Chapter 40-3 Monsters

[Unit]

I think the point is that Randy is not involved.

He did not say that Randy was not involved, he just said Randy didn't do or say the things in that scenario is all.

[tonyhind86]

How bout I tell you what is NOT correct.
The following do not happen in the last episode:

z3 is killed by Randy.
Randy tells Datu "Get Up".
Randy drags Datu to the truck or a nearby radio.
Datu calls for help.


and, just because I said this on twitter:
"Datu is alive at the end of the episode" And "Datu is alone, on the ground"

Datu did not experience a zombie attack. Datu breathed in some bad gasoline fumes, hallucinated, wakes up with a kick-ass headache and is told by Bill to clean up some dog shit stains on the fifth floor, otherwise his sorry ass is gonna get fired.

[Elisa]

How bout I tell you what is NOT correct.
The following do not happen in the last episode:

z3 is killed by Randy.
Randy tells Datu "Get Up".
Randy drags Datu to the truck or a nearby radio.
Datu calls for help.


and, just because I said this on twitter:
"Datu is alive at the end of the episode" And "Datu is alone, on the ground"


Aw man, I wanted all 3 dead, including Datu. I guess the fans woulda gone bonkers. :)

[EpiEpee]

Quick thought on Victor's past career situation:

Victor was an insurance salesman. Victor knows at least one alleged murderer. Maybe Victor was a life insurance salesman who (wittingly or unwittingly) sold a life insurance policy to someone who was later offed. Occam's razor to the rescue?

[werewolf]

Just about every action in the last scene is strategically placed and timed; it might be confusing now, but it won't be later.
oh yea, for you and the crew but us the unwashed masses I am still trying to figure it out all what happen. I know that the mater gun went off. I think since it was so heavy that Datu
might have got some of the bearing in himself instead of the zombie

[Eviebae]

How bout I tell you what is NOT correct.
The following do not happen in the last episode:

z3 is killed by Randy.
Randy tells Datu "Get Up".
Randy drags Datu to the truck or a nearby radio.
Datu calls for help.


and, just because I said this on twitter:
"Datu is alive at the end of the episode" And "Datu is alone, on the ground"

On the ground? Hrm. So, not up on the pump?
Alone? So, Glenn and Jay are gone or dead?

So how did he avoid getting bitten/scratched? If he has the invincibility/immunity it's happened after the Arena because they had no problem locating him then. Think he's going to stumble upon something important as he tries to get back?

[7oddisdead]

Will there be tuna sandwiches involved?

wait...dont answer that.

or anything else.

[Red Shirt]

What if that was true about all of the people the zombies try and drag back? Remember when Michael saw Randy outside the tower, he was trying to drag away Tanya. Similar to how Datu was dragged away. Michael says that the zombies moved different, like they were one. What if they weren't roaming for food, what if they could smell a 'non-turner' and were on a mission to retrieve her?

I took this to be drool. Remember during the sweat experiment someone commented they had drool pouring out of their mouths like a dog about to eat? I always took that as a sign that the zombies on the roof smelled food and were sure they were about to feed on some fresh Angel and Kalani meat.

What if, due to their either immunity or extreme slow turning rate, the zombies already recognize them as fellow Z's? Like their previously mentioned dog-like behavior, maybe they are acting like a mother dog retrieving a wayward pup.



as if there is anything more shady than an insurance salesman....

It might ruffle a few feathers, but will kinda demonstrate what kind of big ol' dumb dope I am:
Ex-Wives. Yup I have two, because I'm an idiot.

[FunkyDung]

So how did he avoid getting bitten/scratched?

So, am I the only one who heard something that sounded like a knife or other sharp object cutting into or slicing zombie flesh? My mental image was of King Datu the Resourceful BAMF killing a zom at very close range.

[TacticalJHP]

Especially when the mission involves water pumps.

As a matter of fact, running water has been a bad omen for these guys throughout the story.


Randy at the pumping station.
Micheal, Datu, Riley and Angel at the pumping station.
Sean working on a running water project for the Colony.
Datu, Glen and Jay at the water mill.


Grog, I'm surprised that you haven't picked up on this yet.

Don't forget the Beach and Yacht. That was a cluster-f***.

[Witch_Doctor]

:tinfoil::flowerpot:
Let's get back to the arena. We don't know what happened between Samantha's disappearance and later the rescue of Datu. There was a time-gap. What, if Datu was wounded by them zeehs, and what if is kind of a no-turner or slow-turner like what some of us assume about Tanya and Saul ... In that case the attacking zomb might have recognized him as brethren and not prey ...
:tinfoil::flowerpot: ends ...

Best wishes!
Liam


What if that was true about all of the people the zombies try and drag back? Remember when Michael saw Randy outside the tower, he was trying to drag away Tanya. Similar to how Datu was dragged away. Michael says that the zombies moved different, like they were one. What if they weren't roaming for food, what if they could smell a 'non-turner' and were on a mission to retrieve her?

Perhaps whatever Tanya and Saul have that is making them either slow-turners/no-turners isn't even unique to them and Datu? What if Samantha, Kalani and pills boy in the Arena all had it too? Well are all dead now so we won't know for sure, but we still could find out something from Datu.

I'll up the ante on this. What if Kalani was affected also, when he was in the arena with Samantha and Datu? Ink didn't call others or even try to attack Kalani & Riley at the Mental Hospital. Now, it's not the regular run-of-the-mill Zombies that don't harm them, just the super smart ones like Ink, Randy, Inklings...

Then again, these are a lot of what-ifs; but that's what makes this fun, right?

[Witch_Doctor]

So, am I the only one who heard something that sounded like a knife or other sharp object cutting into or slicing zombie flesh? My mental image was of King Datu the Resourceful BAMF killing a zom at very close range.

I interpreted that as Datu getting cut or scratched by a zombie. He's is in distress now, knowing that he is infected. I'm sure when the story picks by up we'll be surprised at what is revealed.

[sailorangel59]

I couldn't find anyone posting this, but maybe Austin is one of the Little Ones Victor saw at one point. I have a theory that Bill was recruiting while in jail and gave a few special inmates a nice tattoo to remember him by, and that left Austin and others marked to be Little Ones once Bill became "Ink". I know my explanation might have some logic and timing issues, but it is a theory and it came to mined while I was driving and trying not to think about the slaughter that occurred.

[Malador]

Im not sure if it's relevant to the story or not, but another thing located in Georgia is the headquarters for the Center for Disease Control. If the case is connected to Bill Roberts, it's possible that Austin was a classmate at one of the schools, and had a hand in whatever Roberts was up to.

[Cabbage Patch]

...I couldn't find anyone posting this, but maybe Austin is one of the Little Ones Victor saw at one point...

So Austin could have been #5, that Victor injected in the eye.

[Unit]

Was number 5 the one he injects in the eye? I'll have to go back and re listen. Number 5 was the one that had its arm broken off at the elbow in the truck when Lizzy first sees one on the was to the arena with Tardust and Bricks. So if it was then #5 regrew an arm or he bled out or ink killed him and tattooed a new #5 or something.

[TacticalJHP]

Was number 5 the one he injects in the eye? I'll have to go back and re listen. Number 5 was the one that had its arm broken off at the elbow in the truck when Lizzy first sees one on the was to the arena with Tardust and Bricks. So if it was then #5 regrew an arm or he bled out or ink killed him and tattooed a new #5 or something.

Yea, it was the same #5. It was missing it's forearm. I figured it would have bled out too, but apparently not.

http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Little+Ones

[tonyhind86]

It would be interesting if Austin Mckibben turned out to be the guy that gave Kalani the pills in the arena. Another user has hinted at this also - and it would be a good set up to the attack on Datu - maybe he was attacked by Samantha - assuming she wasn't turned into mincemeat.

[LiamKerrington]

It would be interesting if Austin Mckibben turned out to be the guy that gave Kalani the pills in the arena. Another user has hinted at this also - and it would be a good set up to the attack on Datu - maybe he was attacked by Samantha - assuming she wasn't turned into mincemeat.

The guy who gave Kalani the pills, named himself "Martin", right? Why wold Austin use a different name instead of his own to introduce himself?

[tonyhind86]

The guy who gave Kalani the pills, named himself "Martin", right? Why wold Austin use a different name instead of his own to introduce himself?

Ah yes, I remember now. That wittles down my list of potential theories - only a few weeks till we hopefully get more answers.

[Tar Heel Fan]

My only thought with it being Bricks is why? Bricks is dead and gone, what could we get or learn about bringing him back up now? Could be possible, and you never can tell with the mind of KC working on it, but I can't see how tying Bricks back into the story somehow would add anything... I'm betting that finding out who the person is will be less important than finding out how them and Ink might be related in some way.

I know this was from way back in the thread, but Bricks being Austin can make sense in that it establishes some connection between the Mallers and Ink. Now, the Mallers were also trying to destroy the zombies at the arena, so it might not be an alliance but rather an intimate knowledge, which could explain why they seemed to have a stronger knowledge of what was going on than we might otherwise expect.

Of course, as the founder of the Tardust fan club, I'm partial to the theories that he is Austin (he's misunderstood). Regardless, it would be quite logical that the mallers and Ink had connections.

[Bullethead]

I interpreted that as Datu getting cut or scratched by a zombie. He's is in distress now, knowing that he is infected. I'm sure when the story picks by up we'll be surprised at what is revealed.

I took it as a 4th Z attacking which ever Z was attacking Datu. Because it sounds like something running away from Datu just after it. I too heard the sound of blood splatter. My thought was that something killed the Z hovering over Datu, blood splatter on Datu.

[Hellbringer]

What about that file that they brought back from the courthouse? The guy called Austin? Victor recognised him from somewhere. Perhaps someone from before the outbreak? I know there's been some speculation on here about the fact we don't believe he was an insurance salesman. I'm thinking he was a gang member or something a wee bit shady...

I was thinking the same thing. In a funny world, it would have been Victor recognized the dude as someone he sold insurance to. But, in KC's world, that recognition could come from Victor being at the colony. I think quite a few folks are leaning towards Marcus, but I'd be more inclined (and wrong as usual) to think it would be someone else from the colony who we haven't heard from yet. Of course, it could always be one of the Mallers/maller-slave that Victor spotted when he Chuck-Norris-in-Missing-In-Action'ed back into the Colony for CJ and Saul's assault.

[Grognaurd]

Flogging an undead horse with a torn :tinfoil: cap

Unit brought up a good point about the mallers being in prison, so it is harder to link back to them. However, Ink was being held at Cain Mental hospital. Then, he was transferred back to the jail where the tattoos were inflicted and then brought to the courthouse.

I do not know anything about the legal system, but I could envision a system where someone in prison could be transferred to the jail prior to a court hearing. The jail might serve as a holding cell prior to going to court maybe even overnight or a day or two. This could put Bricks or Tardust or DurAi, in the county jail with Ink.

Like I have said, one line is the tattoos were inflicted, sounds like against his will, but a line shortly after is he paid of Cohen to do it to him. Ambiquity.

So, in summary, bill Roberts was in the mental hospital and brought to the county jail before going to the court house. I think it is plausible that someone might be brought from Eastern Bay to the county jail prior to a court hearing.

[Gnex]

How bout I tell you what is NOT correct.
The following do not happen in the last episode:

z3 is killed by Randy.
Randy tells Datu "Get Up".
Randy drags Datu to the truck or a nearby radio.
Datu calls for help.


and, just because I said this on twitter:
"Datu is alive at the end of the episode" And "Datu is alone, on the ground"

I am going to say that I still stand by my original theory on the events at the end of the chapter.....

I didn't know how to do all the fancy colors, but I think with the new information it still holds up.

We need to stop trying to shoehorn Randy into everything... :squint:


I think there was 1 zombie.
The zombie attacked Glenn.
Then the zombie turned to Jay.
Jay kills the original zombie but not before getting bit
Glenn is turning.....
Jay is turning.....
Jay starts moving to attack Datu.
Zombie Glenn still has enough smarts to know what is going on.
Just as Zombie Jay starts to attack Datu, Zombie Glenn moves in and kills him.
Zombie Glenn leaves Datu and runs off into the distance.

:tinfoil: But....... What if........ The beeping we hear is Skittles showing up with some new "Get Away Zombie" device that he has created in the past few months..... which is why the zombie attacking Datu runs for it....... and then we can successfully shoehorn Skittles back into the Story!!!! :omgomg:

[Gnex]

Flogging an undead horse with a torn :tinfoil: cap

Unit brought up a good point about the mallers being in prison, so it is harder to link back to them. However, Ink was being held at Cain Mental hospital. Then, he was transferred back to the jail where the tattoos were inflicted and then brought to the courthouse.

I do not know anything about the legal system, but I could envision a system where someone in prison could be transferred to the jail prior to a court hearing. The jail might serve as a holding cell prior to going to court maybe even overnight or a day or two. This could put Bricks or Tardust or DurAi, in the county jail with Ink.

Like I have said, one line is the tattoos were inflicted, sounds like against his will, but a line shortly after is he paid of Cohen to do it to him. Ambiquity.

So, in summary, bill Roberts was in the mental hospital and brought to the county jail before going to the court house. I think it is plausible that someone might be brought from Eastern Bay to the county jail prior to a court hearing.

I like this. But my only question would be, if we are assuming that the events happened pretty quickly after Ink was at the jail..... Jail>Transport to Courthouse>Outbreak......... Then how did the prisoners get back to the prison?

It is assumed that when Scratch goes back to break out Latch and the prisoners that she sets them all free, not that someone joins back up with them at a later point.

So somehow we need to get them from the prison to the jail, and then back to the prison all before the outbreak starts..... Unless these are just all new people and we are slowly getting Inks backstory in pieces.

[Grognaurd]

We only need to have one person in the county jail. Not the whole crew. That person hooks up with Scratch to formulate a plan to get the rest

[UndeadSweeper]

So Austin could have been #5, that Victor injected in the eye.

Well, Austin didn't see that coming.

[Cabbage Patch]

There's at least one other "character" we know of that Victor saw, who no one else paid any attention to--the "freshly turned" Z he searched at the Tower ruins that had the address of CJ's garden in it's pocket. I'm not sure how, or why that Z being Austin would matter, but it's origins remain an un solved mystery.

[Gnex]

If only we knew someone who had some kinda insight into what Victor knows...................................

[Footbutt]

concerning the identity of McKibben, and at the risk of sounding inappropriate...

when Kelly, in reference to how Ink got his tatoos, says: "Another inmate had a little needle, attached to a tape deck motor, with a sh*tload of ball point pens--no pun intended--but i'm guessing that's how they snuck the stuff in."

now i don't know about you, but unless you're used to having things shoved "up there", you'd have to be pretty desperate to smuggle pens in that way. *cringes*

the only known person that i can think of that might do that would be: Gatekeeper.

[Gnex]

concerning the identity of McKibben, and at the risk of sounding inappropriate...

when Kelly, in reference to how Ink got his tatoos, says: "Another inmate had a little needle, attached to a tape deck motor, with a sh*tload of ball point pens--no pun intended--but i'm guessing that's how they snuck the stuff in."

now i don't know about you, but unless you're used to having things shoved "up there", you'd have to be pretty desperate to smuggle pens in that way. *cringes*

the only known person that i can think of that might do that would be: Gatekeeper.

I just don't know how Victor would forget what Gatekeeper looked like...... The guy stared at you naked everytime you left and came back to the colony for months............. Was a pretty big figure in the Colony......... and also tried to have you killed during the attack on Marcus.......

I don't really think I would be forgetting someone like that anytime soon.

[skankyfish]

I just don't know how Victor would forget what Gatekeeper looked like...... The guy stared at you naked everytime you left and came back to the colony for months............. Was a pretty big figure in the Colony......... and also tried to have you killed during the attack on Marcus.......

I don't really think I would be forgetting someone like that anytime soon.

I agree. Though there's a remote possibility that Gatekeeper could be the mysterious Cohen?

[Footbutt]

I just don't know how Victor would forget what Gatekeeper looked like...... The guy stared at you naked everytime you left and came back to the colony for months............. Was a pretty big figure in the Colony......... and also tried to have you killed during the attack on Marcus.......

I don't really think I would be forgetting someone like that anytime soon.


true. very true, in fact.
but there's little things like when Victor says: "Gatekeeper? that dudes crazy, man!"
hint, hint? probably not...

[ZombieWildfire]

I love how everyone is desperately trying to cling onto the fact that Datu isn't mortally wounded.

In my head, I can see him piteously injured, with limbs hanging on and streaming blood from all angles, whimpering, and in his last few moments before dying or turning, he grabs his spanner, and tries to fix the windmill generator thingy.

