What do you think is happening around the world in We're Alive?

[DeRose05]

I think that at Knox and Benning, the force would be overkill. These are two bases that are on high alert already, due to possible terror attacks, etc. Sure the Z's might get a few of the guys, but those places are made to be locked down and defended.

[Luna Guardian]

As someone who has been in the military (Finnish military, but military none the less) I can tell you that not only would a million+ rushing people cause an "Oh shit, oh shit, OH SHIT!" reaction in most people, it's actually difficult to kill something that's far away. A human will not die if you shoot one in the stomach or in a limb or even in the chest if you miss the heart. These zombies are more resilient than humans, so it's a safe bet that they would take a lot more damage to take down. And before you bring headshots into the discussion, do you know how hard it is to score a lethal headshot? For simplicity's sake, let's say the human brain ends around your nose. That still leaves 1/3 of your head as unnecessary. Can you hit a fast moving target running towards you, probably zig-zagging as we've seen, that's that small? Very few people can. I'm an excellent marksman and I've recevied commendations for my skill and I sure as hell wouldn't want to risk my life on a shot like that.

As you said, the soldiers are trained to kill things that are far away. However, the effective range of an assault rifle is somewhere around 150m (we use 7.62 ammo in our assault rifles, I'm not sure what the 5.56 range is) and much less if you want an accurate shot on a moving target. We've seen how fast the zombies are, but even a human, running balls-out, can cover that much ground very quickly. The reason soldiers get to shoot at their enemies is because both sides take cover and don't move closer to engage in hand to hand. Yes, full auto and machine guns will mow down the zombies, but they also waste a lot of ammo. The troops on the base aren't likely to be in full combat readiness all the time, some are having chow and some are training somewhere, therefore they aren't likely to carry their entire wartime loadout with them. But for the sake of argument, let's say they would. Even so, with full auto, an assault rifle and a machine gun empty in a matter of seconds. It takes reasonably long for a human body to fall down dead, especially since the 5.56 lacks the strength to punch someone backwards. The dying or falling zombies would shield their comrades even without any effort by the shielder or the shieldee.

And what if the attack came during the night? I don't care how tough your rangers are (and I know they eat nails and shit steel chain), they have to sleep in order to remain functional. Human beings are just built that way. The entire base would be overrun and chaotic very quickly with every human bitten becoming another zombie. That's one of the greatest strengths of the undead, they make themselves stronger by making us weaker.

Just my two cents. I'm not trying to talk smack about the US army or any other, but facts are facts and they have to be faced

[shananala8]

And to add to that, they're not going to instantly know that they're under attack by a zombie horde. Just like in the news reports, they'll assume that it's a riot or something else that doesn't require their full power. By the time there are zombies within the perimeter, it's likely to be too late.

[DeRose05]

well technically, humans CAN do what you have listed (maybe not the swimming for days/months underwater lol).
Usain bolt's fastest is around 27 mph/44kmh. Sports science says that with current info, human might hit the physical max of around 35-40mph in the future. There are also suggestion that speed is simply limited by how hard the runner can strike a running surface(extra zombie strength).
That in turn could increase how far/high a person can jump. So i guess i could say, from at least a physical standpoint, that it is possible for the runners and jumpers (maybe one in the same) to do what you listed. Cold and heat are a different thing though.
At around 1400 F(sustained), a human body will ignite. A campfire can do that. This would be considered hard, compared to flesh freezing. The human body is mostly water. The problem with that, is anything around freezing point, will turn solid. Im sure most of you have put meat in a freezer and at some point found it at a later date. Thats what would happen to flesh. I could be a bit more graphic, but freezing would/should be a big problem for the zombies...unless a bunch of the smart ones decide to take up making tacky Christmas sweaters for them to wear in the cold.
GRANTED this is not real life (i hope) lol

All of that being said, i really think that places like Canada, Alaska, Russia, Scandinavia, other rather cold places; would at least have some sort of chance to get organized with proper offensive and defensive plans while the Z's are frozen. (perhaps defrost when its warmer.)

ALSO, who isnt down for a bunch of Canadians with maple syrup and skis, blowing holes into the Z's. Im sure they would be very polite about it and give the Z's a proper warning. (the movie Canadian Bacon anyone? hehe)

[DeRose05]

the last two posters make valid points, but look at an aerial/geography of both fort knox and Benning. Here are a few facts to support my case. I'll start with Fort knox

This is a fort made to store and protect most of Americas gold. It has 20+inch reinforced blast doors and walls with a closed air/water lines. On top of that, there are the troops i stated before with armored combat military vehicles, tanks, and many artillery pieces. If you google search the image of this area, you can also see that the place already has a clear line of sight to a tree line and can be defended with relative safety, around the entire "vault"(small bunkers line the walls). I should have also stated earlier that the biggest weapon these places would have is the artillery and helicopters. I agree 100 percent when you say that shooting someone would not cut it. One last thing, it is heavy suggested that the open field around the base is heavily mined, has automated machine guns triggered by interrupting laser beams are emplaced to guard the building and its approaches, as well as ground sweeping radar, and body capacitance wires.

