1" about R2Da2's situation. Any ideas how you would characterize those stages? And would there be any difference from z-type to z-type?

Best wishes!
Liam

[zombiesurvivor]

Will datu turn or will he be alright

[scbubba]

Questions and more comments:

The more I think of it the more I am convinced that R2Da2 is one of the, if not THE 'richest' character on this show. He was through up and downs like really no one else; he had his moments of comic relief as much as of pure heroism, tragedy, importance and what now; if it was not for him, many things of the story simply wouldn't have worked in any way. I really have trouble realizing anyone else aside R2Da2 having this kind of roller coaster on this show (Saul maybe). Yes, sure: Everyone on this show had his or her tragic moments, dark fates, moments of relaxation or relief; but who else has such a vivid and colorful "vitae" within the WA-storyline like R2Da2 has? R2Da2's personality is probably one of the most "human" compared with anyone else, 'cause he vividly expressed anxiety, anger, sorrow, happiness, cynicism, sarcasm, helpfulness, etc. like very few other (are there any at all?). Up until now I have the impression that most other characters (exception: Victor) had his or her specific role and task to fulfill, which was much more focussed than what we see with R2Da2 - he was the maintenance-guy as much as the chief-engineer beginning with the generator in the tower, fixing helicopters several times as well as gates, and finally creating 'new technologies'; but aside from that he also was the tragic hero in the Arena with a very strange love-interest story upon which his 'quasi'-father-hood for Hope was established, and for her he cared a lot. Besides these things there are only very few characters available of which we know details of their past; mostly things are reduced to "I was in the miliatry" or "I was a lawyer", but that was that; R2Da2 comes from the Philipines, worked as the service craft of the Tower in order to send money to his family in the Philipines, did evening-classes to become more professional, seemed to socialize a lot with the inhabitants of the Tower, was a very poor car-driver ... Really - up until now in my eyes R2Da2 is one of the, if not the one character on the show with the most detailed personality. I don't say that this is not true for any other character; but what I say is that we as the audience know more about him than about most other characters on the show. And that, actually, makes him "the ressourceful"; this title - I guess established by Nikvoodoo (not certain about it) - was given to him when he seemed to be able to work on absolutely any technological issue; but this title is especially true for his personality or him as a (fictitious) person.

And that is why his announced death (will this really happen) makes it even harder to stomach. If this really happens, the WA-verse not only looses one of the key characters within the story, but one of the richest and most human characters at all. That is why I 'enjoyed' it very much that most other named characters were around and cared about his situation - each and everyone in his or her own way. This is a perfect mirror image of what R2Da2 actually means to anyone. I really hope that he "survives" as much as Saul and Tanya do it; but with the certainty Tanya mentioned his upcoming death within the coming few days it does not seem likely to happen. Really - a real loss. The gap cannot be filled in easily; and currently I do not see it.

Best wishes!
Liam
Damn Liam! Very nice post on Datu's character arc. I think my eyeballs almost started sweating somewhere in the reading of this and thinking of poor Datu at the end of 41-1... <sniff>

[Gooer]

Didn't Tanya say there were 4 stages of turning, or am i making that up....?

[Gnex]

I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this yet or not........ and this could just be my underlying hate for CJ............. But did anyone else find it strange that the only people that CJ "knew" anything about were 2 dead guys???? They aren't alive anymore to confirm or deny her story...... How do we know that entire speech wasn't just a made up tug on your heartstrings to get what I want story???

[Grognaurd]

I think Datu will be OK. Sure, Tanya is saying he is going to die, but what would you expect her to say? She, Saul and Victor are the only ones that know about the super slow turn. Her public position is that they were not infected. If the heat gets really hot on Datu, will she let others know about her and Saul?

A few chapters back we were discussin the fracture of the Dunbar /Colony alliance. That may still happen. Now, we have another fissure, infected vs non infected. How does that play out? Michael may lose his soldiers and be forced to work with Victor. Jut how many Cylons, I mean slow turners are out there? There will be finger pointing and a desire to test everyone. How does that further fracture everything? It is really not paranoia if it "turns" out people ARE out to get you.

Last, Let's assume that this blood test is much more rare than a blood glucose test? How many tests does Tanya have left? TEOTWAWKI is all about dwindling resources. This test may very well have a limited number of doses, like the high end antibiotics that Saul got in Seaon 2. Or, like Riley discussed in Season one, expiration dates on the food. Do people trust the results given from a test that is past the expiration date? In a court of law, they would be inadmissible, but what about the court of public opinion? Seems to me that even though it is a science fact based test, charismatic leadership will be the deciding factor.

[nikvoodoo]

I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this yet or not........ and this could just be my underlying hate for CJ............. But did anyone else find it strange that the only people that CJ "knew" anything about were 2 dead guys???? They aren't alive anymore to confirm or deny her story...... How do we know that entire speech wasn't just a made up tug on your heartstrings to get what I want story???

Seems like something that CJ, the collector of all things intel, would have done. Besides, Glenn seems like the type of guy who would wax a yarn for you that would take all day and night if you gave him the chance. I don't doubt CJs claims to the intimate knowledge she had for either guy.

The one thing I did take from this episode CJ related is Michael really thought it would be a good plan to manhandle a cripple. Seems to me like that's not the greatest plan ever.