[GreggSz]

Am I the only one who is confused by CJ only sending Jay out with Glenn and Datu. It almost seems like a shift in her thinking as she wanted the gun truck which seems to always have at least 4 people with it to go with them.
But one person with a gun they have never used before is more then enough to protect them once she hears about it.

I thought it was a bad idea, but not inconsistent with CJ all along. For example the first ground zero mission, the original Dunbar convoy or Victor’s water truck insertion. She plans the minute details, picks her best plan of action based on the risks and then hands off the plan for others to implement. Afterwards she laments on the “variables” she couldn’t have planned for or the failed execution of her underlings.

[GreggSz]

concerning the identity of McKibben, and at the risk of sounding inappropriate...

when Kelly, in reference to how Ink got his tatoos, says: "Another inmate had a little needle, attached to a tape deck motor, with a sh*tload of ball point pens--no pun intended--but i'm guessing that's how they snuck the stuff in."

now i don't know about you, but unless you're used to having things shoved "up there", you'd have to be pretty desperate to smuggle pens in that way. *cringes*

the only known person that i can think of that might do that would be: Gatekeeper.

Michael & Tonya met gatekeeper so I doubt three people couldn’t recognize him. Austin must be someone Victor saw, but Michael, Kelly or Tonya hadn’t. Tonya eliminates the original colony people. Michael eliminates tower people. I have a feeling Victor saw Austin in CJ’s Intel files.

[UndeadSweeper]

I thought it was a bad idea, but not inconsistent with CJ all along. For example the first ground zero mission, the original Dunbar convoy or Victor’s water truck insertion. She plans the minute details, picks her best plan of action based on the risks and then hands off the plan for others to implement. Afterwards she laments on the “variables” she couldn’t have planned for or the failed execution of her underlings.

I like how everyone is glazing over the fact that she ask Datu directly if he was ok with that and if the weapon was ready. Both Glenn and Datu said that they were good. So it CJ's fault for trusting two adults on their decision? Blame should be going all around. Micheal for not bring back the gun truck, CJ for not send enough , and Datu and Glenn for not field test the matagun. I'm starting to hate the CJ hate-train on the forums. How about just going with the idea that all decisions have consequences, good or bad?

[Gnex]

I like how everyone is glazing over the fact that she ask Datu directly if he was ok with that and if the weapon was ready. Both Glenn and Datu said that they were good. So it CJ's fault for trust trust two adults on their decision? Blame should be going all around. Micheal for not bring back the gun truck, CJ for not send enough , and Datu and Glenn for not field test the matagun. I starting to hate the CJ hate-train on the forums.

Yes! it is exactly CJ's fault for trusting 2 adults....... because CJ never trust anyone..... ever......

All her fault for changing!!! DOWN WITH CJ!!!!!

[UndeadSweeper]

Yes! it is exactly CJ's fault for trusting 2 adults....... because CJ never trust anyone..... ever......

All her fault for changing!!! DOWN WITH CJ!!!!!

Alright, you got a smile from me on that one. :)

[Gooer]

Datu did not experience a zombie attack. Datu breathed in some bad gasoline fumes, hallucinated, wakes up with a kick-ass headache and is told by Bill to clean up some dog shit stains on the fifth floor, otherwise his sorry ass is gonna get fired.

You really like the "It's all a dream" scenario idea don't you....

[Gooer]

I took this to be drool. Remember during the sweat experiment someone commented they had drool pouring out of their mouths like a dog about to eat? I always took that as a sign that the zombies on the roof smelled food and were sure they were about to feed on some fresh Angel and Kalani meat.

I thought it was Riley who said "Like a dog in Heat", which was why they drooled, but i never understood the significance of what they were saying.....I'm not always the brightest penny in the bag....

[Gooer]

I know this was from way back in the thread, but Bricks being Austin can make sense in that it establishes some connection between the Mallers and Ink. Now, the Mallers were also trying to destroy the zombies at the arena, so it might not be an alliance but rather an intimate knowledge, which could explain why they seemed to have a stronger knowledge of what was going on than we might otherwise expect.

Of course, as the founder of the Tardust fan club, I'm partial to the theories that he is Austin (he's misunderstood). Regardless, it would be quite logical that the mallers and Ink had connections.

While it does make sense, I'm not really sure that Kc would do that, since it would not progress the story in a way that's beneficial, in my opinion....

[Gooer]

concerning the identity of McKibben, and at the risk of sounding inappropriate...

when Kelly, in reference to how Ink got his tatoos, says: "Another inmate had a little needle, attached to a tape deck motor, with a sh*tload of ball point pens--no pun intended--but i'm guessing that's how they snuck the stuff in."

now i don't know about you, but unless you're used to having things shoved "up there", you'd have to be pretty desperate to smuggle pens in that way. *cringes*

the only known person that i can think of that might do that would be: Gatekeeper.

Oh my lord.

[tonyhind86]

You really like the "It's all a dream" scenario idea don't you....

I certainly do, though technically it would be a nightmare ;)

[Gooer]

Does anyone else find it coincidence that CJ tries to push the trip to the water pump back since she feels they would not be safe without one of the gun trucks, and that they are then attacked because they did not have a truck AND there was only one guard with them - a rookie at that.

[Gooer]

I certainly do, though technically it would be a nightmare ;)

Depends... In chapter 3-3 Burt says that this whole apocalypse-thing was his life purpose again....

[tonyhind86]

Depends... In chapter 3-3 Burt says that this whole apocalypse-thing was his life purpose again....

If anyone was prepared for the zombie apocolypse - its Burt. I just cant picture him in a normal setting.

[Gooer]

If anyone was prepared for the zombie apocolypse - its Burt. I just cant picture him in a normal setting.

He probably dreamed about it every night before it all started, waiting for the right opportunity to whip Shirley out one last time....

[zombie Danny]

I don't think the Matagun ever fired,has a diff sound.

[tonyhind86]

He probably dreamed about it every night before it all started, waiting for the right opportunity to whip Shirley out one last time....

Yeah, I remember him saying that he first got the shakes after Shirley died and couldn't shoot properly, then the shakes stopped after z-day broke out.

[TacticalJHP]

Does anyone else find it coincidence that CJ tries to push the trip to the water pump back since she feels they would not be safe without one of the gun trucks, and that they are then attacked because they did not have a truck AND there was only one guard with them - a rookie at that.

That's why I'm all up in CJs face on this decision.

Did it NEED a gun truck? No.

But this was a VITAL asset being installed by two PRIORITY members of the colony near the rear gates. They REQUIRED more than one rookie with an unproven weapon. They needed a squad or two at least, and to notify the QRF on call of the importance and location of the mission.

(QRF = Quick Reaction Force, a group of armed and ready gunmen on standby that they SHOULD have in addition to the gaurds)



He probably dreamed about it every night before it all started, waiting for the right opportunity to whip Shirley out one last time....


I bet he has found a replacement for Shirley by now. Shirley II.

Maybe this time it is a S&W X Frame .500 Revolver. :D

[Storm]

I don't think the Matagun ever fired,has a diff sound.

Listen to this (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3675982/mg.mp3) and tell me if you still think they didn't use it. :)
First half is from 39.2, second half is from 40.3. They sound quite identical to me.

[Witch_Doctor]

Was number 5 the one he injects in the eye? I'll have to go back and re listen. Number 5 was the one that had its arm broken off at the elbow in the truck when Lizzy first sees one on the was to the arena with Tardust and Bricks. So if it was then #5 regrew an arm or he bled out or ink killed him and tattooed a new #5 or something.

Also Number 5 was much smaller in the beginning. Hence the name, Little One.

[Witch_Doctor]

Does anyone else find it coincidence that CJ tries to push the trip to the water pump back since she feels they would not be safe without one of the gun trucks, and that they are then attacked because they did not have a truck AND there was only one guard with them - a rookie at that.

Yep, i got that impression the first time I listened too.

[zombie Danny]

yes i here it now,but is 2 guns fired?

[Unit]

Flogging an undead horse with a torn :tinfoil: cap

Unit brought up a good point about the mallers being in prison, so it is harder to link back to them. However, Ink was being held at Cain Mental hospital. Then, he was transferred back to the jail where the tattoos were inflicted and then brought to the courthouse.

I do not know anything about the legal system, but I could envision a system where someone in prison could be transferred to the jail prior to a court hearing. The jail might serve as a holding cell prior to going to court maybe even overnight or a day or two. This could put Bricks or Tardust or DurAi, in the county jail with Ink.

Like I have said, one line is the tattoos were inflicted, sounds like against his will, but a line shortly after is he paid of Cohen to do it to him. Ambiquity.

So, in summary, bill Roberts was in the mental hospital and brought to the county jail before going to the court house. I think it is plausible that someone might be brought from Eastern Bay to the county jail prior to a court hearing.

We might have someone who knows better set us straight on the process but I a, pretty sure that if a trial is still on-going, then a suspect does not go to prison, that happens after sentencing (just like what was going on with Ink, except he plead out to save himself from prison). Only way I can think of that someone from a prison would be going back into court would be for a retrial for some reason or if they won an appeal to a higher court etc. But even then I can imagine them spending much time in the jail.

But even considering all that is possible. What benefit would there be for the Family or someone else to go through all that trouble to move Bricks from the prison to he jail for the sole purpose of holding down Bill Roberts to inflict tattoos on him? That seems like squirrel hunting with a tomahawk missile... why not just pay another inmate already in the jail to do it? Or they smuggled in a bunch of equipment to tattoo the guy, how about adding some straps or cuffs into the mix. If that is really how it all went down?

Also if Roberts was tattooed against his will, and with the pain of tattoos in sensitive areas like on the face and head, and he wasn't sedated, he was being held down, wouldn't he be screaming like crazy? Wouldn't the guards hear and come running?

None of it seems to add up. It doesn't seem feasible or logical, and doesn't seem to fit into the story.

I say Roberts wanted the tattoos and he is the one that arranged for the means to have them done and asked Cohen to do them. I think the wording 'inflicted' is something that came from Ink's lawyer to portray him as the victim, just like his insanity plea is meant to show that the murders weren't his fault, he is just sick and needs help is all.

I think Austin is someone we don't really know yet and like I mentioned before I don't think WHO he is really matters, I think it is what he has done that will give us a little information and that is all. Like other characters... Steven, Marcus, Bixby, etc. It doesn't even matter who they were before, they were there to advance the story now. I think Austin will be the same, we will discover how Vic knows him, we get a tidbit more insight, and then he disappears from the story.

[tonyhind86]

Was number 5 the one he injects in the eye? I'll have to go back and re listen. Number 5 was the one that had its arm broken off at the elbow in the truck when Lizzy first sees one on the was to the arena with Tardust and Bricks. So if it was then #5 regrew an arm or he bled out or ink killed him and tattooed a new #5 or something.

It was number 5. I'm listening to the chapter as I type, but Saul describes it as "one armed", so no regrowth I'm afraid

[Unit]

I like how everyone is glazing over the fact that she ask Datu directly if he was ok with that and if the weapon was ready. Both Glenn and Datu said that they were good. So it CJ's fault for trusting two adults on their decision? Blame should be going all around. Micheal for not bring back the gun truck, CJ for not send enough , and Datu and Glenn for not field test the matagun. I'm starting to hate the CJ hate-train on the forums. How about just going with the idea that all decisions have consequences, good or bad?

I dislike CJ, but not for Datu, his situation has nothing to do with it. CJ has done plenty of other things to earn her role as most disliked in my book.

[Storm]

yes i here it now,but is 2 guns fired?

In the second clip, yes. Both Datu and Jay are still alive at that point... Though Jay gets munched right after the clip ends.

[kent17]

Wait, do we know where the windmill is, in relation to the colony? guessing by the album art it looks like it is just outside

Could that beeping have been the colony gate opening or closing?

[tonyhind86]

Wait, do we know where the windmill is, in relation to the colony? guessing by the album art it looks like it is just outside

Could that beeping have been the colony gate opening or closing?

The beeping of the colony gate is much slower and louder

[Gooer]

Yeah, I remember him saying that he first got the shakes after Shirley died and couldn't shoot properly, then the shakes stopped after z-day broke out.

And then returned when he shot Tommy.

Still in our hearts kid, forever and ever *wipes tear away*

[Gooer]

That's why I'm all up in CJs face on this decision.

Did it NEED a gun truck? No.

But this was a VITAL asset being installed by two PRIORITY members of the colony near the rear gates. They REQUIRED more than one rookie with an unproven weapon. They needed a squad or two at least, and to notify the QRF on call of the importance and location of the mission.

(QRF = Quick Reaction Force, a group of armed and ready gunmen on standby that they SHOULD have in addition to the gaurds)

It would of made more sense too, but noooooo, instead of CJ saying that she cannot loose those two, who are vital to the cause of the survival of the colony, she only sends out a rookie with a untested gun, only tested on a stationary target, with a rookie guard who hasnt learned how to use the gun...



I bet he has found a replacement for Shirley by now. Shirley II.

Maybe this time it is a S&W X Frame .500 Revolver. :D

And i bet he got a knife and tried to scratch her name into it in memorium...

[masnyder4]

If anyone was prepared for the zombie apocolypse - its Burt. I just cant picture him in a normal setting.

Go around a Marine base... You'll see plenty of Burt types!

[Cabbage Patch]

There have been a number of questions regarding the trial of Bill Roberts, the LA County Courthouse and Eastern Bay Prison. I'd like to try to clarify the relationship between the three.

First, remember that the United States has multiple, tiered justice and penal systems. These are, in order, municipal and/or county, state and federal. Each level has its own law enforcement agencies, courts and prisons, and each is responsible for dealing with crimes committed within its territory.

1. Bill Roberts was being tried for murder in a local court for a crime committed within that jurisdiction, specifically the County of Los Angeles California.

2. He would have been held in a Los Angeles City or County jail or detention facility while he was undergoing trial. If convicted he would have been imprisoned in either an LA County or California State prison, or a state mental facility for the criminally insane.

3. Eastern Bay was identified as a Federal prison. Prisoners in Eastern Bay were convicted in federal courts and could have come from anywhere in the United States. Bill Roberts would not have been sent there, since he was not being tried by a federal court.

[Witch_Doctor]

There have been run-ins with 3 Inkling by our heroes in prominent locations during the last two chapters.

Raydon Labs
Ground zero
Water Mill (Assuming it was an Inkling)


The first two places were being investigated by the survivors, at the last place, the Inkling came to where they were.

So, Is Kelly right about retaliation?
Are they being tracked?
Coincidences?
Are they doing a good job following the zombies' trails?

[Elisa]

I think Ink and Co are tracking the humans. They have people at the Colony for sure. Kelly is right about retaliation, it us vs them mentallity. No coincidences in KC's world. It's funny it's like the Zeds and humans are both playing the same game...hiding out, safe houses, tracking each other and trying to wipe each other out.

[tonyhind86]

Aww man! I'm listening to chapter 39 at the mo, the part when Victor asked Kelly if Michael needed his help, and she says "no dice" . Victor thinks it's because he's got his soldiers, and she responds "well, there was that foul up". I was kinda hoping for a hint from previous chapters!

[Gooer]

Things i want answered, in order:

1. IS DATU ALIVE?
2. What happened with Vic and Michael?
3. What is Michael's link with Randy, and does it have anything to do with his arm?

[Storm]

Things i want answered, in order:

1. IS DATU ALIVE?
2. What happened with Vic and Michael?
3. What is Michael's link with Randy, and does it have anything to do with his arm?

...You forgot Mr. Whiskers...

[masnyder4]

Things i want answered, in order:

1. IS DATU ALIVE?
2. What happened with Vic and Michael?
3. What is Michael's link with Randy, and does it have anything to do with his arm?

1. I thought KC said at the end of the ep that Datu was alive and on the ground. He didn't elaborate on his well being though...
2. Vic was probably out with Michael's crew and in a tough zombie related spot. Vic sees what should be done and takes charge, Michael goes with a different plan, and the Army guys split in who they follow. People almost get hurt/killed which Michael is pissed about...But even more pissed that someone tried to take charge of his operation. He's already given up control of the colony to CJ and stays sane by having his slice of the pie that no one messes with.
3. I think it's someone that Michael knows personally. Any time he sees Randy and says his name I think of Jerry Seinfeld when he sees Newman! Maybe estranged brother/cousin who was cast out of the family for some crazy reason...

[Unit]

...You forgot Mr. Whiskers...

Last week's stir fry dinner.

[Gooer]

...You forgot Mr. Whiskers...

