Fox News vs. mental stability

[Osiris]

which is the exact same thing you are doing. you say that i'm forcing my view onto you, but that's exactly what you're doing by denying me my rights. how can you not see that? you say no one should have a gun, and that arguing against you is forcing you to conform to my way of thinking, but you are doing the same thing. as far as facts, do a little studying yourself, look at the statistics, honest and unbiased, and if you still say there's no correlation, then i say you are dilluded.

Speculative. Show me definitive proof. There isn't any. I can show you examples of people who followed the system to the letter only to commit crimes later on. Please tell me that those stories are made up by the media who are in favour of gun control to sway public opinion. Please tell me that they are lies. Who is deluded here? I'm standing on 2000 years of human history, what are you standing on?

you can say that, but the fact is that most people do not commit crimes. how can i say that? because there aren't daily bloodbaths with people killing each other over the same few dollars they stole from that schmuck under all the other bodies. and sure, we're safe from guns, until a criminal shows up with a gun and then, OH! neither one of us has a gun to defend from that guy! you cannot control criminals, that's why there's a booming drug trade (in case you were wondering). owning property (ie a gun) does not violate anyones right. misuse of that property may constitute a violation of a third parties rights, but taking that property away from the rightful owner is definitely a violation. you cannot preserve rights by violating rights, that's like saying to get out of debt you have to spend more money, or to lose weight, eat more cake. it doesn't work, it's a fundamental truth. if you are going to make arguments like that, you clearly don't have a solid understanding of the concept of "rights," so it wouldn't make any sense for me to continue debating this with you as we have two diametricly opposed points of reference.

Again, a distortion of the language and numbers to suit the argument. Who said that guns bring daily blood baths? Nobody. You're putting words in my mouth to suit your argument. As far as "can't violate rights to preserve them" this is entirely true. You're not preserving my rights by violating them. Remember you said that when you hide behind that argument, because it no longer holds weight for your cause. You can't rail against what you're trying so desperately to hold dear. That's just futile. As far as my understanding of "rights" trying to argue that violating my rights is your own right, shows that you don't have an understanding of the principle, proof of which being you've failed to understand the question put forth. It's a question you haven't answered yet: What gives you the right to determine where my rights end, and what gives your rights precedence over my own?

So answer it.

Further, saying the drug trade is booming because of an inability to control criminals is akin to saying that freedom to carry a gun wherever you like lowers crime rates across the board. There's no evidence that supports this. There isn't. If there was you would have shown me already, ending the argument. You can't. Neither can anyone else who stands on your side of the table. Arguing about taking away property with the examples you cited shows me that you're not understanding the language I'm using. So let me put it to you this way:

Are you against smoking in public? It's a matter of property. The cigarettes are my property, I've a right to do with them as I please.
What about drugs? I have a right to do with my drugs as I please, so is it ok for me to shoot up in public, or to give those drugs to someone else? Perhaps outside of a school yard? It's a matter of property by your definition of the law.
How about nudity? My body is my property, are you going to refuse my right to do with my property as I see fit? Even if what I see fit is to walk naked into your business?

The law you're arguing is purposely ambiguous.

Continue your ravings, I'm finished.