[7oddisdead]

Seems like something that CJ, the collector of all things intel, would have done. Besides, Glenn seems like the type of guy who would wax a yarn for you that would take all day and night if you gave him the chance. I don't doubt CJs claims to the intimate knowledge she had for either guy.

The one thing I did take from this episode CJ related is Michael really thought it would be a good plan to manhandle a cripple. Seems to me like that's not the greatest plan ever.

ah, I remember the first time I violently shook a pirate. I think he said "arrgh, watch the peg-leg matey" ....now that I think about it. That didn't happen at all.

[scbubba]

Seems like something that CJ, the collector of all things intel, would have done. Besides, Glenn seems like the type of guy who would wax a yarn for you that would take all day and night if you gave him the chance. I don't doubt CJs claims to the intimate knowledge she had for either guy.

The one thing I did take from this episode CJ related is Michael really thought it would be a good plan to manhandle a cripple. Seems to me like that's not the greatest plan ever.

I think we are seeing Michael without a plan at all. He's simply reacting to things around him and barely thinking things through. The main reason that Puck is so pissed at him in 41-1, IMO, is that he's been looking up to Michael and the events of the past couple of days (in story time) have shaken that for Puck. He was trusting in and depending on Michael and all of a sudden Mikey's playing fast and loose with good sense and judgement.

I'm seeing CJ and Michael becoming more and more polar opposites of each other. Both have strengths in leadership and management. But their strengths are being pushed out to the extremes and any strength over used or taken to an extreme is likely to become a weakness.

Things are shifting. The initial goals, heroes, villains, problems, etc in the beginning aren't necessarily the same now.

Damn good storytelling, Kc. A fine job.

[Unit]

3)
The more I think of it the more I am convinced that R2Da2 is one of the, if not THE 'richest' character on this show. He was through up and downs like really no one else; he had his moments of comic relief as much as of pure heroism, tragedy, importance and what now; if it was not for him, many things of the story simply wouldn't have worked in any way. I really have trouble realizing anyone else aside R2Da2 having this kind of roller coaster on this show (Saul maybe). Yes, sure: Everyone on this show had his or her tragic moments, dark fates, moments of relaxation or relief; but who else has such a vivid and colorful "vitae" within the WA-storyline like R2Da2 has? R2Da2's personality is probably one of the most "human" compared with anyone else, 'cause he vividly expressed anxiety, anger, sorrow, happiness, cynicism, sarcasm, helpfulness, etc. like very few other (are there any at all?). Up until now I have the impression that most other characters (exception: Victor) had his or her specific role and task to fulfill, which was much more focussed than what we see with R2Da2 - he was the maintenance-guy as much as the chief-engineer beginning with the generator in the tower, fixing helicopters several times as well as gates, and finally creating 'new technologies'; but aside from that he also was the tragic hero in the Arena with a very strange love-interest story upon which his 'quasi'-father-hood for Hope was established, and for her he cared a lot. Besides these things there are only very few characters available of which we know details of their past; mostly things are reduced to "I was in the miliatry" or "I was a lawyer", but that was that; R2Da2 comes from the Philipines, worked as the service craft of the Tower in order to send money to his family in the Philipines, did evening-classes to become more professional, seemed to socialize a lot with the inhabitants of the Tower, was a very poor car-driver ... Really - up until now in my eyes R2Da2 is one of the, if not the one character on the show with the most detailed personality. I don't say that this is not true for any other character; but what I say is that we as the audience know more about him than about most other characters on the show. And that, actually, makes him "the ressourceful"; this title - I guess established by Nikvoodoo (not certain about it) - was given to him when he seemed to be able to work on absolutely any technological issue; but this title is especially true for his personality or him as a (fictitious) person.

And that is why his announced death (will this really happen) makes it even harder to stomach. If this really happens, the WA-verse not only looses one of the key characters within the story, but one of the richest and most human characters at all. That is why I 'enjoyed' it very much that most other named characters were around and cared about his situation - each and everyone in his or her own way. This is a perfect mirror image of what R2Da2 actually means to anyone. I really hope that he "survives" as much as Saul and Tanya do it; but with the certainty Tanya mentioned his upcoming death within the coming few days it does not seem likely to happen. Really - a real loss. The gap cannot be filled in easily; and currently I do not see it.

Best wishes!
Liam

I love this analysis of Datu. He is absolutely one of the most relatable and loved characters on the show. He is honest and open with his past and story and we all know with his emotions :) Where others like to keep secrets Datu likes to lay it out on the line.

[Gnex]

ah, I remember the first time I violently shook a pirate. I think he said "arrgh, watch the peg-leg matey" ....now that I think about it. That didn't happen at all.

So since CJ is using Pegs as a crutch against Michael..... Would we be safe to assume that she is her "Peg" Leg??!?! :zombiepoke:

[LiamKerrington]

Damn Liam! Very nice post on Datu's character arc. I think my eyeballs almost started sweating somewhere in the reading of this and thinking of poor Datu at the end of 41-1... <sniff>

I am sorry. This was not my intention.


I think Datu will be OK. Sure, Tanya is saying he is going to die, but what would you expect her to say? She, Saul and Victor are the only ones that know about the super slow turn. Her public position is that they were not infected. If the heat gets really hot on Datu, will she let others know about her and Saul?

A very good point and a very good question.