He's probably died of Gluttony on rats.....

[tonyhind86]

He'll probably make a cameo appearance in an upcoming episode of "Rex: Zombie Killer"

[Storm]

He's probably died of Gluttony on rats.....

He'd still have eight more lives to try to find Pegs again. :)

[ZombieWildfire]

I like how everyone is glazing over the fact that she ask Datu directly if he was ok with that and if the weapon was ready. Both Glenn and Datu said that they were good. So it CJ's fault for trusting two adults on their decision? Blame should be going all around. Micheal for not bring back the gun truck, CJ for not send enough , and Datu and Glenn for not field test the matagun. I'm starting to hate the CJ hate-train on the forums. How about just going with the idea that all decisions have consequences, good or bad?

I'm with Undead here. I think everyone is unnecessarily harsh on CJ, whatever she does. CJ is damned for not taking any chances or risks, then she does so after quite a lot of reasonable consideration, and she's damned because it doesn't have the best outcome.

If I was in charge of a dying colony, had lost a limb, witnessed the horrific deaths of many friends etc etc, I'd probably be a gibbering wreck incapable of any sort of coherent thought.

I can see her going one of two ways, since the colony is in such a dire situation. Either she retracts the colony inwards and becomes uber cautious, and everyone slowly starves to death due to lack of resources, or she decides that, because its hopeless, its time to go hell for leather, find the cause, and kick some zombie/ maller arse.

[ZombieWildfire]

...You forgot Mr. Whiskers...

I reckon Mr Whiskers took out the Little One so Datu could crawl away. :kitty

[Footbutt]

I'm with Undead here. I think everyone is unnecessarily harsh on CJ, whatever she does. CJ is damned for not taking any chances or risks, then she does so after quite a lot of reasonable consideration, and she's damned because it doesn't have the best outcome.

If I was in charge of a dying colony, had lost a limb, witnessed the horrific deaths of many friends etc etc, I'd probably be a gibbering wreck incapable of any sort of coherent thought.


what CJ really needs is a peg-leg. (for making walking easier)
...and an eye patch. (so she can storm ships in the dark with better nightvision)
...and a parrot. (to keep her company)

[Tar Heel Fan]

Things i want answered, in order:

1. IS DATU ALIVE?
2. What happened with Vic and Michael?
3. What is Michael's link with Randy, and does it have anything to do with his arm?

1) Datu is not majorly hurt - we never hear him yell in pain. My guess is that he's crying so much because he feels responsible for Glenn's death. Afterall, Datu convinced CJ the matagun could manage, even though he sounded fairly unconvinced. He even mentioned to Glenn that it needed more tweaks. It didn't work right, and he probably had to kill a zombie version of one of his friends...

3) I think Randy was not someone Michael necessarily knew before. It's just someone he has a bunch about, and we'll see that he will play an important role in the end (end of Ink?). A sort of Gollum-like character in his relationship with Frodo from the Lord of the Rings. Randy's behavior at the water works must have been different enough from the rest of the zombies to have caught Michael's attention.

2) Victor must have sold Michael an awful policy with too many fees... I wouldn't trust him after that, either

[Gnex]

There have been a number of questions regarding the trial of Bill Roberts, the LA County Courthouse and Eastern Bay Prison. I'd like to try to clarify the relationship between the three.

First, remember that the United States has multiple, tiered justice and penal systems. These are, in order, municipal and/or county, state and federal. Each level has its own law enforcement agencies, courts and prisons, and each is responsible for dealing with crimes committed within its territory.

1. Bill Roberts was being tried for murder in a local court for a crime committed within that jurisdiction, specifically the County of Los Angeles California.

2. He would have been held in a Los Angeles City or County jail or detention facility while he was undergoing trial. If convicted he would have been imprisoned in either an LA County or California State prison, or a state mental facility for the criminally insane.

3. Eastern Bay was identified as a Federal prison. Prisoners in Eastern Bay were convicted in federal courts and could have come from anywhere in the United States. Bill Roberts would not have been sent there, since he was not being tried by a federal court.

Penal Systems............. *giggle* :)

[clem131]

That's why I'm all up in CJs face on this decision.

Did it NEED a gun truck? No.

But this was a VITAL asset being installed by two PRIORITY members of the colony near the rear gates. They REQUIRED more than one rookie with an unproven weapon. They needed a squad or two at least, and to notify the QRF on call of the importance and location of the mission.

Plus, it's going to be raining BUCKETS by the same evening, and they have rain catchers in place, which means the pump can be more than safely delayed. It feels so much out of character for CJ.

[clem131]

I like how everyone is glazing over the fact that she ask Datu directly if he was ok with that and if the weapon was ready. Both Glenn and Datu said that they were good. So it CJ's fault for trusting two adults on their decision? Blame should be going all around.

The way I see it, the two adults she trusts on a tactical decision about the effectiveness of an untested gun are Datu, so... a maintenance guy who barely knows how to shoot, and Glenn... a 65+ old man with a limp. You can trust Michael suggestions on military organization and Glenn's suggestions on how to set up a radio network, but not the other way around.
Also, if you take command you better believe you are responsible for, well, your decisions:
"Let's see: the gun truck is unavailable, this "matagun" here is untested, there's only a rookie available for escort, these two are extremely valuable, is going to be raining so while it rains we have water and when it stops we can go out safely to finish the work on the mill... let's send them now then."
And then she ate her shoe.

[clem131]

what CJ really needs is a peg-leg. (for making walking easier)

Well, these last episodes PEGS has been quite... SUPPORTIVE of CJ.
:D
Ok, I'll show myself out.

[kent17]

I like how everyone is glazing over the fact that she ask Datu directly if he was ok with that and if the weapon was ready. Both Glenn and Datu said that they were good. So it CJ's fault for trusting two adults on their decision? Blame should be going all around. Micheal for not bring back the gun truck, CJ for not send enough , and Datu and Glenn for not field test the matagun. I'm starting to hate the CJ hate-train on the forums. How about just going with the idea that all decisions have consequences, good or bad?

Maybe it is all of their (CJ, Glen, Datu, or the Redshirt guy) faults, someone should have said... hey these zombies are pretty bad ass, are you really sure this one gunman is enough?

[UndeadSweeper]

The way I see it, the two adults she trusts on a tactical decision about the effectiveness of an untested gun are Datu, so... a maintenance guy who barely knows how to shoot, and Glenn... a 65+ old man with a limp. You can trust Michael suggestions on military organization and Glenn's suggestions on how to set up a radio network, but not the other way around.
Also, if you take command you better believe you are responsible for, well, your decisions:
"Let's see: the gun truck is unavailable, this "matagun" here is untested, there's only a rookie available for escort, these two are extremely valuable, is going to be raining so while it rains we have water and when it stops we can go out safely to finish the work on the mill... let's send them now then."
And then she ate her shoe.

Yes, I would agree if Michael was around or even answering the com. We been told by the program that Michael is knownly trying not to talking with CJ. What good is a military if you can't talk to them? So she has to go with gut on these type of issues like everyone else who doesn't have an military option. Also Glenn and Datu never said that wasn't completely field and only said that it was test and worked Behemoth skin. They choose to omit that part.

[Zombie-Bane]

There have been a number of questions regarding the trial of Bill Roberts, the LA County Courthouse and Eastern Bay Prison. I'd like to try to clarify the relationship between the three.

First, remember that the United States has multiple, tiered justice and penal systems. These are, in order, municipal and/or county, state and federal. Each level has its own law enforcement agencies, courts and prisons, and each is responsible for dealing with crimes committed within its territory.

1. Bill Roberts was being tried for murder in a local court for a crime committed within that jurisdiction, specifically the County of Los Angeles California.

2. He would have been held in a Los Angeles City or County jail or detention facility while he was undergoing trial. If convicted he would have been imprisoned in either an LA County or California State prison, or a state mental facility for the criminally insane.

3. Eastern Bay was identified as a Federal prison. Prisoners in Eastern Bay were convicted in federal courts and could have come from anywhere in the United States. Bill Roberts would not have been sent there, since he was not being tried by a federal court.

This is good to know. I never knew this stuff.

[clem131]

Yes, I would agree if Michael was around or even answering the com. We been told by the program that Michael is knownly trying not to talking with CJ. What good is a military if you can't talk to them? So she has to go with gut on these type of issues like everyone else who doesn't have an military option. Also Glenn and Datu never said that wasn't completely field and only said that it was test and worked Behemoth skin. They choose to omit that part.

Sorry, but I have to ask: you have a reeeeally bad spellchecker on your phone, right? :P
I'm not sure I got it all correctly but Michael IS answering the radio. He talks with the Colony plenty of times in the last episodes, even though he doesn't answer Pegs calls. He immediately answers when Victor briefly calls for help when number 7 attacks him and Tanya. He is, I agree, keeping one of the trucks to investigate the whereabouts the most dangerous of all zombies so far. The other is somewhere else. It's not like CJ was pushed at gunpoint, she chose to send them, and I'm surprised no one else was, like me, screaming in frustration while listening all the thunders in the distance and knowing that fact that they could easily waited at least until the storm went away.

[UndeadSweeper]

Hehe, my spellchecker wasn't give me the right spelling of the word. I still trying to figure the right way to spell it. LOL

[7oddisdead]

what CJ really needs is a peg-leg. (for making walking easier)
...and an eye patch. (so she can storm ships in the dark with better nightvision)
...and a parrot. (to keep her company)

today, you win!!

[7oddisdead]

Well, these last episodes PEGS has been quite... SUPPORTIVE of CJ.
:D
Ok, I'll show myself out.

and you win, ALSO!!

[Zombie-Bane]

I need to go back and listen, but in the very first episode, Michael says that it all started 7 years ago. We are a little over one right now. Does this mean they lose the battle?

[skirmisher]

Why doesnt michael trust Vic, I cant remember when vic let michael down??? Can anyone remember and clarify? thanks

[kent17]

Why doesnt michael trust Vic, I cant remember when vic let michael down??? Can anyone remember and clarify? thanks
The assumption is this happened during the 4 month time gap from the start of the season.

The only other thing it could possibly be is that he tried to hide Angel's death from everyone.

[pmchawk]

Lot of good stuff. Starting over to see if I pick up anything.

[Footbutt]

I need to go back and listen, but in the very first episode, Michael says that it all started 7 years ago. We are a little over one right now. Does this mean they lose the battle?

Michael is talking about starting his freshman year in College in 2001, "almost eight years ago, now".
"I remember the date as it was burned into my head: May 8th, 2009."

[Robzombie]

The assumption is this happened during the 4 month time gap from the start of the season.

The only other thing it could possibly be is that he tried to hide Angel's death from everyone.

Yeah I assumed that as well. I had always thought that it would be covered when we go back to pick up on Burt and Rileys story, which I'm still sure it does, but an important clue we just got from Michael and Victors last conversation was that no one was hurt. This condraticts my previous thought that we don't hear anymore about Riley and Burt becasue I assumed they ended up dead. humm, could it be that they are actually okay and there has simply been no reason to hear of or about them laetly....? I doubt it. Maybe Victors screwup has something to do with Burt and Riley but I'm guessing that it doesn't give us an answer to their outcome.

[cringebot]

This is how I visualize the Datu situation.
Refer to the ep. artwork:
1. The gunner is parked on the road between the windmill and the pump.
2. Glen is on the windmill side, Datu on the pump and Jay between them when they exchange words.
3. They hear noise. Datu heads to windmill side to lock windmill fence and tells Glen to start leaving. He gets in the car and waits for Datu.
4. Datu locks fence and runs to passenger side. When he closes the door (you hear it.) Glen is attacked from side window.
4. Datu fires a gun from inside the car. (I think Glen may have been Glen's.)
5. Jay fires matagun. He says fuck YOU!(Leads me to believe only one, little one perhaps?)
6. Datu starts firing gun at attacker while it's biting Jay.
7. I feel it's wounded and it screams at Datu. As a last attempt, Datu throws the empty gun at it.
8. It stumbles and Datu recoils further into the car.
9. He is grabbed at bitten on the Leg. He kicks off the wounded or stunned attacker. 10. This is where Datu is crawling away. (I imagine close up shot of Datu's face crawling towards camera and dark figure slowly approaching him from behind.)
11. The attack drags him back, and Datu screams for his life.
12. Attacker let's go and runs away, leaving Datu only bit.
13. The sound is the pump/generator getting shut down.

The attacks are now strategically planned. They left Datu alive to tell CJ so she know they are a step ahead of her. They are cutting off water source and waiting them out.

[Gooer]

He'd still have eight more lives to try to find Pegs again. :)

A special episode released after the finale of We're Alive: The Reunion; Feat Pegs, and Mr Whiskers

[Gooer]

2) Victor must have sold Michael an awful policy with too many fees... I wouldn't trust him after that, either

I wouldn't trust him either, the shady snake he would be. Not that Vic would do that, he's too awesome....

[Gooer]

I need to go back and listen, but in the very first episode, Michael says that it all started 7 years ago. We are a little over one right now. Does this mean they lose the battle?

I think he was saying that he started his Freshmen year 8 years ago, back in 2001, not that the events of We're Alive started 7 years ago.

[cringebot]

I'm not sure about this, but the other murderer that victor possibly recognizes... Didn't they talk about a cellmate with ink in a previous episode? Maybe that's him and happened to stand trial before/after ink's trial. Maybe he has some leads.

[Gooer]

I'm not sure about this, but the other murderer that victor possibly recognizes... Didn't they talk about a cellmate with ink in a previous episode? Maybe that's him and happened to stand trial before/after ink's trial. Maybe he has some leads.

It was Cohen that was the one that helped him with the tattoo's, so it isn't this mystery guy that was found with Ink's court papers (I've already forgotten his name....)

[Grognaurd]

Victor's Foul up

I think it was something pretty basic to soldiering, like muzzle disciplin or sector of fire. I lean towards sector of fire. We have heard that several times from Puck. Victor reminds Tanya of it in 40-2. I also think it would be the hardest for him. He and Saul are out there for four months. Heads always on a swivel and overlapping eachother.

Then, plug him into a team of six or more and he might not be used to just looking just in one narrow field.

[Eviebae]

If you had something to do with the outbreak, or knew why things happened the way they did, how would you act to hide it. How might it show?

If the tattoos protected Ink in some way, why?

I ask because it occurred to me that CJ might have information she's hiding...then I thought, no, it doesn't make sense because she didn't seem to really know Ink besides as a marauder of her castle. Then I thought that since we know Ink didn't start it--or at least had no hand in the implementation--her not reacting to Ink strongly would make sense even so.

[Gnex]

It was Cohen that was the one that helped him with the tattoo's, so it isn't this mystery guy that was found with Ink's court papers (I've already forgotten his name....)

In the past 3 episodes we have heard of 2 people that are connect to Ink in some way.

Cohen - assisted Ink while in Jail, smuggled in items needed for tattoos.
Austin McKibben - Photo was found inside the court record for Ink, first thought to have nothing to do with anything, until Victor states that He feels like he has seen him before.

[Gnex]

If you had something to do with the outbreak, or knew why things happened the way they did, how would you act to hide it. How might it show?

If the tattoos protected Ink in some way, why?

I ask because it occurred to me that CJ might have information she's hiding...then I thought, no, it doesn't make sense because she didn't seem to really know Ink besides as a marauder of her castle. Then I thought that since we know Ink didn't start it--or at least had no hand in the implementation--her not reacting to Ink strongly would make sense even so.

I feel that the tattoos are protecting Roberts because the tattoos are more than just ink. I think there was something else mixed in with the ink, so that when the tattoos were done he had basically injected his entire body with something that is causing him not to turn, or to be able to control the zombies..... chemical? pheromones? something.......

[Grognaurd]

Hmm...

Like someone said early on in this thread, Tanya's statement

He (Ink) wants to end it.

Yea, so the group thinks Ink did not start it, but who doesn't want to end it?

I do not quite understand his actions and maybe I am not supposed to, because he is psycho.

He wipes out CJ's tower, but spares Skittles/Duncan. He does not attack CJ and maybe that was because of her defensive position. Some survivors of CJ's tower attack and or try to rescue. Ink then attacks the water plant where some of CJs people may be located.

He goes to the Tower and kills Paul. However, he does not call in lots of others and he knocks on the door like a normal person when finished with Paul. In chapter 40 he kicks out the double doors of a prisoner transport van. My guess he could kick the door in, but he knocks on the door like a friend.

He laughs at Riley and Kilani after she tries to shoot him with an arrow.

