Chapter 19-2 Discussion

[Hollomandious]

That's a good point.

I'm still betting the Little Ones are chimps.

I'm really looking for them to be a pack of kids. The insanity and mental anguish it would bestow on someone having to mow down a pack of zombie kids. Geesh.

[Ra1th]

that was an intense episode, i'm really looking forward to getting back to the tower just cause the colony is such a dangerous setting, like anything you do can be used against you. If i had to call it, i'd say chapter 19-3 might be focusing on the colony as well, just because there is a lot of storyline that needs to be advanced to bring it up to speed. But what i really miss more than anything is the zombies, i cant wait to see some zombie killing action. I'd really like to see Angel and Kalani get back to the tower and just have them chill for a bit, maybe have angel get stitched up by riley, and she comes out of the closet after he makes a move on her, the tower just seems so nice and safe compared to the colony.

Also, I'd just like to call it now, that the yacht that M/P/K ran into earlier, is going to have a role to play in communicating with the tower. I'm not sure how, but i'm dead certain its radio will come into play when reaching out to burt and the tower.

I only got a chance to listen to it once, so i couldnt really make out whose voice it was that got a hold of pegs, was it the gatekeeper, marcus, or shovelface?

also Marcus doesn't seem like such a bad guy anymore. He just seems like a dude trying to keep people from going nuts and getting everyone killed. And in the process he got sidetracked and ended up running the place via slavelabor. I cant wait for this guy to go up against Durai, that'll be entertaining.

other than that there wasnt that much to discuss in this episode really, it's more just advancing the story at as a fast a pace as possible it seems

[Adventureless_Hero]

I do think that we should have a bit of discussion about the fact that no one at the tower answered Michael's call. It's really got me worried. My fingers were literally crossed as I listened, and upon hearing no response a lump of worry formed in my throat. Saul is my favorite character, and if the tower were to fall under attack with him in his current condition, I don't see much hope for his survival.

Marcus showed that there are a few outposts scattered around the Colony. The sense of just how huge and put together this place is tells me that an assault could be disastrous. I think the best solution is for Michael to overthrow Marcus. It is unfortunate that his current situation prevents him from swaying the people, but how knows? Maybe if they hold a public execution or lashing, Michael will get his forum for overthrowing Marcus. I can see the Colony, under Michael's leadership, being a replacement for the tower.

I do believe the fact that dogs do not get infected means that this could have been a biological weapon designed by man to specifically target humankind. Maybe it was terrorists, or religious extremists, but I don't think the outbreak was accidental, simply because it seemed to occur simultaneously here in the states and over in Hawaii.

Crap, I wonder what will happen if the Tower tries to respond to Michaels call now? Will one of the outposts pick up? Hopefully not. I'd prefer that kind old man in charge of all the electrical shtuff answers. He seems reasonable.

[ShadowXOR]

This episode was insane.

[Ra1th]

I do think that we should have a bit of discussion about the fact that no one at the tower answered Michael's call. It's really got me worried. My fingers were literally crossed as I listened, and upon hearing no response a lump of worry formed in my throat. Saul is my favorite character, and if the tower were to fall under attack with him in his current condition, I don't see much hope for his survival.

They are just too far away for something like that to work. cb radios don't have that kind of range, like 15 miles max. I can tell you right now, the distance between LA and Santa ana, is a LOT farther, it's a good two hours travel time between the two cities. Even at the very beginning, when victor proposed the idea, michael said, it's prly not gonna work, just because of the range issue, they never had a shot, it was just a blind attempt to make contact. Also i will bet you anything that if anything kills saul, it will NOT be this illness. think about it, why the hell would you drag out his suffering for 7 chapters, THEN have the MPK group actually FIND a cure for saul, and THEN have him die, that's ridiculous and by all means terrible story telling, i'm not saying he wont die, but it sure as hell wont be because of the sickness.

Marcus showed that there are a few outposts scattered around the Colony. The sense of just how huge and put together this place is tells me that an assault could be disastrous. I think the best solution is for Michael to overthrow Marcus. It is unfortunate that his current situation prevents him from swaying the people, but how knows? Maybe if they hold a public execution or lashing, Michael will get his forum for overthrowing Marcus. I can see the Colony, under Michael's leadership, being a replacement for the tower.

yes we know the colony is massive, that's exactly why an assault led by the colony alone would be a disaster, and that's where the mallers come into play. And i don't think Michael will be able to sway the people just because he got lashes or because of a public execution, and here's why, NO ONE KNOWS HIM, he's just some dude, that was rumored to be marcus's second in command, and that's prly not gonna happen anymore. He's only been in the colony (awake and running anyway) for a day or two, he spent the other week or so in a mini coma, we the audience know he's a big deal, but as far as the colony residents are concerned michael doesnt matter.

[Adventureless_Hero]

They are just too far away for something like that to work. cb radios don't have that kind of range, like 15 miles max. I can tell you right now, the distance between LA and Santa ana, is a LOT farther, it's a good two hours travel time between the two cities. Even at the very beginning, when victor proposed the idea, michael said, it's prly not gonna work, just because of the range issue, they never had a shot, it was just a blind attempt to make contact. Also i will bet you anything that if anything kills saul, it will NOT be this illness. think about it, why the hell would you drag out his suffering for 7 chapters, THEN have the MPK group actually FIND a cure for saul, and THEN have him die, that's ridiculous and by all means terrible story telling, i'm not saying he wont die, but it sure as hell wont be because of the sickness.

I disagree. It would give a huge feeling of hopelessness, to almost save Saul only to have Fate snatch him away from you. If he died the moment a reader felt his safety was inches away it would really draw them in emotionally. Think of Samantha. Datu gave her hope, he gave me hope, that they would survive. And just when thier escape seemed possible, there came a knock at the door; it was destiny, dressed like a flesh-biter.

As for the CB being out of range...maybe. I do know that it depends on weather conditions. Remember little Jodie Foster in Contact used her CB radio to get in touch with folks across the state? lol :P

yes we know the colony is massive, that's exactly why an assault led by the colony alone would be a disaster, and that's where the mallers come into play. And i don't think Michael will be able to sway the people just because he got lashes or because of a public execution, and here's why, NO ONE KNOWS HIM, he's just some dude, that was rumored to be marcus's second in command, and that's prly not gonna happen anymore. He's only been in the colony (awake and running anyway) for a day or two, he spent the other week or so in a mini coma, we the audience know he's a big deal, but as far as the colony residents are concerned michael doesnt matter.

Nah, I don't see the Tower survivors fighting along side the Mallers. Thier alliance seems unbelievable to me. Sure Peggs made an attempt to reconcile with Scratch, but I don't see either parties wanting an alliance. The Mallers may come to the Tower with the guise of forming a team, but they would want nothing more than to scavenge what little the Tower has. The Tower survivors wouldn't be so stupid, especially with a proud, tough fellow like Burt in charge. No, I think Michael, Peggs, and Kelly are going to have to seek the help of friends they make inside the colony, or escape on thier own. But who knows? If I'm wrong and your predictions are right, you have my permission to say "I told you so."

I do agree that Michael hasn't been there long enough to stir up an instant revolution against Marcus, but I do feel that should he be punished publicly, he has an opportunity to deliver a speech, show the colony that he's a brave man with a mind for all the community's benefit. Hell, if Marcus can turn them into zombies (mentally) then I'm certain Michael can plant seeds in the minds of a few of them that will lead to small group of revolutionaries. It's an easy thing to do when the majority is unhappy. It seems like the one's in power in the Colony are the minority. They may have the guns, but not the people's hearts. History shows that ruling with fear and strength over your own people leads to a short lived government.

[Ra1th]

I disagree. It would give a huge feeling of hopelessness, to almost save Saul only to have Fate snatch him away from you. If he died the moment a reader felt his safety was inches away it would really draw them in emotionally. Think of Samantha. Datu gave her hope, he gave me hope, that they would survive. And just when thier escape seemed possible, there came a knock at the door; it was destiny, dressed like a flesh-biter.
As for the CB being out of range...maybe. I do know that it depends on weather conditions. Remember little Jodie Foster in Contact used her CB radio to get in touch with folks across the state? lol :P

It’s possible that that could happen to saul, but right now, saul is the favorite character for the majority of the listeners, it’s generally a bad idea to kill off the fan favorite. And yeah there could be an emotional effect, and all, but we haven’t seen saul suffering at all. We know he’s lying on a bed sick as hell, but that’s it, we haven’t focused on saul in like 3 or 4 chapters. Datu gave Samantha immediate hope, and then she immediately died, we focused on her for about a chapter, and we focused on her almost the whole time during that chapter. The entirety of season 2 has revolved around finding help for saul, and a lot of time has been spent not paying attention to saul, maybe he’ll die, but this isn’t the way the story would be structured if you wanted the maximum emotional effect for saul’s death.

And as for cb radios in movies, movies are not all that accurate, of course you could say we're alive doesn’t have to be accurate, but for the most part kc always pays attention to small details like this.

I do agree that Michael hasn't been there long enough to stir up an instant revolution against Marcus, but I do feel that should he be punished publicly, he has an opportunity to deliver a speech, show the colony that he's a brave man with a mind for all the community's benefit. Hell, if Marcus can turn them into zombies (mentally) then I'm certain Michael can plant seeds in the minds of a few of them that will lead to small group of revolutionaries. It's an easy thing to do when the majority is unhappy. It seems like the one's in power in the Colony are the minority. They may have the guns, but not the people's hearts. History shows that ruling with fear and strength over your own people leads to a short lived government.

Well i'd like to point out, that a small group of well equipped guardians with assault rifles, could easily take down large numbers of angry unarmed colony members. Marcus seems like a fairly clever guy, he's probably prepared for situations where there is a small revolution, if there's anything close to a 1-5 ratio of guardians to citizens, then the rebels wouldn’t stand a chance. even if Michael was able to stir up enough people to rebel, (there are some issues with this, first of all not everyone would be physically capable of fighting, and there are sure to be a good number of Marcus loyalists, and Michael doesn’t know that many people, so let’s say he has a small band of freedom fighters as you stated above.) there could be a civil war between a small group of unarmed rebels against the armed Marcus supporters, it would be a slaughter, after the guardians open fire on the rebels, the “willpower� for rebellion will die away, because it’s just not worth dying over. This is often the case historically where many a rebellion has been trumped with bloody conflict and the dictator lives on. And you can say that ruling with fear and strength leads to a short lived government, but those people did not have zombies outside your door just waiting for you to slip up so they can eat you, and everyone you care about. Maslows hierarchy of needs, When you are starving, you will risk safety for food, when you are in danger, you will accept a dictator as your government because the alternative is death. Revolution alone will not bring down Marcus and his government.

Also think about the story, we are now at chapter 20, the season finale is at chapter 24, we have spent the last 4 chapters going on about the colony, the season finale fast approaches, and all the elements are going to have to come together. All the elements introduced earlier in the season have to play a role in the finale, including the peace offering of Latch’s body to the mallers, the colony, saul’s illness, the tower group needing a new place to live, the little ones, etc. there simply isn’t enough time for all of these to have their own individual story blocks. There is only one solution, and that’s one giant bash where everything comes together.

Nah, I don't see the Tower survivors fighting along side the Mallers. Thier alliance seems unbelievable to me. Sure Peggs made an attempt to reconcile with Scratch, but I don't see either parties wanting an alliance. The Mallers may come to the Tower with the guise of forming a team, but they would want nothing more than to scavenge what little the Tower has. The Tower survivors wouldn't be so stupid, especially with a proud, tough fellow like Burt in charge. No, I think Michael, Peggs, and Kelly are going to have to seek the help of friends they make inside the colony, or escape on thier own. But who knows? If I'm wrong and your predictions are right, you have my permission to say "I told you so."

After spending this much time introducing the colony, there’s no way that MPK will just escape and run away while the people just suffer in the colony. That’s just terrible story telling. This current colony government has to fall. And revolution alone can NOT work. Reasons being, not enough rebels, rebels are unarmed, and if they did somehow manage to pull that off, then, the entire colony storyline will have been contained in a block that did not involve any of the other elements of the we’re alive universe. That maller peace offering has a role to play in this season, and we are fast running out of time in this season, the fall of the colon will not be a contained event, when it falls, the tower will be involved, (don’t ask how, that’s too hard to guess) the mallers will have a role to play, and we are fast running out of other things that the mallers can do. I’m not saying the mallers and the tower will turn around and bffs, but the colony isn’t going to fall by revolution, alone, it has to be attacked by a human force, and the tower lacks the manpower to pull of a full frontal assault like that, do the math, the mallers are going to have a hand in this.

[OmegaBlackZero]

The CB radio at the Tower could pick up the transmission but they don't have the gear to transmit a strong signal like the Colony can. I'm not 100% sure about that, but that might be a factor.

[VeritableHero]

The CB radio at the Tower could pick up the transmission but they don't have the gear to transmit a strong signal like the Colony can. I'm not 100% sure about that, but that might be a factor.

This seems to be the most probable theory yet. I'm sure the message was received.

The real question in my mind is: was it received by the Mallers, too? They have a CB radio (even though it sounds like they were farther away than the tower) and maybe one of their patrols caught it.

Would they potentially come to the colony, seek refuge, and try to take over from the inside? A frontal assault would never work; it didn't even work for them to attack the tower. The mallers maybe had 50-70 people after the attack on the tower; they would be trying to take on a well-fortified colony with hundreds of people. However, the mallers are proven criminals. I wouldn't put it past them to attempt infiltration.

[Adogg]

The CB radio at the Tower could pick up the transmission but they don't have the gear to transmit a strong signal like the Colony can. I'm not 100% sure about that, but that might be a factor.

Nice, thought! BUT .... wouldn't the mega-station pick up their weak transmit back? I thought that was the whole point of the focused direction .... maybe I don't understand though.

Here's my current theory...

...Therefore, Pegs will have to stay but Kelly will be the one to get out with Saul's meds and alert the Tower. Only she will get back there and find an empty tower. They moved on to the Military Training Base thinking that Michael/Pegs/Kelly died (logically since Kelly will not be able to get out for sometime). Thus Kelly will now have to get to the now-relocated tower OR admit that she was the traitor and get help from the remaining Mallers.

...and the time he was unconsious only helps this theory. Burt would logically have assumed they are all dead by now.