A few chapters back we were discussin the fracture of the Dunbar /Colony alliance. That may still happen. Now, we have another fissure, infected vs non infected. How does that play out? Michael may lose his soldiers and be forced to work with Victor. Jut how many Cylons, I mean slow turners are out there? There will be finger pointing and a desire to test everyone. How does that further fracture everything? It is really not paranoia if it "turns" out people ARE out to get you.

Funny - before I read your posting I had started to draw parallels between WA and the new BSG myself ...


The one thing I did take from this episode CJ related is Michael really thought it would be a good plan to manhandle a cripple. Seems to me like that's not the greatest plan ever.

That was humiliating. I still don'T get it. If it comes to warm and friendly or loving feeling Michael is socially inapt, normally he is very much focussed on his tasks, but if things start to piss him he becomes a real pain in the ass - especially an unreliable hotshot. Reminds me of him characterizing Saul in the beginning of WA ... What has happened with Michael? Or has he finally started to reveal his "bad" sides which were always there?

[Grognaurd]

In another thread, I posted that biting people and eating human flesh is a major loss of impulse control. Sound like someone else we know? Michael? Very very impulsive recently. Is he losing control? Is he further down the turning process?

I am just asking the question. Not the story that I want to hear, but it does make me wonder...

[Gooer]

in another thread, i posted that biting people and eating human flesh is a major loss of impulse control. Sound like someone else we know? Michael? Very very impulsive recently. Is he losing control? Is he further down the turning process?

I am just asking the question. Not the story that i want to hear, but it does make me wonder...

more proof he's guna turn!

[tKm]

I also wonder if Tanya or Saul will test their zombie invisibly by approaching zombies to see if they are attacked.

Well I've wondered about this as well. In what stage would "invisibility" occur? If Saul really is infected, then he has been since the Tommy incident. I've been trying to think about specific scenes where a zombie goes explicitly after Saul, instead of attacking the group that Saul is in, but I haven't been able to find one. The LAX scene after Burt tests his IED is the closest we come to an ideal situation where we would see any "invisibility", but the zombie could have just been going after Burt.

I guess what I'm wondering is the following.

1 - Are Saul, Tanya, and now Datu REALLY infected? There isn't a definitive answer yet.
2 - If they are infected, what makes them different? What makes them turn more slowly?
3- The gas and cracks in Englewood (Inglewood? Sorry, I'm a bit new here) are still a huge mystery. What is it about the air there? Could Datu, being infected, breathe there? Or are both Tanya and Saul infected in a different way that allows them to breathe the air. There was NOTHING at ground zero the first time, but the second time the Little Ones didn't seem to mind. If they could test the gas on Datu to see if his body would reject it, wouldn't that give them helpful information about what is going on with Tanya and Saul?

I think they should see if Datu can deal with the air at ground zero, and as much as I love the character, I'm thinking he would make a valuable...test subject. Which sounds horribly wrong, but I want answers!

[Gooer]

The thing about Inglewood and Ground Zero, neither human nor zombie could go there while the place was hazed up, which leads me to wonder, how can Tanya and Saul be ok, when everything else can't go near that place? The one exception we've had is #7 being in Ground Zero, but that was when the haze was gone. Maybe somethings going to happen it to while its been inside of there, when the haze returned?

[tKm]

Doesn't #7 stay there even when the gas returns? Can the special ones go there?

Edit: it's late and I don't think I read your last post very well. This brings up the question of what Tanya and Saul are turning into, if anything

[Gooer]

Doesn't #7 stay there even when the gas returns? Can the special ones go there?

Edit: it's late and I don't think I read your last post very well. This brings up the question of what Tanya and Saul are turning into, if anything

It does stay there, but that's after it was hit by the oxygen tank, a short time after the haze returned. We don't know what happens to it; maybe the cause for it getting even bigger than usually is BECAUSE of the haze, or because of the growth hormones they might be getting injected with, but for now, we don't know....

[COsurvivor]

has anyone ever thought that INK has done something to make sure the newer dead heads do not transform ppl the same way as he was?

[LiamKerrington]

Hello there,


has anyone ever thought that INK has done something to make sure the newer dead heads do not transform ppl the same way as he was?

no, I haven't thought about this - yet. And I need to raise this question: How would a zeeh recognize a victim to become "equal" or "similar" to Ink? Does high knowledge and/or IQ 'smell' or have a specific "scent" to it?
I think: "No.", but I may be wrong. Maybe a strong mind/ well developd brain-activities might spill specific hormons recognizable for zeehs; but I have some doubts.

The "only" or "more likely" situation would be that Ink has ordered his zeehs to prevent any more turning because even them zeehs are running low on food; and any other mouth to feed would be a test for them zeehs' resources. And something like "R2Da2" would happen accidentally, at least less likely on purpose - especially if we think of zeehs being on the lookout for food.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Footbutt]

In another thread, I posted that biting people and eating human flesh is a major loss of impulse control. Sound like someone else we know? Michael? Very very impulsive recently. Is he losing control? Is he further down the turning process?

I am just asking the question. Not the story that I want to hear, but it does make me wonder...


"I write this, not really for anyone to read, but... for my own sanity."

[Grognaurd]

There is another aspect of this episode I find perplexing

At the 9:00 minute mark, Puck says I think someone was in the back seat.... No way they are turning....

Strange.

We hear Glenn scream when he is attacked in the previous chapter. That means there is still a lot of Glenn left. So, do the biters continue to rip Glenn up despite the threat posd by the living Jay and Datu... I do not think so.