[cringebot]

I feel that the tattoos are protecting Roberts because the tattoos are more than just ink. I think there was something else mixed in with the ink, so that when the tattoos were done he had basically injected his entire body with something that is causing him not to turn, or to be able to control the zombies..... chemical? pheromones? something.......

Interesting theory! Did they ever say what the tattoos were of? Sorry, i have a poor memory. Maybe it's a written formula?

[tonyhind86]

I feel that the tattoos are protecting Roberts because the tattoos are more than just ink. I think there was something else mixed in with the ink, so that when the tattoos were done he had basically injected his entire body with something that is causing him not to turn, or to be able to control the zombies..... chemical? pheromones? something.......

Could be something related to the chemicals Randy dropped in the plastic bag. One of them we know was Follistatin. The other remains a mystery, though was described as having a "distinct metallic smell"

[Grognaurd]

In the past 3 episodes we have heard of 2 people that are connect to Ink in some way.

Cohen - assisted Ink while in Jail, smuggled in items needed for tattoos.
Austin McKibben - Photo was found inside the court record for Ink, first thought to have nothing to do with anything, until Victor states that He feels like he has seen him before.

Do not forget Nick Rivers a correctional Councillor who was studying Bil Roberts in part 1. Nick. Nicholas? Therapist? Hmmmm

[UndeadSweeper]

Victor's Foul up

I think it was something pretty basic to soldiering, like muzzle disciplin or sector of fire. I lean towards sector of fire. We have heard that several times from Puck. Victor reminds Tanya of it in 40-2. I also think it would be the hardest for him. He and Saul are out there for four months. Heads always on a swivel and overlapping eachother.

Then, plug him into a team of six or more and he might not be used to just looking just in one narrow field.

Could it be the Angel thing?

[Grognaurd]

I think that adds to the punishment, but I have problem squaring it with the stated cause it is not fair to the other soldiers.

[7oddisdead]

Victor's Foul up

I think it was something pretty basic to soldiering, like muzzle disciplin or sector of fire. I lean towards sector of fire. We have heard that several times from Puck. Victor reminds Tanya of it in 40-2. I also think it would be the hardest for him. He and Saul are out there for four months. Heads always on a swivel and overlapping eachother.

Then, plug him into a team of six or more and he might not be used to just looking just in one narrow field.

I kinda wondered if we weren't given a clue about this in the episode. victor mentions how mike n co. came straight to the mortuary instead of a safe house in between. mike emphasizes they weren't followed.


If you had something to do with the outbreak, or knew why things happened the way they did, how would you act to hide it. How might it show?

If the tattoos protected Ink in some way, why?

I ask because it occurred to me that CJ might have information she's hiding...then I thought, no, it doesn't make sense because she didn't seem to really know Ink besides as a marauder of her castle. Then I thought that since we know Ink didn't start it--or at least had no hand in the implementation--her not reacting to Ink strongly would make sense even so.

I ever mention I like everything you post?


Hmm...

Like someone said early on in this thread, Tanya's statement

He (Ink) wants to end it.

Yea, so the group thinks Ink did not start it, but who doesn't want to end it?

I do not quite understand his actions and maybe I am not supposed to, because he is psycho.

He wipes out CJ's tower, but spares Skittles/Duncan. He does not attack CJ and maybe that was because of her defensive position. Some survivors of CJ's tower attack and or try to rescue. Ink then attacks the water plant where some of CJs people may be located.

He goes to the Tower and kills Paul. However, he does not call in lots of others and he knocks on the door like a normal person when finished with Paul. In chapter 40 he kicks out the double doors of a prisoner transport van. My guess he could kick the door in, but he knocks on the door like a friend.

He laughs at Riley and Kilani after she tries to shoot him with an arrow.

ever notice how he let both riley and cj live? ever consider they are both thirty something dark haired females?


Could be something related to the chemicals Randy dropped in the plastic bag. One of them we know was Follistatin. The other remains a mystery, though was described as having a "distinct metallic smell"

this idea was brought up originally with the "inklings". the idea of each numbered one being a different combination of drugs implemented via the numbered tattoos. easy to delineate what combo works best via the "lab rat tags" on their arms...I like the idea of drugs in ink pens, but I question the logistics of him getting that organized while hes in jail...or prior to murdering his wife and lovers family. that would imply that shit was wwaaaaaayyyy premeditated. I can only suspend so much disbelief.


Could it be the Angel thing?

short answer, no. long answer, Michael seems to trust vic to look after tayna, but not to work with a group. this says its something along the lines of a lone wolf works best alone...if I were victor, I would not feel slighted by that. hes more help watching out for tayna anyways.

[Gooer]

this idea was brought up originally with the "inklings". the idea of each numbered one being a different combination of drugs implemented via the numbered tattoos. easy to delineate what combo works best via the "lab rat tags" on their arms...I like the idea of drugs in ink pens, but I question the logistics of him getting that organized while hes in jail...or prior to murdering his wife and lovers family. that would imply that shit was wwaaaaaayyyy premeditated. I can only suspend so much disbelief.


That.....that is a pretty good theory....could explain why #7 started to attack his own kind in Inglewood, AND was bigger than usual, compared to other little ones; maybe a crazy inbalance of chemicals turned him into too much of an animal?

[UndeadSweeper]

That.....that is a pretty good theory....could explain why #7 started to attack his own kind in Inglewood, AND was bigger than usual, compared to other little ones; maybe a crazy inbalance of chemicals turned him into too much of an animal?

Thin the herd. Not enough food to go around.

[Gooer]

Thin the herd. Not enough food to go around.

That could also explain it, but i feel the way Victor and Tanya described it, it felt that it was more than that, if you get my meaning

[TacticalJHP]

2) Victor must have sold Michael an awful policy with too many fees... I wouldn't trust him after that, either


I wouldn't trust him either, the shady snake he would be. Not that Vic would do that, he's too awesome....


Oh, great. Now whenever I hear Vic's character, all I think of is him dressed as Flo from those progressive commercials.

[tonyhind86]

Remember when Victor, Michael, Pegs and Kelly escaped the colony - they took all the guns with them - leaving the colonists defenseless when the Mallers took over. The colonists blamed Michael, and eventually voted to have CJ lead instead of him.
What if Michael is bitter towards Victor because of this - after all, he did say that it was Victor's idea to his face.

[cringebot]

Remember when Victor, Michael, Pegs and Kelly escaped the colony - they took all the guns with them - leaving the colonists defenseless when the Mallers took over. The colonists blamed Michael, and eventually voted to have CJ lead instead of him.
What if Michael is bitter towards Victor because of this - after all, he did say that it was Victor's idea to his face.

That was my impression, didn't think there was much to it.

[Witch_Doctor]

That could also explain it, but i feel the way Victor and Tanya described it, it felt that it was more than that, if you get my meaning
Are you talking about Hot Zombie on Zombie lovin? :melt:

[Red Shirt]

Interesting theory! Did they ever say what the tattoos were of? Sorry, i have a poor memory. Maybe it's a written formula?

Not said, per se, but the tattoos have been featured in cover art. Notably, the cover for Chapter 27 (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=27+-+The+Thirty-First) and the infamous TOWTM bust picture (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/externalimages/towtm_web.jpg).

I, along with the help of several luminaries here on the forums, have done considerable analysis, conjecture and theorizing on the nature and meaning behind the tattoo; here in the theory section of the forum (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3310-quot-Ink-quot-the-origin-and-meaning-of-his-tattoos).

While we have been able to assign possible meanings to individual segments... we really haven't been able to cohesively tie it together. It is as if we have been given a jigsaw, but there are several puzzles in the box, though we don't know how many and there are a lot of pieces missing.

A formula you say? Have a look for yourself. Buckle up first, you're about to go for a roller-coaster ride down the rabbit hole.

[Unit]

Need a break from :tinfoil: theories, or just something to take your mind off poor Datu, Glenn and Jay?

Head over to the Reptrivia area when today's quiz just posted a few minutes ago and the weekly quiz is quite a doozie. Offering Rep and a few bottles of water to anyone who can score a perfect 100%. As of right now nobody has been able to do it yet (though several have been extremely close).

Come test your We're Alive knowledge and have some fun. Will you you be the first to get a perfect score?

[Gooer]

Need a break from :tinfoil: theories, or just something to take your mind off poor Datu, Glenn and Jay?

Head over to the Reptrivia area when today's quiz just posted a few minutes ago and the weekly quiz is quite a doozie. Offering Rep and a few bottles of water to anyone who can score a perfect 100%. As of right now nobody has been able to do it yet (though several have been extremely close).

Come test your We're Alive knowledge and have some fun. Will you you be the first to get a perfect score?

I was one that was pretty close :'(

[tonyhind86]

Not said, per se, but the tattoos have been featured in cover art. Notably, the cover for Chapter 27 (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=27+-+The+Thirty-First) and the infamous TOWTM bust picture (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/externalimages/towtm_web.jpg).

I, along with the help of several luminaries here on the forums, have done considerable analysis, conjecture and theorizing on the nature and meaning behind the tattoo; here in the theory section of the forum (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3310-quot-Ink-quot-the-origin-and-meaning-of-his-tattoos).

While we have been able to assign possible meanings to individual segments... we really haven't been able to cohesively tie it together. It is as if we have been given a jigsaw, but there are several puzzles in the box, though we don't know how many and there are a lot of pieces missing.

A formula you say? Have a look for yourself. Buckle up first, you're about to go for a roller-coaster ride down the rabbit hole.

I actually found this thread two nights ago, and I've got to admit, it is by far the mist interesting and in depth analysis I've seen on here. The theories you and others raised from Ink's symbols were really insightful and I think I'm going to have to read it over again a few times in order for my brain to fully digest it all :)

Am I also right in assuming that the "follistatin shopping list" note found at Raydon Labs in Chapter 39 also contained strange symbols that Michael et al could't decipher? Perhaps on some level, the biters can decipher them. That would explain how they instantly recognised Ink as their leader when he escaped the prisoner van, and would also explain how they were actually able to read the note aswell.

[Gooer]

Hasn't even been a week and i'm itching for the next episode, even though it won't be ready for over another week.....

[UndeadSweeper]

Hasn't even been a week and i'm itching for the next episode, even though it won't be ready for over another week.....

You may want to have that check out.

[cringebot]

Not said, per se, but the tattoos have been featured in cover art. Notably, the cover for Chapter 27 (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=27+-+The+Thirty-First) and the infamous TOWTM bust picture (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/externalimages/towtm_web.jpg).

I, along with the help of several luminaries here on the forums, have done considerable analysis, conjecture and theorizing on the nature and meaning behind the tattoo; here in the theory section of the forum (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/forum/showthread.php?3310-quot-Ink-quot-the-origin-and-meaning-of-his-tattoos).

While we have been able to assign possible meanings to individual segments... we really haven't been able to cohesively tie it together. It is as if we have been given a jigsaw, but there are several puzzles in the box, though we don't know how many and there are a lot of pieces missing.

A formula you say? Have a look for yourself. Buckle up first, you're about to go for a roller-coaster ride down the rabbit hole.

Just from first glance of the the detailed picture. I would say they are alchemy symbols.

[Gnex]

I am actually kinda shocked that we didn't get more information about Ink's tattoos when we found the court records.......

usually they take pictures of tattoos when you enter any kind of jail or prison so that they can keep up with things like gang activity, etc, etc.....

[Gnex]

I am actually kinda shocked that we didn't get more information about Ink's tattoos when we found the court records.......

usually they take pictures of tattoos when you enter any kind of jail or prison so that they can keep up with things like gang activity, etc, etc.....

Unless we are going to take a trip to the jail where ink was held.......

I have been going back listening to past episodes trying to figure out who Victor might know that no one else does.

And the episode where Tardust is talking about how the zombies are scared of Bricks because he can just rip their arms off........

Tardust says something like "This other time when we were at the jail....." and then he stops as something happens outside.

But, as a prisoner, why would you get out of prison and then go back to a jail??? Looking for something maybe???

[cringebot]

I have been going back listening to past episodes trying to figure out who Victor might know that no one else does.

Aye, I was wondering the same thing. Wasn't Victor an insurance agent? Maybe someone from the colony since the photo was never shown to anyone else from there.

[tonyhind86]

Aye, I was wondering the same thing. Wasn't Victor an insurance agent? Maybe someone from the colony since the photo was never shown to anyone else from there.

Tanya saw the photo, and she was from the colony.

[tonyhind86]

And Hope was from the Colony too. Maybe when she sees the photo.

Oh, wait...

[Gooer]

And Hope was from the Colony too. Maybe when she sees the photo.

Oh, wait...

Oh you went there.
Just like Angel did on top of the Tower with the zipline....

[Unit]

Unless we are going to take a trip to the jail where ink was held.......

I have been going back listening to past episodes trying to figure out who Victor might know that no one else does.

And the episode where Tardust is talking about how the zombies are scared of Bricks because he can just rip their arms off........

Tardust says something like "This other time when we were at the jail....." and then he stops as something happens outside.

But, as a prisoner, why would you get out of prison and then go back to a jail??? Looking for something maybe???

I just relistened to that episode a couple days ago. Doesn't he say Police station instead of jail? I'll have to go back and check again. I assumed they were getting equipment and supplies from there like CJ did but maybe I'm wrong.

[cringebot]

Tanya saw the photo, and she was from the colony.

That's right. Hmm, well Austin McKibben is important. He's from Atlanta. He's on trial for murder. His case papers were near Ink's. Maybe he was in the truck with ink? The only other thing I can think of is somehow he will tie the story back to the prisoners, but he's important.

I wanted to ask, is Ink dead? They said he had no mental problems prior and then went schizophrenic. They also said he knew what he was doing when they saw the corpses, which leads me to believe that he may have been experimenting on them?

[tonyhind86]

That's right. Hmm, well Austin McKibben is important. He's from Atlanta. He's on trial for murder. His case papers were near Ink's. Maybe he was in the truck with ink? The only other thing I can think of is somehow he will tie the story back to the prisoners, but he's important.

I wanted to ask, is Ink dead? They said he had no mental problems prior and then went schizophrenic. They also said he knew what he was doing when they saw the corpses, which leads me to believe that he may have been experimenting on them?

Maybe he faked the signs of schizophrenia to support his insanity plea - he certainly has the intelligence to pull off the act.
As for Austin McKibben, I think it's Bricks, the guy who was minding Lizzy. Only Victor got a good look at him before the battle at the Colony - then that would support your notion of a tie-in to the prisoners.

[Gnex]

Aye, I was wondering the same thing. Wasn't Victor an insurance agent? Maybe someone from the colony since the photo was never shown to anyone else from there.

I'm not sure if victor was in Insurance or not....... It seems like I remember hearing that somewhere.......

But I was just listening to the episodes with Pippen.... and Pippen says he was a salesman and Victor laughs at him and says he is "useless"......

[Gnex]

I just relistened to that episode a couple days ago. Doesn't he say Police station instead of jail? I'll have to go back and check again. I assumed they were getting equipment and supplies from there like CJ did but maybe I'm wrong.

You are probably right Unit...... I bet you that is where they got all their radio equipment and stuff.......

[kent17]

At some point Victor tells someone (Saul or Michael) he is an insurance sales man. I don't remember when though.
it's probably all lies... much like anything Kc says... damn lies

[tonyhind86]

You are probably right Unit...... I bet you that is where they got all their radio equipment and stuff.......

Good point

[Unit]

I was one that was pretty close :'(

Everyone seemed to be missing the question for Jakob and James on the weekly Reptrivia, so I checked the Wiki and it looks like the call signs that Angel says in ch22 and what is listed on the Wiki contradict each other, so to make it fair I removed those two from the list and anyone who got 85% or higher before the change is getting some Rep. Sorry for the confusion guys.

[tonyhind86]

Everyone seemed to be missing the question for Jakob and James on the weekly Reptrivia, so I checked the Wiki and it looks like the call signs that Angel says in ch22 and what is listed on the Wiki contradict each other, so to make it fair I removed those two from the list and anyone who got 85% or higher before the change is getting some Rep. Sorry for the confusion guys.

I tried the quiz on my phone and the safari browser crashed. Mind, I know I wouldn't have gotten a few of them right. The preceding two were right up my alley though because I've just listened to the episodes :D

Keep up the good work dude, these quizzes are great!

[Unit]

I tried the quiz on my phone and the safari browser crashed. Mind, I know I wouldn't have gotten a few of them right. The preceding two were right up my alley though because I've just listened to the episodes :D

Keep up the good work dude, these quizzes are great!

