Chapter 40-3 Monsters

[LiamKerrington]

And she didn't say 'Hey everyone follow me! I have another stash of weapons besides the armory! Lets fight these things together' ? I don't buy it

Try to speak some sense into a group of panicking people ... Either CJ tried it but didn't tell anyone, or she simply realized that this was pointless. In that particular moment, when Dunbar was overrun, one of the simples rules of survival applied: "Everyone was on his slash her own ..."

[7oddisdead]

good gravy! page 54!


i have not honestly looked through this since page 40 probly, but has anyone brought up the idea of "Austin" guy being skittles?

could be quite a twist, if your feeling twisty(and i KNOW ya'll are feeling twisty )

[Unit]

I don't think she did. She tells us that the stash was hidden and nobody knew about it. And she tells us that purposefully set it up so that while everyone else was going up she would go down. Again, this was planned, deliberate, premeditated CJ. She set up a solo contingency and purposefully didn't tell anyone about it. This is the same as the Burt comparison. There is a difference between being in the heat of the moment and everyone is panicking and so it is too late to speak sense or logic into people. It is a very different thing to have a premeditated plan of self defense and not share that plan with anyone. These are the things that make CJ who she is... Everyone may be on his/her own once the crap hits the fan and zombies are everywhere, CJ plans to be on her own well in advance and stacks the deck in her favor, everyone else be damned.

Isn't this the same thing Bill did by stealing ammo and food and stashing it for himself? Only difference between CJ and Bill is when it came to the end, like Michael says, Bill was there standing with everyone else and ultimately gave his life for the group. It is these minor differences why CJ is so disliked.

[LiamKerrington]

I don't think she did. She tells us that the stash was hidden and nobody knew about it. And she tells us that purposefully set it up so that while everyone else was going up she would go down. Again, this was planned, deliberate, premeditated CJ. She set up a solo contingency and purposefully didn't tell anyone about it. This is the same as the Burt comparison. There is a difference between being in the heat of the moment and everyone is panicking and so it is too late to speak sense or logic into people. It is a very different thing to have a premeditated plan of self defense and not share that plan with anyone. These are the things that make CJ who she is... Everyone may be on his/her own once the crap hits the fan and zombies are everywhere, CJ plans to be on her own well in advance and stacks the deck in her favor, everyone else be damned.

Isn't this the same thing Bill did by stealing ammo and food and stashing it for himself? Only difference between CJ and Bill is when it came to the end, like Michael says, Bill was there standing with everyone else and ultimately gave his life for the group. It is these minor differences why CJ is so disliked.

Still in doubt.
Ok, the others didn't know ab the secret stash of weapons. Maybe, if not probably, because CJ already had trouble with enough people leaving Dunbar and diminishing assets and ressources; so she kept a stash of weapons "just in case".
Then, when Dunbar was overrun, it was not the case that everyone was at the same location within Dunbar; people were scattered around. CJ or anyone else simply did not have the opportunity to gather a proper group of survivors in order to organize a counter-attack.
Ok, she might have been able to ask at least two or three guys she may have seen during her run to the stash. But then again: When the Dunbarians were scattered all over the place, and a constant stream of zombs washes through the place it is very likely that most people simply panicked or was in a near-panick mental state. And that, actually, includes CJ. She sees her place falling apart; surprised as anyone else and as she was, she simply "fled" to the place with all the guns she hid; she knew that there she could desperately defend herself. I don't think she really expected to survive - even with all the ungs available. I remember her describing the situation that after them zombs let her alone she waited for a couple of hours until she started to explore fallen Dunbar again.

No, I don't think she planned it all. I think the whole situation was circumstantial.

I understand CJ as a very pragmatic personality, which denies dignity in the human being; she simply treats people according to their skills and usage. And there really is nothing good about this attitude - especially if it comes to the single purpose that them folks are there to create and build a fortress which might be able to safe CJ's butt. But although she treats people like animals or robots/ economic units, she does not plan anything against them. Because as much as she exploits people she also needs them. There would be no reason for her to create schemes in which she feeds them to zombs. That's not CJ - especially considering the unreliability of zombie-behavior.

Best wishes!
Liam

[Grognaurd]

good gravy! page 54!


i have not honestly looked through this since page 40 probly, but has anyone brought up the idea of "Austin" guy being skittles?

could be quite a twist, if your feeling twisty(and i KNOW ya'll are feeling twisty )

Yup, brought it up. Pros and Cons. With the tangential Concept that he does not respond to "Duncan" when CJ calls him after Dunbar is attacked. It is a lot easier to forget an assumed identity than it is to lose the true self

[Grognaurd]

CJ is all about CJ. She is also a pretty good planner for a single contingency. Stop the zombies from getting in Dunbar, but no plan for what happens if she is wrong and they get in to the building.