The attack continues and Jay is wounded. Datu survives the attack and it seems something runs away.

Time break...

Does Jay or another biter chow down on Glenn while Datu blacks out or something? Datu makes a radio call, Jay rises and is killed by Datu.

Time break...

Did something come back and attack Glenn's corpse?

Was it Datu? Does he have a cognitive break and acts like a biter 1.0, but recover his humanity? I do not know, but since this is an audio drama, things can hide in plain sight.

I find Puck's description of Glenn a little more extreme than I would have anticipated. Is it nothing or something that is important later in the story?

[Footbutt]

i interpreted "No way are they turning" as "Nothing left of him to turn" kind of thing.

in Chapter 1 we hear how a group was 'taking big chunks' of that honker apart in seconds.

i'm leaning towards Glenn and Jay's death as 'final' and not much mystery to it. Sure, a biter could have slipped away in the end, but i'm not sure it means much, other than Datu was bit and will (possibly) soon turn.

[Grognaurd]

Understood, but in chapter 1, there is no other threat. If Michael got out of his car and started shooting at them, would they continue what they were doing or would they address the new threat?

How fast can you eat a 1/4 pounder hamburger? Glenn is composed of a lot of those. Even a pound of flesh takes a while to eat and would that be enough for Puck to say, I think there was someone in the back seat and not leaving enough to turn?

Is Glenn's corpse there, but missing some chunks? Was Glenn gutted and the musculature and skeleton removed in a classic hunter move? Kill the deer, gut it, drag the "good stuff" back to huntin' camp...

I do not know.

[tonyhind86]

But did they eat him, or just tear him to shreds?

[pmchawk]

Interesting fact. There is a pheromone in pen ink that mimics the pheromone that termites follow (follow the leader).

[7oddisdead]

Interesting fact. There is a pheromone in pen ink that mimics the pheromone that termites follow (follow the leader).

um.....what?

for serious?
*yes, for serious. Its only certain types of ink, and it only triggers the "trail" instinct....but very interesting non the less! Nice one chawk! ;)

[Storm]

Interesting fact. There is a pheromone in pen ink that mimics the pheromone that termites follow (follow the leader).

Doesn't this fit kinda nicely with that ant theory/thought/thingie some of you Guys are having fun with??
EDIT: I just found this. (http://www.termite-control.com/methods/approaches/termites-pheromones-for-control/) Seems like it's the inexpensive pens that Works... Makes sense for Cohen to have a ton of those rather than a ton of Mont Blancs...

[Gnex]

But did they eat him, or just tear him to shreds?

I am voting torn to shreds. Specially if it was the Little One that got him........ Jump into the back of the vehicle, a couple quick swipes, no more Glenn......

[Gnex]

So Saul potentially got infected by blood from a gun shot wound right?
And Tanya potentially from a bite that just didn’t go deep?

Maybe Datu is going to be the link that proves even a Deep/Full wound won’t turn you immediately if you have the right amount of X already inside you……..

Now the question is what is X????? O_o

[poniesandzombies]

This story is really starting to make me a jaded person. I just re listened to this episode and arg!! Carl is totally getting on my nerves and I am sure he is just trying to be careful. Every time he freaks out about a vehicle I am like "shut up Carrrll" and the voice in my head sounds like annoyed Robins. And I don't have any faith that CJ really cares about the people - she just uses the intel for her advantage. I still can't stand Pegs... And she is like the savior of all now and I still... Well just really really hate her character....and Michael... I am starting to think he and Pegs deserve each other.. And that is not said in a nice fashion. I am a really nice person... I am ... But this amazing work of fiction is definitely challenging that!!!!

[Gooer]

There is another aspect of this episode I find perplexing

At the 9:00 minute mark, Puck says I think someone was in the back seat.... No way they are turning....

Strange.

We hear Glenn scream when he is attacked in the previous chapter. That means there is still a lot of Glenn left. So, do the biters continue to rip Glenn up despite the threat posd by the living Jay and Datu... I do not think so.

The attack continues and Jay is wounded. Datu survives the attack and it seems something runs away.

Time break...

Does Jay or another biter chow down on Glenn while Datu blacks out or something? Datu makes a radio call, Jay rises and is killed by Datu.

Time break...

Did something come back and attack Glenn's corpse?

Was it Datu? Does he have a cognitive break and acts like a biter 1.0, but recover his humanity? I do not know, but since this is an audio drama, things can hide in plain sight.

I find Puck's description of Glenn a little more extreme than I would have anticipated. Is it nothing or something that is important later in the story?

I think he screams from the initial attack, but they continue to bite him, even tearing him apart. That's what i got from listening to 40-3.

[LiamKerrington]

Thesis:

Michael is turning from a survivor acting on behalf of others into an monomaniac following his personal obsession.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Footbutt]

Thesis:

Michael is turning from a survivor acting on behalf of others into an monomaniac following his personal obsession.

Best wishes!
Liam

yeah, it's funny how at the beginning of Season 3 he says: "I care more about you guys than I did my soldiers" or something like that. Now he's becoming a Homles/House-type... and it adds so much to story potential!

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Thesis:

Michael is turning from a survivor acting on behalf of others into an monomaniac following his personal obsession.