Those two are still confusing though to me. Just listened to 22-1 again and Angel says Bluejay and Robin are Jakob and James. You look at the wiki for ch22 and it lists Bluejay and Robin = Jakob and James. But then you go to Jakob and James individual pages and it lists them the other way around. I don't know... Whatever they are both dead now I think. They went down with the tower.

And thanks, I enjoy making the quizzes.

[masnyder4]

Ink tin foil hat theory...
What if Ink stumbled across something and then knew that the outbreak was going to start? Something along the lines of "Hm...there is no cover page on this random TPS report left on the printer. I'm gonna read it" and that leads him to another thing and then another and he realizes that the outbreak is going to happen no matter what. STICK WITH ME! If your spouse were to then cheat on you and you knew the end of the world was around the corner...what would you do?? What I think Ink did is decide to do was get revenge 10 fold since it wouldn't matter once the outbreak started. So he then gets arrested, and what is the best way for people to think you are bat shit crazy? Tell them it's the end of the world! Now he is sitting in the jail and thinks to himself....I've always wanted a tattoo! He gets himself an impressive array of randomness all over his face, hands, etc. Next thing he knows, he is sitting in the back of the van and sees zombies are coming for him. What does he do? He puts on some powerman 5000 and lets it happen.!

Ok, Maybe some holes in this! I have no clue about the tattoos or why he ended up different. But the murders and plea I think make some sense.

[Gooer]

Everyone seemed to be missing the question for Jakob and James on the weekly Reptrivia, so I checked the Wiki and it looks like the call signs that Angel says in ch22 and what is listed on the Wiki contradict each other, so to make it fair I removed those two from the list and anyone who got 85% or higher before the change is getting some Rep. Sorry for the confusion guys.

YAAAAAAY!

I didn't even think about the wiki, i just tried to do it from memory, and i wasn't sure if they specified which one was which....

[Gooer]

Whatever they are both dead now I think. They went down with the tower.

Well. That escalated quickly.

[katlero]

Ahhhh! My brain has been going nuts all day! I got sucked into reading more of the forum while listening to season 1 again and was bombarded with clarity moments and it's been killing me. Ok... Here I go. Bare with me.

1. Austin = Skittles
Think about it. Victor and Saul did a ton of research back at Dunbar during Season 3. That's how they found the Kalani file and the Kalani storyline was pieced together, but whose to say the boys stopped there!? They also watched the footage from when Ink stormed Dunbar and could have gotten a glimpse of Skittles there.... Unless I'm horribly mistaken (wouldn't be the first time!) I cannot remember for the life of me if we have been told Skittles real name. Also, no one else in that little group looking at the files would recognize Skittles. Victor is the only one that has a slight chance of having seen Skittles face before but not enough to remember it. Plus, Skittles was made too prominent of a character early on with no follow through... Is this the follow through?

2. Saul's Immunity
I'm absolutely enthralled by the biological aspect of this story. From the very beginning a pretty scientific approach has been laid down for all the pieces. (Hell look at the follistatin and pallets of Preparation H. Holy moly science!) in chap7 Blood, Sweat, and Fears, the towerites are testing the scent/pheromones theory. It is specifically stated that a bottle labeled SAUL is the first bottle dropped with absolutely no zombie reaction. It isn't until another unnamed bottle (meaning it's only important to note the non-reaction to Saul's bottle rather than the actual reaction of any other person's bottle) is dropped that the zeds react in their dog-in-heat fashion. Thus, proving that Saul's immunity is a biological/genetic occurrence rather than an antibiotic cocktail. It also proves that the zeds can sniff out immunity/slow turner status/one of us mentality in a persons pheromones. Also, supports why Tanya experienced an attempted kidnapping and not an actual killing. Haha! I've got you now KC!

My next thought bunny with this is Datu's apparent immunity/slow turner status/one of us mentality to his many up close and personal experiences with the creatures (*chest pound for Tommy* miss you little buddy). I'm not sure what the link could be there, but it's there.... Somewhere.

3. (I know! More!? WTH Katie! Stick with me please!) I remember way back in the day of my WA history, KC once explained that this is NOT a zombie story, but a story of survival. I know everyone knows that, but I feel there's a huge aspect being missed. This is a war story. There are definite two sides to this war and a major strategists on team zombie. The attacks are definitely retaliatory. This last bit is more of me pushing myself out of the zombie genre and into the war genre. *insert Platoon reference here* Datu is for sure a set-up.

K. :D my third or fourth major input on the forum, please be kind.

[TacticalJHP]

Ahhhh! My brain has been going nuts all day! I got sucked into reading more of the forum while listening to season 1 again and was bombarded with clarity moments and it's been killing me. Ok... Here I go. Bare with me.

1. Austin = Skittles
Think about it. Victor and Saul did a ton of research back at Dunbar during Season 3. That's how they found the Kalani file and the Kalani storyline was pieced together, but whose to say the boys stopped there!? They also watched the footage from when Ink stormed Dunbar and could have gotten a glimpse of Skittles there.... Unless I'm horribly mistaken (wouldn't be the first time!) I cannot remember for the life of me if we have been told Skittles real name. Also, no one else in that little group looking at the files would recognize Skittles. Victor is the only one that has a slight chance of having seen Skittles face before but not enough to remember it. Plus, Skittles was made too prominent of a character early on with no follow through... Is this the follow through?



Skittles once told Angel that his name is Duncan, but did not give a full name.

Now, that could be a lie, or a middle name. But CJ's info should have more info on him since he lived at Dunbar before the attack.

[Elisa]

Ahhhh! My brain has been going nuts all day! I got sucked into reading more of the forum while listening to season 1 again and was bombarded with clarity moments and it's been killing me. Ok... Here I go. Bare with me.

1. Austin = Skittles
Think about it. Victor and Saul did a ton of research back at Dunbar during Season 3. That's how they found the Kalani file and the Kalani storyline was pieced together, but whose to say the boys stopped there!? They also watched the footage from when Ink stormed Dunbar and could have gotten a glimpse of Skittles there.... Unless I'm horribly mistaken (wouldn't be the first time!) I cannot remember for the life of me if we have been told Skittles real name. Also, no one else in that little group looking at the files would recognize Skittles. Victor is the only one that has a slight chance of having seen Skittles face before but not enough to remember it. Plus, Skittles was made too prominent of a character early on with no follow through... Is this the follow through?

2. Saul's Immunity
I'm absolutely enthralled by the biological aspect of this story. From the very beginning a pretty scientific approach has been laid down for all the pieces. (Hell look at the follistatin and pallets of Preparation H. Holy moly science!) in chap7 Blood, Sweat, and Fears, the towerites are testing the scent/pheromones theory. It is specifically stated that a bottle labeled SAUL is the first bottle dropped with absolutely no zombie reaction. It isn't until another unnamed bottle (meaning it's only important to note the non-reaction to Saul's bottle rather than the actual reaction of any other person's bottle) is dropped that the zeds react in their dog-in-heat fashion. Thus, proving that Saul's immunity is a biological/genetic occurrence rather than an antibiotic cocktail. It also proves that the zeds can sniff out immunity/slow turner status/one of us mentality in a persons pheromones. Also, supports why Tanya experienced an attempted kidnapping and not an actual killing. Haha! I've got you now KC!

My next thought bunny with this is Datu's apparent immunity/slow turner status/one of us mentality to his many up close and personal experiences with the creatures (*chest pound for Tommy* miss you little buddy). I'm not sure what the link could be there, but it's there.... Somewhere.

3. (I know! More!? WTH Katie! Stick with me please!) I remember way back in the day of my WA history, KC once explained that this is NOT a zombie story, but a story of survival. I know everyone knows that, but I feel there's a huge aspect being missed. This is a war story. There are definite two sides to this war and a major strategists on team zombie. The attacks are definitely retaliatory. This last bit is more of me pushing myself out of the zombie genre and into the war genre. *insert Platoon reference here* Datu is for sure a set-up.

K. :D my third or fourth major input on the forum, please be kind.


Duncan was Skittles name at the tower so I don't think he is Austin

Some great points all in all.

I do think Datu and the watermill ambush is a total retaliatory war move. There is a strong possibility Datu is either going to bring more Colonists out or turn and infect the colony. Plus the zeds have jeopardized the water situation.

[Tar Heel Fan]

Maybe he faked the signs of schizophrenia to support his insanity plea - he certainly has the intelligence to pull off the act.
As for Austin McKibben, I think it's Bricks, the guy who was minding Lizzy. Only Victor got a good look at him before the battle at the Colony - then that would support your notion of a tie-in to the prisoners.

I'm starting to come around to Bricks being Austin McKibben, as I don't think Victor got a good look at Tardust, as much as I wish to see his character come back into play and add drama to it all (along with expertise in explosives).

While we all seem to be focusing on McKibbins, what about Ink's cellmate, Cohen, who snuck in the ink cocktail? Who might he be? Could he be Tardust? Or, perhaps with his apparent knowledge of chemicals, could he be pre-zombie Randy? Any thoughts about Cohen?

[Tar Heel Fan]

2. Saul's Immunity
I'm absolutely enthralled by the biological aspect of this story. From the very beginning a pretty scientific approach has been laid down for all the pieces. (Hell look at the follistatin and pallets of Preparation H. Holy moly science!) in chap7 Blood, Sweat, and Fears, the towerites are testing the scent/pheromones theory. It is specifically stated that a bottle labeled SAUL is the first bottle dropped with absolutely no zombie reaction. It isn't until another unnamed bottle (meaning it's only important to note the non-reaction to Saul's bottle rather than the actual reaction of any other person's bottle) is dropped that the zeds react in their dog-in-heat fashion. Thus, proving that Saul's immunity is a biological/genetic occurrence rather than an antibiotic cocktail. It also proves that the zeds can sniff out immunity/slow turner status/one of us mentality in a persons pheromones. Also, supports why Tanya experienced an attempted kidnapping and not an actual killing. Haha! I've got you now KC!

My next thought bunny with this is Datu's apparent immunity/slow turner status/one of us mentality to his many up close and personal experiences with the creatures (*chest pound for Tommy* miss you little buddy). I'm not sure what the link could be there, but it's there.... Somewhere.

This is consistent with the zombies giving up on Saul when he was in the trunk (and we thought it was all alcohol), and maybe Riley should be added to the list of potentially genetically immune, since she, too, was left alone. It could explain why so many of those who are left have made it this far, or even past the initial outbreak.
If true, wonder how many Mallers would also fit in this class? (I'm looking at you, Scratch)

[katlero]

Skittles once told Angel that his name is Duncan, but did not give a full name.

Now, that could be a lie, or a middle name. But CJ's info should have more info on him since he lived at Dunbar before the attack.

Darn it! Knew his name was probably out there somewhere. My goal is to delisted to the whole show before the next episode. Maybe find some more clues along the way. :D

[tonyhind86]

I'm starting to come around to Bricks being Austin McKibben, as I don't think Victor got a good look at Tardust, as much as I wish to see his character come back into play and add drama to it all (along with expertise in explosives).

While we all seem to be focusing on McKibbins, what about Ink's cellmate, Cohen, who snuck in the ink cocktail? Who might he be? Could he be Tardust? Or, perhaps with his apparent knowledge of chemicals, could he be pre-zombie Randy? Any thoughts about Cohen?

I'm leaning toward Cohen being Randy (Randy Cohen does have a nice ring to it). However, because of his deteriorated state of mind, I'm also tempted to say Skittles aka Duncan. Me and a few others theorised about his identity in the 40-2 thread.

[Red Shirt]

Just from first glance of the the detailed picture. I would say they are alchemy symbols.

As best we can tell, some might be... The barred arrow above his left eye is the symbol for sulfur.
The barred circle may be salt... though it could also be lower case theta: θ


I am actually kinda shocked that we didn't get more information about Ink's tattoos when we found the court records.......
usually they take pictures of tattoos when you enter any kind of jail or prison so that they can keep up with things like gang activity, etc, etc.....

Yes they do, those pictures "exist." Whether they only exist in the fictional sense within the story OR exist/will exist in an actual physical sense that we can examine (http://www.zombiepodcast.com/externalimages/towtm_web.jpg) remains to be seen.

Also, don't forget that Kelly found the files in the Judge's chamber were mixed up and scattered about. She later states that Ink's is a partial file. She hasn't yet had the time to sift through them and put them back into order and find out what she does have. Those evidence photos may yet still be in that stack


I like how everyone is glazing over the fact that she ask Datu directly if he was ok with that and if the weapon was ready. Both Glenn and Datu said that they were good. So it CJ's fault for trusting two adults on their decision? Blame should be going all around. Micheal for not bring back the gun truck, CJ for not send enough, and Datu and Glenn for not field test the matagun. I'm starting to hate the CJ hate-train on the forums. How about just going with the idea that all decisions have consequences, good or bad?

Turns out that Michael is blameless. While conducting research for the above I stumbled back across this:

Chapter 40; Part 1/3 @ 5:23
Kelly: We don't even have a gun truck remember?
Michael: Well, Saul and Puck are working on a new one right now.

All (both?) of the gun trucks are back under CJ's command (control) by the beginning of Chapter 40. I can assume that both/all the gun trucks were out on the scavenging missions. Therefore blame can rest squarely right back on CJ's shoulders for the disaster at the pumping station. Why? The first rule of leadership: Everything is your fault (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ehvyAMFL30&feature=player_detailpage#t=10).

Simply put, she should not have sent them out there without high levels of protection. Were I in that position, I would have told them:

"I don't care if you think you have the Hand of God in your pocket. Frankly, I'm a bit distrustful of him right now, seeing as how he dicked us over hard with this apocalypse and all. Life is too important, YOU are too important and the water project is too important to go out there with minimal forces and unproven weapons. Besides, it's about to rain anyway. Your trip to the mill will wait and this is not open for discussion. In the meantime, get to work on fine tuning and making more Mata guns."

Then I listened to the CJ, Datu & Glenn conversation again:

Chapter 40; Part 3/3 @ 1:57
CJ: Micheal's not back with the other gun truck and we're too low on fuel to not send out the other truck today to scavenge for more.

Is there a slight disparity in the timeline of events, as in we are hearing them slightly out of order... or should I be asking "What the Actual Fuck, CJ?"

[Grognaurd]

Darn it! Knew his name was probably out there somewhere. My goal is to delisted to the whole show before the next episode. Maybe find some more clues along the way. :D

The beauty of WA is it is very open. Duncan would not be the first character to hide his past or have a non traditional name. Although CJ calls him Duncan after the attack, he does not respond to it. Some have speculated well before this chapter that Duncan might not be his real name.

[Elisa]

The Zeds gave up on Saul, Tanya, Riley, CJ, possibly Michael at the waterworks and possibly Datu at the Mill. Hmmm mm

[Gooer]

The Zeds gave up on Saul, Tanya, Riley, CJ, possibly Michael at the waterworks and possibly Datu at the Mill. Hmmm mm

Pretty sure they gave up on Saul cuz of the alcohol smell, but it could be because of other terms.
Gave up on Tanya because Michael and co. were there to fend them off, and no point in wasting their own numbers
Riley, I don't remember where they gave up on her.....Maybe in the tower? I don't think they could reach her, and then Angel came to help
CJ, because she was in a well-defended area and there was no point in wasting their numbers - again
We know nothing about Michael at the waterworks (unfortunately, hopefully we learn it soon) so that's unknown
Datu, WHO KNOWS ABOUT THAT? Besides Kc and Blair...

Also, they left Duncan(Skittles) when they attacked Dunbar, also, not sure why...

[Elisa]

Ink left CJ alone at Dunbar after he wreaked havoc.

[Tar Heel Fan]

The first rule of leadership: Everything is your fault (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ehvyAMFL30&feature=player_detailpage#t=10).


Yes. . . if you are leading out of a place of caring about those you're leading and owning up to your own flaws and mistakes. Unfortunately, too many leaders we see today are only interested in one thing: Self-preservation in the place of power. And if that's all you care about, then the opposite has become true - first rule of staying in leadership: it's always someone else's fault.
I suppose the way CJ handles it will reveal a great deal about her intentions (and growth?) as a leader.

[Eviebae]

Are you talking about Hot Zombie on Zombie lovin? :melt:

No! No! Bad Witch_Doctor! Very bad! Drop that idea! I said drop it! Now go to your crate and think about what you've done.

[daveyman23]

Turns out that Michael is blameless. While conducting research for the above I stumbled back across this:

Chapter 40; Part 1/3 @ 5:23
Kelly: We don't even have a gun truck remember?
Michael: Well, Saul and Puck are working on a new one right now.