I want defense in depth. I want multiple hardened doors and fallback positions. I want guns as common as fire extinguishers in the halls. I want to train people like fire drills, but instead of running out of the building, they defend and slowly pull back.

[Tar Heel Fan]

Still in doubt.
Ok, the others didn't know ab the secret stash of weapons. Maybe, if not probably, because CJ already had trouble with enough people leaving Dunbar and diminishing assets and ressources; so she kept a stash of weapons "just in case".
Then, when Dunbar was overrun, it was not the case that everyone was at the same location within Dunbar; people were scattered around. CJ or anyone else simply did not have the opportunity to gather a proper group of survivors in order to organize a counter-attack.
Ok, she might have been able to ask at least two or three guys she may have seen during her run to the stash. But then again: When the Dunbarians were scattered all over the place, and a constant stream of zombs washes through the place it is very likely that most people simply panicked or was in a near-panick mental state. And that, actually, includes CJ. She sees her place falling apart; surprised as anyone else and as she was, she simply "fled" to the place with all the guns she hid; she knew that there she could desperately defend herself. I don't think she really expected to survive - even with all the ungs available. I remember her describing the situation that after them zombs let her alone she waited for a couple of hours until she started to explore fallen Dunbar again.

No, I don't think she planned it all. I think the whole situation was circumstantial.

I understand CJ as a very pragmatic personality, which denies dignity in the human being; she simply treats people according to their skills and usage. And there really is nothing good about this attitude - especially if it comes to the single purpose that them folks are there to create and build a fortress which might be able to safe CJ's butt. But although she treats people like animals or robots/ economic units, she does not plan anything against them. Because as much as she exploits people she also needs them. There would be no reason for her to create schemes in which she feeds them to zombs. That's not CJ - especially considering the unreliability of zombie-behavior.

Best wishes!
Liam

I'm with Liam on this one. Back at Dunbar, when it was overrun, CJ was making a social, Blazing Saddles-type, last stand. She didn't drag anyone else down her rabbit hole with her. I don't think she intended to survive it, but she wanted to take down whoever she could with her. Had Ink / Bill Roberts not intervened, odds are quite likely she would have been overrun.
Goes to show Ink's cruelty: he left her for living when she wanted to be left for dead. And she was pretty much a non-person, living with her guilt, until Saul and Victor ragged her back into living. At that point, she put her mask back on.

[Unit]

No, I don't think she planned it all. I think the whole situation was circumstantial.

I understand CJ as a very pragmatic personality, which denies dignity in the human being; she simply treats people according to their skills and usage. And there really is nothing good about this attitude - especially if it comes to the single purpose that them folks are there to create and build a fortress which might be able to safe CJ's butt. But although she treats people like animals or robots/ economic units, she does not plan anything against them. Because as much as she exploits people she also needs them. There would be no reason for her to create schemes in which she feeds them to zombs. That's not CJ - especially considering the unreliability of zombie-behavior.

Best wishes!
Liam

i agree I don't think she was trying to turn people into zombie food and I don't think she was scheming to kill them. I do think she had her weapons stash as a backup plan for herself. For those that have seen the new Dark Knight Batman series, it is like Batman days to Raz, I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you either.

[Unit]

I'm with Liam on this one. Back at Dunbar, when it was overrun, CJ was making a social, Blazing Saddles-type, last stand. She didn't drag anyone else down her rabbit hole with her. I don't think she intended to survive it, but she wanted to take down whoever she could with her. Had Ink / Bill Roberts not intervened, odds are quite likely she would have been overrun.
Goes to show Ink's cruelty: he left her for living when she wanted to be left for dead. And she was pretty much a non-person, living with her guilt, until Saul and Victor ragged her back into living. At that point, she put her mask back on.

I don't think she wanted to be left for dead and I think she fully intended to survive. She positioned herself at the end of a hallway so there was only one way to get to her and that was through a hail of her bullets. She also yells you are not getting me! while shooting down some zeds. That does not sound like the words of someone who has accepted their inevitable death.

And I don't get the non-person living with her guilt statement. She seemed to be doing just fine, if not a little lonely, but still living rather well when she finds Saul and Vivtor.

[Unit]

Skittles seems to be the almost non-human living with guilt about what happened.