Best wishes!
Liam

Hey, that is what I am thinking of CJ motivations. :)

[Unit]

I was going to post this in the observations upon re listening area but since we are already talking about it here...

I am curious if Michael just likes to stick to what he is used to or what. When the series first begins he seems to have little to no trust for the civilians. He mentions multiple times that they are not trained soldiers as a way to say they probably can't handle certain situations. As time goes on he grows attached to them to the point that he trusts them more than his soldiers. When he arrives at Ft. Irwin he doesn't want to return to being a soldier again. Once he is 'forced' to he falls back in line and now is back to trusting his soldiers again over all others.

So does he just get comfortable with the team he is with and resist change? Has it always been trusting soldiers and being in the tower side by side with civilians was just a detour of necessity? Hard to say really but it is interesting the flip flopping back and forth he does.

[Grognaurd]

Well, I am glad we got foreshadowing early on in this season about what an idiot that he was for the first few months back. I do not like "this" Michael. I thought he had grown more than this.

[Unit]

Do you think Michael is acting out of frustration from not catching Randy or Ink or the hive yet? Or just desperation for the whole current situation? Or something else entirely? I get what happened with CJ, though completely uncalled for that is just an angry emotional response and a need to have someone to blame. But some of the other things like how he left Puck to chase Randy, that is harder to explain.

One :tinfoil: theory I just thought about. What if Randy saved Michael somehow at the waterworks but got bit/scratched in the process; he asks Michael to shoot him so he doesn't turn into a zed but Michael can't stomach to shoot his savior (similar to how he won't shoot Datu now even though the other soldiers want to). Randy turns and Michael feels guilty that he let him turn into a zombie and others have died because he couldn't pull the trigger before. Now he is trying to right his own wrong, but he can't tell anyone because then people would blame him for some of what is happening. And we know Michael doesn't like to take blame (jambalaya MRE wrapper anyone? Didn't read Carl's report about little ones turning people into other little ones?)

[poniesandzombies]

Do you think Michael is acting out of frustration from not catching Randy or Ink or the hive yet? Or just desperation for the whole current situation? Or something else entirely? I get what happened with CJ, though completely uncalled for that is just an angry emotional response and a need to have someone to blame. But some of the other things like how he left Puck to chase Randy, that is harder to explain.

One :tinfoil: theory I just thought about. What if Randy saved Michael somehow at the waterworks but got bit/scratched in the process; he asks Michael to shoot him so he doesn't turn into a zed but Michael can't stomach to shoot his savior (similar to how he won't shoot Datu now even though the other soldiers want to). Randy turns and Michael feels guilty that he let him turn into a zombie and others have died because he couldn't pull the trigger before. Now he is trying to right his own wrong, but he can't tell anyone because then people would blame him for some of what is happening. And we know Michael doesn't like to take blame (jambalaya MRE wrapper anyone? Didn't read Carl's report about little ones turning people into other little ones?)

That is a really good theory!!!!! I like it!!!

[LiamKerrington]

Do you think Michael is acting out of frustration from not catching Randy or Ink or the hive yet? Or just desperation for the whole current situation? Or something else entirely?

I think Michael is kind of frustrated searching for "the" important or "connecting everything" information; he has searched for it now for four months, and still too many things remain a mystery to him. He is an intelligence-soldier; I could guess that he is used to getting more information in a shorter period of time in order to draw pictures and conclusions with the aim to thoroughly plan strategies. He is looking for the needle in the hay; and this is dissatisfying for him. Up until now he actually has nothing to offer, which really qualifies as "the" kind of information to establish an attack-plan against Ink's army.
In addition he seems to be under a certain stress, 'cause he knows that CJ could and maybe will make him stop searching sooner than later, which again raises the level of frustrating.

So things start looking bad for him; and that is maybe the reason he is loosing control ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Storm]

Do you think Michael is acting out of frustration from not catching Randy or Ink or the hive yet? Or just desperation for the whole current situation? Or something else entirely? I get what happened with CJ, though completely uncalled for that is just an angry emotional response and a need to have someone to blame. But some of the other things like how he left Puck to chase Randy, that is harder to explain.

One :tinfoil: theory I just thought about. What if Randy saved Michael somehow at the waterworks but got bit/scratched in the process; he asks Michael to shoot him so he doesn't turn into a zed but Michael can't stomach to shoot his savior (similar to how he won't shoot Datu now even though the other soldiers want to). Randy turns and Michael feels guilty that he let him turn into a zombie and others have died because he couldn't pull the trigger before. Now he is trying to right his own wrong, but he can't tell anyone because then people would blame him for some of what is happening. And we know Michael doesn't like to take blame (jambalaya MRE wrapper anyone? Didn't read Carl's report about little ones turning people into other little ones?)

But why does he sound so mad at poor Randy then?
"Sorry man, I can't kill you... But I promise, I will hunt and hate you the rest of my life. Deal?" :D Maybe Randy tried to drag Michael through a door so he'd be catched by the behemoth as well, asuming that that was what got Randy in the first place. Somehow the door slams closed, and now Michael is pissed because Mr. Techieguy broke his arm...
...I don't know...

[Unit]

But why does he sound so mad at poor Randy then?
"Sorry man, I can't kill you... But I promise, I will hunt and hate you the rest of my life. Deal?" :D Maybe Randy tried to drag Michael through a door so he'd be catched by the behemoth as well, asuming that that was what got Randy in the first place. Somehow the door slams closed, and now Michael is pissed because Mr. Techieguy broke his arm...
...I don't know...