All (both?) of the gun trucks are back under CJ's command (control) by the beginning of Chapter 40. I can assume that both/all the gun trucks were out on the scavenging missions. Therefore blame can rest squarely right back on CJ's shoulders for the disaster at the pumping station. Why? The first rule of leadership: Everything is your fault (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ehvyAMFL30&feature=player_detailpage#t=10).


The reason they are preparing a new gun truck is because the tires melted on their previous one after escaping Raydon Labs. So not only is Michael withholding a gun truck from CJ, he is responsible for the destruction of half of their gun trucks. Blame is all around.

Poor Datu </3

[tonyhind86]

You just know that KC's reading this thread, sniggering to himself and thinking "You guys aren't even close!" :)

[clem131]

The reason they are preparing a new gun truck is because the tires melted on their previous one after escaping Raydon Labs. So not only is Michael withholding a gun truck from CJ, he is responsible for the destruction of half of their gun trucks. Blame is all around.

Poor Datu </3
Nope. The tires melted while the truck was being used. The situation is clear: there's no truck, a prototype never tested in the field, a rookie, two of the most important Colony members, and it's about to rain anyway, so no urgent need for water. In this situation, she decides to send them anyway. It's her fault. I'm sorry, but tools being used can break, including trucks.

[clem131]

To be fair I also think there was the need for story reasons to have Glenn killed and Datu killed as well, and this apparent screw up by CJ was the only option left, which is why it seems a lot convenient, a lot stupid on CJ's part and quite out of her character whi ch makes all discuss motives and responsibility while in the end I think it was written this way for story needs.

[LiamKerrington]

I like how everyone is glazing over the fact that she ask Datu directly if he was ok with that and if the weapon was ready. Both Glenn and Datu said that they were good. So it CJ's fault for trusting two adults on their decision? Blame should be going all around. Micheal for not bring back the gun truck, CJ for not send enough , and Datu and Glenn for not field test the matagun. I'm starting to hate the CJ hate-train on the forums. How about just going with the idea that all decisions have consequences, good or bad?

I am glad that I was on the CJ hate train much earlier. And in all honesty: I don't get it why CJ is considered to be responsible to what has happened to R2Da2 the Ressourceful and Glenn and Jay. For once: earlier on the show we learned about "lone wolves" and rather singular incidents with zombs over the past weeks and months; in addition Glann and Datu have worked on the windmill-thing for more than just this one single day; and finally: Jay might have been a rookie, but at least he had some field experiences - so with two guns (Jay's real gun, R2Da2's gun for real "the Mata-Gun") ... So, really: no reason to put any blame on CJ ...

But what I see, is this: She will take all the blame and question any activity beyond the walls of the Colony; so I see it coming that CJ will go berserk on anyone attempting any activity that takes people AND ressources out of the Colony ... This is going to be exciting!


He probably dreamed about it every night before it all started, waiting for the right opportunity to whip Shirley out one last time....

That's it! Burt started the whole zombie-shit-thing!!!!!! *dundunDUNNNNNNNN*

[tonyhind86]

Maybe Burt's played the whole "playing both teams" thing. Kind if reminds me of Emperor Palpatine.

I can just picture him visiting Ink in the mental hospital and saying to him:

"Execute Order 66"

[LiamKerrington]

If you had something to do with the outbreak, or knew why things happened the way they did, how would you act to hide it. How might it show?

If the tattoos protected Ink in some way, why?

I ask because it occurred to me that CJ might have information she's hiding...then I thought, no, it doesn't make sense because she didn't seem to really know Ink besides as a marauder of her castle. Then I thought that since we know Ink didn't start it--or at least had no hand in the implementation--her not reacting to Ink strongly would make sense even so.

Maybe CJ gathered vital information on how it all started, and she simply does not know. Dunbar is the information-stash ... But what good is the information, if there is none around to evaluate shit out of it ... ? Tanya and Kelly are all focussed on analyzing the logs and the new Ink-crime-file-material ... But what about all the stuff CJ has collected in the beginning? Especially the important stuff hidden in her safe at Dunbar?


That.....that is a pretty good theory....could explain why #7 started to attack his own kind in Inglewood, AND was bigger than usual, compared to other little ones; maybe a crazy inbalance of chemicals turned him into too much of an animal?

Then #7 would be the first of the 12 to behave different. Also keep in mind: #7 was encountered many months later than any other Little One. Since we know that them Little Ones grow, we cannot exclude the possibility that growing keeps going; so there would be nothing odd about the bigger size of the beast; so it seems they slowly turn toward becoming special behemoths; and as we concluded earlier: they need food - and plenty of it; and since there are fewer and fewer humans available, the diet has to change/ to be changed ...


Remember when Victor, Michael, Pegs and Kelly escaped the colony - they took all the guns with them - leaving the colonists defenseless when the Mallers took over. The colonists blamed Michael, and eventually voted to have CJ lead instead of him.
What if Michael is bitter towards Victor because of this - after all, he did say that it was Victor's idea to his face.

No. In the end Victor saved Michael'S life; and I don't think Michael is such a morron to put any blame on Victor because Victor destroyed his dreams of becoming the ruler over the people of the Colony ...

[LiamKerrington]

This is consistent with the zombies giving up on Saul when he was in the trunk (and we thought it was all alcohol), and maybe Riley should be added to the list of potentially genetically immune, since she, too, was left alone. It could explain why so many of those who are left have made it this far, or even past the initial outbreak.
If true, wonder how many Mallers would also fit in this class? (I'm looking at you, Scratch)

Nope. Saul was attacked by them zeehs; they let go of him, 'cause he crashed into the Whisky, and the smell of alcohol/ Whisky let them zeehs loose his scent. That's the same as with the cologne-trick Victor used to distract zombs ... But before that they were on him ...
Also keep in mind that Saul was attacked by zombs many, many times. So obviously his scent is not neglected, but recognized by them zeehs.

[LiamKerrington]

Turns out that Michael is blameless. While conducting research for the above I stumbled back across this:

Chapter 40; Part 1/3 @ 5:23
Kelly: We don't even have a gun truck remember?
Michael: Well, Saul and Puck are working on a new one right now.

All (both?) of the gun trucks are back under CJ's command (control) by the beginning of Chapter 40. I can assume that both/all the gun trucks were out on the scavenging missions. Therefore blame can rest squarely right back on CJ's shoulders for the disaster at the pumping station. Why? The first rule of leadership: Everything is your fault (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ehvyAMFL30&feature=player_detailpage#t=10).

Simply put, she should not have sent them out there without high levels of protection. Were I in that position, I would have told them:

"I don't care if you think you have the Hand of God in your pocket. Frankly, I'm a bit distrustful of him right now, seeing as how he dicked us over hard with this apocalypse and all. Life is too important, YOU are too important and the water project is too important to go out there with minimal forces and unproven weapons. Besides, it's about to rain anyway. Your trip to the mill will wait and this is not open for discussion. In the meantime, get to work on fine tuning and making more Mata guns."

Then I listened to the CJ, Datu & Glenn conversation again:

Chapter 40; Part 3/3 @ 1:57
CJ: Micheal's not back with the other gun truck and we're too low on fuel to not send out the other truck today to scavenge for more.

Is there a slight disparity in the timeline of events, as in we are hearing them slightly out of order... or should I be asking "What the Actual Fuck, CJ?"

You made my day. Now that you mention this, I know what kept me busy for quite a while, but also something I was not able to put my fingers on ...

[Gooer]

That's it! Burt started the whole zombie-shit-thing!!!!!! *dundunDUNNNNNNNN*

Oh shit, didn't even consider that..

[LiamKerrington]

Besides:
Only the discussion around #31-2 (Family Ties) had more discussion-pages thatn this one ... And we are pretty close in setting a new record ... Keep the tinfoil-hats, crackpots, and real-deal-thoughts spinning ... !

edit: OOOPS! It happens to be the case that with this very posting I have matched the number of discussion pages for #38-2 and #41-3 ... Ten more to go, and we have set a new record ...! Run, Forest Gumps, run! /edit

Best wishes!
Liam

[Malador]

It seems like Ink definitely has a thing for the ladies. Riley and CJ were both spared, and both Samantha and Tanya were abducted, with drastically varying outcomes.

[daveyman23]

Nope. The tires melted while the truck was being used. The situation is clear: there's no truck, a prototype never tested in the field, a rookie, two of the most important Colony members, and it's about to rain anyway, so no urgent need for water. In this situation, she decides to send them anyway. It's her fault. I'm sorry, but tools being used can break, including trucks.

But the truck didn't just "stop working," the tires fucking melted. Tires don't just melt just because they get too much use. Michael shouldn't have ignored CJ's pleas for help and brought the gun truck back. Had he been there to help Datu instead of pursuing this wild goose chase, Datu would be safe, Glenn would be alive, and that other dude would be okay as well (can't remember his name haha)

Burt and Riley are also to blame! The ditched everyone when they needed them the most. How can you blame CJ for everything?

[tonyhind86]

Besides:
Only the discussion around #38-2 (Family Ties) had more discussion-pages thatn this one ... And we are pretty close in setting a new record ... Keep the tinfoil-hats, crackpots, and real-deal-thoughts spinning ... !

edit: OOOPS! It happens to be the case that with this very posting I have matched the number of discussion pages for #38-2 and #41-3 ... Ten more to go, and we have set a new record ...! Run, Forest Gumps, run! /edit

Best wishes!
Liam

I don't have anything new to add to the theory pool at this time; I'm just posting for the sake of helping along the record attempt :nyan:

[Malador]

A leader is responsible for thinking ahead and planning for possibilities. The fact that CJ didn't think of a scenario that would require more than one mostly green guard speaks poorly of her mindset.

[tonyhind86]

A leader is responsible for thinking ahead and planning for possibilities. The fact that CJ didn't think of a scenario that would require more than one mostly green guard speaks poorly of her mindset.
She's a very autocratic leader anyway, almost like "my way or the highway". Makes me wonder what she did in her civilian life before the outbreak...

[LiamKerrington]

Well, OK. Rookie Jay was implemented as kind of a clumsy and rookie-ish soldier. But after all you may consider that he actually has gathered field-experience - and he was not just a red-shirt, but a named one. And keeping in mind that zombie-encounters have become solitair experiences (arguable, but my understanding of the whole situation) I don't see any flaw on CJ's decision ... Yes, she could have decided different or better ... But, seriously: that's what you can tell about any decision gone wrong, right?

Also keep in mind that R2Da2 the Ressourceful is, although just the maintenance-guy, battle-hardened and very well experienced as a survivor in this dark world. He survived the Tower, Boulder, Fort Irwin (, thus two nuclear blasts!), Hope (!!!), and was established as the key-engineer for the Colony almost instantly ... And we as the audience know: he was able to freaking kill a Boulder-Little-One with a f*cking chair or shit ... So, the Battlemech R2Da2 Modell: "the Ressourceful" and the Rookie-Jay ... Two guns ... In an area known to be outside the Colony, and yet estimated as to be not such a hot-zombie-zone (why else would CJ have even considered letting them out???) ... Yeah, in the end shit hit the fan, but was it a likely scenario? From the point of the view of the audience: Yes, because after all it is a story of survival in a world gone zombocalypse. But from the perspective of CJ? Clearly no ... Possible (that's what the guns were for), but not likely ...

That's weird - I actually speak in favor of a character I am everything else but close to liking ... I must haZ gone crazy ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[tonyhind86]

He deserves an award just for putting up with no-Hope. Her constant whining and complaining reminds me of C3P0.

[Gooer]

After re-reading some points on here, i noticed that some people have theories that Burt and Riley are dead, due to the fact that no one has talked about them. But in my opinion, i don't think Kc would just kill them off with no say about it; i think he would make a pretty big, dramatic point about it, and make their deaths glorious, if it did happen (hopefully not, Burt is kick-ass awesome)

[Witch_Doctor]

After re-reading some points on here, i noticed that some people have theories that Burt and Riley are dead, due to the fact that no one has talked about them. But in my opinion, i don't think Kc would just kill them off with no say about it; i think he would make a pretty big, dramatic point about it, and make their deaths glorious, if it did happen (hopefully not, Burt is kick-ass awesome)

Also, we've heard them talking after they left the Colony. If they're dead than we wouldn't know of their conversation unless they left a journal to be found later.

[LiamKerrington]

After re-reading some points on here, i noticed that some people have theories that Burt and Riley are dead, due to the fact that no one has talked about them. But in my opinion, i don't think Kc would just kill them off with no say about it; i think he would make a pretty big, dramatic point about it, and make their deaths glorious, if it did happen (hopefully not, Burt is kick-ass awesome)

I think that's what the chapter(s) #41 and/or #42 will be about ... Maybe we will have a small leap back in time, because I have some trouble thinking of Riley and Burt running through the deserted LA for four months without nothing happening ... ;)

edit: Thank You Witch_Doctor ... Now I started the writing-spree on creating new records in episode-discussion-threads ... Yeehaww! /edit

[Grognaurd]

I have been all over the map with CJ. I was so anxious to meet her that I predicted we would. For me, it has been We're Alive a story of leadership. We have seen several different types. I keep Thinking Michael is going to step it up and be the hero humanity needs him to be, but he still has not gotten it. Maybe the story is more Gothic and Dark than I thought it would be and he never gets there or is way late.

My hope is this is the low point of his leadership and that he finally gets it. Leadership is dynamic. I do not mean Rah Rah rah sys boom bah, crap. I mean priorities are. Michael has a one track focus. Priorities must be reset. Michael will point to new leads, but the colony is now just about out of fuel and water. Their priority has been increasing and are now critical and top the biters

CJ has the a similar problem, she has her little spreadsheets and watched water and fuel go to essentially zero and now FOOD is way over done. So, not only do they have way too much food, they have been blowing through way too much fuel and water to generate too much food. Frack that!

So, movie time...

I want to paraphrase Riply from aliens when the suits are asking about what happened.

Have IQs dropped while I was away? ...Because if one of the littles OR if you run out of fuel or water than you can kiss this (grabs CJ's spreadsheets) all of this goodbye!

[Gooer]

Is it just me or can anyone else hear a little on screech in the distance at 17:40, just before the beeping starts?

Edit: also, does anyone else like the fact that the two times in a row where the work of the pump was nearly done, zombies come attack and kill the crews currently there? I know Sean was set up, but it was still at the water pump, and with zombies attacking.....

[tonyhind86]

Is it just me or can anyone else hear a little on screech in the distance at 17:40, just before the beeping starts?

I caught the beeping starting at 17:30, I heard a few gravelly footsteps and a sound which may have been the soundtrack in the background.

[Gooer]

I caught the beeping starting at 17:30, I heard a few gravelly footsteps and a sound which may have been the soundtrack in the background.

At around 17:39/17:40, before it all cuts off, and before the next round of beeps, there definitely is a screech, i keep playing it back. It isn't very noticeable to hear, but it is there.....

[tonyhind86]

At around 17:39/17:40, before it all cuts off, and before the next round of beeps, there definitely is a screech, i keep playing it back. It isn't very noticeable to hear, but it is there.....

I get what you mean now. There's definetly a screech, and a noise that sounds like a truck/big rig engine. That's got me thinking now...

[Gooer]

I get what you mean now. There's definetly a screech, and a noise that sounds like a truck/big rig engine. That's got me thinking now...

Don't worry, we have another week until we get another episode to discuss....gotta think about it until then!

[tonyhind86]

Aww man, a whole week.

[Storm]

To me it sounds more like some metal stuff being stretched, but then Again, the LO's calls sound quite a lot like that as well.
But I doubt it's a Little one... They sound a Little bit different. ... At least to me...

[Elisa]

Could it be another truck to save Datu? Scratch/TarDust or Burt/Riley??

[tonyhind86]

Could it be another truck to save Datu? Scratch/TarDust or Burt/Riley??

Would be quite clever if it were Burt and Riley; Chapter 41 ending with them arriving to save Datu would set up a good segway to Chapter 42

[Gooer]

I'm pretty sure, I've heard the same sound for when other little ones have been attacking (think i remember hearing the sound in chapter 36, maybe, i'm on 32 again now so i'm close to it all now

[clem131]

But the truck didn't just "stop working," the tires fucking melted. Tires don't just melt just because they get too much use.
I don't see how this makes any difference. The truck is unavailable, it broke while being used. Specifically, while escaping from a little one. It's not there, and, and I really don't know why everyone keeps ignoring this, IT'S ABOUT TO RAIN ;_; No urgency for water.

Michael shouldn't have ignored CJ's pleas for help and brought the gun truck back. Had he been there to help Datu instead of pursuing this wild goose chase, Datu would be safe, Glenn would be alive, and that other dude would be okay as well (can't remember his name haha)

(Jay :))
I believe the burden of proof is on you: can you explain how Ink is so irrelevant that Michael's search is a wild goose chase?