As for Fort Benning, The closest city is Columbus, Georgia and that city is basically nothing but the families of those at Fort Benning. From there, it is miles from the closest big cities. The zombies would have to know where the base is, (sure that could happen) but unless this all started there, it would take some time for the Zs to get in the area. By that time, i think a place with around 200k people, mostly military, could setup at least some sort of defense. Like ft. knox, the place has tons of mech vehicles, artillery, etc. This place is also self sustaining and has several natural features that could help defend the area.

So to sort of sum that all up, ft. knox is set to defend against anything that should not be there(no matter who it is), with tanks, artillery, aircraft, helicopters. Ft. Benning is far away from major cities, has over 130k active duty military there, with MORE firepower then ft. knox.

I also think everyone should go and listen to the parts about the prison and the colony. The Prison is close to a densely populated area and the colony is based around a park. These are both places in the Metro area of Greater LA, with a population of close to 18 million people. Louisville, KY (closest to Fort Knox) has 1.3 million people and Columbus, Georgia (the city made because of Ft. Benning) has a bit under 200k people. I think these are numbers that can be defended against and maybe even repulsed.

Please comment with any holes im sure i included in this small wall of text lol

[kafu288]

Speed is based on stride length and push down/off from the surface. If you can push down harder you will move faster. If your strides are longer you will move faster.

Oh wow... that's a hilariously scary visual. 5 zombies doing the stretch-armed shuffle down the road in christmas jumpers chasing me.

[HaveCrowBarWillTravel]

As someone who has been in the military (Finnish military, but military none the less) I can tell you that not only would a million+ rushing people cause an "Oh shit, oh shit, OH SHIT!" reaction in most people, it's actually difficult to kill something that's far away. A human will not die if you shoot one in the stomach or in a limb or even in the chest if you miss the heart. These zombies are more resilient than humans, so it's a safe bet that they would take a lot more damage to take down. And before you bring headshots into the discussion, do you know how hard it is to score a lethal headshot? For simplicity's sake, let's say the human brain ends around your nose. That still leaves 1/3 of your head as unnecessary. Can you hit a fast moving target running towards you, probably zig-zagging as we've seen, that's that small? Very few people can. I'm an excellent marksman and I've recevied commendations for my skill and I sure as hell wouldn't want to risk my life on a shot like that.

As you said, the soldiers are trained to kill things that are far away. However, the effective range of an assault rifle is somewhere around 150m (we use 7.62 ammo in our assault rifles, I'm not sure what the 5.56 range is) and much less if you want an accurate shot on a moving target. We've seen how fast the zombies are, but even a human, running balls-out, can cover that much ground very quickly. The reason soldiers get to shoot at their enemies is because both sides take cover and don't move closer to engage in hand to hand. Yes, full auto and machine guns will mow down the zombies, but they also waste a lot of ammo. The troops on the base aren't likely to be in full combat readiness all the time, some are having chow and some are training somewhere, therefore they aren't likely to carry their entire wartime loadout with them. But for the sake of argument, let's say they would. Even so, with full auto, an assault rifle and a machine gun empty in a matter of seconds. It takes reasonably long for a human body to fall down dead, especially since the 5.56 lacks the strength to punch someone backwards. The dying or falling zombies would shield their comrades even without any effort by the shielder or the shieldee.

And what if the attack came during the night? I don't care how tough your rangers are (and I know they eat nails and shit steel chain), they have to sleep in order to remain functional. Human beings are just built that way. The entire base would be overrun and chaotic very quickly with every human bitten becoming another zombie. That's one of the greatest strengths of the undead, they make themselves stronger by making us weaker.

Just my two cents. I'm not trying to talk smack about the US army or any other, but facts are facts and they have to be faced

Wow.. Ok, Hey Luna.. the Max effective range on an M16 (5.56 ball point NATO round)is 550 meters for a point target. 800 for an area target. Max range is 3600 meters.


You guys are focused on just ARMY installations and your forget there are other branches of services. USAF, USM, USCG, USN and all the various National Guard and Reserve installations.
Every installation has family that live on them... they have shooping centers (Commissary/BX) movie theatres, bowling allys..blah, blah,..
The only people armed on any installation are the MPs (Army/Marines) and SFS (USAF security forces). They work on shifts. I can only speak on the USAF side because I spent 4 years in the SFS guarding Nukes and standing under the wings of classified planes. So, at anytime in a shift you may have 17 armed people. It depends on the size of the installation.
You'll have armed guards (Civ now) at each gate and they only carry 9mil hand guns with max 36 rounds and 2 guards per post.

Those troops who aren't on duty are at home with family or on leave.. whatever. The first sign of trouble, they do a telephone recall (just like KC wrote in the first episode). You have a recall roster and it tells you who you're supposed to call after you get your call. It goes down the line untel 100 % accountability is reached for flight/battalion or unit.