Maybe his anger is at himself and not Randy? He is mad that he didn't do what he should have, or maybe what he promised he would?

[Witch_Doctor]

The idea of Pegs being in a position of command doesn't sit right.....She's more a follower than a leader, but then again, we haven't given her a shot, so maybe she actually is a good leader...? Also, CJ seems to prefer running everything herself, considering (I think) we haven't heard her ask anyone for help. Pegs offered it to her, but she had to persist, since CJ thinks she isn't apparently clever enough...

At the tower, Pegs really had little to do. Can't shoot or cook... Plus a TEOTWAWKI meltdown could have made her vurnerable for the first two seasons. She's an authoritative figure in the Colony as head of the farming. I think she's gotten stronger or is able to show her strong side now that she has skills to back it up.

[Witch_Doctor]

...i don't think the Zeds smelling the way they do (like poo) is anything to speculate...

have to agree with cabbage here. The smell is absolutely something we can speculate on. The smell of the biters could indicate what exactly is going on with them internally. I don't believe ALL of them are pooping their pants.

and good point about the car cabbage. The only thing I can say to refute the idea of bill moving the car himself is biters did capture datu without harming him. Regular biters...now is that the same as moving the car? Starting it, putting it in gear and driving? No...but I can suspend my disbelief that far. At least for the sake of keeping ink un-poop-smelly.

;)

One interesting thing about their smell is that Micheal described it in "The Two Things" as flesh that has been rotting for days.

[Witch_Doctor]

Ugh, mixed emotions. In my opinion, just because you know stuff about someone, doesn't mean you care about them. I know tons of people that i hate, but i still know stuff about them. And with Michael, it's sort of the opposite, he used to care about them, despite not getting to know everybody, but since the start of the hunt for the zombies, he has been too absorbed by it, making it his one priority, or at least that's what we've been shown.

Did sound kind of like a Jimmy Stuart movie.

[Witch_Doctor]

Doesn't #7 stay there even when the gas returns? Can the special ones go there?

Edit: it's late and I don't think I read your last post very well. This brings up the question of what Tanya and Saul are turning into, if anything

Kalani says that CJ's convoy people reported strange creatures coming from there, e.g. Big ones, fast ones...

[Witch_Doctor]

4)
Speaking of which:
What are the characteristics for the various "stages of infection"? Tanya mentions something about "stage 1" about R2Da2's situation. Any ideas how you would characterize those stages? And would there be any difference from z-type to z-type?

Best wishes!
Liam

She just doesn't say what distinguishes one stage from another, other than K-18 levels. BTW, Scbubba and Grognaurd stumbled on something interesting about the stages.

100 Null
200 Normal
300 Stage One: Saul, Tanya, Datu
500 Stage Two
800 Stage Three
1300 Turned

1,2,3,5,8,13..... 1+0=1, 1+1=2, 1+2=3, 2+3=5, 3+5=8, 5+8=13...... Fibonacci Sequence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number).

[Unit]

She just doesn't say what distinguishes one stage from another, other than K-18 levels. BTW, Scbubba and Grognaurd stumbled on something interesting about the stages.

100 Null
200 Normal
300 Stage One: Saul, Tanya, Datu
500 Stage Two
800 Stage Three
1300 Turned

1,2,3,5,8,13..... 1+0=1, 1+1=2, 1+2=3, 2+3=5, 3+5=8, 5+8=13...... Fibonacci Sequence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number).

The fibonacci sequence is cool, good find guys!

I wonder what it is that makes the levels return to normal after the victim has turned? I didn't read the link but there isn't anything the sequence that would return the levels back to normal.

[7oddisdead]

does she say they return to normal?....or they level out at that point? ie; level out at 1300-ish range what could that be. and could we look up anything armchair-scientist-style to lead us in the right direction? the levels going back down to a normal(ish) range don't make much sense to me.

btw....im officially invested in the datu storyline now, thanks o-kc! proving me wrong since '09 (i think, we'll see)

and while im here, and a lil boozed up...what the funk is up with up all the Michael hate? I see absolutely nothing wrong with anything hes done in the last few episodes...but... I have been drinking. simmadownnaow, folks! man has to get us the waterworks story, if ya'll want to string him from the rafters after that...have at it.

blah blah, this post brought to you by Anderson valley bourbon barrel aged stout
todd-out

[Grognaurd]

I certainly do not hate Michael, but he has regressed. Season three was about learning that just because someone ( Kiimmet ) has command authority does not mean they make the best decisions. Yes, what he is doing is important, but he punts and lets CJ run the colony into the ground.

A good leader does distribute authority. I like to move things off my plate to my direct reports. It helps them grow, but you better be DAMN GOOD at follow up and sniffing out incompetence. People hide that shit. It festers and you are left with no options. You have to ask the hard questions and then unbalancing follow up questions.

[Gooer]

Pretty sure Tanya says that they return to normal once the target has fully turned, after awhile.

Also, can anyone explain the relevance of the fibonacci sequence? I don't quite understand...

[Witch_Doctor]

does she say they return to normal?....or they level out at that point? ie; level out at 1300-ish range what could that be. and could we look up anything armchair-scientist-style to lead us in the right direction? the levels going back down to a normal(ish) range don't make much sense to me.