Burt and Riley are also to blame! The ditched everyone when they needed them the most. How can you blame CJ for everything?
Because she was put in charge?

[daveyman23]

I don't see how this makes any difference. The truck is unavailable, it broke while being used. Specifically, while escaping from a little one. It's not there, and, and I really don't know why everyone keeps ignoring this, IT'S ABOUT TO RAIN ;_; No urgency for water.

(Jay :))
I believe the burden of proof is on you: can you explain how Ink is so irrelevant that Michael's search is a wild goose chase?

Because she was put in charge?

You're points are valid but I just don't agree. I am not really a fan of CJ but I can't blame for everything, it goes all around.

[Malador]

Michael is under the impression, and is most likely correct, that when he returns to the colony his gear and men will be taken away from him, and he realizes that with Ink still out there it is only a waiting game from day to day. I think that the incident at the watermill will give CJ all of the reason she needs to end Michael's search, and he and many of the others will move to Dunbar permanently.

[Gooer]

Michael is under the impression, and is most likely correct, that when he returns to the colony his gear and men will be taken away from him, and he realizes that with Ink still out there it is only a waiting game from day to day. I think that the incident at the watermill will give CJ all of the reason she needs to end Michael's search, and he and many of the others will move to Dunbar permanently.

No, they'll still use Dunbar, I don't think CJ will ever allow Saul and Victor back inside, for what they did, even though it was a tad bit much in my opinion...

[tonyhind86]

I've listened to this chapter so many times, I've got the Hostgator.com advertisement stuck in my head

[Malador]

I said Michael and crew would go to Dunbar permanently, I said nothing about Saul and Victor going back to the colony.

[Footbutt]

^and if that be the case, then what about Lady?!

as odd and random as it sounds, i can't see the show killing off Lady or ever Mr. Whiskers.
Where those two lurk, surely safety abounds, right?

[clem131]

That reminds me I still want a Lady-centric episode.

[Gnex]

So before this weekend began I thought CJ was a terrible person and she was responsible for everything that has gone wrong since she came into the story.........

I have thought long and hard about it all weekend...... and after a great deal of soul searching I have come to this conclusion.........


I was right!!!!


DOWN WITH CJ!!!!! #TEAMMICHAEL :yay:

[LiamKerrington]

Michael is under the impression, and is most likely correct, that when he returns to the colony his gear and men will be taken away from him, and he realizes that with Ink still out there it is only a waiting game from day to day. I think that the incident at the watermill will give CJ all of the reason she needs to end Michael's search, and he and many of the others will move to Dunbar permanently.

Maybe this will happen. But except for Michael and Soldiers we actually don't have any intel on anyone being displeased by CJ. So, who actually would move to Dunbar?

If this happens, I'd love to see the old Towerites gather in just another Tower. This would conclude the odyssey of all the original Towerites; and we would have a situation similar to what we had before the Mallers attacked - just with a much better fortification. And except for Angel, Burt and Riley we would have 'em all back teaming up. That, actually, would be nice.

BUT ...

Before that we will see some challenging struggles between Michael, Michael's soldiers, the major body of the Colonists, and especially CJ ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[Gnex]

Maybe this will happen. But except for Michael and Soldiers we actually don't have any intel on anyone being displeased by CJ. So, who actually would move to Dunbar?

I am displeased with CJ...... there's your intel !!!!! :mad: LOL :D

[LiamKerrington]

I am displeased with CJ...... there's your intel !!!!! :mad: LOL :D

Too bad I cannot rep you at the moment. You made me smile for this one ... :yay:

[tonyhind86]

Getting back to the Victor theories.

I've noticed that during Chapter 40, there was a couple of mentions of the soldiers having recently checked Raydon Labs and Cain Mental Hospital. Now, I may be wrong, but the last time we heard if anyone being there was shortly before the tower collapsed. Maybe there's a mission we havent seen or heard yet, and maybe Vic was a part of it and screwed up in some yet unknown way.

[Robzombie]

That reminds me I still want a Lady-centric episode.

I don't think KC wants to do a 20 minute shower scene......oh sorry, maybe thats not what you meant :p

[Gooer]

Getting back to the Victor theories.

I've noticed that during Chapter 40, there was a couple of mentions of the soldiers having recently checked Raydon Labs and Cain Mental Hospital. Now, I may be wrong, but the last time we heard if anyone being there was shortly before the tower collapsed. Maybe there's a mission we havent seen or heard yet, and maybe Vic was a part of it and screwed up in some yet unknown way.

Would be nice to know WHAT THE HELL ACTUALLY HAPPENED!

[UndeadSweeper]

Would be nice to know WHAT THE HELL ACTUALLY HAPPENED!

Welcome to the club! Still wait for Micheal's water system story.

[tonyhind86]

Welcome to the club! Still wait for Micheal's water system story.

Aside from the cause of the outbreak, I believe this is the show's longest running mystery...

[Unit]

You're points are valid but I just don't agree. I am not really a fan of CJ but I can't blame for everything, it goes all around.

I agree, I don't think what happened with Datu, Glenn and Jay was CJs fault entirely. It was an unfortunate event and like any unfortunate event people are determined to point the finger at someone. They will fight and argue about who is to blame, but sometimes we just need to accept the fact that bad stuff can happen.

That said, I too am not a fan of CJ and I actually think I am able to pinpoint why. It dawned on me while listening to old episodes. The episode where CJ recounts to Saul and Vic what happened when Kalani came to the tower and how it was later overrun etc.

CJ tells Sean that Kalani is a pilot and she jokingly says she doesn't 'have one of those'. When they agree to let Kalani stay they jokingly say that 'the queen will permit you to stay'. These jokes have a lot of truth to them. Kalani has been through a lot that day and hasn't slept in a very long time, and they still send him immediately to the basement to start mixing cement and crack jokes about his weight and not being able to work as hard as the others because of it and say if he turns out to not be valuable enough they will dump him. All of these 'jokes' are more true than jest. CJ does not look at people as real people, she looks at herself as the mighty queen and all else are her subjects. They are merely units of production and only good for what they can offer her.

It seems she sort of held Sean up as her king (and the only one she seemed to care about) and when he was lost she tried to offer Saul the job and was offended that he turned her down. She isn't used to being told no.

Boiling it down... the reason I don't like her is she doesn't care about the people around her, only what they can do for her. The reason I don't like her is that I doubt she will be sad that Glenn and Jay and Datu may have died or turned, she will not be sad at the loss of good men and friends, she will be upset that her best units of technical production are gone and nothing more.

[Cabbage Patch]

...Boiling it down... the reason I don't like [CJ] is she doesn't care about the people around her, only what they can do for her. The reason I don't like her is that I doubt she will be sad that Glenn and Jay and Datu may have died or turned, she will not be sad at the loss of good men and friends, she will be upset that her best units of technical production are gone and nothing more.

Best description of the "problem with CJ" as I've ever read.

[LiamKerrington]

I agree, I don't think what happened with Datu, Glenn and Jay was CJs fault entirely. It was an unfortunate event and like any unfortunate event people are determined to point the finger at someone. They will fight and argue about who is to blame, but sometimes we just need to accept the fact that bad stuff can happen.

That said, I too am not a fan of CJ and I actually think I am able to pinpoint why. It dawned on me while listening to old episodes. The episode where CJ recounts to Saul and Vic what happened when Kalani came to the tower and how it was later overrun etc.

CJ tells Sean that Kalani is a pilot and she jokingly says she doesn't 'have one of those'. When they agree to let Kalani stay they jokingly say that 'the queen will permit you to stay'. These jokes have a lot of truth to them. Kalani has been through a lot that day and hasn't slept in a very long time, and they still send him immediately to the basement to start mixing cement and crack jokes about his weight and not being able to work as hard as the others because of it and say if he turns out to not be valuable enough they will dump him. All of these 'jokes' are more true than jest. CJ does not look at people as real people, she looks at herself as the mighty queen and all else are her subjects. They are merely units of production and only good for what they can offer her.

It seems she sort of held Sean up as her king (and the only one she seemed to care about) and when he was lost she tried to offer Saul the job and was offended that he turned her down. She isn't used to being told no.

Boiling it down... the reason I don't like her is she doesn't care about the people around her, only what they can do for her. The reason I don't like her is that I doubt she will be sad that Glenn and Jay and Datu may have died or turned, she will not be sad at the loss of good men and friends, she will be upset that her best units of technical production are gone and nothing more.

I hear you, and I agree with you 100% about CJ's attitude and behaviour in front of others.
edit:
I failed to recognize an important detail in Unit9014's posting ... So I need to fix shit ...
old But I don't see why this makes her responsible for the loss of Glenn and Jay and maybe R2Da2. /old
new And I, too, don't see why this would make her responsible for the loss of Glenn and Jay and maybe R2Da2./new
Behaving like shit in general and deciding something specific - these are two entirely different things. She did not send out R2Da2, Glenn and Jay, because she wanted to treat them like objects or functional units as she usually does treat people; she sent them out because they actually insisted to be sent out, and following their arguments she calculated the risks for "her assets" and decided in favor of taking the risk, 'cause the benefit might have been awesome. Ok, the outcome proves her wrong; but does this make her decision a bad one, if so - why? And does this make her fully responsible?

I already shared my opinion with arguments above; I simply sum it up: not in my opinion, no matter how objectifying she treats other human beings.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Unit]

I agree with you. At the beginning of my long rant I said I DON'T think CJ is fully responsible for what happened at the water pump, sometimes bad things just happen and there isn't someone we should blame.

I was just posting why I don't like CJ, completely independent from what happened in this recent episode.

[Storm]

Aside from the cause of the outbreak, I believe this is the show's longest running mystery...

Wrong... We still don't know what the test Michael was going to take was about. I'm sure that holds the key to the outbreak... Or not...

[LiamKerrington]

I agree with you. At the beginning of my long rant I said I DON'T think CJ is fully responsible for what happened at the water pump, sometimes bad things just happen and there isn't someone we should blame.

I was just posting why I don't like CJ, completely independent from what happened in this recent episode.

Oh, damn me ... I am SOOO SORRRRRY! I didn't pay close attention when I read your article for the first time. This very important detail slipped my mind. I feel bad ...

[scbubba]

I hear you, and I agree with you 100% about CJ's attitude and behaviour in front of others.
edit:
I failed to recognize an important detail in Unit9014's posting ... So I need to fix shit ...
old But I don't see why this makes her responsible for the loss of Glenn and Jay and maybe R2Da2. /old
new And I, too, don't see why this would make her responsible for the loss of Glenn and Jay and maybe R2Da2./new
Behaving like shit in general and deciding something specific - these are two entirely different things. She did not send out R2Da2, Glenn and Jay, because she wanted to treat them like objects or functional units as she usually does treat people; she sent them out because they actually insisted to be sent out, and following their arguments she calculated the risks for "her assets" and decided in favor of taking the risk, 'cause the benefit might have been awesome. Ok, the outcome proves her wrong; but does this make her decision a bad one, if so - why? And does this make her fully responsible?

I already shared my opinion with arguments above; I simply sum it up: not in my opinion, no matter how objectifying she treats other human beings.

Best wishes!
Liam

Funny how she lets Datu and crew go out in a dangerous situation that she feels will benefit her goals because they insist nut she is all butt hurt and squawking when Michael "insists" on doing something that she isn't focused on. I still see it as furthering her own goals and their "insistence" is going to be a way for he to wriggle out of blame. I'm trying to remember where it is in the story but I think there's at least one place in Season 3 where CJ makes a big point of "It wasn't my fault!", maybe even repeating it a couple of times. I might be crossing wires on that one though.

Anyway, maybe she has been lulled into a false sense of security because there hasn't been much activity near the Colony lately. Maybe she's just stretched so thin on worrying about all the issues she talked to Pegs about last episode. Maybe a combination of things led her to making a bad decision. But I see it as another in a succession of bad judgement calls over the arc of her character.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Im my opinion, CJ accepted to be the leader of the colony back in chapter 37, so she is of course entitled to deny Glenn and Datu to go out on their mission. That is simply one the most fundamental mandates she received by the colonists. With special regards to the Glenn and Datu situation, she seemed to have never considered to defend them from their own technological eagerness to fix things sooner than latter for the sake of the colony. I personally know how techies operate, they are often too optimistic while neglecting the risks especially if there is only one more little step to go. CJ has known Datu for more than four months and should have considered that.

[scbubba]

Im my opinion, CJ accepted to be the leader of the colony back in chapter 37, so she is of course entitled to deny Glenn and Datu to go out on their mission. That is simply one the most fundamental mandates she received by the colonists. With special regards to the Glenn and Datu situation, she seemed to have never considered to defend them from their own technological eagerness to fix things sooner than latter for the sake of the colony. I personally know how techies operate, they are often too optimistic while neglecting the risks especially if there is only one more little step to go. CJ has known Datu for more than four months and should have considered that.

Yes! Most definitely this ^^^^^^

It's one of the reasons managing techies can be so challenging. On one hand, they'll have something that "can't possibly fail" so they don't take proper precautions or prep correctly. On the other hand, something "would never work" and gets put off or ignored until someone else actually does it (causing big ego wounds).

More points against CJs real world leadership skills. And more for her background as a "but here it is on paper!" type...

[LiamKerrington]

CJ has known Datu for more than four months and should have considered that.

As far as I can tell: CJ did not know R2Da2 until she woke up from the surgery on her leg; before that it might have happened that Saul might have mentioned R2Da2; but that wouldn't be enough to say that CJ "knows" R2Da2 well enough for longer than just the last four months. But I agree in that way that during the last 4 months she had plenty of opportunity to understand R2Da2 well enough.
Infact: she knows Glenn much longer than R2Da2, because it was Glenn she put into one of the many safe-houses und who fueled the idea of repairing the broken sat-phone ... Maybe you confused the names? *g*

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

As far as I can tell: CJ did not know R2Da2 until she woke up from the surgery on her leg; before that it might have happened that Saul might have mentioned R2Da2; but that wouldn't be enough to say that CJ "knows" R2Da2 well enough for longer than just the last four months. But I agree in that way that during the last 4 months she had plenty of opportunity to understand R2Da2 well enough.
Infact: she knows Glenn much longer than R2Da2, because it was Glenn she put into one of the many safe-houses und who fueled the idea of repairing the broken sat-phone ... Maybe you confused the names? *g*

:) Probably.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Yes! Most definitely this ^^^^^^

It's one of the reasons managing techies can be so challenging. On one hand, they'll have something that "can't possibly fail" so they don't take proper precautions or prep correctly. On the other hand, something "would never work" and gets put off or ignored until someone else actually does it (causing big ego wounds).

More points against CJs real world leadership skills. And more for her background as a "but here it is on paper!" type...

Hm, we both know these people, do we not? :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9SVhg6ZENw

[skankyfish]

As far as I can tell: CJ did not know R2Da2 until she woke up from the surgery on her leg; before that it might have happened that Saul might have mentioned R2Da2; but that wouldn't be enough to say that CJ "knows" R2Da2 well enough for longer than just the last four months. But I agree in that way that during the last 4 months she had plenty of opportunity to understand R2Da2 well enough.
Infact: she knows Glenn much longer than R2Da2, because it was Glenn she put into one of the many safe-houses und who fueled the idea of repairing the broken sat-phone ... Maybe you confused the names? *g*

Didn't she wake up from surgery 4 months ago though? Or am I confusing the timeline?

[ZombieWildfire]

Boiling it down... the reason I don't like her is she doesn't care about the people around her, only what they can do for her. The reason I don't like her is that I doubt she will be sad that Glenn and Jay and Datu may have died or turned, she will not be sad at the loss of good men and friends, she will be upset that her best units of technical production are gone and nothing more.

Pretty rational, safe way to be in the midst of a zombie apocalypse, if you ask me.

CJ is business-like and clinical indeed. But I think that's a pretty normal reaction when so many around you have died horrifically. Some people go in for making human connections, others go in for shutting down, and self-protection. And to be honest, its the latter type that would probably do better in the acute stages of a zombie-eat-person world.

I'm not saying that CJ has always made the right decisions, or is a great leader or anything. But I can totally understand her character traits that everyone else seems to so dislike.

[Unit]

Pretty rational, safe way to be in the midst of a zombie apocalypse, if you ask me.

CJ is business-like and clinical indeed. But I think that's a pretty normal reaction when so many around you have died horrifically. Some people go in for making human connections, others go in for shutting down, and self-protection. And to be honest, its the latter type that would probably do better in the acute stages of a zombie-eat-person world.