You'd never reach 100% if the base is under this kind of attack. Troops families would be effected or the troops themselves.
Again, these are only those assigned to carry weapons during peace time. Cops and guards only. You arm up, get briefed on the situation and do whatever the "On Scene" Commander needs until the Commander Center stands up and you go into "Mass Casualty mode" That means that the entire MP/SFS unit would be recalled to arm up.

Special Forces troops would have the same issues. They have to get to base first and if they are on base.. they aren't armed.
Pilots, Tank drivers, etc... all the same issues.

Think about the recent shootings on the army installations... We go day to day just like you guys do, but we're just in uniform. We drop our kids off at daycare and go to work.

- Everyone else would have to fend for themselves until they got to a secured location. Spouses, Kids, Civilians....

How many troops would actually report if they had family turning? How many would make it to base if they lived OFF the installation?
There are no private firearms allowed in base housing. You have to keep your weapons in the base armory.
My installation doesn't even have long weapons. We have civilian guards and they aren't in the building proper because of clearance levels. So, if someone turned in the building.. all hell would break loose and you'd have chaos in the hallways. The only survivors would be people who didn't open the doors from the inside. (They can't be opened from the outside by just turning a knob)

I digress....
The military wouldn't enter any civilian areas until each base/post was secured first and only when/if Congress lifted Posse Comitatus Act.

The National Guard and Coast Guard are the only forces that have the ability to act on civilian soil. Again, those troops have to be recalled from HOME in order to get armed up.

[Luna Guardian]

Wow.. Ok, Hey Luna.. the Max effective range on an M16 (5.56 ball point NATO round)is 550 meters for a point target. 800 for an area target. Max range is 3600 meters.

I may have been a bit unclear. Certainly, the maximum range for an assault rifle is much longer than the 150m I stated. However, your chances of hitting something past that are minimal without added optics. The accuracy of the shot is certainly different for the 7.62 and the 5.56 as well, because the 5.56 is so much lighter (the 7.62 is more effective in woodlands combat however due to its mass, but let's not get into that here and derail the entire topic).

Also, let us assume that Knox got the alarm early enough and managed to get all suited and booted, locked and loaded (maybe the fort commander acted on his own, maybe he got authorization, just roll with it for a while). How long could Knox hold out? I'm willing to bet that within two weeks without supply runs they'd be starving, even with rationing. What about water? Medicine? The soldiers may be able to fight off the zombies that come there if they come in small enough groups, but remember that our zombies here on We're Alive bite into cans and eat everything, including dogfood. Supplies are running out, fast, and the defenders of Fort Knox would either have to leave the fort or die of starvation, thirst or sickness.

Unless the military installation is truly and completely self sufficient with enough power (solar, wind, etc) food (crops, livestock) and water (groundwells etc.), there's no way they could survive. As Crowbar said, if the zombies'd be running amok here, I would get The Call to report to my unit for certain. I'd say "Fuck you, sir", hang up and continue on with my Z-Day Plan. Fuck if I'm going to get myself killed in a Little Big Horn of our time for some people who in all likelyhood have no idea what's going on. I'd protect my family and friends, that's where I'm most needed (and consequentially, whom I most care about)

[Luna Guardian]

well technically, humans CAN do what you have listed (maybe not the swimming for days/months underwater lol).
Usain bolt's fastest is around 27 mph/44kmh. Sports science says that with current info, human might hit the physical max of around 35-40mph in the future. There are also suggestion that speed is simply limited by how hard the runner can strike a running surface(extra zombie strength).
That in turn could increase how far/high a person can jump. So i guess i could say, from at least a physical standpoint, that it is possible for the runners and jumpers (maybe one in the same) to do what you listed. Cold and heat are a different thing though.

Another thing the zombies have over us is that in most cases of physical exertion, your mind or spirit gives out way before your body does. I'm going to assume zombies don't have this issue, therefore they can push themselves to the absolute limit of their inhuman limits.

[DeRose05]

hmm well i dont know how long ft. knox could survive, long term, but they do have private closed, air,power,and water lines. I think that it is also possible that they would be able to use the many large farms not far away. Sure they would have to travel in the combat vehicles (tanks, bradleys, buffaloes, etc) or the several helicopters to get the stuff, but it would not be that difficult. As for the medical side, there is a base hospital that is connected to the "less" secure parts of the fort, underground. Fort Benning is also completely self sufficient. Thats why i suggested that these bases would at least last stand for some measurable time. Oh and both of the bases have at least 3 months worth of fuel and are in range many refueling bases that are literally in the middle of no where. with no towns or really any people for miles and miles.

I think it would be very likely that if there is any sort of organized military force(land based), this is where it would come from. I also think it is likely that the men/women in charge would also want to hook up with other military units. Maybe we will see some when Michael and friend visit Ft. irwin. It might not be as big as the other forts, but it about 30 something miles away from Barstow, California and kinda close to 29 Palms (the marine corps ground and air combat training center. The big problem i see is getting water and food there.

Good debate going on here! i hope some of this gets added to the story. Maybe a few officers in charge, will be named after us. lol one can dream.