Pretty sure Tanya says that they return to normal once the target has fully turned, after awhile.

Also, can anyone explain the relevance of the fibonacci sequence? I don't quite understand...

Gooer is correct. She says that they return to normal after the change. This could explain why Carl said that the experiments that they did on turned blood was not distinguishable from normal human blood. Tanya may have had an inkling of what to look for by noticing her own K-18 level being higher than other people and by testing the K-18 levels of the blood found on clothing of zombie corpses where they were first bitten and infected. If she tested blood near the corpse' bite wounds she could see that the K-18 levels were higher than for a normal person. If Puck kills a zombie and takes the body to Tanya's morgue, she could test the blood from the fatal wound. This blood's K-18 level would be back to normal, but a sample from the location on the body where that zombie was bitten and turned would show a higher level. From here, she could form a hunch to test on someone in the process of turning.

As for the Fibonacci Sequence, the first two numbers of the sequence are 0 and 1, add those together and get 1. Add the sum with the highest number of the first pair (in this case, a 1) and get 2, repeat this process... 1+0=1, 1+1=2, 1+2=3, 2+3=5, 3+5=8, 5+8=13... Sometime this pattern is present in nature such as a nautilus shell, flower petals and other spirals. It goes to show the awesome research and great sources KC draws upon for this show.


From a Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature
Plant spirals can be seen in phyllotaxis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllotaxis), the arrangement of leaves on a stem, and in the arrangement (parastichy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parastichy)[39] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature#cite_note-39)) of other parts as in composite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositae) flower heads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower) and seed heads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed) like the sunflower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunflower) or fruit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit) structures like the pineapple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineapple)[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature#cite_note-Kappraff-40):337 and snake fruit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salak), as well as in the pattern of scales in pine cones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_cones), where multiple spirals run both clockwise and anticlockwise. These arrangements have explanations at different levels – mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology – each individually correct, but all necessary together.[41] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature#cite_note-41) Phyllotaxis spirals can be generated mathematically from Fibonacci (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci) ratios: the Fibonacci sequence runs 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13... (each subsequent number being the sum of the two preceding ones). For example, when leaves alternate up a stem, one rotation of the spiral touches two leaves, so the pattern or ratio is 1/2. In hazel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazel) the ratio is 1/3; in apricot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apricot) it is 2/5; in pear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pear) it is 3/8; in almond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almond) it is 5/13.[42] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature#cite_note-42) In disc phyllotaxis as in the sunflower and daisy, the florets are arranged in Fermat's spiral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat%27s_spiral) with Fibonacci numbering, at least when the flowerhead is mature so all the elements are the same size. Fibonacci ratios approximate the golden angle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_angle), 137.508°, which governs the curvature of Fermat's spiral.[43] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature#cite_note-43)
From the point of view of physics, spirals are lowest-energy configurations[44] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature#cite_note-44) which emerge spontaneously through self-organizing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organizing) processes in dynamic systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_system).[45] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature#cite_note-45) From the point of view of chemistry, a spiral can be generated by a reaction-diffusion process, involving both activation and inhibition. Phyllotaxis is controlled by proteins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein) that manipulate the concentration of the plant hormone auxin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxin), which activates meristem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meristem) growth, alongside other mechanisms to control the relative angle of buds around the stem.[46] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature#cite_note-46) From a biological perspective, arranging leaves as far apart as possible in any given space is favoured by natural selection as it maximises access to resources, especially sunlight for photosynthesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis).[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patterns_in_nature#cite_note-Kappraff-40)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Fibonacci_spiral_34.svg/120px-Fibonacci_spiral_34.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fibonacci_spiral_34.svg)

Fibonacci (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci) spiral



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Ovis_canadensis_2_%28cropped%29.jpg/120px-Ovis_canadensis_2_%28cropped%29.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ovis_canadensis_2_%28cropped%29.jpg)

Bighorn sheep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bighorn_sheep), Ovis canadensis



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Aloe_polyphylla_spiral.jpg/120px-Aloe_polyphylla_spiral.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aloe_polyphylla_spiral.jpg)

Spirals: phyllotaxis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllotaxis) of spiral aloe, Aloe polyphylla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloe_polyphylla)



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/NautilusCutawayLogarithmicSpiral.jpg/120px-NautilusCutawayLogarithmicSpiral.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NautilusCutawayLogarithmicSpiral.jpg)

Nautilus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus) shell's logarithmic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm) growth spiral



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Pflanze-Sonnenblume1-Asio_%28cropped%29.JPG/120px-Pflanze-Sonnenblume1-Asio_%28cropped%29.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pflanze-Sonnenblume1-Asio_%28cropped%29.JPG)

Fermat's spiral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat%27s_spiral): seed head of sunflower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunflower), Helianthus annuus



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Red_Cabbage_cross_section_showing_spirals.jpg/119px-Red_Cabbage_cross_section_showing_spirals.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Red_Cabbage_cross_section_showing_spirals.jpg )

Multiple Fibonacci spirals: red cabbage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabbage) in cross section



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Trochoidea_liebetruti_%28Albers%2C_1852%29_%284308 584755%29.jpg/96px-Trochoidea_liebetruti_%28Albers%2C_1852%29_%284308 584755%29.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trochoidea_liebetruti_%28Albers,_1852%29_%284 308584755%29.jpg)

Gastropod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastropod) mollusc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mollusc) shell, Trochoidea liebetruti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trochoidea_liebetruti), showing how opening moves around, outward, and downwards as it grows

[Grognaurd]

Pull an example from the wiki...

Consider the growth of an idealized (biologically unrealistic) rabbit population, assuming that: a newly born pair of rabbits, one male, one female, are put in a field; rabbits are able to mate at the age of one month so that at the end of its second month a female can produce another pair of rabbits; rabbits never die and a mating pair always produces one new pair (one male, one female) every month from the second month on.

At the end of the first month, they mate, but there is still only 1 pair.
At the end of the second month the female produces a new pair, so now there are 2 pairs of rabbits in the field.
At the end of the third month, the original female produces a second pair, making 3 pairs in all in the field.
At the end of the fourth month, the original female has produced yet another new pair, the female born two months ago produces her first pair also, making 5 pairs.

[Gooer]

Can't lie, this has been a hard chapter to theorise about: everything just happened. No hidden messages, no unknown chemical found, just the events of Datu being infected. *sheds tear in memoriam*

[LiamKerrington]

Today, on my way back home I had to think about Michael again - about how he ended season #3 ... It was like: "Let's stop hidin', let's get rockin''n'rollin' against them zeehs ..."
Now we are nearly half way through season #4 ... Yes, look at it - fifth chapter of season #3 ...! And the survivors still hide out as much as possible - with the exception of Michael and his crew ... And with the latest events I see it coming (though I don't hope it to happen) that CJ might put some limitations on Michael's efforts. When will we see the survivors finally turn around and start to fight back in order to survive?

Best wishes!
Liam

[Witch_Doctor]

Today, on my way back home I had to think about Michael again - about how he ended season #3 ... It was like: "Let's stop hidin', let's get rockin''n'rollin' against them zeehs ..."
Now we are nearly half way through season #4 ... Yes, look at it - fifth chapter of season #3 ...! And the survivors still hide out as much as possible - with the exception of Michael and his crew ... And with the latest events I see it coming (though I don't hope it to happen) that CJ might put some limitations on Michael's efforts. When will we see the survivors finally turn around and start to fight back in order to survive?

Best wishes!
Liam

I think they're making some headway. Only tree or four known Inklings remaining. They are finally on Ink's trail and they've destroyed something that seemed valuable to them. Then again, their dwindling resources just may make this a war of attrition.


Numbers in the story (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Little+Ones) As mentioned, the Little Ones are numbered. Here is the list of Identified Little Ones, their appearances and current status:
1. Was killed after the prolonged or second surge of attacks on the Colony (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=The+Colony) - (#37-1) - DEAD*
2. Was on the Chinook (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Chinook) crash-side (#33-2) - DEAD*
3.
4.
5. Attacked Lizzy (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Lizzy) and Bricks - Removed forearm. Attacked Victor (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Victor) at Colony, injected in the eye with drugs, minigunned (Ch 36) - DEAD*
6. Attacked Roman - DEAD* (Wasn't 9, Confirmed by Kc)
7. Attacked a regular zombie in Inglewood (Ground Zero (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Ground+Zero)); fired upon by Tanya (#40-1)
8. Attacked Saul (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Saul) at Colony, set on fire by Lizzie, gunned down by minigun (Ch 36) - DEAD*
9. Attacked Datu (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Datu), Glenn (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Glenn) and Jay (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Jay) at the colony. Killed, possibly by the Mata gun (40-3) DEAD*
10.
11. Was part of a second surge of attack against the Colony soon after the first attack in #36 - (#37-1) - DEAD*
12. Attacked the Team in Long Beach. DEAD*

[Unit]

But how do we know there were only 12? We just assume that's all there are

[Gooer]

Now that i look at it, it does look more like they've actually done something, considering all but one of the Little ones encountered have been killed successfully..... hopefully we get a nice juicy episode on Monday for us to debate over.

[Witch_Doctor]

But how do we know there were only 12? We just assume that's all there are

Yes, it really is just an assumption. It's based on #12, being the highest number recorded, was found dead, plus #2 and #6 being killed all before the stand Zombie assault on the Colony, leaving nine Inklings. Prior to the attack, Saul records, "... Next to him (TOWTM), nine figures stood." Story-wise I think we're meant to assume that there are only twelve. Of course, that doesn't mean that there isn't a little one factory somewhere. Also, they can turn others into super zombies like them. It Only Takes One.

[Witch_Doctor]

I suspect that, at anytime now, Tanya is going to have to explain to the rest at large, what she knows about slow turners or the slow turner that bit her. Perhaps Micheal will have to reveal why he's so obsessed with Randy and how he seemed to have known that by following Randy, they would find themselves on the trail of INK, himself.

[Original_Joseph]

It doesn't seem like Michael just to accept Tanya's word that they can't help Datu. I'd expect him at least to yell at her a while to get her to try, no matter what the cost or how slim the chances.

And I love Datu and am sad to see him apparently doomed, but I'm getting a kick out of imagining zombie Datu. Every time he showed up in a scene, he'd start out with a gutteral whine of "OH NOOO!!! INK! They have a [50 cal/helicopter/flamethrower/whatever]! HEEEELP!". By the end, zombie Hope could follow him around, telling him what a bad zombie he is...

[Merlin1274]

That would be funny..