I'm not saying that CJ has always made the right decisions, or is a great leader or anything. But I can totally understand her character traits that everyone else seems to so dislike.

Perhaps I am wrong and this is an attribute she developed since the outbreak, but I don't think so. The vibe I am getting is that this is just her personality and always has been. There is a difference between not developing attachments to people as a way of easing the pain of they die, and acting like a queen/dictator working your pawns as hard as you can to achieve the maximum output. I see CJ filling the latter role. We see examples of the first type with Michael and Tanya trying not to get too emotionally attached to people and it is a very different emotional response than what we get with CJ.

[ZombieWildfire]

and acting like a queen/dictator working your pawns as hard as you can to achieve the maximum output. .

But, given the stakes, is this a problem or a virtue? If she didn't try to (And I'm not saying she is succeeding) get the most out of the colonists, they'd all have run out of water, fuel, and goodness only knows what else. Like I said earlier on in this thread, she's damned if she's cautious and damned is she isn't.

As far as I can remember (though I do have an utterly terrible memory), we've only really seen CJ since the outbreak. And it seems to me that she has changed. To me, she seemed a lot more emotional with her tower folk, then she seems to have become harder and more cautious after that got Inked, and as time has gone on and limbs have gone AWOL, and now she's reaching breaking point on account of the colony's situation again, and she's starting to make more emotional decisions. I think how she is with Pegs is a slight indicator of that.

then again, perhaps I am just dead inside, so I get her :p

[Unit]

Oh, damn me ... I am SOOO SORRRRRY! I didn't pay close attention when I read your article for the first time. This very important detail slipped my mind. I feel bad ...

No worries, no need to feel bad. We agree on this point and even if we didn't you still rock

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

No worries, no need to feel bad. We agree on this point and even if we didn't you still rock

Liam never rocked, he might be called old as a rock though. :cool: *runs for cover*

[UndeadSweeper]

KC, do you give group discount for renting the Arena? Our favorite pod-casters haven't gotten an ep up since 11/20 and the people need to be entertain.

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Is it just me or is there someone else who has wished for the imaginary episode 37-4: What CJ promised to the colonists in order to win their hearts and votes?

[Gnex]

Wrong... We still don't know what the test Michael was going to take was about. I'm sure that holds the key to the outbreak... Or not...

The test is on World Ending Pandemics........ and Michael fell asleep Cramming for the test the night before....... This whole story is just one wild dream..... and the final chapter will end with an Alarm clock going off as Michael is late for the test!!! :tinfoil:

[Unit]

But, given the stakes, is this a problem or a virtue? If she didn't try to (And I'm not saying she is succeeding) get the most out of the colonists, they'd all have run out of water, fuel, and goodness only knows what else. Like I said earlier on in this thread, she's damned if she's cautious and damned is she isn't.

As far as I can remember (though I do have an utterly terrible memory), we've only really seen CJ since the outbreak. And it seems to me that she has changed. To me, she seemed a lot more emotional with her tower folk, then she seems to have become harder and more cautious after that got Inked, and as time has gone on and limbs have gone AWOL, and now she's reaching breaking point on account of the colony's situation again, and she's starting to make more emotional decisions. I think how she is with Pegs is a slight indicator of that.

then again, perhaps I am just dead inside, so I get her :p

I guess I look at it from a different viewpoint. Perhaps if she let others take a little more control and initiative themselves rather than just following her to do list, they could have solved their water problem long ago. Maybe not, but I think it is a high possibility.

And I agree she has changed a little bit, when at Dunbar she had a big portion of people 'escape' and run away (how much more efficient and productive could they have been if those people had stayed?). It doesn't sound like they have had too many people bail on the Colony except Burt and Riley, and maybe if you count those who have left the Colony to be based out of Dunbar too but that is sort of a gray area.

Th thing that hasn't changed and again is the very reason I don't like her as a person/character is that she is still only looking out for herself. She does talk to Pegs, but mentions to Pegs that it might be better if some of the Colony members left so that the food and water would go longer (i.e. more for her and less for them). Look at this vs the contrasting method of Michael and Burt when they were still in the tower. They were running out of food and water, so they started rationing it out, to the point that everyone was complaining about how little they were getting, but everyone was still getting some and everyone got the same; each person was equally important.

There may be some benefits to CJ's methodology, but I think the cons far outweigh the benefits, and those cons become most evident when the crap hits the fan... and I think we are getting there soon.

[UndeadSweeper]

I guess I look at it from a different viewpoint. Perhaps if she let others take a little more control and initiative themselves rather than just following her to do list, they could have solved their water problem long ago. Maybe not, but I think it is a high possibility.

And I agree she has changed a little bit, when at Dunbar she had a big portion of people 'escape' and run away (how much more efficient and productive could they have been if those people had stayed?). It doesn't sound like they have had too many people bail on the Colony except Burt and Riley, and maybe if you count those who have left the Colony to be based out of Dunbar too but that is sort of a gray area.

Th thing that hasn't changed and again is the very reason I don't like her as a person/character is that she is still only looking out for herself. She does talk to Pegs, but mentions to Pegs that it might be better if some of the Colony members left so that the food and water would go longer (i.e. more for her and less for them). Look at this vs the contrasting method of Michael and Burt when they were still in the tower. They were running out of food and water, so they started rationing it out, to the point that everyone was complaining about how little they were getting, but everyone was still getting some and everyone got the same; each person was equally important.

There may be some benefits to CJ's methodology, but I think the cons far outweigh the benefits, and those cons become most evident when the crap hits the fan... and I think we are getting there soon.

I think you may be take a private conversation out of context. She sound more frustrate then want people to leave. To me its seem she was laid out all the option that were available, ever ought they wouldn't be taken, out to Pegs.

[LiamKerrington]

Didn't she wake up from surgery 4 months ago though? Or am I confusing the timeline?

Na, you are right. My statement addressed YABC's estimate that CJ would know R2Da2 for more than four months.


Liam never rocked, he might be called old as a rock though. :cool: *runs for cover*

Hiding won't help you. To quote one of the uber-coolest bitches from podcast-universe: "You better start running ..." :p (I hope you know who I quote here ... Else for certain: "You better start RUNNING!!!")

Best wishes!
Liam

[scbubba]

Hm, we both know these people, do we not? :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9SVhg6ZENw

Oh, indeed we do, my friend. Indeed we do.... :D

[YetAnotherBloodyCheek]

Na, you are right. My statement addressed YABC's estimate that CJ would know R2Da2 for more than four months.



Hiding won't help you. To quote one of the uber-coolest bitches from podcast-universe: "You better start running ..." :p (I hope you know who I quote here ... Else for certain: "You better start RUNNING!!!")

Best wishes!
Liam

Ah, you are such a lawyer (when it comes to counting the months).

[scbubba]

Love the back and forth on CJ that's in this thread. I've mouthed off about her character many, many times myself so it's good to see some others having the conversation... :)

I'm on the side that I think Unit is with respect to CJ: she's really just in it for herself and other people are around because they serve some purpose for her. I don't know if that's how she started (pre-Zday) or if it's what she became on Zday or if it's who she became after Ink's Dun-Bar-B-Que.

Where we are now is that she has decided that she is the smartest one on Team Human and everyone else needs to listen to her and do their jobs the way she says if things are gonna work right. She's shot herself in the foot (the one she had left anyway!) with Burt & Riley right away and a little later on with Michael. Even Datu was working behind her back on the Matagun.

Maybe she will end up with something redeeming but since we initially met her, and even in some of Kalani's flashback stuff, she's been mostly this same way and I, for one, don't like "her". I love the writing and the acting, don't get me wrong. If a character can elicit strong emotions from the audience, then something has probably been done very write by writer, cast, and crew.

[Unit]

I think you may be take a private conversation out of context. She sound more frustrate then want people to leave. To me its seem she was laid out all the option that were available, ever ought they wouldn't be taken, out to Pegs.

Perhaps, but perhaps not. She had no problem driving Saul and Victor away and 'banishing' them from HER colony because SHE couldn't trust them even though Victor and Saul helped save all those colony members. (Again making decisions that are detrimental to everyone else in order to serve her own best interests). So she has no problem kicking people out as long as she believes it serves her best.

And just like like I mentioned with the jokes about 'I don't have a pilot' and 'The queen will permit you to stay'. With every idle comment there is a hint of truth. She mentions the option because she has thought about it and considered it. She may not be likely to follow through with it, but based on experience and knowledge of CJ's character, if she comes to the conclusion that this is the best option for her then she will do it.

[Gnex]

I don't understand this CJ talk......... CJ is a horrible horrible monster........ Prolly where the chapter got its name from..........

CJ and Ink are working together........ Ink tells her that the zombies are hungry......... and then CJ send people out into bad situations with limited resources so they can be zombie snacks!!!!

[Gnex]

going back listening thru the story again...........

thoughts on skittles.......

During his time at Dunbar.... duncan/skittles sounds like a pretty normal guy.........

The first time we actually meet skittles(Angel, Riley, Datu) he is very crazy and erratic.... barely can care for himself....... only talks to Riley...... runs away screaming.... (this is all acceptable behavior since his entire tower was just taken/killed and it was his fault more or less)

The second time we meet skittles(Angel, Kalani) he is still a bit crazy, but you can tell that he is starting to come back to reality..... He remembers Angel and even thinks he remembers Kalani....... He is scavenging for himself.... helps with plan to kill the Behemoth..... changes a tire, etc, etc.....


My question/thought is........ When we meet skittles/duncan again are we going to meet a full recovered person??? Has enough time passed for him to return to the original Duncan??? Who was the original Duncan? What did he do? etc, etc, etc......

[Unit]

I don't know why but I have a feeling that we are done with skittles character. He has served his purpose and run his course in the story. I don't think his back story will be relevant enough to bring up, especially thins late in the show. Only so many chapters to wrap everything up.... There are more important things to resolve and questions to answer. Maybe they find his body somewhere and give him a proper burial or something at most.

[LiamKerrington]

.....


My question/thought is........ When we meet skittles/duncan again are we going to meet a full recovered person??? Has enough time passed for him to return to the original Duncan??? Who was the original Duncan? What did he do? etc, etc, etc......


I don't know why but I have a feeling that we are done with skittles character. He has served his purpose and run his course in the story. I don't think his back story will be relevant enough to bring up, especially thins late in the show. Only so many chapters to wrap everything up.... There are more important things to resolve and questions to answer. Maybe they find his body somewhere and give him a proper burial or something at most.

I would love to see him again, 'cause he fits into the whole picture of WA. And I am not so certain that he already served his purpose. Regardless I tend to concurr with Unit9014. Just trying to imagine how Skittles might get invlved again, I am pretty close to only "one" to "four" possible plots:
I) Either he would give shelter to other survivors or help them with intel - and that would be just the mere repitition of what we already heard in the Angel/ Kalani encounter.
II) The next option would be to find a survivor who really deserves the title "survivor"; but has he the potential to become such a guy, and how would this serve the story? Maybe Skittles as kind of a "Ronin" or Lonesome-Ranger dude aiding the others in what ever way. Again: would WA need this? Not really, I guess ...
III) The third plot would be to find him as being a "Smart One" ... And that would - actually - give some interesting twists or irritations into the story - especially, if Skittles remembers faces from back in time like Riley or uniforms from the soldiers or Hope or CJ? That would be - actually - quite interesting to see.
IV) He is mentally ill and somehow gets to the Colony and finds shelter. As with I and II: What would be the purpose of this? Maybe that he opens the gates another time? On the other side: it could be quite a test for CJ to decide whether to let him in or not - and that maybe in the face of other Colonies and maybe even with zombs rushing in in order to take out Skittles. That would be a "nice" scene as well - not so nice for Skittles, but nice regarding character building of CJ's and others and catalyzing trouble within the Colony ...

Just a couple of thoughts after a long day at 1 am ... Sorry for heavy misspelling. I guess you are used to it ... Good night ...

Best wishes!
Liam

[skankyfish]

III) The third plot would be to find him as being a "Smart One" ... And that would - actually - give some interesting twists or irritations into the story - especially, if Skittles remembers faces from back in time like Riley or uniforms from the soldiers or Hope or CJ? That would be - actually - quite interesting to see.


That would allow an interesting (and only slightly :tinfoil:) story device - at Dunbar Skittles let the smart one in; maybe at the colony he would be the smart one who gets let in? It would have a neat symmetry, and if there's going to be a massacre (which I have an uneasy feeling there might be) then that's as good a way as any to get it started....

[ZombieWildfire]

If a character can elicit strong emotions from the audience, then something has probably been done very write by writer, cast, and crew.

This. Oh, so this.

[ZombieWildfire]

Random, most probably inconsequential thought:

the Matagun was only tested on Behemoth skin. Perhaps the Little One that attacked the group has now evolved so much that the Matagun, despite functioning perfectly, made no difference to it and didn't puncture its skin at all.

*clings onto some hope that King Datu The Resourceful's last invention might still work, somehow*

[ZombieWildfire]

Random, most probably inconsequential thought:

the Matagun was only tested on Behemoth skin. Perhaps the Little One that attacked the group has now evolved so much that the Matagun, despite functioning perfectly, made no difference to it and didn't puncture its skin at all.

*clings onto some hope that King Datu The Resourceful's last invention might still work, somehow*

[Gooer]

Random, most probably inconsequential thought:

the Matagun was only tested on Behemoth skin. Perhaps the Little One that attacked the group has now evolved so much that the Matagun, despite functioning perfectly, made no difference to it and didn't puncture its skin at all.

*clings onto some hope that King Datu The Resourceful's last invention might still work, somehow*

I'm thinking that it was easy to penetrate the behemoth skin because 1) it wasn't moving, making it a lot easier to aim at and 2), depending how the skin was hung for the target, there is still muscle and bone behind the skin, and i don't think it was not specified whether the behemoth skin was just stretched, or put around something so it was more life-like

[Gnex]

I would love to see him again, 'cause he fits into the whole picture of WA. And I am not so certain that he already served his purpose. Regardless I tend to concurr with Unit9014. Just trying to imagine how Skittles might get invlved again, I am pretty close to only "one" to "four" possible plots:
I) Either he would give shelter to other survivors or help them with intel - and that would be just the mere repitition of what we already heard in the Angel/ Kalani encounter.
II) The next option would be to find a survivor who really deserves the title "survivor"; but has he the potential to become such a guy, and how would this serve the story? Maybe Skittles as kind of a "Ronin" or Lonesome-Ranger dude aiding the others in what ever way. Again: would WA need this? Not really, I guess ...
III) The third plot would be to find him as being a "Smart One" ... And that would - actually - give some interesting twists or irritations into the story - especially, if Skittles remembers faces from back in time like Riley or uniforms from the soldiers or Hope or CJ? That would be - actually - quite interesting to see.
IV) He is mentally ill and somehow gets to the Colony and finds shelter. As with I and II: What would be the purpose of this? Maybe that he opens the gates another time? On the other side: it could be quite a test for CJ to decide whether to let him in or not - and that maybe in the face of other Colonies and maybe even with zombs rushing in in order to take out Skittles. That would be a "nice" scene as well - not so nice for Skittles, but nice regarding character building of CJ's and others and catalyzing trouble within the Colony ...

Just a couple of thoughts after a long day at 1 am ... Sorry for heavy misspelling. I guess you are used to it ... Good night ...

Best wishes!
Liam


Or...................................

Image this......................................

Scratch has Riley cornered............ gun pointed directly at her......... she goes to pull the trigger.......... and we hear "NOOOOoooooOOooooOoo" as Skittles runs forward and tackles Scratch saving the day for everyone!!!!

[kent17]

I think Skittles is dead, I believe Kc said somewhere that in the end when we have the answers we wont have all of the answers, and I believe his example was if a character runs off and dies and no one is around, that character doesn't make a noise..
or did I just make all of that up?

[Gnex]

I think Skittles is dead, I believe Kc said somewhere that in the end when we have the answers we wont have all of the answers, and I believe his example was if a character runs off and dies and no one is around, that character doesn't make a noise..
or did I just make all of that up?

You just made all that up..... :D

Actually I'm not sure if this was ever said or not...... but...... if a character runs off and dies and no one is around......... how do you know the character ran off and died???


By that logic if we assume Skittles ran off and died..... can we not also assume that Scratch ran off and died??? Tardust also??? Heck Burt and Riley for that matter????

I think for consistancy sake we must assume that all characters are still alive until we find a body or evidence that they are not........

I'm mean after all........ It's called We're Alive right?!?!? :omgomg: